What have you done with a PowerPC today?

[ToniCH]

Hi, I was yesterday at my storage unit and found my old PowerBook 540c. I haven't even seen the machine for 25+ years. I thought it would be nice to see if it still works so I took it home.

When I opened the lid it says PowerPC on top of the screen. I have no recollection if I upgraded it to PPC or not but I cannot see any other reason for that marking to be on the machine. At this point I need to state that I have owned 100+ Macs over the years and upgraded them hundreds or more ways, so I really cannot remember the details on all of them, especially the oldest ones I still have stocked somewhere.

I took the batteries out (I found 3 of them) and plugged it into power. It chimes, the screen comes on, mouse pointer appears on the screen and I can move it with the touchpad. But, then I can only hear sad hard disk noises, it seems like the head moves but the platters do not spin up.

At this time I also realized that I don't have any OS disks with me. I did spot some for Powerbook Duo and PowerMac 6100 at the storage but no general installation disks.

So, now I wonder that what could I replace the hdd with to make it bootable again? Something like BlueSCSI or something? Preferably plug and play solution with a CF or SD card or...?

And now I opened the machine to find it has a 603E 100MHz and a 16MB RAM upgrade in it! What OS disks or images I would need to make a compatible installation to the memory card? Did the PPC upgrades need some special drivers? I think the CPU upgrade is Apple stuff, so maybe not.

Any tips or search terms, video links etc. are most appreciated.

 

[TheShortTimer]

@ToniCH I can't offer much advice on the technical aspects as these types of Macs are not my speciality but I wanted to compliment you on what appears to be an immaculate 540c and hope that you get it up and running again.

As for the BlueSCSI, I use a ZuluSCSI with my Macintosh SE and it boots and runs stuff in seconds.

 

[jktwice]

And now I opened the machine to find it has a 603E 100MHz and a 16MB RAM upgrade in it! What OS disks or images I would need to make a compatible installation to the memory card? Did the PPC upgrades need some special drivers? I think the CPU upgrade is Apple stuff, so maybe not.

I don't think it does? At least from what I'm reading online and seeing from the Action Retro video. His nuPowr upgrade didn't have the control panel with it but it booted Mac OS 8/System 7 just fine.

If you want to be safer than sorry you can always install Mac OS 8.1 or something like that, but you will need a working CD drive and will need to plug it into your PowerBook somehow.

 

[ToniCH]

As for the BlueSCSI, I use a ZuluSCSI with my Macintosh SE and it boots and runs stuff in seconds.

Thanks, I'll take a look at that one too. I also have some other oldies I would like to get operational at some stage and its more than likely most SCSI drives I have are dead by now.

I don't think it does? At least from what I'm reading online and seeing from the Action Retro video. His nuPowr upgrade didn't have the control panel with it but it booted Mac OS 8/System 7 just fine.

If you want to be safer than sorry you can always install Mac OS 8.1 or something like that, but you will need a working CD drive and will need to plug it into your PowerBook somehow.

I also watched Action Retros video and he said that Apple even sold these 500-series with PPC upgrade installed in the end. And I think he also said they offered upgrades beforehand and the machines originally even came with red PPC Ready stickers, which I remember seeing myself.

But, I am hoping no drivers are needed.

I do have an external SCSI CD-drive somewhere in my boxes of computer stuff. Maybe I'll need to locate it if I cannot get working diskette set from somewhere.

One thing I am wondering: how do I format the memory card? Does OS 7/8 installer know how to do it?

 

[TheShortTimer]

One thing I am wondering: how do I format the memory card? Does OS 7/8 installer know how to do it?

Which memory card are you referring to, the SD card that you'll use with the SCSI card reader? If so, I formatted a MicroSD card using an Intel Mac IIRC to FAT32, downloaded a ready made image from the Internet Archive that contained everything I needed (for System 6) and copied it onto the SD card, where I changed the image's file extension from .VHD to .HDA and renamed the image "HD1.HDA."

From there, it just auto-booted.

 

[ToniCH]

Which memory card are you referring to, the SD card that you'll use with the SCSI card reader?

Yes, that one.

