floriflee said:
This varies quite a bit. Some people can distinguish some kinds of red and green, but not others. Some color-blind people can see red and green just fine but have trouble with other colors. Still others see almost black and white.
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What it's like to be color blind
- Thread starter Doctor Q
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This varies quite a bit. Some people can distinguish some kinds of red and green, but not others. Some color-blind people can see red and green just fine but have trouble with other colors. Still others see almost black and white.
I'm a science geek, and of course have a particular interest in color blindness, so I hope you won't mind if I share some facts and figures.
--- Scientific facts ---
* Most color blindness is congenital (you are born with it), as opposed to the less common acquired form.
* Your retina contains rods that react to light levels, and three types of cones that react to color. When all three types of cones work normally, you are a trichromat ("3 colors"). When only two types work, you are a dichromat ("2 colors"). When only one type works, you are a monochromat ("1 color").
* The most common form of color blindness is red-green color blindness, which causes difficulty in distinguishing red, green, sometimes yellow, and colors based on them, such as brown and orange. It comes in two forms, which are about equally prevalent:
* Rarest of all is monochromacy, a complete lack of color vision, which affects maybe 3 in a million.
* Human color perception is a complicated subject. Many factors besides the basic functions of rods and cones affect our perception, and there are variations from person to person.
* Occasionally, but very rarely, a person is color blind in only one eye. Such people make ideal research subjects.
--- Scientific facts ---
* Most color blindness is congenital (you are born with it), as opposed to the less common acquired form.
* Your retina contains rods that react to light levels, and three types of cones that react to color. When all three types of cones work normally, you are a trichromat ("3 colors"). When only two types work, you are a dichromat ("2 colors"). When only one type works, you are a monochromat ("1 color").
* The most common form of color blindness is red-green color blindness, which causes difficulty in distinguishing red, green, sometimes yellow, and colors based on them, such as brown and orange. It comes in two forms, which are about equally prevalent:
Protanopia - can't sense red, or can't sense it well. The "L" cones are faulty.
Deuteranopia - can't sense green, or can't sense it well. The "M" cones are faulty.
* A less-common form is blue-yellow color blindness (tritanopia). Tritanopes do not sense blue, or do not sense it well, and have trouble distinguishing blue from yellow. Their "S" cones are faulty.Deuteranopia - can't sense green, or can't sense it well. The "M" cones are faulty.
* Rarest of all is monochromacy, a complete lack of color vision, which affects maybe 3 in a million.
* Human color perception is a complicated subject. Many factors besides the basic functions of rods and cones affect our perception, and there are variations from person to person.
* Occasionally, but very rarely, a person is color blind in only one eye. Such people make ideal research subjects.
It should be pointed out that there are different degrees of color blindness, some have slight color blindness and others are total color blind. Im in the middle somewhere. Im luckey that i dont see people as greenish, DrQ isnt it appears.
--- Genetic facts ---
* Red-green color blindness is caused by a sex-linked gene, passed on the X chromosome, so it affects males much more than females.
* The gene for blue-yellow color blindness is on chromosome #7, so it affects men and women equally.
* If a man's X chromosome (the only X he has) has the red-green color blindness trait, he will be color blind.
* The gene is recessive, so a woman with one "good" X and one "bad" X will be a carrier but not color blind herself. A woman with two "bad" X chromosomes (one from each parent, an uncommon occurrence) will be color blind.
--- Inheritance Probabilities ---
Normal dad, normal mom:
* Red-green color blindness is caused by a sex-linked gene, passed on the X chromosome, so it affects males much more than females.
* The gene for blue-yellow color blindness is on chromosome #7, so it affects men and women equally.
* If a man's X chromosome (the only X he has) has the red-green color blindness trait, he will be color blind.
* The gene is recessive, so a woman with one "good" X and one "bad" X will be a carrier but not color blind herself. A woman with two "bad" X chromosomes (one from each parent, an uncommon occurrence) will be color blind.
--- Inheritance Probabilities ---
Normal dad, normal mom:
Sons: normal
Daughters: normal
Normal dad, carrier mom:Daughters: normal
Sons: 50% normal, 50% color blind
Daughters: 50% normal, 50% carriers
Normal dad, color blind mom:Daughters: 50% normal, 50% carriers
Sons: color blind
Daughters: carriers
Color blind dad, normal mom:Daughters: carriers
Sons: normal
Daughters: carriers
Color blind dad, carrier mom:Daughters: carriers
Sons: 50% normal, 50% color blind
Daughters: 50% color blind, 50% carriers
Color blind dad, color blind mom:Daughters: 50% color blind, 50% carriers
Sons: color blind
Daughters: color blind
Daughters: color blind
--- Cultural and practical facts ---
* You can't catch color blindness.
