What features most attract you?

[bunnspecial]

For digital:

1. It must be Nikon F mount. At this point my glass collection is too extensive to consider anything else

2. In Nikon F mount, I want an AI feeler tab and an in-body focus motor. See above. Unfortunately Nikon has only seen fit to make one DSLR with a flip-up AI tab...

3. 2 card slots, at least one of which is not an SD card(although one of my cameras now that I use a lot fails on both counts...). A camera has to have a lot of other redeeming features for me to be forced to use SD cards exclusively with it(the Df falls in that category).

4. I like having a PC socket, but if not at least a hot shoe. I don't know of any current DSLR or higher end mirrorless that lacks at least one of these, although some people see PC as less important now.

5. Provisions for a remote release. My Df gets bonus points for taking a standard threaded cable release

6. I like a mirror lock-up function

7. I want good ISO 6400 or better

Film cameras-I have bunches of different ones that are all different, but at the end of the day the Nikon F2AS and FM2 represent the perfect combination of features for me for an all-manual camera. I like the F4 and F6 a lot also. For medium format, I know that I don’t want 645 abd like interchangeable backs(although my Pentax 67 breaks that rule) but have had a lot of different types of cameras.

BTW, when I was still living in Louisville, Kentucky back in 2020 it was possible for me to buy, shoot, and pick up a processed roll of color slide film in a single 8 hour day. Unfortunately St Louis doesn’t have any E6 labs I know of, but I could certainly do that with C41 film.

 

[Adarna]

I certainly respect your choices given budgetary constraints, but I don't think anyone here considers cashflow a driving factor when making purchases. A hobby by definition is nearly always a money sink. ?

I see what you did there.

To remove any confusion what I am speaking of is a viable business model for the hobby so it may be enjoyed by millennials & later a quarter century from now.

Apple & Android brands figured that out over a dozen years ago while Canon et all were flat footed.

CIPA 2021 worldwide shipment numbers are below year 2000 numbers.

When smartphone disrupts old tech then old tech needs to find a way to stay relevant to new customers.

I'm the typical customer Canon wants back as I am good to provide them business for half a century more but given their business model isn't to "push" upgrades to me in a frictionless way then odds are they'll have difficulty with others.

When Apple starts including 5G modems into year 2023 Macs odds are my telco will offer it like iPads that are on a 24/36/48 month contract. This will help improve sales of Macs for more people & businesses.

When say a $2,499 MBP 16" can be had for $69.41/month + 5G data on a 36 month contract then odds are it will be more saleable than the same MBP SKU that went on sale on Adorama for $2,199 even when provided a $183.25/month 12 month financing.

 

[RadioHedgeFund]

Longevity. Specifically I brought my Sony A300 in 2009 and it still takes better pictures than any camera phone, has in-body image stabilisation, an adjustable LCD and dust removal from the mirror.

 

[kenoh]

I'll also add that because I've been shooting for so long, a lot of the things that @r.harris1 and @kenoh mentioned are on my list, but they were already a part of older bodies I had so I assume/know that they are included in upgraded models of the same manufacturer. But if you are starting fresh or switching brands, it is good to know what the baseline is in a different body.

I also shoot film now, so my criteria for a film body is vastly different than a digital body. I basically have no criteria for a film body other than that it works. ?

I usually look for that criteria you look for in a film body too…. Generally the image quality in a camera that works is better…. ? sorry being cheeky.

 

[kenoh]

What advantage does film have other than the experience of going old fashioned?

Thats pretty much the entire advantage of film for me. It forces me to think, to plan, to concentrate and pardon the pun, focus. I like the excitement of seeing if I screwed up that day. I feel like I am actually creating something rather than recording something and I work in tech so I value doing somethings the old fashioned way without a CPU sometimes.

 

[kenoh]

I remember back in 1992 and after being able to buy film and also cassette tapes at every corner drugstore.

It depends what you are looking for really. I can go get Kodak Color 200 or a reasonable selection of Ilford B&W film nearby in a number of local pharmacies. If I want something a bit more special then yes, I need to order online.

A friend of mine shoots exclusively film and he buys bulk film. He doesn’t load his own, he buys 200 rolls of TRI-X 400 at a time. His wife goes nuts because on vacation his case is usually filled half with film.

When I shoot B&W i tend to try and process it myself at home now.

