Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

goMac

macrumors 604
Apr 15, 2004
7,663
1,694
Based on that, you believe that Apple would do something different on non-iOS bound processors?

Not saying they couldn't do something different... But the details coming out about Apple's CPUs involve a lot of specialized coprocessors that are a required part of the design. A manufacturing issue in any of these parts of the CPU will trash bin the whole chip. I'm also not sure Apple is going to want to bin based on CPU and GPU defects on the same chip.

They could change things up on the larger CPUs. But I don't think they'll be as flexible for binning as Intel.
 

RyanFlynn

macrumors 6502a
Nov 24, 2006
511
466
Los Angeles
Having just spent $30k on my Mac Pro, I'm concerned about its resale value and usability. Lets say they stop supporting intel in 4 years, would you spend 30k on a car that might stop working two years and at best 4?

That being said, I do need the performance now, but I probably would have just gone with a similarly equipped PC.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: phoenix-mac-user

Quu

macrumors 68040
Apr 2, 2007
3,442
6,876
Chiplets are unlikely to 'save' the Mac Pro in a core count "war" with AMD ( and/or Intel ) if Apple stays 100% grounded to it being a SoC in scope ( some minimal GPU + NPU + etc etc. apple custom fixed function logic ) as first priority more so than raw focus on application host processor core count .

Apple's constant rigging the bell on "Unified Memory" is insanely create points to substantially different design priorities. More likely to get a multi chip module build of a CPU chip with a GPU chip sharing a common memory pool than something that was more monomaniacally focused. Apple doing that just to get better yields on bigger blocks of the chip rather than even more expensive monolithic die. Or using RAM system cache chiplets to free up space on the consolidated logic chips for logic to get to a much bigger system pool.

Apple probably isn't going to get into a core count war' ( past 64 cores at all.) Pretty likely will stay in similar count zone that the Mac is currently in. ( 32 cores range).


If the nominal Apple Silicon SoC could feed the nominal USD4/TB4 ( or incremental future of that line) ports with video then the entry level Mac Pro ( and rack model) could free up another PCI-e slot for other stuff. The apps that were optimized for uniform memory GPU workload would run "OK" and the workload could cover something that wasn't so GPU heavy ( audio work. virtual host server work . etc. )


In non Mac Pro SoC perhaps the cell modem is on a chiplet so don't have to completely coupled those but lower the power consumption of interconnect because so close ( short). Save an iMac or MBP 16" SoC where have higher core target but budget individual die sizes.

I know they used the word SoC constantly during the keynote but I really don't think they'll use an SoC in the manner you're assuming. EPYC is technically an SoC. It has no seperate chipset for USB, SATA and all that while Threadripper and Ryzen do.

I think Apple will go with that approach. There will not be a GPU accessible to users inside the "SoC" that Apple provides for the Mac Pro is my opinion. But it will contain everything else like all the PCIe controllers, Thunderbolt, USB. Possibly all the networking too (WiFi, Bluetooth, 10Gb Ethernet possibly).

And that central SoC die would then be surrounded by ARM execution units as chiplets. Similar to EPYC like in this photo below.

UuU5lNj.png


In the above photo the big central die is the I/O die which does all I mentioned before but also has the memory interface. The smaller 4 dies on either side are the 8 core chiplets which talk only to the central die for all their memory access and other things.

I think Apple will likely do something similar to this for all Macs. You may have noticed in the keynote they said they would be making brand new ARM chips specifically for Macs. Not using for instance the iPad or iPhone CPU's in Macs.

It is my feeling and opinion that this will mean the MacBook Air will likely get an I/O die + single chiplet. That chiplet will contain 8 cores but have 4 disabled. The MacBook Pro 13" will probably get the same thing but 6 cores enabled, the MacBook Pro 16" will likely get all 8 cores enabled.

That will allow Apple to bin the chips so the ones with defects can still be utilised. Similarly the MacBook Air only needs a single or dual Thunderbolt ports while the 16" needs four ports. These too can be part of this binning process.