* The phrase "Color blind" is the established name for this condition, but is often misleading since almost all color blind people see color. They simply can't distinguish as many colors as most people can. They do not see in "black and white".
* The color blind can typically distinguish among primary colors and have much more trouble with pastels or less-primary shades.
* Color blindness is usually tested with circles of colored dots, called the Ishihara Test. There are also shape-based tests for children who don't yet know their numbers and letters.
* The color blind do not have trouble with the names of colors. They know grass is green. They know stop signs are red. However, those two colors may look the same or almost the same to them. This is often hard for people to understand.
* You can't help a color blind person "learn" colors by explaining anything to them. All they can do it memorize that certain items are certain colors.
* There are no cures for genetic color blindness. Filters or colored contact lenses or software (as Angelus520 mentioned) can be used to help distinguish colors, but nothing can be done about the lack of sensitivity of their retinal cones. Acquired color blindness can sometimes be treated. For example, cataract surgery can improve color vision.
* There are isolated populations, on islands for example, where complete lack of color vision affects a significant percentage of the population.
* The color blind use common sense and knowledge to help them with daily life, such as knowing the positions of traffic lights in their country, rather than relying solely on the color of the light.
* If we take a wild guess that 80% of the 69,000 MacRumors members are male, then the membership includes about 2800 to 4400 color blind males and 70 to 150 color blind females. If 80% is too high or low, the estimate is correspondingly high or low. Before today, the only two members I had previously noticed mentioning being color blind are mgargan1 and noel4r.
* You can't catch color blindness.
* The phrase "Color blind" is the established name for this condition, but is often misleading since almost all color blind people see color. They simply can't distinguish as many colors as most people can. They do not see in "black and white".
* The color blind can typically distinguish among primary colors and have much more trouble with pastels or less-primary shades.
* Color blindness is usually tested with circles of colored dots, called the Ishihara Test. There are also shape-based tests for children who don't yet know their numbers and letters.
* The color blind do not have trouble with the names of colors. They know grass is green. They know stop signs are red. However, those two colors may look the same or almost the same to them. This is often hard for people to understand.
* You can't help a color blind person "learn" colors by explaining anything to them. All they can do it memorize that certain items are certain colors.
* There are no cures for genetic color blindness. Filters or colored contact lenses or software (as Angelus520 mentioned) can be used to help distinguish colors, but nothing can be done about the lack of sensitivity of their retinal cones. Acquired color blindness can sometimes be treated. For example, cataract surgery can improve color vision.
* There are isolated populations, on islands for example, where complete lack of color vision affects a significant percentage of the population.
* The color blind use common sense and knowledge to help them with daily life, such as knowing the positions of traffic lights in their country, rather than relying solely on the color of the light.
* If we take a wild guess that 80% of the 69,000 MacRumors members are male, then the membership includes about 2800 to 4400 color blind males and 70 to 150 color blind females. If 80% is too high or low, the estimate is correspondingly high or low. Before today, the only two members I had previously noticed mentioning being color blind are mgargan1 and noel4r.
--- Links ---
Here is one online color blindness test.
Here is a web page with some simple explanations of color blindness and examples.
I can't see the world as color sighted people can, but if you have normal vision you can see the world as I see it, using a wonderful website named Vischeck.
Designing websites or printed materials so that the color blind are able to read/use them takes extra effort, but avoids denying participation to a percentage of readers/visitors. Here is a detailed article about it.
---Color wheel ---
Here is the Mac color wheel as seen with normal vision (top left), by a red-green color blind protanope (top right), by a red-green color blind deuteranope (bottom left), and by a blue-yellow color blind tritanope (bottom right).
Here is one online color blindness test.
Here is a web page with some simple explanations of color blindness and examples.
I can't see the world as color sighted people can, but if you have normal vision you can see the world as I see it, using a wonderful website named Vischeck.
Use this tool to simulate color blindness by specify the URL of a web page and then seeing it as a color blind person would see it.
Use this tool to upload an image and see it as a color blind person would.
Check the radio button for Protanope to match my vision, and try the other choices too if you like.
Use this tool to upload an image and see it as a color blind person would.
Check the radio button for Protanope to match my vision, and try the other choices too if you like.
