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What have you done with an early Intel recently?
- Thread starter Project Alice
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Ultimately, it is not. The broadcom chipset used in Macs is also proprietary. No source code released to the public. All that’s available is a binary blob, that again needs a “work-a-round” to get working. So yeah, you CAN blame Apple again.
These chipsets are proprietary:
BCM4311, BCM4312, BCM4321, BCM4322, BCM43227, BCM43228, BCM43142, BCM4331, BCM4352, BCM4360
These have source code: BCM4313, BCM43224, BCM43225 and should work out of the box on Linux.
For end users perspective, having to download Wi-Fi driver via terminal is deal breaker. I certainly tried all kinds of tutorials, spent hours trying to install Wi-Fi driver's. I end up using USB tethering from my Android phone to access internet.
3 hours after installing Linux on 2009 MacBook Pro, I reverted back to macOS.
All good points...and each a reason for me to avoid Linux unless you're a nerd (not in a bad way, I'm a nerd about other things) who has lot's of free time to figure this stuff out. And, yes, I absolutely expect an operating system that I install to work out of the box on my hardware that is listed on the distributions website as being supported, I absolutely expect that (otherwise please don't list it). Linux distributions websites LOVE the old "bait and switch" where they "pretend" that they work out of the box flawlessly on your Mac...they will gladly list it as supported...trickery, trickery, trickery though..after the initial install is when all the "surprises" begin. No working Wi-Fi (better hope you have a USB to Ethernet adapter laying around), non functioning built in camera, your awesome track pad now works like it's covered with peanut butter and is sluggish as hell, the screen resolutions are all screwed up and the text is ultra tiny. Oh yeah, and it's all YOUR fault for having the audacity of trying to install this on a Mac when you try and contact the distribution help. You were supposed to install this on an old Dell laptop, everyone knows that!Why don't you tell the "Dudes" to care more instead of complaining here where they're quite unlikely to notice it?And sorry to disagree, but problems that can't be attributed to Linux itself can't give it a bad name:
The issue is the proprietary firmware the chipset needs to work. Distros include the tools to get it, some may even include it.
You want everything to automatically work OOTB on your Macs without ever using the terminal? There is one distro that suits your needs perfectly. It's called macOS.
I'm, obviously being a little (not too much though) tongue & cheek about this and seriously hope that someday at least one Linux distribution can get their s**t together so I can try it out. Looks fun but still not very inviting.
Thanks again for the link, I'll try the web cam driver when I get a chance!
By law they can’t include proprietary drivers. That’s the issue with “proprietary” software/drivers/etc. Had Apple chosen a different brand for wifi this wouldn’t be an issue. Same for their iSight. Apple could have chosen a standard run of the mill web cam, but Apple being Apple didn’t.
Remember, Apple didn’t plan on people running Linux on their hardware, so naturally why would they go out of their way to change hardware to support it? The fact that the “work-a-rounds” even work is due to dedicated hackers finding ways around it. Without them Linux wouldn’t be supported at all on Apple hardware. Also look at BootCamp. Without the bootcamp drivers supplied by Apple, even Windows wouldn’t work 100% out of the box. So again… Yes.. BLAME APPLE.
Now if you have an actual “PC”, 99% of all Linux distros work out of the box because most PC’s don't use proprietary hardware.
My old distro of choice was Zorin 15.3 Lite, which was the last Zorin release to have a 32-bit version. I'd love to try out MX Xfce if its more up to date. (And I'd love to try out Mate with Cupertino too.)
With the exception of elementary OS, none of the major mainstream Linux distros offer any explicit promises of working on a Mac flawlessly out of the box. They do offer tutorials on how to install them, and a given Mac may meet their minimum or recommended system requirements, but that's as far as they go.
Why should that be a surprise to anyone? At this point, we all know how fond Apple is of proprietary hardware on their computers, to the point where even their implementation of many industry standards ended up being very proprietary. All of that is antithetical to the FOSS philosophy of Linux.
Apple neither planned nor intended for any of their Macs to run Linux. Why is that the fault of Linux developers?
I would even say: Apple designs intentionally their hardware to prevent users using it outside their walled garden.
You have to use it the way Apple wants (and even to stop using it, when Apple wants you to buy another one...).
They made reluctantly BootCamp because their OS was lacking what many users had to use else preventing them to buy. But they carefully designed the BC drivers to perform worse than they could.
Which version of Linux were you installing? I installed Ubuntu 24.04 on a 2012 iMac earlier this week and the graphical installer gave me the option to install proprietary third party drivers, e.g., for WiFi, automatically. The whole installation took a few minutes from start to finish and everything just worked. Sure, not everyone might want to run Ubuntu, but it was no harder to set up than macOS or Windows. I realize that different hardware might be more difficult to deal with, but in my experience Ubuntu has always worked well with Macs.
I would even wish that Windows and macOS would get a such user friendly and super-fast installer like Ubuntu has.
It installed in 8 minutes while showing a nice tutorial of all features. Then it booted directly into the finished system including office apps ready to use.
Excepted the crappy Apple's iSight camera, on a Macbook 2008, everything ran OoB if you tick the option to "install proprietary drivers" too.