When it comes to the iMac I'd expect a single I/O die combined with dual 8-core chiplets so they can offer configurations from 8 to 16 cores. For the iMac Pro I'd expect four chiplets taking that system up-to 32 cores and the I/O die will likely contain a quad-channel memory controller which can be cut down to dual-channel when used in MacBook Pro's and Airs.

For the big Mac Pro I'd expect 8 chiplets so they can offer 16 (2 cores per die active) to 64 (all cores active) core configurations. But again this is all just conjecture but the fact is they have access to the same nodes AMD do and so the density is going to be relatively identical. Whether they do that, I'm just making educated guessing.

If they go with this approach it will result in lower prices for them and extremely high yield rates of all the dies they have manufactured and the Intel approach of just making ever increasingly dense monolithic dies is one of the reasons they can't compete right now and are being rejected by Apple. Intels yield issues with 10nm are highly exasperated by the large size and density of the dies they are trying to fabricate, an issue AMD simply don't face and Apple would be fully aware of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Adult80HD

Demigod Mac

macrumors 6502a
Apr 25, 2008
840
288
I remember how quickly PowerPC got dropped like a rock when Apple switched to Intel, despite assurances that support would continue for a long time.
Not just Apple but also with developers. I'd just purchased a Power Mac G5, too.

Not falling for that again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: phoenix-mac-user

BlueTide

macrumors regular
Feb 6, 2007
230
286
Silicon Valley, CA
Let's end it here, it is clear that we have 2 different opinions about several things and in particular about what "scientific experiment" means...?

It's always amusing to see these reality-challenged comments and wonder if it's about trolling or...

Having just spent $30k on my Mac Pro, I'm concerned about its resale value and usability. Lets say they stop supporting intel in 4 years, would you spend 30k on a car that will stop working two years?

Well, you can always hope that Apple keeps the Bootcamp drivers running or that the Linux folks support it.
 

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
I remember how quickly PowerPC got dropped like a rock when Apple switched to Intel, despite assurances that support would continue for a long time.
Not just Apple but also with developers. I'd just purchased a Power Mac G5, too.

Not falling for that again.

It's not the same though. PPC was dead for desktop use and there were no good mobile choices in the pipeline. No one was using them in these roles but Apple. They had to ditch them as fast as possible--get off the ship before it went down and took them with it. The Intel x86 architecture for PC's isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and Apple is a tiny amount of Intel's customer base. The install base of x86 Macs is at least one if not two orders of magnitude higher today than the PPC base was back then.

No need to jump to conclusions by comparing apples to oranges.
[automerge]1593046312[/automerge]
Having just spent $30k on my Mac Pro, I'm concerned about its resale value and usability. Lets say they stop supporting intel in 4 years, would you spend 30k on a car that will stop working two years?

That being said, I do need the performance now, but I probably would have just gone with a similarly equipped PC.

Yeah, but it's not going to stop working. Even if they stop OS updates it will still be very functional for several years after that. If you're using it in your work as a pro, make sure you're charging enough to cover the cost of owning it. Take the full 100% depreciation you can take on it using Section 179, then it's 100% paid for itself in one year in tax savings. Easy-peasy.
 
Last edited:

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,612
8,636
Not saying they couldn't do something different... But the details coming out about Apple's CPUs involve a lot of specialized coprocessors that are a required part of the design. A manufacturing issue in any of these parts of the CPU will trash bin the whole chip. I'm also not sure Apple is going to want to bin based on CPU and GPU defects on the same chip.

They could change things up on the larger CPUs. But I don't think they'll be as flexible for binning as Intel.

That will allow Apple to bin the chips so the ones with defects can still be utilised. Similarly the MacBook Air only needs a single or dual Thunderbolt ports while the 16" needs four ports. These too can be part of this binning process.
Perhaps the 12x/12z was a trial run at binning to see if they could do it effectively. They hadn’t done it previously (to public knowledge) so maybe this IS a method change.
 

