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What is the point of Sierra?

Freida said:
Hello guys,

I think I'm missing something here because I don't see Sierra as a next version of OS. Can someone tell me what do we really get?

(...)

Am I missing something? Because this sounds to me like few little tweaks and bonuses but nothing that would indicate new OS.

(...)

Or is this what we will be getting from now on? Few tiny things and thats about it?

What do I not see here?
Click to expand...

Short answer: The GUI is over 30 years old now. What more are you expecting from a device that's controlled with a mouse/trackpad and keyboard? Just be thankful for what it actually can do (It now understands a human voice for Christ's sake), rather than what it doesn't (Make coffee? Cure hangovers?)

Perhaps you're under the illusion that changes should be outward facing; but Yosemite>El Cap>Sierra have made great strides under-the-hood, and that's really where it all counts, along with some visual consistency and polish.

It's all very well when Windows appears to be making more - or better - enhancements, but it's only once you go back to it that you realise why you left in the first place.

Simply put, Windows is akin to a 1985 Ford Escort that has the same body patched-up with new parts, thick layers of go-faster stripes, hundreds of new dings that need straightening monthly... and the engine of a 1985 Ford Escort.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, it may be too late to just buy a new car...
 
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chabig said:
Look at other areas of modern life--cars, blenders, dishwasher, etc. They all do what they do very well and we don't expect to be wowed all of the time. Computers have reached the same point in their development.
Click to expand...
I moved into a new house this year, with all-new appliances. I'm amazed at how much convenience and comfort they bring to my life. I love having a quiet dishwasher, and the all-electronic washer/dryer make my towels really fluffy and soft...

OS-X is 15 years old now, and in need of a dramatic change, but I don't see that on the horizon. I appreciate how Apple has been trying to integrate the phone with OS-X; about half of their ideas have been very useful for me. I thought that getting my Messages on my laptop would be silly, but it makes a lot of sense to send and receive them when I'm working on my computer. It's much faster.

The one thing that makes OS-X remain so good is that tens of thousands of Apple employees use it daily, so it's a product that impacts their own daily lives. I don't think the President of Samsung is in touch with his dishwasher products, but the President of Apple is in touch with the Mac.

It doesn't seem like we're going to get a revolutionary new desktop/laptop computer experience out of Apple. The industry is focused on phones and VR right now. Time will tell.
 
Alameda said:
I moved into a new house this year, with all-new appliances. I'm amazed at how much convenience and comfort they bring to my life. I love having a quiet dishwasher, and the all-electronic washer/dryer make my towels really fluffy and soft...

OS-X is 15 years old now, and in need of a dramatic change, but I don't see that on the horizon. I appreciate how Apple has been trying to integrate the phone with OS-X; about half of their ideas have been very useful for me. I thought that getting my Messages on my laptop would be silly, but it makes a lot of sense to send and receive them when I'm working on my computer. It's much faster.

The one thing that makes OS-X remain so good is that tens of thousands of Apple employees use it daily, so it's a product that impacts their own daily lives. I don't think the President of Samsung is in touch with his dishwasher products, but the President of Apple is in touch with the Mac.

It doesn't seem like we're going to get a revolutionary new desktop/laptop computer experience out of Apple. The industry is focused on phones and VR right now. Time will tell.
Click to expand...

You what? I don't want OS X to be a washing machine OS just as I don't want my washing machine to have flashy lights and useless distractions. I want it to functional, to the point, and not require reading a manual. An OS for a computer should be consistent, consistent and consistent. That means no silly interface changes to established practices unless proven to be an improvement. The majority of HCI changes are all because the OS vendor decides that the OS has been consistent for too long and needs to change just because. A wholly irrational argument which gives us monotonous change like the Microsoft ribbon abomination.

OS vendors, if you want to make change then they should be minimalist, justified and a value add. Don't force change on users who do want them.
 
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So after all this talk I decided to go against my previous thinking and I did install the beta on my main machine. It always worked for me in the past so why wouldn't it work this time. After a day of testing I can report that the OS feels smoother. I've also gained 30GB of space (which I'm still amazed about). Time will tell how good it is under the hood but right now it does feel a bit smoother. As I'm on rMBP 2012 model I do appreciate smoothness a lot. :)

Lets see how well it goes with further updates :)
 
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Major, minor

maflynn said:
… a minor update, but then we saw that last year …
Click to expand...

Last year: Apple - Press Info - Apple Announces OS X El Capitan with Refined Experience & Improved Performance – there, not described as major.

This year: Apple previews major update with macOS Sierra – Apple and whilst I agree that it's major, I understand that others will disagree. Different use cases.

MacRumors said:
… major update …

Deeper iCloud integration …
Click to expand...

APFS

maflynn said:
… one of those under the hood things. Plus its not slated to be part of Sierra …
Click to expand...

It is to be part of Sierra; under the hood.
 
