What is there's no new MacPro announced on 27th October ?

[deconstruct60]

Does anyone think that even if Apple decide not to deliver a new update to the current MacPro on the 27th October, that this could be the end for the MacPro or could November delivery a surprise update...?

Even if Apple as going to deliver in November (or maybe early December) they would announce in October. The notion of Apple 'hiding' something into 'mid-Nov-December' is largely delusional. They have never done that, nor does it make much rational sense to do so.

It is extremely unlikely there is any "November" surprise coming. Even less likely that there is a "December" surprise coming.


If this a pure laptop refresh then a desktop oriented refresh would far more likely arrive in 2017. New CPUs for iMac and Mini in that timeframe.

I have a MacPro 2 x 2.93 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon Mid 2010 with 500GB SSD plus 64GM RAM with QTY 3 x 3TB internal drives running macOS Sierra. It's still a great machine....

The catch-22 is the number of folks saying that Mac Pro 2010 is still reasonably OK, takes the pressure of off Apple to deliver something new. Yes, there are some folks bolting for Windows. But a number of folks sitting on 2010-2013 Mac Pros aren't likely to move much in the next 6 months ( Users are generally squatting on the same machine for longer periods of time than in the past. That trend started years before the Mac Pro 2013 arrived. That general trend is not going to promote yearly updates of a Mac Pro. )

While there are several Windows laptops matching and surpassing the Mac laptops on build, thinness, screens, etc., the iMac and Mac Pro are unlikely to get a veiled admission of defeat from Apple. The iMac is solid and few have executed something better than the Mac Pro in its space [ Boxes with slots continue but Apple clearly doesn't want to go there. ] The Mini is riding on laptop parts. Depending upon how fluild those parts are available it could go with them or later (with iMac ).

The Mac Pro is obviously on a not high priority schedule.

... so a new machine would be a great boost to my graphic design / web design / large format design business. ...

if Apple is on an approximately 3 year cadence ( 2010 -> 2013 ), the Mac Pro really wasn't widely available until 2014. Plus 3 on that is early 2017. If there is nothing by March 2017 then I wouldn't hold my breath ( especially if the rest of the desktop line up completes a refresh by that time). At that point, it is has fallen into the probably will be (or has been) canceled category.

It certainly would improve relations with the Mac Pro market to release a bit sooner than every 3 years, but I don't expect Apple to do that.


[ The 2012 Mac Pro was more of a "not dead" release than anything substantive... so yes 2010 -> very late 2013 is bit more than 3 years. ]


If Apple is on a 3 year cycle then the remaining Mac Pro customers are likely going to put some thought and effort into synching up with the Mac Pro cycle. On 3 or On 6 ... instead of On 4 or On 5 year cycles.

 

[HDFan]

I don't remember the exact timelines, but the NMP wasn't introduced until well after my 3 year applecare expired on my 2010 old one, so it looks as if it won't be much different this time with my 2013 12 cpu one. MacRumors used to have the dates indicating the times between releases. Looked but couldn't find it. But as I recollect this long wait is not unique for the MacPro so it shouldn't be a surprise.

As a non professional user looking at that HP video it's like, well, yeah, they've got performance, but it's just like the old Mac Pro. Huge, unwieldily. I already have my devices (external RAID, Blu-Ray burners, mouse, keyboard) so why should I have to purchase new ones? My mouse and ergonometric keyboard are superior to what they ship so that's wasted money. At the time the nMP came out I thought not including all of these things was insane. I've revised my opinion.

I no longer find it fun mucking around inside a computer case. On my nMP it's trivial to switch devices since I don't have to go into the case so I do it all the time now. Assuming any nMP is similarly designed, all I have to do is swap out the new one with the old and plug in my devices. Selling the old one is simple enough as it fits into a small shipping box. I need to sell my 2010 12 cpu system but it's still sitting here 3 years later because I can't figure out how to ship it as the original box is gone and it's so large and heavy it's unclear where to go to find someone who can package it safely.

Windows is a nightmare to support and I've done it since since DOS 1.0. See IBM's support cost numbers. Microsoft's most recent Windows 10 update (in Parallels) completely screwed the OS. Took a day trying to fix it, which wasn't easy since there was no start menu. Finally gave up and had to do a complete reinstall as no other recovery option worked. This meant all my apps had to be reinstalled as well. In contrast over night I reinstalled El Capital and I'm running just as I was before the reinstall.