 

[kenoh]

I see what you did there.

To remove any confusion what I am speaking of is a viable business model for the hobby so it may be enjoyed by millennials & later a quarter century from now.

Apple & Android brands figured that out over a dozen years ago while Canon et all were flat footed.

CIPA 2021 worldwide shipment numbers are below year 2000 numbers.

When smartphone disrupts old tech then old tech needs to find a way to stay relevant to new customers.

I'm the typical customer Canon wants back as I am good to provide them business for half a century more but given their business model isn't to "push" upgrades to me in a frictionless way then odds are they'll have difficulty with others.

When Apple starts including 5G modems into year 2023 Macs odds are my telco will offer it like iPads that are on a 24/36/48 month contract. This will help improve sales of Macs for more people & businesses.

When say a $2,499 MBP 16" can be had for $69.41/month + 5G data on a 36 month contract then odds are it will be more saleable than the same MBP SKU that went on sale on Adorama for $2,199 even when provided a $183.25/month 12 month financing.

I feel like I am the odd one out sometimes. I think back to pre-2007 when the iPhone gen 1 came out with the first proper attempt at a camera.

Up to that point, 99% of people simply didn’t have a camera at all. Cameras were a luxury item that most people in my circles as a child didn’t have the money for. Sure we got a 110 disposable for vacations but to have one of those fancy Nikons or Canons was a special treat.

Then the smartphone arrived and over the years it has become more compelling. However, The demographic of people in the 80s and 90s who had cameras still have dedicated cameras. The demographic has increased to more people being able to afford to have a dedicated camera.

We see articles about 99% of people shoot with a phone. My thoughts on this are that these folks just wouldn’t have had a camera previously. It is not that previously 100% of people had an SLR and chose to switch to just use a phone. I think that photography has actually been made available to more people by commoditising a camera by adding it to their phones - as they always have it with them and so all those times when previously they would have said “I wish I had a camera” they now have one on their phone.

So I think the 1%, 5% or whatever of people who had a dedicated camera previously still do have them, I just think the majority of folks find their phone good enough - and they are getting very very good I admit. However it will remain that the minority who have a need or want for something special, will spend the money on a dedicated camera. I mean a Ford Focus is a great car, a BMW 3-Series is a great car but for off road rallying or F1 racing or the LeMans 24hr it is not the best choice of tool and so specialist kit for a specialist need will remain. Similarly for taking fast action shots, mirrorless is only just now catching the DSLRs for AF performance.

I dont know if I worded this right or not but basically I think we need to remember to compare like for like - how many serious photographers have ditched their cameras for exclusive use of their phone?

 

[Clix Pix]

I feel like I am the odd one out sometimes. I think back to pre-2007 when the iPhone gen 1 came out with the first proper attempt at a camera.

Up to that point, 99% of people simply didn’t have a camera at all. Cameras were a luxury item that most people in my circles as a child didn’t have the money for. Sure we got a 110 disposable for vacations but to have one of those fancy Nikons or Canons was a special treat.

Then the smartphone arrived and over the years it has become more compelling. However, The demographic of people in the 80s and 90s who had cameras still have dedicated cameras. The demographic has increased to more people being able to afford to have a dedicated camera.

We see articles about 99% of people shoot with a phone. My thoughts on this are that these folks just wouldn’t have had a camera previously. It is not that previously 100% of people had an SLR and chose to switch to just use a phone. I think that photography has actually been made available to more people by commoditising a camera by adding it to their phones - as they always have it with them and so all those times when previously they would have said “I wish I had a camera” they now have one on their phone.

So I think the 1%, 5% or whatever of people who had a dedicated camera previously still do have them, I just think the majority of folks find their phone good enough - and they are getting very very good I admit. However it will remain that the minority who have a need or want for something special, will spend the money on a dedicated camera. I mean a Ford Focus is a great car, a BMW 3-Series is a great car but for off road rallying or F1 racing or the LeMans 24hr it is not the best choice of tool and so specialist kit for a specialist need will remain. Similarly for taking fast action shots, mirrorless is only just now catching the DSLRs for AF performance.

I dont know if I worded this right or not but basically I think we need to remember to compare like for like - how many serious photographers have ditched their cameras for exclusive use of their phone?