Designing websites or printed materials so that the color blind are able to read/use them takes extra effort, but avoids denying participation to a percentage of readers/visitors. Here is a detailed article about it.
---Color wheel ---
Here is the Mac color wheel as seen with normal vision (top left), by a red-green color blind protanope (top right), by a red-green color blind deuteranope (bottom left), and by a blue-yellow color blind tritanope (bottom right).
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I am also color-blind, and it runs in my family. My maternal grandfather was color-blind and I and my two brothers are color-blind.
Here's my personal favorite color-blindness story:
A few years back, we did some major renovation of our church building. A lot of the labor was done by church members on a voluntary basis, and so I found myself working up at the church one Saturday morning. My pastor came by where I was working and asked if I could come help him with something. He didn't say what it was he needed help with, and it didn't occur to me to ask, so I just dropped what I was doing and took off after him.
We walked down this hallway and that. A kind of meandering route, with neither of us speaking much. Finally, after a few minutes, we arrived at a far corner of the building where there stood an open switchbox of some kind. It was only then that Brother David turned to me and said: "Lyle, I need you to tell me which one of these is the green wire and which one is the red, because I'm color-blind." I laughed and told him (a little too late) that I was exactly the wrong person to be helping him.
Here's my personal favorite color-blindness story:
A few years back, we did some major renovation of our church building. A lot of the labor was done by church members on a voluntary basis, and so I found myself working up at the church one Saturday morning. My pastor came by where I was working and asked if I could come help him with something. He didn't say what it was he needed help with, and it didn't occur to me to ask, so I just dropped what I was doing and took off after him.
We walked down this hallway and that. A kind of meandering route, with neither of us speaking much. Finally, after a few minutes, we arrived at a far corner of the building where there stood an open switchbox of some kind. It was only then that Brother David turned to me and said: "Lyle, I need you to tell me which one of these is the green wire and which one is the red, because I'm color-blind." I laughed and told him (a little too late) that I was exactly the wrong person to be helping him.
Oh...
... and thanks to Doctor Q for this interesting thread idea.
My wife's college roommate used to be fascinated with the fact that I was color-blind. Whenever I was visiting their apartment, she would hold up various objects and ask, "And what color does this look like to you?"
Doctor Q is right on about the fact that we just use common sense and memorization to get by in many situations. I know that (at least in the U.S.) the green light is the one at the bottom and the red light is the one at the top, even though they don't necessarily look "green" or "red" to me.
Likewise, although my wife still helps me a lot when I'm trying to color-coordinate clothes, I have learned the basics of which shirts "go" with which pants and that kind of thing. Most anything goes with Khaki pants or blue jeans, so I tend to wear those two kinds of pants a lot.
... and thanks to Doctor Q for this interesting thread idea.
My wife's college roommate used to be fascinated with the fact that I was color-blind. Whenever I was visiting their apartment, she would hold up various objects and ask, "And what color does this look like to you?"
Doctor Q is right on about the fact that we just use common sense and memorization to get by in many situations. I know that (at least in the U.S.) the green light is the one at the bottom and the red light is the one at the top, even though they don't necessarily look "green" or "red" to me.
Likewise, although my wife still helps me a lot when I'm trying to color-coordinate clothes, I have learned the basics of which shirts "go" with which pants and that kind of thing. Most anything goes with Khaki pants or blue jeans, so I tend to wear those two kinds of pants a lot.
I try to think of analogies to explain what it's like to be color blind. Here, for better or worse, are a few of them:
1. Suppose you tasted varieties of apples and tried to distinguish them. Some people might be able to distinguish many varieties and others might get similar types of apples confused. Some are more flavor sensitive than others because they have more capable taste buds on their tongues. It would be very rare for somebody to have no ability at all to distinguish one type of apple from another, but those who can distinguish a fewer-than-normal number might be considered "apple taste blind".
2. A creature from another planet shows up and tells you that he can distinguish blue from buel. He points out that the sky is blue but the car you call blue is buel. Others from the planet come along and agree with him. They can all tell the difference but you can't. You learn to call your car buel and the sky blue, but you wouldn't know it if the colors were swapped since they look the same to you. The aliens consider you to be color blind. To you, they seem to have a magic ability to tell two identical colors apart.
3. The waitress at Joe's Burger Shack asks if you want a large drink or a big drink. You say that "large" and "big" are the same, but she insists they are different. If you measure them carefully with instruments, you find that one cup is slightly taller and the other slightly wider. You can't tell them apart by looking but she clearly can. Then she brings you a "large" round plate of french fries and a "big" square plate of onion rings (nutritious meal, eh?). You can see that the plates have different shapes but can't tell which is considered "large" and which is considered "big". Even if you memorize the answers, you won't know which cheeseburger is the large one and which is the big one. The words are the same to you.