So sure, if performance is your only consideration then you're probably better off in the Microsoft world. But if you are interested in supportability, ease of use, elegance as well as top of the line performance (when it is initially released) then be prepared to wait. That's just the way it is.

 

[deconstruct60]

I just don't understand that with a company that size... they can't progress multiple products all at the same time... they must have the staff and R&D teams coming out their ears... they have become so careful and conservative... and dare I say it... STALE!! Ooopppss.... I said it!!

They relatively don't have huge size. If took the throw money at the wall car project out of the loop the R&D spending isn't comparable to IBM or ATT in their heyday (and inflation adjusted). Personnel size... again...dump the bodies in retail , sales , marketing , and administration and not particularly big for the size of phone business they are in.

I'd be shocked if there is a full time Mac Pro engineering team. One of Jobs' philosophies is trying to stay "small company" mentality by actually staying small teams. The industrial design team is huge choke point on Apple. Ive and his band of 20-30 designers have to cover a multi billion dollar operations. I doubt there is the industrial design bandwidth to do more than 2 Macs at any one time there.

The Mac Pro is likely more profitable enough not to be trivially cancelled more so than looked upon as something that needs alot more resources applied. It isn't high growth, nor is it going to be high growth ( the workstation market it is inside of isn't high growth). Depending upon the trend line of what customers buy, the allocation of resource battle probably goes from hard to impossible (with the buying drops off too much).

Can't look at the giant money pit or overall corporate revenues Apple has because the Mac Pro did not generate those. Directly or indirectly ( in a major substantive way. Arm flapping about how iOS development will evaporate without the Mac Pro is exactly that; arm flapping. That isn't going to win any serious internal resource allocation meetings.) Even in the Mac space it isn't a major driver. The laptops are far more strategic and critical to the Mac ecosystem viability.

Apple's problem has been that when have a couple of products with very high growth they tend to "suck the air out of" the products that have little to no growth. Resources are pulled. Speculative bets are made on other things that show promise of high returns and growth.

The slippery slope I think Apple is failing on is the balance between "we are just one big harmonious, integrated products/services" company and allowing the individual product lines enough leash to do what they need to do independently. The Mac project was a "pirate" group in a separate building from the rest of the company. The Mac Pro is one of those products at the far boundary away from the others where being tracked into the same "group think" design lab may be as much a hinderance as a benefit. Or at least more resources allocated so don't get 'lost' in a 3 year cycle.

 

[chfilm]

Guys relax. The current MP is still a damn beast! But I agree, right now buying one is pointless as it needs TB3 and 5k support. They will definitely bring that to the Mac Pro, the question is will it be this year or q1 2017 like it has been rumored for the iMacs as well. (Blame intel!).
Guys mentioned it before, the ease of use and upgradebility with thunderbolt devices, and the possibility to simply carry the machine to clients and attach it to their screens makes it in my eyes hit the sweet spot between customization and integration. Just wait for the next iteration, cause if TB3 truly allows for external gpus, the modular computer will be perfect.
If I was on the edge and didn't already have a wonderful nMP 2013, I'd keep my feet still and wait until at least next year before bothering to go to team PC. I still remember my flat mate who's a professional color grader and the "fun" that he had with his HP workstation. It was a fuc*ing ordeal and had to be sent back and forth between him and HP 2 times before it ran properly. No thanks!

 

[aaronhead14]

Guys relax. The current MP is still a damn beast!

It's really not though... haha. The GPU options are especially bad.

[doublepost=1477350329][/doublepost]Honestly, if there isn't an update to the Mac Pro, MANY professionals will switch to PC. It's a sad truth....
Nothing's better than macOS, but not if hardware is 3.5 years old!

 

[chfilm]

It is though. Just looking at CPU usage at my daily work in motion graphics, editing or even vfx, the only time the machine gets to use all its power is during final render in nuke or premiere. Not even after effects supports proper multi threading in its current form (because they removed it over a year ago -_-)
[doublepost=1477350851][/doublepost]

It's really not though... haha. The GPU options are especially bad.

[doublepost=1477350329][/doublepost]Honestly, if there isn't an update to the Mac Pro, MANY professionals will switch to PC. It's a sad truth....
Nothing's better than macOS, but not if hardware is 3.5 years old!