Absolutely agree, Kenoh! I still remember vividly that back in 2007 when I bought the first iPhone and mentioned that it did email and went online to the web, and, oh, yeah, had a camera, too, friends snickered and laughed and told me I was nuts for buying "that thing." I shrugged off their comments and watched as they happily pulled out their Blackberry to quickly check their email.....

In those days I was the one who went to gatherings and parties with my trusty camera in hand, and afterwards shared the resulting images with everyone. It was just the way things were. Some of these people had a P&S camera in a drawer at home, which was only pulled out when they went on vacation or took a business trip to somewhere new and interesting. My DSLR went to parties with me and captured the memories for all of us.

After I got the iPhone I still shot primarily with my "real" camera at parties, but occasionally just for fun used the iPhone, too. My friends occasionally posed for the camera, but my favorite images, as always, were the candid shots. A couple of years passed and the iPhone became more and more popular, and now other brands were bringing out their own versions of smartphones. As time went on, we began seeing more smartphones in people's hands and fewer Blackberries....

One spring maybe three years after the iPhone's arrival, there was a birthday celebration for one of my friends and we all got together at a local restaurant. In the car as I was about halfway to the destination I realized that I had actually forgotten my camera, primarily because I was distracted by some bad news about another friend. Too late to go back to retrieve the DSLR. I figured, well, fine, I'd just shoot some photos with the iPhone and that would be that.

After the usual hugs and greetings, I set my iPhone on the table. Conversations were all around, people were enjoying each other's company....and something new was happening. I watched, amused and fascinated, as the friends who had just a few years before laughed about a phone that had a camera in it and did email, too, now pulled out their own iPhones and other smartphones and throughout that birthday celebration had the best time snapping photos of each other, the birthday girl and the event, quickly sending them off to everyone right then and there....

After that, I never bothered taking my "real" camera to parties and gatherings -- there was no need.

 

[jwolf6589]

Absolutely agree, Kenoh! I still remember vividly that back in 2007 when I bought the first iPhone and mentioned that it did email and went online to the web, and, oh, yeah, had a camera, too, friends snickered and laughed and told me I was nuts for buying "that thing." I shrugged off their comments and watched as they happily pulled out their Blackberry to quickly check their email.....

In those days I was the one who went to gatherings and parties with my trusty camera in hand, and afterwards shared the resulting images with everyone. It was just the way things were. Some of these people had a P&S camera in a drawer at home, which was only pulled out when they went on vacation or took a business trip to somewhere new and interesting. My DSLR went to parties with me and captured the memories for all of us.

After I got the iPhone I still shot primarily with my "real" camera at parties, but occasionally just for fun used the iPhone, too. My friends occasionally posed for the camera, but my favorite images, as always, were the candid shots. A couple of years passed and the iPhone became more and more popular, and now other brands were bringing out their own versions of smartphones. As time went on, we began seeing more smartphones in people's hands and fewer Blackberries....

One spring maybe three years after the iPhone's arrival, there was a birthday celebration for one of my friends and we all got together at a local restaurant. In the car as I was about halfway to the destination I realized that I had actually forgotten my camera, primarily because I was distracted by some bad news about another friend. Too late to go back to retrieve the DSLR. I figured, well, fine, I'd just shoot some photos with the iPhone and that would be that.

After the usual hugs and greetings, I set my iPhone on the table. Conversations were all around, people were enjoying each other's company....and something new was happening. I watched, amused and fascinated, as the friends who had just a few years before laughed about a phone that had a camera in it and did email, too, now pulled out their own iPhones and other smartphones and throughout that birthday celebration had the best time snapping photos of each other, the birthday girl and the event, quickly sending them off to everyone right then and there....

After that, I never bothered taking my "real" camera to parties and gatherings -- there was no need.

My first smart phone was a BB in 2009 and boy was I impressed. Comparing to the then iPhone to the blackberry I liked the BB at first because of the keyboard and hated the then bulky iPhone charger port on the iPhone. After a second shot of playing with a iPod Touch I wanted a iPhone and could not wait to get one and get rid of the bulky and slow blackberry. My first iPhone was the 4s which I kept for a long time but boy was I impressed then and still am with the iPhone technology.

 

[jwolf6589]

My mom asked me why I don’t use my iPhone for photos and still use a Canon. I said that I sometimes use it for photos but prefer the Canon.

