It didn’t have anything to do with how mainstream the processor was. It’s basically the same situation now as it was then. Apple needs high performing low power mobile processors. Back then the PowerPC group couldn’t do it, and today Intel can’t do it.
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MP 7,1 What does Apple's switch to ARM based processors mean for the future of the Mac Pro
- Thread starter Korican100
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Yes, but that problem was in part because the PPC architecture *wasn't* mainstream. The drivers of progress for it were IBM and Motorola, and they were all about high-performance server processors, and had zero incentive besides Apple to do anything in the low-power space. Intel was dominating there. The larger market for Apple was looking for computers that Apple couldn't make with the PPC.
Today it's not quite the same--there are a ton of options from Intel in this space. It's not that they aren't adequate. It's not that most people are out there yelling for a higher-performance processor in their laptops; most people barely use the power that's available. Instead it's about higher profits for Apple and systems that are more power-efficient. It's about Apple being able to build ultra thin laptops. It's about crazy long battery life.
The situation is similar only on the surface, the driving factors are totally different and this time around Apple is holding an excellent hand, rather than trying to play catch-up like they were before.
Are they adequate now? Sure. But they were inadequate for such a large number of years that it just doesn’t make sense for Apple to continue to tie their fortunes to Intel. Apple currently ships the Air, Pro 13 and Pro 16 laptops. Three main form factors. Which means the types of processors they will use are limited to just a tiny number of Intel’s “ton of options”. If, as has happened in the past, Intel is unable to provide one of those options, then Apple’s unable to ship.
That would be AWESOME! I am sure something like that would have leaked by now though.
What color is the sky in your world?
10 - 15% improvement every generation (15 month cadence) is massive.
Zen 3 releases by year's end. Zen 4 is approaching tape out (if it isn't there already). The Zen 3 team will start design on Zen 5 (4 way SMT anyone?) once Zen 3 is released.
Am I the only one who decided on investing in a Mac Pro now after the ARM announcement? Yes, the machine I will have purchased will be obsolete, but unless I am purchasing another Mac Pro with ARM again then I will have better upgradability for the Intel Xeon chips myself to give it a longer lifespan. With the current model you can buy an off the shelf faster processor and upgrade it yourself.
If going with an ARM processor, I can only assume that Apple will lock down any possibility of upgrading the processor at all or even being able to buy it yourself since this will now be proprietary to them.
So technically I am not stuck with the current speed of my chosen processor now versus being stuck with the ARM processor you buy.
If going with an ARM processor, I can only assume that Apple will lock down any possibility of upgrading the processor at all or even being able to buy it yourself since this will now be proprietary to them.
So technically I am not stuck with the current speed of my chosen processor now versus being stuck with the ARM processor you buy.
You do realize that the current Xeon socket is EOL. What’s available now is all that’s ever going to fit in your MP. By the time that 28 core comes down to a reasonable price...
it doesn't mean no one can make a processor to fit it. It isn't set in stone. And what if apple make their chip to fit the same socket...
Yes, it does mean that.
Everything from the physical socket design to the bus is patented by Intel. No one else is making a chip that will be physically and electrically compatible.
Given they just came out with the new cheese grater that solved problems they reluctantly admitted, I'd be very surprised if they discontinued it after ~1 year of sales. So I think it's going to stick around for a while (they sold the trashcan for 7 years without an update). Hopefully it gets frequent spec bumps like the 1,1 -> 2,1 -> 3,1 -> 4,1.
I think an ARM Mac Pro (if/when it happens) would be quite different from what we've seen before. So how upgradable will it be? By whom? If it has PCIE slots, what vendor will make cards compatible with it?
Sure, the Intel Mac Pro was locked into Intel Processors - but I know where to buy those. Where can I buy Apple's custom ARM processor? Apple won't even sell me a replacement battery for my MacBook Air (they'll install one for me if I send them my laptop, but I can't just walk into my local Apple Store and walk out with a battery to install myself).
There's a lot we don't know, but luckily we only have to wait ~24 more hours to find out.