Kpjoslee

macrumors 6502
Sep 11, 2007
417
269
Not saying they couldn't do something different... But the details coming out about Apple's CPUs involve a lot of specialized coprocessors that are a required part of the design. A manufacturing issue in any of these parts of the CPU will trash bin the whole chip. I'm also not sure Apple is going to want to bin based on CPU and GPU defects on the same chip.

They could change things up on the larger CPUs. But I don't think they'll be as flexible for binning as Intel.

I can see them putting NPU and GPU on the separate package for Mac SoC. It should give them more flexibility in terms of binning CPU for different core counts and speed.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,143
7,120
Not to sound rude, but expecting anything more than a roughly 3-year lifespan on any technology is rather wishful thinking. In recent years performance bumps have been smaller so you could be excused for hoping for five years, but seven? The long updates on Apple's Mac Pro line have had nothing to do with value propositions and everything to do with their rather tepid interest in the "Pro" market. That's why they had to make so much noise about the new Mac Pro and ProDisplay last year, because even they knew they let the previous generation of MP languish wayyyy too long.

I do not know why people keep bringing this up. I was able to use my 2010 Mac Pro until fall of 2017 as my primary system. Plus another two years after for encoding videos all day. The ONLY reason I am not using it today is because it cannot produce HEVC content. I have a gaming system I built in 2015 that I still use today. Using a GTX 1080 (non Ti) which was released in 2016 that is still a beast of a computer and can still play the latest games wonderfully. I also use this as another video encoding machine, and it still performs wonderfully in that area too.

I do not know where this 3 years = NO LONGER USABLE timeframe came from. But it is not true. I know professional photographers that still use Power Mac G5. They don't need all the useless stuff (to them) in the new Photoshop versions. They get their work done and get paid for it on an old system. And that system is going on 17 years old now and is STILL usable.
 

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
I do not know why people keep bringing this up. I was able to use my 2010 Mac Pro until fall of 2017 as my primary system. Plus another two years after for encoding videos all day. The ONLY reason I am not using it today is because it cannot produce HEVC content. I have a gaming system I built in 2015 that I still use today. Using a GTX 1080 (non Ti) which was released in 2016 that is still a beast of a computer and can still play the latest games wonderfully. I also use this as another video encoding machine, and it still performs wonderfully in that area too.

I do not know where this 3 years = NO LONGER USABLE timeframe came from. But it is not true. I know professional photographers that still use Power Mac G5. They don't need all the useless stuff (to them) in the new Photoshop versions. They get their work done and get paid for it on an old system. And that system is going on 17 years old now and is STILL usable.

It gets brought up because what you are describing is the exception to the norm. Also,*no one* has said they are no longer usable after three years. Literally no one--you're creating a straw man. However, if you are buying cutting edge technology it will simply no longer be cutting edge in three years. If you *need* cutting edge technology then yes, after about three years you should look at something new. If you simply like to buy cutting edge technology when you buy it and don't need that power, then yes, you can expect to get a longer life out of it.

A professional photographer using a G5 must be shooting in jpeg or still scanning film, because I can't think of any newer cameras shooting raw that would work on that. Citing an extreme example does not prove a general point.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,143
7,120
It gets brought up because what you are describing is the exception to the norm. Also,*no one* has said they are no longer usable after three years. Literally no one--you're creating a straw man. However, if you are buying cutting edge technology it will simply no longer be cutting edge in three years. If you *need* cutting edge technology then yes, after about three years you should look at something new. If you simply like to buy cutting edge technology when you buy it and don't need that power, then yes, you can expect to get a longer life out of it.

A professional photographer using a G5 must be shooting in jpeg or still scanning film, because I can't think of any newer cameras shooting raw that would work on that. Citing an extreme example does not prove a general point.