 

[jwolf6589]

It depends what you are looking for really. I can go get Kodak Color 200 or a reasonable selection of Ilford B&W film nearby in a number of local pharmacies. If I want something a bit more special then yes, I need to order online.

A friend of mine shoots exclusively film and he buys bulk film. He doesn’t load his own, he buys 200 rolls of TRI-X 400 at a time. His wife goes nuts because on vacation his case is usually filled half with film.

When I shoot B&W i tend to try and process it myself at home now.

Nationwide film was available everywhere as well as cassette tapes in those days. These days no because everyone uses phones.

 

[r.harris1]

I see what you did there.

To remove any confusion what I am speaking of is a viable business model for the hobby so it may be enjoyed by millennials & later a quarter century from now.

Apple & Android brands figured that out over a dozen years ago while Canon et all were flat footed.

CIPA 2021 worldwide shipment numbers are below year 2000 numbers.

When smartphone disrupts old tech then old tech needs to find a way to stay relevant to new customers.

I'm the typical customer Canon wants back as I am good to provide them business for half a century more but given their business model isn't to "push" upgrades to me in a frictionless way then odds are they'll have difficulty with others.

When Apple starts including 5G modems into year 2023 Macs odds are my telco will offer it like iPads that are on a 24/36/48 month contract. This will help improve sales of Macs for more people & businesses.

When say a $2,499 MBP 16" can be had for $69.41/month + 5G data on a 36 month contract then odds are it will be more saleable than the same MBP SKU that went on sale on Adorama for $2,199 even when provided a $183.25/month 12 month financing.

Yeah, I wouldn’t see CIPA numbers growing much, and really, probably the opposite. Smartphone makers have in any many ways turned traditional camera makers into companies focused on those with more disposable income or specialist needs/desires, including many professionals. Camera makers don’t really have the beginner’s, casual or generally lower cost, higher volume markets available to them anymore, with some exceptions (I think you pointed these out earlier). Phones are good for most people and a few use them in exceptional ways to produce excellent images and videos.

I’m not the target market looking for small, light or particularly cheap. I’m not the target market for someone looking to replace their camera with a phone. I am, though, the target market for purchasing a high quality, dedicated device for doing just photography, so there’s hope for the camera makers yet.

 

[kenoh]

Nationwide film was available everywhere as well as cassette tapes in those days. These days no because everyone uses phones.

I would say it is more to do with Digital vs Film than film vs Phones. Same as MP3s pretty much killed cassettes

 

[mollyc]

When I shoot B&W i tend to try and process it myself at home now.

when you process at home, how do you digitize? santa brought me some film holders so i can do camera scanning. am looking at negative lab pro to go along with it. have you used it? am actually having film developed this week! at least one, perhaps two rolls.

 

[kenoh]

My mom asked me why I don’t use my iPhone for photos and still use a Canon. I said that I sometimes use it for photos but prefer the Canon.

This is the crux of the argument here. Why do you prefer the Canon? Identify that and you are on the path to understanding why a dedicated camera is still a benefit.

 

[kenoh]

when you process at home, how do you digitize? santa brought me some film holders so i can do camera scanning. am looking at negative lab pro to go along with it. have you used it? am actually having film developed this week! at least one, perhaps two rolls.

I have a cheap LED back lit artists panel that I put the negative on with a piece of glass over it. I then have my Z6 on my tripod positioned straight down onto it - Manfrotto 055 series which has the centre column that can be positioned horizontally. I then frame it up with the Z6, I focus then click.

Then in light room, on the Tone Curve, I take the black point on the bottom left and lift it straight up to top left, then pull the white end of the curve straight down to the bottom right to invert it.

Then I play a game of mangled brain tweaking it - after you used the tone curve to invert it, then all the sliders are used in the opposite direction to that which you would normally use. I.e. to raise the shadows, instead of dragging to the right, you drag to the left. Try it you will see what I mean. Proper brain twister.

 

[mollyc]

I have a cheap LED back lit artists panel that I put the negative on with a piece of glass over it. I then have my Z6 on my tripod positioned straight down onto it - Manfrotto 055 series which has the centre column that can be positioned horizontally. I then frame it up with the Z6, I focus then click.

Then in light room, on the Tone Curve, I take the black point on the bottom left and lift it straight up to top left, then pull the white end of the curve straight down to the bottom right to invert it.