If so, I formatted a MicroSD card using an Intel Mac IIRC to FAT32, downloaded a ready made image from the Internet Archive that contained everything I needed (for System 6) and copied it onto the SD card, where I changed the image's file extension from .VHD to .HDA and renamed the image "HD1.HDA."

From there, it just auto-booted.

Ok. this is the info I was looking for. Thanks!

 

[TheShortTimer]

Ok. this is the info I was looking for. Thanks!

You're welcome. I found it much easier to download a pre-made image as they come with everything that you'd want - productivity, utilities and games than to go down the route of using an emulator to prepare one and then after that, dig around for the software that I want to run.

If you run into any problems, let me know and I'll see what I can do to help.

 

[ToniCH]

Yes, you are right - ready made image with most stuff I would want or need is the way to go. It's not like I will use this machine for any actual work in the end. It would just be very cool to see it work again. 👍

 

[ToniCH]

Well, I have one of these somewhere. I guess I need to go through my vintage stuff parts boxes!

Ps. "Tested by our professional technician". I would like to ask the Japanese seller for a pic with the 500-series machine and the PCMCIA box with date for proof of testing it. Maybe they have one or maybe not.

Ps2. it seems that I have to order a CMOS battery from somewhere. One video stated that bad battery could cause non boot and other weirdness. It seems to be 2 3V coin cells in series and a suitable connector. Could be made by myself but if I can find a ready made it would be one less project for me. But, I should buy a spot welder for such projects some day, would make everything easier.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Ps2. it seems that I have to order a CMOS battery from somewhere. One video stated that bad battery could cause non boot and other weirdness. It seems to be 2 3V coin cells in series and a suitable connector. Could be made by myself but if I can find a ready made it would be one less project for me. But, I should buy a spot welder for such projects some day, would make everything easier.

Here's the coin cell holder that I installed on my Sega Dreamcast to replace its soldered-in CMOS battery (why did you do that, Sega? Why?) allowing it to use a replaceable ML2032:

If the batteries are present on the motherboard two in a row then a couple of these should sort you out. I bought mine from Amazon UK but they're available from a variety of places - unless Apple used some non-standard arrangement... You could test the current batteries with a multi-meter to confirm their operational status.

 

[ToniCH]

If the batteries are present on the motherboard two in a row then a couple of these should sort you out. I bought mine from Amazon UK but they're available from a variety of places - unless Apple used some non-standard arrangement... You could test the current batteries with a multi-meter to confirm their operational status.

I think this is the one. I could of course take the original and transfer the wiring to a pair of new batteries and then shrink wrap the whole thing. I am sure the originals are dead after 30 years. And in any case they are located in such a place that after I open all of that (fragile plastics) I will surely install a new pair.

 

[mac57mac57]

Today I installed a new Cubilux 4:1 audio (mini) mixer, allowing me to add the sound output of my G5 Air Quad to the existing sound output of my Mac Studio, feeding both into the input of my vintage Logitech speaker and subwoofer set (which has exactly one audio input).

So... into that one input I wanted to plug the sound outputs of both my G5 Air Quad and my Mac Studio. The solution? Wire the audio outputs of both computers to inputs on the Cubilux mixer. Then wire the output of the mixer to the input of the Logitech speaker/subwoofer set. Power for the mixer? It takes it from almost any USB plug, including one of the ones on the back of the G5 Air Quad - this is where mine is getting its power. Result? Perfect! Both computers now deliver robust high-quality sound.

The Cubilux (mini) mixer really is "mini"! In the photo below, you can see it sitting on top of the G-Tech Q-Drive I have sitting on top of my G5 Air Quad. This photo gives a good impression of just how compact this mixer really is:

Of course, none of this would be of any value if it doesn't work cleanly, but it does, and with no audible hum, noise, distortion, etc.

The lack of audio distortion is the result of setting all amplifiers to run near their 50% output level. This keeps them running in their linear gain zone. The result of this is clean, distortion-free output sound. Which amplifiers am I talking about? The ones on each Cubilux input (the unused inputs are set to zero gain, to stop them from adding amplified noise), the "Volume" one on the Logitech speaker/subwoofer set and finally the output level settings on each of the two computers.

The result is just the right sound level from each computer, which is however easily adjusted up or down using the Sound control panel functionality of each computer.