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I for one am for these additions. I may not use every single feature introduced, like Siri but some folks do.
However I do like the addition of the new file system, the unlocking with my watch, so far the iCloud updates are working well across my test machines, I'm a fan of Apple pay so bringing that to my computer is something I welcome.
Universal clipboard isn't a big thing for me.
iMessage is my main form of communication so every little thing is somewhat interesting for me.
I don't iTunes much anymore so those changes aren't spectacular for me either.
Picture in Picture is definitely something I like, as well as Tabs for pretty much everything.

This is nothing new with their release cycles, really.
Since Cheetah in 2001, a new revision has been released 12 times.
So 13 - OS X versions over a 15 year span.
 
Freida said:
Hello guys,

I think I'm missing something here because I don't see Sierra as a next version of OS. Can someone tell me what do we really get?
So far its

1. Siri
2. Cleaning disk tool
3. Opening the system with iWatch
4. Apple Pay in Safari

Am I missing something? Because this sounds to me like few little tweaks and bonuses but nothing that would indicate new OS. I used to try BETAs before but now I have no desire to even try the whole thing until its at least 10.12.3 or so.

I don't really use Siri on my iPhone & iPad so whats really left for me to know that I'm running the next OS?

Or is this what we will be getting from now on? Few tiny things and thats about it?

What do I not see here?
Click to expand...

The purpose of Sierra, is to give me a reason to have taken this photo from 30,000 feet, of El Capitain, in Yosemite Park, in the Sierra Moutain range two days ago...
IMG_2768.JPG

[doublepost=1468106920][/doublepost]
miniroll32 said:
Short answer: The GUI is over 30 years old now. What more are you expecting from a device that's controlled with a mouse/trackpad and keyboard? Just be thankful for what it actually can do (It now understands a human voice for Christ's sake), rather than what it doesn't (Make coffee? Cure hangovers?)

Perhaps you're under the illusion that changes should be outward facing; but Yosemite>El Cap>Sierra have made great strides under-the-hood, and that's really where it all counts, along with some visual consistency and polish.

It's all very well when Windows appears to be making more - or better - enhancements, but it's only once you go back to it that you realise why you left in the first place.

Simply put, Windows is akin to a 1985 Ford Escort that has the same body patched-up with new parts, thick layers of go-faster stripes, hundreds of new dings that need straightening monthly... and the engine of a 1985 Ford Escort.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, it may be too late to just buy a new car...
Click to expand...


Voice control has been around MacOS 8....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/archive/mac/keyboard/vr/voice-recog-os9.shtml
 
dogslobber said:
You what? I don't want OS X to be a washing machine OS just as I don't want my washing machine to have flashy lights and useless distractions. I want it to functional, to the point, and not require reading a manual. An OS for a computer should be consistent, consistent and consistent. That means no silly interface changes to established practices unless proven to be an improvement. The majority of HCI changes are all because the OS vendor decides that the OS has been consistent for too long and needs to change just because. A wholly irrational argument which gives us monotonous change like the Microsoft ribbon abomination.

OS vendors, if you want to make change then they should be minimalist, justified and a value add. Don't force change on users who do want them.
Click to expand...
My point is that newer household appliances really are "new and improved." Not trying to start a war over a dishwasher, my friend.
 
Alameda said:
My point is that newer household appliances really are "new and improved."
Click to expand...

In what way do you mean "new and improved"? All I see when I look at new appliances is lots of knobs and flashing displays that appear redundant. I'm not really sure why the dryer needs to have a date and time on it. I equate it to my new 2016 vehicle which beeps and flashes incessantly at the driver trying to attract their attention. I simply don't want to know until I decide to wear a seatbelt or the center console think I need to select "I agree" before I can use it while driving. All that stuff is new but not improved. I preferred driving my 90s vehicle which let me drive.
 
Mollan said:
It is exactly the same feeling I had yesterday.
Seems like to coolest feature is the new wallpaper.

Siri is as dumb as always. 12 different requests before let it understand that I wanted to know the score from Germany - France. And still, the answer was wrong, since it checked an old calendar.

1 single request with Google Now.

And please, create a night mode as soon as the white theme is finalised. Having a white Notification Center with black bar and dock is terrible.
Click to expand...

Lol the lies that people tell about Siri. I tried "what's the score from Germany vs France" and it showed me the score in less than 1 second. Siri also works greatly every time I use it. Not perfect, but far from bad. But sure just keep telling yourself what you want to believe.
 
1 APFS (apple file system) beginnings (ending in file integration between macOS and iOS)
2 Differential Privacy beginning (apple playing catchup in helping us to use more of our info auto-majic-ally)
3 Opening up the OS to 3rd party developers (but hopefully finding ways to prevent dark hat developers misuse)
4 Visual refinements (apple music playing with fonts)
 
I feel that Apple invested majority of their software engineering time into iOS 10 (Which has literally got like 100+ Improvements) and watchOS 3. Next year with the release of the new file system, 10.13 will introduce a new finder with vastly improved metadata features. Perhaps even introducing "Siri intelligence" into the file system level. You can see they have started it with Siri file searches on 10.12 using spotlight to power it. But in 10.13 I think Spotlight will improve a lot with the new file system powering it.