Then I play a game of mangled brain tweaking it - after you used the tone curve to invert it, then all the sliders are used in the opposite direction to that which you would normally use. I.e. to raise the shadows, instead of dragging to the right, you drag to the left. Try it you will see what I mean. Proper brain twister.

no, that totally makes sense, thanks. (it's like how my film camera meters the opposite direction as my digitals.) but flipping the tone curve i wouldn't have thought of to get the negative reversed.

 

[Adarna]

I feel like I am the odd one out sometimes. I think back to pre-2007 when the iPhone gen 1 came out with the first proper attempt at a camera.

Up to that point, 99% of people simply didn’t have a camera at all. Cameras were a luxury item that most people in my circles as a child didn’t have the money for. Sure we got a 110 disposable for vacations but to have one of those fancy Nikons or Canons was a special treat.

Then the smartphone arrived and over the years it has become more compelling. However, The demographic of people in the 80s and 90s who had cameras still have dedicated cameras. The demographic has increased to more people being able to afford to have a dedicated camera.

We see articles about 99% of people shoot with a phone. My thoughts on this are that these folks just wouldn’t have had a camera previously. It is not that previously 100% of people had an SLR and chose to switch to just use a phone. I think that photography has actually been made available to more people by commoditising a camera by adding it to their phones - as they always have it with them and so all those times when previously they would have said “I wish I had a camera” they now have one on their phone.

So I think the 1%, 5% or whatever of people who had a dedicated camera previously still do have them, I just think the majority of folks find their phone good enough - and they are getting very very good I admit. However it will remain that the minority who have a need or want for something special, will spend the money on a dedicated camera. I mean a Ford Focus is a great car, a BMW 3-Series is a great car but for off road rallying or F1 racing or the LeMans 24hr it is not the best choice of tool and so specialist kit for a specialist need will remain. Similarly for taking fast action shots, mirrorless is only just now catching the DSLRs for AF performance.

I dont know if I worded this right or not but basically I think we need to remember to compare like for like - how many serious photographers have ditched their cameras for exclusive use of their phone?

You have a point.

I am looking at this from a business point of view. Will future generations enjoy it the same way you do?

Typical consumer who bought a digital still camera (DSC) from year 2002 to 2012 have little incentive to replace or upgrade to the future model on a schedule as it is not "pushed" to them. They bought these to record a family or work event. They may only replace when the camera cannot be economically repaired or they have spare money to do so actively & not passively.

To any for profit company the longer a person does not upgrade simply means they are not a repeat customer.

This is unlike the pre-iPhone/Android (pre-2007) or iPhone/Android (2007-today) where its on a 12/24/36/48 month contract when the contract's done the carrier will push an offer for the next model. Due to wear and tear you're game to get a new handset.

Now, given that the customer is provided a new iPhone/Android that may be nearly as good, equal or even better than whatever digital still camera they had on hand will they be incentivized to a more modern digital still camera (DSC)? Odds are no. Why? Because utilization increases and they have 1 less thing to carry. The best camera you can ever own is the one with you always... unless you're a working photographer that gets paid for image quality and creativity that are easier to accomplised with DSLR/MILC.

This is why Canon was forced to consolidate their PowerShot line to G Series (larger image sensor for better image quality without resorting to computational photography) and the SX Series (slightly larger image sensor as compared to the iPhone/Android but with optical zoom focal lengths that exceeds any smartphone). All other product lines were ended because the demand was lacking to economically produce them.

Just anecdotal and from my point of view.

I am friends with a Leica and Canon digital camera collector. She was active from as early as 2004 to 2015 with the Leica Q. Within the last 7 years she liquidated all her cameras in favor of the iPhone. Why? Simply because she doesn't want to carry more than a pound of gear with her. The only camera that could do that is the iPhone. She inspired me to start collecting fast L lenses and single digit EOS bodies when they become available.

Another larger sample size... a camera club. From 2004-2015 they were very active in their photography hobby. Lumix, Leica, Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc were all entertained. Although some discrimination was made towards Android/iPhone shooters until 2015. Around that time these people stopped buying DSLRs, MILCs and point and shoots and just focused purchases on Android/iPhone. Same reason given by my Leica/Canon using lady friend... iPhone is a better fit.

Of course working photographers will upgrade on a schedule or when money is came upon. That's part and partial towards their competitive advantage but some couples are asking their friends with iPhones/Androids to take photos for their weddings in conjunction with a hired lensman. Those on a tight budget eschew professionals entirely.

