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orionquest

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Mar 16, 2022
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The Great White North
What if the next Mac Pro is just another intel Mac with an updated Intel CPU?
Didn't Apple state something when they introduced the AS chips that they still would have some intel Mac's to introduce.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
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What if the next Mac Pro is just another intel Mac with an updated Intel CPU?
Didn't Apple state something when they introduced the AS chips that they still would have some intel Mac's to introduce.

There was a decent chance that in their 2019-era plans that was true. There is also a decent chance that plan was 'blown up' by circumstances outside of Apple's control.

Apple released an updated Intel iMac in July 2020 after they said more Intel Macs coming. If that was by 'unit sold' that is true. If 'Macs' meant multiple products then that hasn't turned out.

Pre-pandemic the Intel Xeon W3300 series ( Ice lake ) was to be released in 2021. That would have made sense. Those are the same base die as the (Xeon SP Gen 3 ( Ice Lake) that appeared as a Xcode parameter). Timing wise Apple released "a quarter" of an update:


If there were high volume W3300 units available in August 2021 then it would have made lots of sense to release a Mac Pro W3300 system in either July or November ( either side of the macOS Fall major update release ).

Turns out that only the more boutique workstation vendors like Boxx, Pudget Sound , Velocity Micro, etc. have been selling W3000 units when ordered (and "just in time" filled to ship. generally wait for orders). However, the major players ( HP , Dell , Lenovo) have skipped it. Apple is not an "oddball" here among the more well know, high visibility workstation vendors.

Covid-19 contributed to screwing it up. Second, W3300 runs way hotter than probably Apple likes it to. It has a top end model that goes past macOS's 64 thread limit. And unless can really tap into the AVX-512 subsystem ( and AI/ML inference instructions ) there isn't much of a big win CPU performance wise. Its main upsides would be that Intel got rid of the hefty ">1TB RAM tax". Also that the PCI-e lanes are v4 ( so not kneecapping the performance of the W6000 series MPX modules when it comes to long sustained bulk data transfers (e.g., Afterburner decodes). )

Third TSMC N3 slid out of 2022 and into 2023. [ Pretty good chance Apple thought they would have a "Mac Pro" super mega SoC by 2022 and that may not make it now. ]

The other workstation competitive wise is that AMD has held the Threadripper W5000 Pro series back. ( Both Intel and AMD are more busy sending their respective dies into the Xeon SP / Epyc markets at higher margins than the workstation SKUs. )

At this point, doing a W3300 upgrade is more doubtful. It is pretty close to Intel's SP gen 4 ( Sapphire Rapids) and AMD Epyc 7xxx4 (Zen 4 Genoa ) . So the large bulk of the workstation vendors Dell, HP, Lenovo are pretty likely to just skip W3300 altogether. ( AMD has Threadripper Pro and Intel Gen 12 "workstation" chips before the next gen Gen 4 Xeon and Epyc trickle down to workstation models in mid 2023 )
At about half way through a 2 year transition another Intel update would have made sense. So finish last Intel models in early-2021 (on 2019 era plan) and map them all out by end of 2022. [ e.g., MP 2010 -> 2013 3 years. Otherwise, can imitate the MP 2013 ( ending in 2019) Rip van Winkle mode. ]

Doing a W3300 system at this point would be an even bigger "dead ender socket and platform" than the Mac Pro 2019 was in late 2019. Both Intel and AMD are already publicly "sneak peaking" the next generation stuff. A 'new' Intel system 2 years after they said their were going to transition the Mac system over in 2 years would look bad. I suspect even if they have already paid for the W3300 R&D that they'd rather just 'eat it' than have to publicly tap dance around why that wasn't a transition 'fail'.

AMD is about to release some RNDA2 upgrades in May. If Apple threw some MPX module upgrades at the 2019 model in September or so that might be just it. It is cheaper for them to do, but has some symbolism.

At the literal two year mark, it does more for Apple to have a less competitive Intel Mac Pro to compete against the strengthens of a Mac Studio and maybe a "half sized" Mac Pro with a few slots. If the updated Intel Mac Pro could have arrived before the Mac Studio that would have worked better.
 
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Xiao_Xi

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2021
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What if the next Mac Pro is just another intel Mac with an updated Intel CPU?
If an ARM-based Mac Pro wasn't good enough, wouldn't Apple be better off not releasing any ARM-based Mac Pro instead of an Intel-based Mac Pro?
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
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Stargate Command
WWDC 2022, Apple releases new M2 Mac mini and M2 Extreme Mac Pro headless desktops...