I know far too many people to count that have computers a lot longer than three years. It is not the norm here to ditch computers every three years. That is the actual exception. You have to be VERY niche to jump to 4K, 8K, 16K, ... footage IMMEDIATELY for example. Nearly all businesses are not like this. You need to get to Hollywood or VERY BIG enthusiasts for this to occur. I know several local businesses that still shoot 1080p and are HAPPY with it. They have NO need to jump to 4K. It is useless to them and it just adds unnecessary work. I know wedding photographers that are still using a 2013 MacBook Pro for their needs. They have no issues.

The only place I have seen around that does this three year lifecycle is colleges because they get the lowest of the low end Dell systems - i3 levels and they upgrade those every three years.

So what if they are still using JPEG? They still produce better looking images than others I have seen with brand new systems. It is not an extreme example. Go to any local business that's not Hollywood or film/audio studio level and you will see old systems being used. I have had to support these businesses.

Buying cutting edge technology does not mean you always need cutting edge technology. Why buy an i3 for a three year lifespan when you can get an i7/i9 for 5+ years for only a few hundred more? I buy systems with a 5 or 7 year plan. Its a long term investment. That is why I add 64GB or 96 GB of RAM in my systems right now. I don't need it now. But 5 years from now I might.

Haven't you seen that global PC sales have been decreasing year after year? It is become MORE of a norm to not get new computers ASAP but keep your old ones.


It is far more common for 7 year lifespan than you might think. As proven by the sales slightly increasing after 8 years of decline:


And actually I have spoken to CTOs about this too that feel due to their needs, keeping their computers for 5/7 years is more financially viable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voyageur

Vov

macrumors newbie
Jun 29, 2009
12
1
It gets brought up because what you are describing is the exception to the norm. Also,*no one* has said they are no longer usable after three years. Literally no one--you're creating a straw man. However, if you are buying cutting edge technology it will simply no longer be cutting edge in three years. If you *need* cutting edge technology then yes, after about three years you should look at something new. If you simply like to buy cutting edge technology when you buy it and don't need that power, then yes, you can expect to get a longer life out of it.

A professional photographer using a G5 must be shooting in jpeg or still scanning film, because I can't think of any newer cameras shooting raw that would work on that. Citing an extreme example does not prove a general point.

I think the point is a lot of Mac Pro users here, like myself, have held onto their 2009-2012 Mac Pros for so long given that they are Intel and have been very upgradeable. Even if you are not a professional, it was a great value.

The biggest benefit to the new Mac Pro is they returned to an upgradeable form factor, but given that most people are switching to ARM in just a couple years, that benefit is lost some.

Personally the ARM iMac sounds like an excellent bridge to the eventual ARM Mac Pro, which is a route I never thought I'd take but if you are going to get rid of or sale a Mac after 2-3 years, the iMac for ~2K is a lot easier to stomach.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voyageur

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
I know far too many people to count that have computers a lot longer than three years. It is not the norm here to ditch computers every three years. That is the actual exception. You have to be VERY niche to jump to 4K, 8K, 16K, ... footage IMMEDIATELY for example. Nearly all businesses are not like this. You need to get to Hollywood or VERY BIG enthusiasts for this to occur. I know several local businesses that still shoot 1080p and are HAPPY with it. They have NO need to jump to 4K. It is useless to them and it just adds unnecessary work. I know wedding photographers that are still using a 2013 MacBook Pro for their needs. They have no issues.

The only place I have seen around that does this three year lifecycle is colleges because they get the lowest of the low end Dell systems - i3 levels and they upgrade those every three years.

So what if they are still using JPEG? They still produce better looking images than others I have seen with brand new systems. It is not an extreme example. Go to any local business that's not Hollywood or film/audio studio level and you will see old systems being used. I have had to support these businesses.

Buying cutting edge technology does not mean you always need cutting edge technology. Why buy an i3 for a three year lifespan when you can get an i7/i9 for 5+ years for only a few hundred more? I buy systems with a 5 or 7 year plan. Its a long term investment.

Haven't you seen that global PC sales have been decreasing year after year? It is become MORE of a norm to not get new computers ASAP but keep your old ones.