Interested in getting a Cubilux mini mixer for your setup? You can get them on Amazon:

To my mind at least, the price is quite reasonable.

I should state for the record that I have no affiliation whatsoever with Cubilux - I just a satisfied customer!

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Today I installed a new Cubilux 4:1 audio (mini) mixer, allowing me to add the sound output of my G5 Air Quad to the existing sound output of my Mac Studio, feeding both into the input of my vintage Logitech speaker and subwoofer set (which has exactly one audio input).

So... into that one input I wanted to plug the sound outputs of both my G5 Air Quad and my Mac Studio. The solution? Wire the audio outputs of both computers to inputs on the Cubilux mixer. Then wire the output of the mixer to the input of the Logitech speaker/subwoofer set. Power for the mixer? It takes it from almost any USB plug, including one of the ones on the back of the G5 Air Quad - this is where mine is getting its power. Result? Perfect! Both computers now deliver robust high-quality sound.

The Cubilux (mini) mixer really is "mini"! In the photo below, you can see it sitting on top of the G-Tech Q-Drive I have sitting on top of my G5 Air Quad. This photo gives a good impression of just how compact this mixer really is:

View attachment 2566293

Of course, none of this would be of any value if it doesn't work cleanly, but it does, and with no audible hum, noise, distortion, etc.

The lack of audio distortion is the result of setting all amplifiers to run near their 50% output level. This keeps them running in their linear gain zone. The result of this is clean, distortion-free output sound. Which amplifiers am I talking about? The ones on each Cubilux input (the unused inputs are set to zero gain, to stop them from adding amplified noise), the "Volume" one on the Logitech speaker/subwoofer set and finally the output level settings on each of the two computers.

The result is just the right sound level from each computer, which is however easily adjusted up or down using the Sound control panel functionality of each computer.

Interested in getting a Cubilux mini mixer for your setup? You can get them on Amazon:

View attachment 2566294

To my mind at least, the price is quite reasonable.

I should state for the record that I have no affiliation whatsoever with Cubilux - I just a satisfied customer!

Too bad some or all of the inputs are not 6.35mm for a standard musical instrument cable. I know they show in the advert plugging electric instruments direct in but as it is 3.5mm there would need to be something in between for that application to occur. I mean I guess one could buy a 3.55 to 6.35 cable for that purpose but we typically already own expensive & high quality insulated cables for playing so it’s annoying to have to buy an adapter or additional cable. Anyways, pedantic observations aside (lol) that is a neat bit of small kit nonetheless and for a decent price.

 

[Doq]

Speaking of Quads, I fired mine up for its first run since the heat season now that that's over. Just doing maintenance and updates and whatnot. I had pillaged the SSD that had Adelie Linux on it in order to upgrade my XP-era Stereo PC since my music library was too large for the stock drive and I had to sync my nuggets to something so it's now just Leopard only, least until I decide to throw another drive at it. Or so I thought....

Anyway, it didn't boot. Into anything. Nothing on the boot picker, nothing from Open Firmware. So I'm thinking "okay, lemme boot into a boot cd and see what's going on" except I can't find any but about a small portion of my boot media. So I had to go out of my way to burn another boot disc of some variety (I went with Adelie Linux).

Disk popped up, even ls'd alright, to which I discovered that the disk is Linux-structured. Leopard was on the SSD I pillaged. So I actually just have Linux on here (probably Adelie), but I couldn't get Open Firmware to see or boot it. Trying a few other things like ofboot.b didn't net much, only this cryptic can't OPEN: hd:,\\:tbxi (I wasn't trying tbxi, so I don't know where that's coming from).

I stopped there because I'd've lost my mind otherwise. I'll come back to it another time.

 

[mac57mac57]

Too bad some or all of the inputs are not 6.35mm for a standard musical instrument cable.

Actually, @Certificate of Excellence, Cubilux does make a version of this mixer with 6.35mm inputs. I am not aware of any version that has both 3.5 mm and 6.35 mm inputs, but you can pick one of the other.

 

[mac57mac57]

I stopped there because I'd've lost my mind otherwise. I'll come back to it another time.

Hello Doq! I owe you a PM - I haven't forgotten.