1. Suppose you tasted varieties of apples and tried to distinguish them. Some people might be able to distinguish many varieties and others might get similar types of apples confused. Some are more flavor sensitive than others because they have more capable taste buds on their tongues. It would be very rare for somebody to have no ability at all to distinguish one type of apple from another, but those who can distinguish a fewer-than-normal number might be considered "apple taste blind".
2. A creature from another planet shows up and tells you that he can distinguish blue from buel. He points out that the sky is blue but the car you call blue is buel. Others from the planet come along and agree with him. They can all tell the difference but you can't. You learn to call your car buel and the sky blue, but you wouldn't know it if the colors were swapped since they look the same to you. The aliens consider you to be color blind. To you, they seem to have a magic ability to tell two identical colors apart.
3. The waitress at Joe's Burger Shack asks if you want a large drink or a big drink. You say that "large" and "big" are the same, but she insists they are different. If you measure them carefully with instruments, you find that one cup is slightly taller and the other slightly wider. You can't tell them apart by looking but she clearly can. Then she brings you a "large" round plate of french fries and a "big" square plate of onion rings (nutritious meal, eh?). You can see that the plates have different shapes but can't tell which is considered "large" and which is considered "big". Even if you memorize the answers, you won't know which cheeseburger is the large one and which is the big one. The words are the same to you.
freeny said:
I remember 3 months into my web design course one of the students "realized" he was colour blind
I should also note he also made outlandish claims such as his band being signed to interscope records and his going on tour. I just thought it was funny
This is such an interesting thread! Kudos to you, Doctor Q, for starting it. And, also, thank you for the analogies. As one who is not color blind, I've wondered what it would be like. You did a very good job of explaining it. Thank you, too, to all the rest who shared their stories and their insights.
UKnjb is right that not being able to fully appreciate art is one of the disappointing results from being color blind. My wife studies art history and I go with her to art shows and lectures, but I know I'm seeing only 2/3 of the colors in many paintings.
Last week we went to a lecture about Gustave Courbet at the Getty Center, and saw this painting, "Grotto of Sarrazine near Nans-sous-Sainte-Anne", in person:
Everyone around me oohed and aahed at it. I wished I was seeing it as it was meant to be seen, instead of missing the reddish hues that I assume it has.
The other disappointment is playing games that require color. There are some Flash-based games I like to play at web sites but have a tough time with because you have to match colored dots that I can't tell apart. So I go for personal high scores, even though they are hilariously less than what other people score.
When I play board games with the kids in the family, they all know to let me remove some game piece colors. If there are two or three of us, for example, and the game pieces are blue, red, green, and yellow, I'll make sure we don't use both the red and the green, or I might move the wrong marker.
Last week we went to a lecture about Gustave Courbet at the Getty Center, and saw this painting, "Grotto of Sarrazine near Nans-sous-Sainte-Anne", in person:
Everyone around me oohed and aahed at it. I wished I was seeing it as it was meant to be seen, instead of missing the reddish hues that I assume it has.
The other disappointment is playing games that require color. There are some Flash-based games I like to play at web sites but have a tough time with because you have to match colored dots that I can't tell apart. So I go for personal high scores, even though they are hilariously less than what other people score.
When I play board games with the kids in the family, they all know to let me remove some game piece colors. If there are two or three of us, for example, and the game pieces are blue, red, green, and yellow, I'll make sure we don't use both the red and the green, or I might move the wrong marker.
I wasn't aware that there were so many color blind people, and I have often wondered what it would be like to no see colors. This thread has really opened my eyes.
Same with me well, sort of. One of my uncles is color blind but all growing up, I thought the whole family was just kidding. Until I saw his mismatched socks.maestro55 said:
And then I felt bad for all those childhood giggles because really, he did the best he could.My boyfriend is also a bit color blind (not as bad as my uncle, mind you). But it does get frustrating when he won't believe me that a given shirt doesn't match the rest of what he's wearing.
:edit: Oops, should probably state that they both have issues distinguishing varying shades of reds and greens.
Doctor Q said:
That one did it for me. She is sooo much hotter in the picture on the left.
You have my understanding now.
List of Color Blind MacRumors Members
I did some forum searching and discovered other members who mentioned they are color blind or partially color blind. I also found a thread named need help from colorblind members or vision docs and this thread by NoMemory.