Phil Schiller meme'ed AF with the "Can't innovate my a$$." quote...
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
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WWDC 2022, Apple releases new M2 Mac mini and M2 Extreme Mac Pro headless desktops...

Probably not . Back in February.


Of which one of the top rated comments is:
" ...
Well, there actually is some small info on the computers.
One of them (A2681) is said to be a "portable personal computer" (read "laptop"), and other two are just "personal computers" (read "desktop"). ..."


One desktop got released (open for orders and shipping) in March; Mac Studio. So only got one desktop left. Which is more likely a M2 Mini. (e.g. new Mini model ID in Studio display firmware. )

Apple might 'reveal' ( 'sneak peek' ) as Mac Pro , but release it? Probably not . More likely would claim to possibly ship it by end of 2022 coupled to explaining that "about two years" included elements of the second half of 2022.


Phil Schiller meme'ed AF with the "Can't innovate my a$$." quote...

We'll see.
 
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deconstruct60

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Mar 10, 2009
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If an ARM-based Mac Pro wasn't good enough, wouldn't Apple be better off not releasing any ARM-based Mac Pro instead of an Intel-based Mac Pro?

THe primary objective is to finish off the transition to M-series. So how do they declare "finshed" if have nothing in the "Mac Pro " product segment category. Note they have claimed they have finished the Mini ( even though there is still a Intel model in the lineup). And have finished the iMac 27" with the Studio Mac + Studio Display.

If they hold back the M-series Mac Pro that comes up 'short' ( half sized ) then how do they tap dance around failing to close the transition?

If suggesting that they "hold back" a half-sized Mac Pro to 'save' an Intel Mac Pro from being too cannibalized , then probably not. There is probably enough market segmentation for the Intel Mac Pro to hold onto the hyper-modular user base. And enough folks who just need a couple of normal slots that are OK with a locked down SoC that has a longer term future of being in synch with where macOS ecosystem is going.

If that "left over " Intel space is too small a user base then it is the Intel system that would get axed; not the m-series one.

It is probably going to be impossible to make most of the hyper-modular folks happy. This would be the last Intel Mac . Killing a working , functional M-series system because some folks want to keep an Intel GPU-less CPU package option around "forever" ... that runs opposite of Apple's explicitly stated plan.
 
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Apple Knowledge Navigator

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Mar 28, 2010
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There's the possibility that this new Mac Pro has an Apple silicon chip that is designed almost exclusively around the CPU and neural engine - a real workhorse. I believe this could be the case because many users are CPU rather than GPU reliant, particularly in coding, science and engineering. Apple could pack a lot of cores in that die area with the GPU ones taken away.

Users could continue to use MPX/graphics cards and RAM of their choice, this being the opposite of the current scaling concept that probably won't sit well with many users. It's a more traditional way of designing and ordering a computer to actually meet the users needs, rather than having to invest in at least 48 GPU cores just to get 20 CPU cores, for instance.
 

Xiao_Xi

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2021
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There's the possibility that this new Mac Pro has an Apple silicon chip that is designed almost exclusively around the CPU and neural engine - a real workhorse. I believe this could be the case because many users are CPU rather than GPU reliant, particularly in coding, science and engineering. Apple could pack a lot of cores in that die area with the GPU ones taken away.
Why would you want a server SOC instead of a workstation SOC for Mac Pro? What would happen to GPU-accelerated software? Should the Mac Pro SOC be based on ARM v9?
 

ADGrant

macrumors 68000
Mar 26, 2018
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There was a decent chance that in their 2019-era plans that was true. There is also a decent chance that plan was 'blown up' by circumstances outside of Apple's control.

Apple released an updated Intel iMac in July 2020 after they said more Intel Macs coming. If that was by 'unit sold' that is true. If 'Macs' meant multiple products then that hasn't turned out.
The 2020 27" iMac includes multiple SKUs and multiple Intel CPUs from 6 cores to 10 cores.
 

ric22

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Mar 8, 2022
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Whatever happens, it'll be interesting. If Apple's chip building goes well, perhaps they might try to find a way to go after the server market. It would be fascinating if they could build a Mac Pro style box and have it be possible to add multiple add on boards each with an a M1 Ultra or two on it.
 
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