The really serious photographers who do not worry about cashflow tend to have difficulty carrying multi kilograms of gear around with them as the years rolls on. So they look for something lighter.... so they eventually sell off their gear and go iPhone/Android.

Of course bird/wildlife/sports photography will need professional gear. And they drive the market. I was surprised that the latest pro bodies had a mode specific to tracking the eyes of birds & other animals. This signifies to me that this is their target audience. This is Sony's and Canon's implementation.

I've seen very persistent bird watchers who use Swarovski scopes + smartphone adapters + smartphones to take documentary-quality images as they cannot handle the weight or do not have the liquidity to buy our gear. So they wisen up and either sweet talk me into giving them free photos or just steal them from my flicker account then crop out my watermark.

Some years ago I stumbled upon Camera & Imaging Products Association (CIPA)'s market study on who are buying digital still cameras (DSC) and it was essentially working photographers and senior citizens. People in my age bracket are not a large enough market to sell their wares to. My demo will probably depend on an iPhone/Android.

I hope I provide some clarity on what I am trying to say. This topic of P&S/DSLR/MILC vs iPhone/Android have been a talking point to me for nearly 2 decades. My opinion have changed based on the tech available, economics and actual end users I talk to about this.

As for our camera club... they decided to suspend operations as the members either have resigned due to change of hobbies or have died due to old age. We're having difficulty recruiting new members because DSLRs/MILCs have become too expensive relative to its limited utilization as compared to the iPhone/Android. I've retired for over half a decade already. No intention to return. They're still my friends but I prefer using my iPhone.

Below are CIPA numbers from 1999 to 2021. In the years I included what EOS EF body or PowerShot I bought that year. The Kodak DC20 was bought in 1996 and not 1999. I placed it in that later year as more of footnote on what I was using that year.

 

[Adarna]

I’m not the target market looking for small, light or particularly cheap. I’m not the target market for someone looking to replace their camera with a phone. I am, though, the target market for purchasing a high quality, dedicated device for doing just photography, so there’s hope for the camera makers yet.

Are you by a chance a member of https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ ? I was very active from 2005-2015. I do drop by 1x/year to see what's new.

 

[mollyc]

i could never take the kinds of photos i do with a phone.

 

[kenoh]

You have a point. I looking at this from a business point of view. Will future generations enjoy it the same way you do?

Typical consumer who bought a digital still camera (DSC) from year 2002 to 2012 have little incentive to replace or upgrade to the future model on a schedule as it is not "pushed" to them. They bought these to record a family or work event. They may only replace when the camera cannot be economically repaired or they have spare money to do so actively & not passively.

To any for profit company the longer a person does not upgrade simply means they are not a repeat customer.

This is unlike the pre-iPhone/Android (pre-2007) or iPhone/Android (2007-today) where its on a 12/24/36/48 month contract when the contract's done the carrier will push an offer for the next model. Due to wear and tear you're game to get a new handset.

Now, given that the customer is provided a new iPhone/Android that may be nearly as good, equal or even better than whatever digital still camera they had on hand will they be incentivized to a more modern digital still camera (DSC)? Odds are no. Why? Because utilization increases and they have 1 less thing to carry. The best camera you can ever own is the one with you always... unless you're a working photographer that gets paid for image quality and creativity.

This is why Canon was forced to consolidate their PowerShot line to G Series (larger image sensor for better image quality without resorting to computational photography) and the SX Series (slightly larger image sensor as compared to the iPhone/Android but with optical zoom focal lengths that exceeds any smartphone). All other product lines were ended because the demand was lacking to economically produce them.

Just anecdotal and from my point of view. I am friends with a Leica and Canon digital camera collector. She was active from as early as 2004 to 2015 with the Leica Q. Within the last 7 years she liquidated all her cameras in favor of the iPhone. Why? Simply because she doesn't want to carry more than a pound of gear with her. The only camera that could do that is the iPhone. She inspired me to start collecting fast L lenses and single digit EOS bodies when they become available.

Another larger sample size... a camera club. From 2004-2015 they were very active in their photography hobby. Lumix, Leica, Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc were all entertained. Although some discrimination was made towards Android/iPhone shooters until 2015. Around that time these people stopped buying DSLRs, MILCs and point and shoots and just focused purchases on Android/iPhone. Same reason given by my Leica/Canon using lady friend... iPhone is a better fit.