The MacRumors Color Vision Deficiency Club apparently includes all of these members or their family members:
Note: I've been updating this list as more people posting later in the thread identify themselves as color blind or partially color blind, or mention it elsewhere in the forums.
I did some forum searching and discovered other members who mentioned they are color blind or partially color blind. I also found a thread named need help from colorblind members or vision docs and this thread by NoMemory.
The MacRumors Color Vision Deficiency Club apparently includes all of these members or their family members:
- 5300cs
- AliensAreFuzzy
- AlliFlowers ("color confused")
- aloofman's dad
- AlphaTech (a top poster in the early days of MacRumors)
- Angelus520
- Applespider's mom
- AustinIllini (mentioned here)
- BJMRamage (mentioned here)
- BlankStar
- CalBoy
- Chimpy
- Chone's father
- Chrispy
- Clix Pix's maternal grandfather
- compwiz1202
- -Concept-
- devilot's uncle and boyfriend
- Doctor Q (MacRumors administrator) and his grandfather and brother
- Dont Hurt Me and his grandfather
- dubbz's nephews
- eddiehaskell
- EricNau's dad
- FlexPen76
- giganten
- goldeneagle64
- haiggy's dad
- HalfFullmoon
- I7guy's father and both sons
- Jaro65
- Jbp915
- johnmadden78 (mentioned here and here)
- JoyBed
- JPT
- juanm (mentioned here)
- jv17
- kelvindisouza's dad
- Kyle?
- Linkjeniero
- Lyle and his grandfather and brothers
- max_altitude's brother
- mgargan1
- MHenr
- Michael7k
- Mito's friend
- mollyc's grandfather, brother, and son
- mr.steevo (mentioned here)
- MrFusion
- MrMacMan (I think)
- NATO
- nickspohn
- nightdweller25
- noaccess (apparently)
- noel4r
- NoMemory's daughter
- Noob616
- northy124
- Patrick425's brothers and grandpa
- ppcg4mac
- Psycdude
- QuarterSwede
- R94N (apparently)
- randyg
- Raven VII
- rei101
- Rokem
- SilentPanda
- SkyBell (very slightly, also mentioned here)
- sreedy (red-green-brown colour blind)
- steamboat26 (slightly)
- Stephen McKay (mentioned here)
- Steven1621
- synax
- The Doctor11 and his father
- thesdx (mildly)
- Thirio2
- Timepass (I think)
- toolbox
- Toreador93's brother
- touchdownjesus4's best friend
- Traverse
- tweakers_suck
- uaaerospace (first mentioned here)
- UKnjb
- vanzskater272
- w_parietti22's friend
- whooleytoo
- zflauaus's dad
Note: I've been updating this list as more people posting later in the thread identify themselves as color blind or partially color blind, or mention it elsewhere in the forums.
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So can you tell if a member is online simply by looking at a post of theirs? That is, does the green "online" light appear significantly different than the "offline" indicator?
I went to an Army recruiter in high school many years ago who said I was color blind, but I see the "3" and in general don't have trouble with reds and greens. I likely suffer from Deuteranomaly, which is apparently a very mild form of color blindness. I do have issues with olive colors, I suppose.
I went to an Army recruiter in high school many years ago who said I was color blind, but I see the "3" and in general don't have trouble with reds and greens. I likely suffer from Deuteranomaly, which is apparently a very mild form of color blindness. I do have issues with olive colors, I suppose.
Doctor Q said:
Call me word blind. I had to read that at least 4 times to figure out it doesn't say "3000 of 4000"...
If you're talking about additive (or transmissive) colours, like on a TV or a monitor, its Red Green and Blue (RGB). All three together full on is white.dotdotdot said:
I'm not colour blind myself but I have a friend (and nephew) who is. So it's not totally unknown to me. Occationally I've forgotten and said, eg. "Click the red button to close the window", when he used my PB for the first time. That obviously wasn't the most helpful direction.
Also have a nephew on another side of the family who is colour blind, and who is also an electrician (last time I checked). I assume they learn other ways to recognize cables and the like. I've never actually asked.
Interesting topic, and pictures, in any case.
Also have a nephew on another side of the family who is colour blind, and who is also an electrician (last time I checked). I assume they learn other ways to recognize cables and the like. I've never actually asked.
Interesting topic, and pictures, in any case.
Well, now that I think about it... I recall the doctor saying I has SteroVision, and while that may sound good... He made it out not to be, but to be honest I have no idea... But maybe that is the cause for me not seeing the image.