It is far more common for 7 year lifespan than you might think. As proven by the sales slightly increasing after 8 years of decline:


You apparently didn't read anything I wrote....and as for your links, the decline in PC sales is not drive by longer life cycles but rather by the fact that people have been ditching computers for more and more powerful phones and tablets.

Go back and read what I wrote again. You keep trying to put words into my mouth.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,143
7,120
You apparently didn't read anything I wrote....and as for your links, the decline in PC sales is not drive by longer life cycles but rather by the fact that people have been ditching computers for more and more powerful phones and tablets.

Go back and read what I wrote again. You keep trying to put words into my mouth.

Uh I did read what you wrote. Did you read what I wrote because I replied to what you wrote.
 

Adult80HD

macrumors 6502a
Nov 19, 2019
701
837
I think the point is a lot of Mac Pro users here, like myself, have held onto their 2009-2012 Mac Pros for so long given that they are Intel and have been very upgradeable. Even if you are not a professional, it was a great value.

The biggest benefit to the new Mac Pro is they returned to an upgradeable form factor, but given that most people are switching to ARM in just a couple years, that benefit is lost some.

Personally the ARM iMac sounds like an excellent bridge to the eventual ARM Mac Pro, which is a route I never thought I'd take but if you are going to get rid of or sale a Mac after 2-3 years, the iMac for ~2K is a lot easier to stomach.

Oh I agree, but let's face it, those 4,1 and 5,1 MP's were the exception to the norm by a long shot. You can't find another computer that you can easily compare for that kind of life, and it was also an anomaly driven by in large part by Apple's failure to produce another expandable Mac when they launched the Trashcan.
[automerge]1593054296[/automerge]
Uh I did read what you wrote. Did you read what I wrote because I replied to what you wrote.

You have falsely claimed I and others have implied that computers are only good for three years. I pointed out that was false. Your response was basically more of the exact same claims about three years. So yeah, whatever.
 

Ethosik

Contributor
Oct 21, 2009
8,143
7,120
Oh I agree, but let's face it, those 4,1 and 5,1 MP's were the exception to the norm by a long shot. You can't find another computer that you can easily compare for that kind of life, and it was also an anomaly driven by in large part by Apple's failure to produce another expandable Mac when they launched the Trashcan.

There is nothing inherit about computer age and functionality. I have an old Dell Optiplex 5 years old now that is still used for some things. If someone uses Photoshop CS3 5 years ago, and still uses it today, their business is doing great, they are running on a GREAT core i3 system and is still running great. Why upgrade exactly? Businesses have very strict IT budgets. Trust me, I have had to fight for some servers. Having a system around for around 5 years is not the big exception most people think. Actually, if you perform a google search for business recommendations, it mentions three to five years. Some businesses push passed the 5 year recommendations. Most business will have 5 years as the rollout. I have been an IT sys admin for 15 years for several businesses. At least 5 year lifespan was the plan for all of them. Colleges were three because they got the lowest available spec system every three years. And it was built in the 5 year span to get more than what is needed. If someone needs an i3, get i5 or i7. If someone needs i7, get an i9. The extra few hundred for the processor upgrades was more desirable than ~$2,000 every three years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Voyageur

hardw0od

macrumors newbie
Jun 22, 2020
11
0
Wondering the same thing myself.

I am within the return window for my 7,1 MP, but I am not sure if it is worth returning.

The ARM thread is causing a lot of hype and panic that Apple is going to suddenly obsolete machines they just released within a year or two. Would they really do that with this all new 2019 MP design? It seems to me that they put a whole lot of effort into developing it. It is quite a polished machine and built phenomenally.

I would think that Apple has had a roadmap laid out long before they released it. So if ARM was right around the corner why wouldn't they just save it for that?

The 7,1 sure does feel like the modular design all us MP users were begging for. It seems like a machine that should still be current 10 years from now...?


