Apple has no interest in the desktop - if (and it's a big IF) they drop Intel/AMD they'll drop the iMac, the MiniMac and the MaxiMac.
Port the iOS toolset to Windows and Linux - no need for any Apple desktop.
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MP 7,1 What does Apple's switch to ARM based processors mean for the future of the Mac Pro
- Thread starter Korican100
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Port the iOS toolset to Windows and Linux - no need for any Apple desktop.
Without reading all the posts here, is it feasible in any way for Apple to build a hybrid architecture for any of their systems? Meaning the system has both Intel and Arm processors, that switch between them such as integrated and discrete graphics?
Really not a big deal if your business depends on it and it's not that much money. That basically works out to about $22/day. Heck, most people spend that much on a lot of things they don't need, so if you have a business use for it, no big deal.
I believe the answer would be “yes” since USB4, being the next standard releasing next year, is in fact backwards compatible with all USB speeds and Thunderbolt 3. USB4 delivers the same speed as Thunderbolt 3 as well (40 Gbps) and thus using your current Thunderbolt 3 accessories/peripherals would not cause a reduction in performance.
It's easier to build a PC and use Premiere Pro and Blackmagic software... No expiration date for that.
I do not know why people would be concerned. There are still people out there using old Premiere Pro versions. Old Photoshop and Illustrator versions.
Apple cannot just snap their fingers an all x86 software is on ARM. Things will take time. I do not expect anything other than an entry level Mac being announced with ARM. If any is announced at all. They might just mention it is something that is coming.
Apple cannot just snap their fingers an all x86 software is on ARM. Things will take time. I do not expect anything other than an entry level Mac being announced with ARM. If any is announced at all. They might just mention it is something that is coming.
I keep seeing a lot of talk about huge numbers of cores as a solution, but I'm a skeptic in that regard. We've seen that in the Intel world, but it really hasn't yielded massive performance gains and at best just minor gains. So much software still struggles to use more than a handful of cores, and many computing tasks are not inherently capable of being parallelized--at least not easily.
I'm with those that think that this will be a laptop-style solution first and foremost for Apple. They'll have all native versions of all of their applications, and they'll make it as easy as possible for developers to make native versions of their own apps. Unlike the PPC transition this does *not* have to be a hard and fast break to ARM, and Apple won't care if it takes years. Their ability to already deliver multiple versions of their products means it won't be a big deal for them to still have x86 MacOS and MacOS apps for a few years to come while they snap up a larger segment of the laptop/tablet market with a machine that is uber slim, quiet, and has great battery life.
As others have pointed out, the vast majority of users are plenty happy to use a pretty slim set of applications and don't need a lot of power. A small ARM MacBook/MBA would be perfect for those folks. I could see Apple even making it clear that it won't run all of your regular x86 MacOS apps, but it will run iOS and iPadOS apps, and faster than on those devices.
One thing that seems to be overlooked here is that the overall computer market--both for PC's and laptops--has been shrinking for years now and will continue to shrink. People have moved to their mobile devices and tablets and that doesn't seem like a trend that will ever change. Apple leveraging the existing technology they have there would make sense as the margins on these devices get smaller and smaller--but it's a delicate calculus of how much they have invest to get to the point where the pro machines need to be in terms of power vs. the revenue they would get from selling them. It seems just as likely that Apple will drop out of the high-end desktop market at some point in the future as they would invest in a specialty chip and solution set just for that market.
Of course all of this is just speculation until we hear more in a few weeks.
I'm with those that think that this will be a laptop-style solution first and foremost for Apple. They'll have all native versions of all of their applications, and they'll make it as easy as possible for developers to make native versions of their own apps. Unlike the PPC transition this does *not* have to be a hard and fast break to ARM, and Apple won't care if it takes years. Their ability to already deliver multiple versions of their products means it won't be a big deal for them to still have x86 MacOS and MacOS apps for a few years to come while they snap up a larger segment of the laptop/tablet market with a machine that is uber slim, quiet, and has great battery life.
As others have pointed out, the vast majority of users are plenty happy to use a pretty slim set of applications and don't need a lot of power. A small ARM MacBook/MBA would be perfect for those folks. I could see Apple even making it clear that it won't run all of your regular x86 MacOS apps, but it will run iOS and iPadOS apps, and faster than on those devices.