Of course working photographers will upgrade on a schedule or when money is came upon.

The really serious photographers who do not worry about cashflow tend to have difficulty carrying multi kilograms of gear around with them as the years rolls on. So they look for something lighter.... so they eventually sell off their gear and go iPhone/Android.

Of course bird/wildlife/sports photography will need professional gear. And they drive the market. I was surprised that the latest 1-Series bodies had a mode specific to tracking the eyes of birds & other animals. This signifies to me that this is their target audience. This is Sony's and Canon's implementation.

I've seen very persistent bird watchers who use Swarovski scopes + smartphone adapters + smartphones to take documentary-quality images as they cannot handle the weight or do not have the liquidity to buy our gear. So they wisen up and either sweet talk me into giving them free photos or just steal them from my flicker account.

Some years ago I stumbled upon Camera & Imaging Products Association (CIPA)'s market study on who are buying digital still cameras (DSC) and it was essentially working photographers and senior citizens. People in my age bracket are not a large enough market to sell their wares to. My demo will probably depend on an iPhone/Android.

I hope I provide some clarity on what I am trying to say. This topic of P&S/DSLR/MILC vs iPhone/Android have been a talking poitn to me for nearly 2 decades. My opinion have changed based on the tech available, economics and actual end users I talk to about this.

As for our camera club... they decided to suspend operations as the members either have resigned due to change of hobbies or have died due to old age. We're having difficulty recruiting new members because DSLRs/MILCs have become too expensive relative to its limited utilization as compared to the iPhone/Android.

Below are CIPA numbers from 1999 to 2021. In the years I included what EOS EF body or PowerShot I bought that year. The Kodak DC20 was bought in 1996 and not 1999. I placed it in that later year as more of footnote on what I was using that year.

Hmm interesting points raised there. I don’t agree with a number of them but that’s cool. We are allowed to interpret the data as we see fit.

Thanks for making me feel old ?. I have cash flow and many years ahead of me. I have tried a number of camera systems. I have consolidated onto Leica and Nikon with some Sonys for portability when travelling with work - RX100s and an RX1R.

 

[mollyc]

most of us on this board are hobbyists, so trying to justify gear from a business cost perspective makes little sense. the enjoyment my gear brings me cannot be quantified (although my husband keeps me in check ?).

again, if one can afford it and it brings enjoyment, the cost is a secondary concern. i’m not buying gear with the intent to sell it. i’m buying it to use it.

 

[r.harris1]

Are you by a chance a member of https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/ ? I was very active from 2005-2015. I do drop by 1x/year to see what's new.

I’m not a member there. I visit because of a search every now and then.

 

[Adarna]

Hmm interesting points raised there.

Thanks for making me feel old ?. I have cash flow and many years ahead of me. I have tried a number of camera systems. I have consolidated onto Leica and Nikon with some Sonys for portability when travelling with work - RX100s and an RX1R.

My apologies for making you feel that way.

But someone pointed out the iliquid state of young people like myself so it ended up being pushed those market studies.

All my gear are in electric cabinets to provide a climate controlled environment to avoid mold from a high humidity city. I havent used any of them since 2018. Makes me wish I liquidated everything before 2019. Due to pandemic people who could afford it now cannot do so.

 

[kenoh]

My apologies for making you feel that way.

But someone pointed out the iliquid state of young people like myself so it ended up being pushed those market studies.

All my gear are in electric cabinets to provide a climate controlled environment to avoid mold from a high humidity city. I havent used any of them since 2018. Makes me wish I liquidated everything before 2019. Due to pandemic people who could afford it now cannot do so.

I am just messing with you… If you are in your 20s then fair play, I am ancient to you. Lol…

I am lucky, I don’t have to keep dry cabinets for my gear, I am able to maintain humidity without one - thankfully - my wife would kill me if I started buying those.

The Canon Rebels were a turning point for me. The advent of the 350d was the first time I was interested in doing photography it signalled an accessibility to the hobby that I hadn’t previously thought I could. I didn’t dip my toe in the water until the 1100d came about in 2009-ish. It got increasingly expensive very quickly after that.

If you haven’t used any of your equipment since 2018, then yes you should liquidate it and consolidate onto something you will use.