The same thing happened to me in 2004. I spent a boatload of money to buy a dual processor G5. In 2005 Apple switched to Intel and by 2007-8 my computer was obsolete and extremely slow. I purchased a 2010 5,1 in 2011 and I am still using that machine to this day. I am extremely fearful of the same thing happening to me again and therefore I am skipping the 7,1 and waiting for the ARM version of the Mac Pro. By 2022 all Intel Macs will begin their phase out and in 2023-24 the 7,1 will be obsolete. Thankfully the money that you've spent won't be in vain and at absolute worst you can turn your machine into a Linux box or install Windows.
 

pasamio

macrumors 6502
Jan 22, 2020
356
297
Compared to computers that are three and four years later, of course it's going to be slow. You've got four more years of processor development and I'd say this was during the twilight of the golden years of clock speed increases for Intel and also increases in core count. I had an old G5 back in this era as well and whilst it didn't beat out all of the comparable Intel boxes, it still had more than enough tricks up it's sleeve depending on your use case. I had a few projects that absolutely thrashed the box, instances where when we tried to do comparable work on Intel it didn't work out as well. Edge case for sure but you're comparing four years later in tech, of course it's going to be comparatively slow.
 

hardw0od

macrumors newbie
Jun 22, 2020
11
0
Compared to computers that are three and four years later, of course it's going to be slow. You've got four more years of processor development and I'd say this was during the twilight of the golden years of clock speed increases for Intel and also increases in core count. I had an old G5 back in this era as well and whilst it didn't beat out all of the comparable Intel boxes, it still had more than enough tricks up it's sleeve depending on your use case. I had a few projects that absolutely thrashed the box, instances where when we tried to do comparable work on Intel it didn't work out as well. Edge case for sure but you're comparing four years later in tech, of course it's going to be comparatively slow.

The problem was not the speeds, hence while I'm still doing "Pro" work on a 2010 Mac Pro in 2020. The problem was that Apple completely abandoned their users by 2008. At the time I felt pretty stupid investing such a hefty amount of money into something that was useless and being outperformed by a Mac Mini only 3 years after it launched. They somewhat made this up to me with the current machine I'm working on which has given me a decade of service. I'm just saying that I would hate to make the same mistake by purchasing a $6,000 Mac Pro only to have it be obsolete in 2 years. It's a bit different this time though and at the very least you can turn the machine into a PC so at least you have that going for you this time around.
 

OkiRun

macrumors 65816
Oct 25, 2019
1,005
585
Japan
Since it's opinions we are sharing ~
I think Apple will continue production of the 2019 for another four years and service/upgrade it for between 3 to 4 more years. The 7,1 lifespan will be 7 to 8 years and not 2 to 3 years.
Apple is still 'invested' in intel.
The WWDC Keynote made it clear.
Go to: 1:48:45

 
  • Like
Reactions: bloomfeld

bloomfeld

macrumors member
Mar 1, 2006
71
72
Europe, Berlin, Germany
The same thing happened to me in 2004. I spent a boatload of money to buy a dual processor G5. In 2005 Apple switched to Intel and by 2007-8 my computer was obsolete and extremely slow. I purchased a 2010 5,1 in 2011 and I am still using that machine to this day. I am extremely fearful of the same thing happening to me again and therefore I am skipping the 7,1 and waiting for the ARM version of the Mac Pro. By 2022 all Intel Macs will begin their phase out and in 2023-24 the 7,1 will be obsolete. Thankfully the money that you've spent won't be in vain and at absolute worst you can turn your machine into a Linux box or install Windows.

Yes I feel you as I went the same road with my G5 back in 2005, and the transition to intel felt like a bummer. After that, my Mac Pro 2008 served me well until 2017 when I replaced it with an upgraded 2009.

And now I am writing this on my new 7.1 that is still in its return window. So I was debating with myself if I would keep it - but guess what - I am going to. Because it is not only a remarkably engineered piece of hardware and a joy to use. It is the (albeit expensive) successor for my cheese graters that I have waited for. It is as close to expansion standards as Apple might not come back again to, speaking of both hardware and software. It allows me to work with other OS apart from macOS and we will see how this will be possible with Apple Silicon machines.