However... in this case, you know the drill... Boot Picker, in my experience, has no ability to "see" ext4 file systems, and so I doubt you will ever be able to boot what you have left. Another HDD or SSD would seem to be in order, plus a reinstall of Tiger, Leopard or Sorbet on that new drive. From there, you can upgrade to Snow Leopard PPC (SL_PPC) if you are feeling brave, or Sorbet if your risk tolerance is a bit lower. Tiger is always a good choice as well.

Of course, you can also just wipe the current HDD and reload, again with Tiger or Leopard, followed by upgrades to SL_PPC or Sorbet.

 

[WebHead]

I wish Windows and OS/2 had been released for PPC as planned. Not because I preferred them, just cos I'm a geek.

Nowadays I wish for ARM Windows to run on M-series Macs! (Not just in virtualisation)

 

[DCBassman]

Ok, today while preparing for another stay away, my attention was caught and held by the Powerbooks. Dragged them out, put the 17 in TDM, and am restoring Leopard to it from the 12, replacing a failed attempt at Sorbet Leopard.
What I am really thinking about during this process is what can I realistically do with either? The A1104 12" is my favourite of the two. Remember, I have no actual use case for any computer I own, bar the Celeron netbook. Two big Windows desktops and a 2017 iMac are for general use, impossibly over-gunned for the task.
Maybe if I could get a safe email program for the 12, I could convert my business docs into Pages format and use it instead of the netbook...that would be nice!

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Actually, @Certificate of Excellence, Cubilux does make a version of this mixer with 6.35mm inputs. I am not aware of any version that has both 3.5 mm and 6.35 mm inputs, but you can pick one of the other.

Well, to be clear, I didn’t say they did not make one. I did see that they made a separate 6.35mm unit while looking to see if they made/offered a headphone amp as well. My criticism was that they marketed the 3.5mm unit that you purchased as one for DI electric instruments which 3.5mm is not the standard for.

With that being said, I think it is a nice piece of kit in size and price and similar to what I’ve employed in my own set up although for me, I was routing a single machine to multiple sets of powered monitors through a FW audio interface.

I would have liked to see a pass through interface with both 3.5 & 6.35 I/o even if it was a few dollars more. Who knows maybe they will see this thread and make one

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Ok, today while preparing for another stay away, my attention was caught and held by the Powerbooks. Dragged them out, put the 17 in TDM, and am restoring Leopard to it from the 12, replacing a failed attempt at Sorbet Leopard.
What I am really thinking about during thos process is what can I realistically do with either? The A1104 12" is my favourite of the two. Remember, I have no actual use case for any computer I own, bar the Celeron netbook. Two big Windows desktops and a 2017 iMac are for general use, impossibly over-gunned for the task.
Maybe if I could get a safe email program for the 12, I could convert my business docs into Pages format and use it instead of the netbook...that would be nice!

I just look at them. Not being facetious, I’m in the same boat. I take their batteries out and look at them. My 12” died but my 17” is chugging along yet I don’t have a use for it either. I used to use it for importing and adjusting photos from my older TOTC SLR cameras but have since shifted that duty to my cMP 1,1. One could use it as a TDM box for pushing fresh tiger or leopard images to new PowerPC boxes but I already have a g4 mini which I use that for (also doubles as a book end).

If your book shelf is big enough, one can use these laptops as display piece/ and book end to hold up your books. Some mild & enjoyable irony there as well, especially if your books have any age in them

 

[DCBassman]

I just look at them. Not being facetious, I’m in the same boat. I take their batteries out and look at them. My 12” died but my 17” is chugging along yet I don’t have a use for it either. I used to use it for importing and adjusting photos from my older TOTC SLR cameras but have since shifted that duty to my cMP 1,1. One could use it as a TDM box for pushing fresh tiger or leopard images to new PowerPC boxes but I already have a g4 mini which I use that for (also doubles as a book end).

If your book shelf is big enough, one can use these laptops as display piece/ and book end to hold up your books. Some mild & enjoyable irony there as well, especially if your books have any age in them

I like your thinking, but cannot deal with that sort of bookend, even if I had the space...
TDM transfer eventually succeeded, so the A1107 is running leopard, although i have to say that it doesn't seem greatly faster than the 12, despite the greater spec.