I think an ARM Mac Pro (if/when it happens) would be quite different from what we've seen before. So how upgradable will it be? By whom? If it has PCIE slots, what vendor will make cards compatible with it?
Sure, the Intel Mac Pro was locked into Intel Processors - but I know where to buy those. Where can I buy Apple's custom ARM processor? Apple won't even sell me a replacement battery for my MacBook Air (they'll install one for me if I send them my laptop, but I can't just walk into my local Apple Store and walk out with a battery to install myself).
There's a lot we don't know, but luckily we only have to wait ~24 more hours to find out.
No product announcements doesn't mean they won't announce the switch to ARM based Macs. They didn't announce any Intel based Macs when they announced the switch to Intel. They just explained the transition and mentioned a developer machine would soon be available for purchase by registered developers but no products and they wanted those dev machines back after real Intel macs shipped to customers.
It may stick around, but the only way you will get updated software 2 years from an ARM launch will be if you install Windows 10 and go that route.
That would sadden, but not surprise me.They should just solder them to the board. There, problem solved!
The Mac Pro may be the last model updated, it may even get a minor update, but it won’t stick around long. Apple wouldn’t do this transition if they didn’t have “pro” level processors in the work.
PCIe will work just fine. Drivers may be an issue, but they are now. Apple’s iOS devices already use PCIe lanes they just don’t have PCIe slots.
Like the G5 to Mac Pro, I imagine the ARM Pro will look pretty similar and work with all the same accessories/MPX cards. If software will run on macARM, it will be a pretty seamless upgrade.
It won't be very fast transition, however.
Software houses aren't going to just drop what they are doing to port their software over to ARM. For the most part, they have multi year production cycles. The very 1st thing they will do is determine if it is actually worth their time to move the software to ARM. Is Apple going to sell enough ARM Macs to make it worth their time? I bring this up (yet again), because a lot of my PPC software didn't make the jump. It wasn't the big things (Outside of Adobe CS) - it was all of the little helper apps that made my production workflow more efficient.
Moving architectures means replacing every single piece of software on your computer. That can be expensive.
Version 1 will be ARM native, with very little, if any new features. Version 2 will be the next version with new features, which will be anywhere from 18 to 24 months after the release of Version 1. So, you would be looking at a 3 year window of nothing happening (or as we say in the Mac Pro community - 1,000 days between updates.)
ARM Mac software will come from the iOS side - fine if you are a media consumer, playing Candy Crush, or need that iFart app for your desktop. Software for folks that create will be slow in coming - if it comes at all. I am not expecting any of my mission critical software to make the jump, which is why I moved to a Win/Ryzen platform.
The main thing that has me on hold in purchasing a new Mac Pro right now is the silence on the part of Adobe to optimize their CS Apps for the current model. Unfortunately, I live in the world of Adobe with 30 years of using their apps on a daily basis with more money invested in their software, training, and plugins than in my home... not to mention the thousands of hours of my time!
What I would like to hear tomorrow is an announcement from Adobe that they intend to optimize their apps to take advantage of the Mac Pro as well as Catalina and future OS releases (even a lie at this point would be nice)! If I want a slow Mac Pro with Adobe, I already have one of those.
What I would like to hear tomorrow is an announcement from Adobe that they intend to optimize their apps to take advantage of the Mac Pro as well as Catalina and future OS releases (even a lie at this point would be nice)! If I want a slow Mac Pro with Adobe, I already have one of those.
If you're waiting for Adobe to suddenly embrace Macs and MacOS after nearly a decade of ****** performance, you'll be waiting a very, very long time. Don't hold your breath. Adobe is laser-focused on the market that brings them the lion's share of their income: PCs/Windows. They only give a slight nod to Apple now and then.
Their apps need to be re-written from the ground up with all of the old cruft in their code base just thrown away. But they'll never, ever do that.
Again: you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Either expect a slow Mac with Adobe, move to a different software set, or, move to Windows.
The only thing wrong with this logic is that their software is crap on Windows, too.