Well that's what I'm hoping anyway.
 
dogslobber said:
In what way do you mean "new and improved"? All I see when I look at new appliances is lots of knobs and flashing displays that appear redundant. I'm not really sure why the dryer needs to have a date and time on it. I equate it to my new 2016 vehicle which beeps and flashes incessantly at the driver trying to attract their attention. I simply don't want to know until I decide to wear a seatbelt or the center console think I need to select "I agree" before I can use it while driving. All that stuff is new but not improved. I preferred driving my 90s vehicle which let me drive.
Click to expand...

I agree, the early 80's era washer and dryer I used to wash my clothes in the early 90's washed and dried my clothes just as well as the ones I bought in 2008 when I moved into my house.

The dishwasher washes my clothes just as well as my wife's hands, and she has probably only used the dishwasher less than ten times in the past 8 years.

I also don't need the date and time on the stove AND the microwave right above it, and the refrigerator next to it... I certainly do not want or need a camera inside the fridge to help me buy groceries.
 
Laptops and Phones have kinda hit a wall in terms of innovation and that's fine. All platforms are essentially just improving their underlying tech and improving their SDKs so that app devs can find the next big thing.

I feel the only major barrier macOS has left to get through is the graphics API (metal update in sierra isn't quite good enough) and the file system (APFS is promising but a year away).

OS and Hardware are no longer so much the primary draw of consumers, but rather the common marketplace from which Apple and MS look to make money through their app stores, music streaming, etc.
 
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appledefenceforce said:
Lol the lies that people tell about Siri. I tried "what's the score from Germany vs France" and it showed me the score in less than 1 second. Siri also works greatly every time I use it. Not perfect, but far from bad. But sure just keep telling yourself what you want to believe.
Click to expand...

Probably they updated the server OR the English version is working fine.
The Italian and Dutch versions are total crap. It gave me the results from Germany vs France of November 2015. Check also yours.

Google Now working perfectly in every language.
 
I just tried Siri in Norwegian, and my, what crap is this..? Nothing at all works, and on top of that the Siri voice sounds like a depressed suicidal and bitter female... I can't listen to that?! Maybe Siri works for daily weather reports on Paris, as she hints I am allowed to ask, but that is not a daily concern of mine. First thing I will deactivate and never look back on in Sierra! Now, what about system optimisations, fixes in the finder?
 
My view on the Sierra release is that its main purpose was:
- Having a new release to transition to Swift without breaking the old ElCap infrastructure
- Silently supporting not yet released hardware features
- Removing more and more of the BSD / Unix userspace programs and get more proprietary components in there.

It's not a new OS to support the user, it's a release to support Apple and its future plans to gain even more control about App development and content on the Mac.

This might sound negative, but unfortunately this is Apples only valid chance to continue its success.
 
grahamperrin said:
This year: Apple previews major update with macOS Sierra – Apple and whilst I agree that it's major, I understand that others will disagree. Different use cases.
Click to expand...
Apple is calling it major, the listed updates, while welcome are not something that it seems many of us are willing to categorize as major. A long over due inclusion of Siri, Tabs in every app, copy and past between devices.

They're all nice features to be sure but its a stretch to say this version of macOS is a major update. Its a refinement of the existing code base.
 
maflynn said:
Apple is calling it major, the listed updates, while welcome are not something that it seems many of us are willing to categorize as major. A long over due inclusion of Siri, Tabs in every app, copy and past between devices.

They're all nice features to be sure but its a stretch to say this version of macOS is a major update. Its a refinement of the existing code base.
Click to expand...

Agreed. This is a very MINOR update. Altho certainly larger than the one update where all they did was switch to another font.

Check out the Sierra preview:

http://www.apple.com/macos/sierra-preview/

  • Siri (bought by Apple in 2010, integrated into iOS 2011)
  • Photos (refinements)
  • Apple Pay (from iOS)
  • Auto unlock with Watch (boring, but why is it limited to Watch? THIS is a listed bullet point feature?!)
  • Universal Clipboard (I've wanted this & I'm sure it will be useful)
  • iCloud Drive (integration, but nice)
  • Optimized Storage
  • Messages (great, emojis are 3x the size!)
  • iTunes (refinements)
  • Tabs (cool)
  • Picture in Picture (cool)

Nothing groundbreaking. Too be honest, I like it & it's cool so far, but nothing exciting. I guess a couple years of stabilizing is good.

For me, the Desktop & Documents synced to iCloud is the most useful. Nothing you couldn't do with Dropbox or Google Drive, but since it's built in & Apple, it's more seamless.
 
APFS developer preview technology, alone, should make Sierra a major update for people who care about file systems; who sense the degrees to which things are shackled by HFS Plus. File systems are a niche interest; I don't expect a majority of users to agree.
 
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