That video is just so ridiculous. Of course if you buy the Mac Pro NOW it is overpriced. It wasn't 3 years ago though.
Of course a 6 core is faster than a quad core. Luckily I have 8. That Mac Pro has too little ram. It needs at least 32 to serve the 4 cups properly on apps like cinebench. Open GL benchmark with an NVIDIA card vs open cl cards in the Mac Pro?! Of course the NVIDIA card wins.
How about ssd performance? Does the PC have Thunderbolt 2? Plus the guy who did this video is so full of himself, he wasn't even interested in giving the Mac Pro a fair judgement.

 

[Peace]

It's really not though... haha. The GPU options are especially bad.

[doublepost=1477350329][/doublepost]Honestly, if there isn't an update to the Mac Pro, MANY professionals will switch to PC. It's a sad truth....
Nothing's better than macOS, but not if hardware is 3.5 years old!

The dudes comparing a 6-core to a quad-core.

 

[sevoneone]

The next MacPro will be more integrated and less upgradable than the current one.

I think it has become clear that Apple intends all of it's products to become 'gadgets' instead of complete 'systems.' It makes sense given their focus on design. Systems have to be open to a degree, open to modification, open to change/upgrades and you have to make compromises to have those things. Gadgets can be designed to be unique in form and function. Gadgets can be magical. I have a sinking feeling that the Macs that debut this week will be another step down the line towards being more gadget. Fully integrated and proprietary components and zero user serviceability. I'm sure they will look great though.

Where that fits for a professional user is entirely up to them. Most "Pro" users can likely get by with a gadget. If there was a 100% integrated Gadget that fit in a 4x4x4 solid cube and ran Final Cut Pro like nobody's business, I'd get by. But it would not be for me. I hope I am wrong.

 

[AidenShaw]

The dudes comparing a 6-core to a quad-core.

I thought that he was comparing a $2000 PC to a $4000 PC.

If twice the money gets you 2/3 as many cores - the comparison is valid.

 

[Peace]

I thought that he was comparing a $2000 PC to a $4000 PC.

If twice the money gets you 2/3 as many cores - the comparison is valid.

No Aiden. He was directly comparing a 6-core to a 4-core in cinebench.

Cheaper sure. But the comparison on benchmarks is wrong.

You know that.

 

[AidenShaw]

No Aiden. He was directly comparing a 6-core to a 4-core in cinebench.

Cheaper sure. But the comparison on benchmarks is wrong.

You know that.

I guess that I misunderstood it, then. I thought that it was a $2K PC vs. a $4K Apple.

Should he have upgraded the Apple and made the story "$2K PC matches $6K Apple"?

 

[Peace]

I guess that I misunderstood it, then. I thought that it was a $2K PC vs. a $4K Apple.

Should he have upgraded the Apple and made the story "$2K PC matches $6K Apple"?

Forget about the price man.

He said a new comparable PC was faster. Especially in "multi-threading" Something a 6-core will out perform a quad-core at any time.


Well they are not comparable.

And once again. If you don't know the difference between 4 cores and 6 cores you need a new job.

 

[aaronhead14]

Forget about the price man.

He said a new comparable PC was faster. Especially in "multi-threading" Something a 6-core will out perform a quad-core at any time.


Well they are not comparable.

And once again. If you don't know the difference between 4 cores and 6 cores you need a new job.

The main point of the video is comparing how much a cheap PC outperforms an overpriced, outdated Mac Pro. It's just comparing two computers, man. No one ever said specs needed to be exactly the same when comparing computers. And price is a super important thing, so don't tell him to forget it. Geez.

 

[AidenShaw]

And once again. If you don't know the difference between 4 cores and 6 cores you need a new job.

I had a lengthy response ready to send, but the cat walked across the keyboard and wiped it out. In the meantime, Aaronhead14 hit the nail on the head in far fewer words.

And, as far as my job, today I ordered 3 more 72-core 1 TiB servers, and 16 Titan-X Pascal cards to upgrade systems that now have Titan X Maxwell and GTX 980ti cards. And a TiB of RAM to upgrade four vSphere servers from 512 GiB each to 768 GiB each. And two 96 TB 12 Gb SAS storage shelves. The October capex order.

I have a hardware budget of about $1M per year. Please tell me more about looking for a new job.

 

[Peace]

The main point of the video is comparing how much a cheap PC outperforms an overpriced, outdated Mac Pro. It's just comparing two computers, man. No one ever said specs needed to be exactly the same when comparing computers. And price is a super important thing, so don't tell him to forget it. Geez.

I had a lengthy response ready to send, but the cat walked across the keyboard and wiped it out. In the meantime, Aaronhead14 hit the nail on the head in far fewer words.