Your mileage may vary, and the old IT wisdom is still true that if you can wait for a new machine, you will always get something better if you wait long enough.
 

pasamio

macrumors 6502
Jan 22, 2020
356
297
The problem was not the speeds, hence while I'm still doing "Pro" work on a 2010 Mac Pro in 2020. The problem was that Apple completely abandoned their users by 2008. At the time I felt pretty stupid investing such a hefty amount of money into something that was useless and being outperformed by a Mac Mini only 3 years after it launched. They somewhat made this up to me with the current machine I'm working on which has given me a decade of service. I'm just saying that I would hate to make the same mistake by purchasing a $6,000 Mac Pro only to have it be obsolete in 2 years. It's a bit different this time though and at the very least you can turn the machine into a PC so at least you have that going for you this time around.

I think some of that though is that Intel were going from strength to strength at the time and compared to their earlier spec'd chips of that generation, the Intel seemed to be knocking it out of the park. I still have a bunch of 2011 era gear that is hitting the point where I want to replace in the next year so I'll personally be holding out for ARM because I hold to the rule that if you're going to buy Apple gear, you buy it when it's just released.

Since it's opinions we are sharing ~
I think Apple will continue production of the 2019 for another four years and service/upgrade it for between 3 to 4 more years. The 7,1 lifespan will be 7 to 8 years and not 2 to 3 years.
Apple is still 'invested' in intel.
The WWDC Keynote made it clear.
Go to: 1:48:45

Isn't that time stamp the end of the video? Feels like a troll :D

Whilst it might look like I'm disagreeing with hardw0od, I echo the Intel transition experience where PPC fell away rather quickly. Apple in the same situation dropped the legacy architecture quickly and really as a programmer I don't blame them because it simplifies development and testing, plus for low level systems you get to clear out the architecture specific code. I actually think it is likely that the Intel Mac's will get two releases after the last one shifts over, likely the Mac Pro, and that'll be it similar to PPC. For me the unknown is if they'll actually ship a replacement ARM chip for the Mac Pro in the two year time frame they're talking about. It does mean if you've bought a Mac new in the last year, you'll likely get five years out of it before you get no updates.

The other reason to drop support is to add new features and simplify existing implementations. We're already starting to see out of WWDC notes on how low level security will look different for MacOS with ARM for example. They'll be able to engineer into the silicon functionality that won't be there on the Intel chips. That I think is the greater push to obsolete Intel support more than anything. From that same keynote, it's about products.
 

th0masp

macrumors 6502a
Mar 16, 2015
851
517
Just wondering now how would this transition impact driver development? Assuming you had an Intel based machine that was still being supported and Apple came out with a new generation AMD GPU exclusively for one of its newer ARM-based models.

Would the Intel OS build alone ensure that such a GPU could be used in the 7,1 or as an eGPU or would they have to do extra legwork to make it compatible?
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,612
8,636
Just wondering now how would this transition impact driver development? Assuming you had an Intel based machine that was still being supported and Apple came out with a new generation AMD GPU exclusively for one of its newer ARM-based models.
Just going through the WWDC videos. Apparently, if you’re not using DriverKit, you should be. :) If you’re not, pain is assured. Another interesting thing that I keep seeing over and over again in the videos I’ve watched...
752E0227-C4CE-439A-B36F-086AD0C18515.jpeg
Apple Silicon Macs are ONLY defined as utilizing an Apple GPU. Only Intel-based Macs are said to use Intel, NVIDIA or AMD GPU’s (btw... NVIDIA??). What this says to me is there won’t be any non-Apple GPU options in Silicon Macs. And, when you look at the features and capabilities they’re enabling (again, watching the videos) any non-Apple GPU would provide degraded system level performance compared to the Apple GPU anyway. I’m interested to see the ray tracing presentation they’re scheduled to give on Friday.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.