 

[DCBassman]

OK, at the house sit. Have spent the afternoon on the G4 12", attempting to make it the default machine for my small business. So, Aquafox 3, and Office 2008, which includes Entourage for email. I'd never heard of Entourage before today, but noticed while searching Macrumors for a PPC mail client. Thanks @eyoungren !
I'm typing this on the machine. Browser performance is...languid. But before I get too critical, this is still a stock machine, barring RAM, running on an 80GB 5400rpm spinner. I imagine it would be a tad less languid with an SSD, but unlike the A1107 17", it's a reallly evil disassembly to upgrade. So I'll wait until I absolutely have no choice. The Celeron netbook becomes the backup business machine.
What have I done with a PowerPC today? Found a way to actually use one!

 

[eyoungren]

OK, at the house sit. Have spent the afternoon on the G4 12", attempting to make it the default machine for my small business. So, Aquafox 3, and Office 2008, which includes Entourage for email. I'd never heard of Entourage before today, but noticed while searching Macrumors for a PPC mail client. Thanks @eyoungren !
I'm typing this on the machine. Browser performance is...languid. But before I get too critical, this is still a stock machine, barring RAM, running on an 80GB 5400rpm spinner. I imagine it would be a tad less languid with an SSD, but unlike the A1107 17", it's a reallly evil disassembly to upgrade. So I'll wait until I absolutely have no choice. The Celeron netbook becomes the backup business machine.
What have I done with a PowerPC today? Found a way to actually use one!

You may find that Office 2004 or Office X suits your needs better as far as performance. With Office X, however, there is an external package (not sure if it's still on Microsoft's site) you'll need to install for compatibility with .docx, .xlsx and .pptx. My concern here however, would be Entourage X and it's ability to work with more modern security protocols. The last time I tried using Entourage 2008 on my 17" PowerBook, there were problems with accounts and 2008 is much newer. That may just have been down to my particular accounts and situation though, IDK.

Entourage is great however, and I have used it or some MS derivative since 1999. I blame that on my first job where IT had some sort of MS mail app installed in OS9. At the time, I'd only known webmail (Yahoo), so using a dedicated app for email was a novel idea for me. I just stuck with MS after that. Currently using Outlook 2019 for Mac for my work email.

PS. It was called Entourage to distinguish it from Outlook, which at the time was PC only. For a time, Microsoft was shipping Office for Mac in even years. That lasted until 2011 when Office 2011 was offered for both PC and Mac. That's also when they renamed Entourage to Outlook. On OS9, it used to be Outlook Express and I used that for years on OS9 work Macs.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

OK, at the house sit. Have spent the afternoon on the G4 12", attempting to make it the default machine for my small business. So, Aquafox 3, and Office 2008, which includes Entourage for email. I'd never heard of Entourage before today, but noticed while searching Macrumors for a PPC mail client. Thanks @eyoungren !
I'm typing this on the machine. Browser performance is...languid. But before I get too critical, this is still a stock machine, barring RAM, running on an 80GB 5400rpm spinner. I imagine it would be a tad less languid with an SSD, but unlike the A1107 17", it's a reallly evil disassembly to upgrade. So I'll wait until I absolutely have no choice. The Celeron netbook becomes the backup business machine.
What have I done with a PowerPC today? Found a way to actually use one!

I killed a pbg4 12 attempting a ssd upgrade. It was a very sad day. I was attempting to remove the power lead and in doing so, successfully pulled the pins off the logic board rendering it useless. There is actually a warning on the ifixit disassembly steps about this possibility. I still have the carcass lol for parts I guess.

 

[MarkC426]

I killed a pbg4 12 attempting a ssd upgrade. It was a very sad day. I was attempting to remove the power lead and in doing so, successfully pulled the pins off the logic board rendering it useless. There is actually a warning on the ifixit disassembly steps about this possibility. I still have the carcass lol for parts I guess.

Fortunately my G4PB12” upgrade went seamlessly, using the ifixit guide (and very welcome help from peeps on this forum)….. 😁. My HDD had died after non-use for many years, so it needed doing to resurrect it.