And, as far as my job, today I ordered 3 more 72-core 1 TiB servers, and 16 Titan-X Pascal cards to upgrade systems that now have Titan X Maxwell and GTX 980ti cards. And a TiB of RAM to upgrade four vSphere servers from 512 GiB each to 768 GiB each. And two 96 TB 12 Gb SAS storage shelves. The October capex order.

I have a hardware budget of about $1M per year. Please tell me more about looking for a new job.

fine all I'm saying is had he used the same specs that price would have been higher.

 

[crescentmoon]

Going out of my mind waiting.....

 

[slughead]

But no OSX and too much of a change for me.....

It's not as bad as you think. Win 10 takes some getting used to but you'll get used to it so fast you'll forget you're using it.

Boring summary of the last 3 years of my mac to PC switch:

I have a PC desktop, mac pro 5,1, rMBP 2013, Gaming PC laptop. PC's for GPU power and peripheral compatibility, Macs for casual use like email and web browsing. I've nearly phased out the Mac Pro but I haven't done video editing in a year, I switched careers and tinkering is a hassle.

I even do my web development on PC as the tools are so much better /cheaper and *gasp* reliable.

Honestly most of the reason for my switch to PC was Apple crapping on the Mac tower. They keep breaking crap and as the years go by hardware companies have stopped making driver updates. I could go back to El Capitan but why the crap should I have to? I like handoff.

I dropped my RAID card this year, threw everything on some high-cap drives with TM backup, 1TB ssd for the current project, then archive to the big drive. The latest update 10.12.0 killed GTX980 support on the native driver and then killed the Nvidia driver (I'm limping along on my GT120). Whatever, I'll just turn the Mac Pro off for a while, I may not bother to restore back to 10.12.0. I throw everything on MS One Drive and move from machine to machine.

Actually if my rMBP ever dies (I'd gladly pay for another battery if it wasn't chugging along 3 years and counting without a hitch), I may buy a Razor Blade or similar PC with a touch screen to replace it and call it quits with Apple for day-to-day use. I love that I threw in a 1TB SSD in my PC laptop within 5 minutes of receiving it. I love that it can hook up an external GPU (but I have a 980M so why I don't need to). I take my PC laptop on trips to game and work and edit vacation video, the Macbook is relegated to tossing from room to room when I do my electronics hobbies and need a reference or listen to some media while I'm goofing off. It's a glorified iPad. If I had a serious powerpoint lecture to work on, I'd use my PC.

I donno, rambling but if I were editing video again for hours a day, I'm pretty sure I'd be using my PC. FCPX is not enough of a killer app to deal with all this.

 

[aaronhead14]

It's not as bad as you think. Win 10 takes some getting used to but you'll get used to it so fast you'll forget you're using it.

Boring summary of the last 3 years of my mac to PC switch:

I have a PC desktop, mac pro 5,1, rMBP 2013, Gaming PC laptop. PC's for GPU power and peripheral compatibility, Macs for casual use like email and web browsing. I've nearly phased out the Mac Pro but I haven't done video editing in a year, I switched careers and tinkering is a hassle.

I even do my web development on PC as the tools are so much better /cheaper and *gasp* reliable.

Honestly most of the reason for my switch to PC was Apple crapping on the Mac tower. They keep breaking crap and as the years go by hardware companies have stopped making driver updates. I could go back to El Capitan but why the crap should I have to? I like handoff.

I dropped my RAID card this year, threw everything on some high-cap drives with TM backup, 1TB ssd for the current project, then archive to the big drive. The latest update 10.12.0 killed GTX980 support on the native driver and then killed the Nvidia driver (I'm limping along on my GT120). Whatever, I'll just turn the Mac Pro off for a while, I may not bother to restore back to 10.12.0. I throw everything on MS One Drive and move from machine to machine.

Actually if my rMBP ever dies (I'd gladly pay for another battery if it wasn't chugging along 3 years and counting without a hitch), I may buy a Razor Blade or similar PC with a touch screen to replace it and call it quits with Apple for day-to-day use. I love that I threw in a 1TB SSD in my PC laptop within 5 minutes of receiving it. I love that it can hook up an external GPU (but I have a 980M so why I don't need to). I take my PC laptop on trips to game and work and edit vacation video, the Macbook is relegated to tossing from room to room when I do my electronics hobbies and need a reference or listen to some media while I'm goofing off. It's a glorified iPad. If I had a serious powerpoint lecture to work on, I'd use my PC.