One thing that seems to be overlooked here is that the overall computer market--both for PC's and laptops--has been shrinking for years now and will continue to shrink. People have moved to their mobile devices and tablets and that doesn't seem like a trend that will ever change. Apple leveraging the existing technology they have there would make sense as the margins on these devices get smaller and smaller--but it's a delicate calculus of how much they have invest to get to the point where the pro machines need to be in terms of power vs. the revenue they would get from selling them. It seems just as likely that Apple will drop out of the high-end desktop market at some point in the future as they would invest in a specialty chip and solution set just for that market.
Of course all of this is just speculation until we hear more in a few weeks.
At this point, we dont know. Without Intel's certification, it wont be possible tho.
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I'm not sure what Apple is thinking. macOS is already not popular or rare compared to PC or Windows. And yet, Apple is going to migrate from x86 to ARM which will be going to make macOS more limited due to its compatibility.
Intel offered major parts of TB3 to the USB-IF as a base for USB4 implementation. Apple is a major contributor of both Thunderbolt and USB4. I bet that Apple can implement USB4 with ARM processors even without any Intel help.
Agree!
Multi CPU/core desktop computers has been around for almost 25 years now. Still, only in certain specific areas (where it really matters) it is used efficiently (video, graphic cards, scientific computing, AI etc ). I have hard to believe a move to ARM would make a quantum leap here.
Certainly a point. This could be another step towards the post-pc society. However, there will for a very long time be a rather big niche market for desktop computers with large displays, keyboards and/or large amounts of legacy code, with or without macOS
But Intel still the one who certifies TB technology. This is why AMD still not able to use it officially until this March. And yet, I rarely see motherboards with TB3 for AMD CPU. So far, I saw only one.
The moment Intel offered TB3 without royalties to the USB-IF and the USB-IF used most of it as base for USB4, your argument ceased to exist.
The moment Intel offered TB3 without royalties to the USB-IF and the USB-IF used most of it as base for USB4, your argument ceased to exist.
That still doesnt explain why many products with AMD CPU don't have TB?
Gigabyte has been producing TB cards for AMD motherboards for a long time. While is not common, solutions exist for TB3 and AMD for some years, even when Intel was keeping the TB tech very close. Now it's in the open.
And Gigabyte's products WERE'NT certified officially until they released one from this March cause Intel officially start certifying AMD motherboards.
AMD has cross-licensing agreements with Intel since the end of 70s. If there was a real market for TB3 with AMD users, market pressure would make things done. Intel kept TB versions 1 and 2 very close, but TB3 is in the open for some time now and Intel really want to disseminate TB3.
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The important point is that now (most of) TB3 is being implemented for the masses as USB4 and USB-IF is in charge of the implementation. TB3 was a niche high end product, from now on will be common place to every device that needs the bandwidth and resources.
At this moment, we know absolutely nothing - everything is speculation.
Apple already have the core done for years with iOS devices, the uncore implementation for desktops is very different than the one needed for iOS devices. I'm inclined to think that Srouji team probably went for USB4 instead of going to the pure TB3, since Apple has been contributing a lot for USB4 implementation.
Then how will they suppose to use USB 4.0 in 2021? USB 4.0 wont be released till 2022.
This is utter tripe. 7,1 will be a workhorse just like the classic Mac Pro: PCIe slots, high RAM ceiling, socketed CPU.
If they were no longer interested in the desktop, they would not have bothered releasing the 7,1.
More likely your host system is either ARM or x64 based and can accept PCIe daughter cards of whichever architecture you require.
If Apple releases an ARM Mac soon, they could use Intel JHL6xxx or JHL7xxx controllers, or even the long rumoured ASMedia one, if they want TB3 support right now. AFAIK nothing impedes Apple to use the controller and make drivers for it.
It was announced in early 2017 that in 2018 TB3 was royalty free, it's open since 2019 and the spec 1.0 of USB4 was ratified last August by USB-IF. Tiger Lake and Zen 3 will have USB4 support later this year, not 2022.
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Hybrid chips are possible... especially if apple is making there own bespoke chips. Very hard though, you need a way to mark instructions for a MUX between the two archs so 64+1 bits also need same endianess and cross arch register access.