Compared to that, installing MacOS on older Macs is a real pain: you get a non informative and cheating progress bar, that stays twenty minutes frozen at 98% and needing five reboots, taking more than 40 minutes unless you get a boring sequence of mandatory settings requiring 2FA validation and you have to install office apps one by one before you begin being productive.
Overall, you need around 90 minutes until you get something half-way usable.
And then, you have to correct some completely absurd Apple's defaults like e.g. telling macOS that you really, really want to use the right button of your mouse / trackpad and you want the finder to unhide disks and show files like they should, etc...
Apple used to be user friendly and Linux was something for geeks. That isn't true any more.
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This. One of the few things I dislike about Linux is that, between distros, there are so many different ways to do the same job. You might know well how do a thing in MX, but doing that same thing in Pop! OS is entirely different. This even applied to distros built on the same foundations! But on the whole, it just works.
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Linux is basically a kernel. The graphical user interface and the repositories are specific to the distributions.
If you stick to one distribution, everything is consistent.
Yeah..... about that...... I paid money for the ISO of the latest version of Elementary OS (since they charge for their version of Linux) because I thought it might be the answer.....and no matter how many copies of the ISO I downloaded from the official website the program "balenaEtcher" said "Corrupt ISO, can't open".
Nice.
I then attempted to contact the "help" at Elementary OS to try and find another copy and as expected....never a reply.
🤨
Well, back to the drawing board.
Although I haven't attempted to download another copy in the last couple of months so they "probably" have it sorted out and I can try again. Who knows maybe you're right and they are the ones who have Macs figured out. I'll give it a shot again soon and report back if I can get it to work!!
I hope so!
🤪
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I've had really bad experiences (ie. errors and failures) with the Balena Etcher in the past and finally stopped using it all together. Now for couple of years I use Raspberry Pi Imager every time I can. It just works. Choose "Use custom" when doing other non Rpi related Linux distros. Only very rarely I've had to use other sw to make bootable USB installers.Yeah..... about that...... I paid money for the ISO of the latest version of Elementary OS (since they charge for their version of Linux) because I thought it might be the answer.....and no matter how many copies of the ISO I downloaded from the official website the program "balenaEtcher" said "Corrupt ISO, can't open".
Nice.
I then attempted to contact the "help" at Elementary OS to try and find another copy and as expected....never a reply.
🤨
Well, back to the drawing board.
Although I haven't attempted to download another copy in the last couple of months so they "probably" have it sorted out and I can try again. Who knows maybe you're right and they are the ones who have Macs figured out. I'll give it a shot again soon and report back if I can get it to work!!
I hope so!
🤪
Inspired by the discussions about Linux on Macs I also tried installing Ubuntu on my 2010 MacBook. Runs pretty well and all of the drivers installed automatically just fine. Even the webcam works like normal.
Today's haul…
3x 30" Cinema Displays, one which has the VESA adapter (and the stand) and one in the actual box. 1x MacPro, no idea what model or year yet and a box of parts. Will have to go through all of this to see what I have.
Also, 1x 27" 2012 or 2013 iMac. That one went to my son.
3x 30" Cinema Displays, one which has the VESA adapter (and the stand) and one in the actual box. 1x MacPro, no idea what model or year yet and a box of parts. Will have to go through all of this to see what I have.
Also, 1x 27" 2012 or 2013 iMac. That one went to my son.
Wowza. So are you going to be running five 30"s from now on?
Imagine the possibilities!Wowza. So are you going to be running five 30"s from now on?
And the consequences.
Yes. The other three will be replaced. I just have NO idea when I am going to get to it. Don't have a lot of time to mess with things today before getting some sleep…because work in the morning. And I can't mess around too much because the currently hooked up Cinema Displays (30") are also attached to the work Mac. So I don't need things in pieces because I won't be able to work.Wowza. So are you going to be running five 30"s from now on?
But yeah, that was the idea all along. Just it took a while to happen. I know my two video cards will drive all five though, so there's that.
Looks like I got an earlier version of what I already have (a MacPro 4,1). This Mac though has a 2.93 processor, whereas the MP I am typing this in on is 2.66 (upgraded via firmware to a MP 5,1). Both A1289, Early 2009 model.
New Mac: March 2009
This Mac: July 2009.
No drives (not surprising), but I am missing a sled. Will have to see if that's in the box of parts or not. Bent handle of course. It did come with 64GB ram. Not sure what I'm going to find when I boot it though. This Mac may go out in the garage after I futz with the handle.
New Mac: March 2009
This Mac: July 2009.
No drives (not surprising), but I am missing a sled. Will have to see if that's in the box of parts or not. Bent handle of course. It did come with 64GB ram. Not sure what I'm going to find when I boot it though. This Mac may go out in the garage after I futz with the handle.
I will actually be downsizing from the vertical TV I have, which is 2160x4096 pixels. However, since that HDTV has a blue cast to it I don't really used it much so I guess I will be gaining something, LOL.
You'll just need an AC unit specifically for your desk.
You might want to list the outputs your cards have so I...uh... we can make sure
You'll need either a (mini)DisplayPort-plus-A1306 or a straight dual-link DVI for each 30". HDMI is no good because there's no HDMI-to-DL-DVI adapter, at least not to my knowledge.
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