I donno, rambling but if I were editing video again for hours a day, I'm pretty sure I'd be using my PC. FCPX is not enough of a killer app to deal with all this.

The one reason to never go with Windows if you're a filmmaker or work with video: ProRes. There's nothing like it available in Windows. For this reason we Pro users HAVE to stick with Mac. At least for now...

 

[MacStu09]

The one reason to never go with Windows if you're a filmmaker or work with video: ProRes. There's nothing like it available in Windows. For this reason we Pro users HAVE to stick with Mac. At least for now...

There's nothing like it on windows...except ProRes, lol. I would've agreed with you a few years ago, but it's 2016, and that's no longer the case. Resolve and Premiere both read ProRes natively on Windows now; and even getting your export in ProRes isn't the big hassle it used to be, should you even need that.

Pro users definitely don't have to stick with mac, and considering the HP Z's completely smoke the Mac Pro when handling ProRes, and every other codec...there's really no comparison anymore. I still prefer the UI of OSX, but as soon as I'm in premiere or resolve, it makes no difference. The UI is then identical...only difference is that the PC is far more powerful, quicker, and expandable/more future-proof.

 

[aaronhead14]

There's nothing like it on windows...except ProRes, lol. I would've agreed with you a few years ago, but it's 2016, and that's no longer the case. Resolve and Premiere both read ProRes natively on Windows now; and even getting your export in ProRes isn't the big hassle it used to be, should you even need that.

Pro users definitely don't have to stick with mac, and considering the HP Z's completely smoke the Mac Pro when handling ProRes, and every other codec...there's really no comparison anymore. I still prefer the UI of OSX, but as soon as I'm in premiere or resolve, it makes no difference. The UI is then identical...only difference is that the PC is far more powerful, quicker, and expandable/more future-proof.

No, no. I think you fundamentally misunderstand the necessity of Macs in the professional video world. Resolve and Premiere both READ ProRes on Windows, but CANNOT write ProRes. PCs, within the professional world are 99% used for INTERMEDIATE work: stuff like Editing, Color Grading, and VFX. (And the Z workstations are great for this type of work). And since this is intermediate work, intermediate codecs suffice: such as DNxHR or Cineform. BUT, when MASTERING your film, neither of these codecs work. ProRes is really the only good option for mastering a film. Then DCPs, H264 deliverables, and all other deliverables can be built FROM that ProRes master. In fact, many distribution platforms will not accept anything BUT a ProRes master.
For me, however, I just really, really, really, really wish that Apple would make it so I didn't have to use a PC for hard-core VFX and color grading. It'd be WAY nice to just have a beastly Mac Pro that's capable of all this. It's just much nicer to have everything available on one workstation.

 

[iMcLovin]

If there's no new Mac Pro on thursday, people should move on, use it as a sign its about time to learn Windows and not get stuck being dependent on old hardware Apple.
The amount of value you get in a PC, either building it yourself or even buying ready to use HP Z doesn't justify any Mac Pro investment. If you think the hardware in the current Mac Pro is OK enough for you, then you probably aren't dependent on pro/top tier hardware to begin with imho, then the new Macbook Pro will do just fine.

 

[aaronhead14]

If there's no new Mac Pro on thursday, people should move on, use it as a sign its about time to learn Windows and not get stuck being dependent on old hardware Apple.
The amount of value you get in a PC, either building it yourself or even buying ready to use HP Z doesn't justify any Mac Pro investment. If you think the hardware in the current Mac Pro is OK enough for you, then you probably aren't dependent on pro/top tier hardware to begin with imho, then the new Macbook Pro will do just fine.

Ugh. The thing that's so annoying though is that I need PC hardware but Mac software... That's essentially what the old Mac Pro USED to be...

 

[iMcLovin]

Ugh. The thing that's so annoying though is that I need PC hardware but Mac software... That's essentially what the old Mac Pro USED to be...

WHat software ?

 

[aaronhead14]

WHat software ?

OS X. Er... macOS.

 

[iMcLovin]

OS X. Er... macOS.

WHy you need Mac OS if theres no custom software dependent on it? Using win 10 is not worse in any particular way imo, looks almost as good, has features anda selection of software and a userbase of support that are vastly larger than Mac OS. Coming from one that cares a lot about the looks and design of what I see on the screen UI and also been an Apple Fanboy for 10 years. After making my decision that my new workmachine would be a Windows 10 custom built machine, I see nothing in particular that made my life any easier or more pleasing with Mac OS. You just have to get used to it.