What ports should make a return to the 2021 Macbook Pro?

[smoking monkey]

This is all malarkey. The chances of a HDMI port or USB A on the 16" MBP M1x is next to NONE! It ain't happening I reckon. We'll get the SD Card slot, Magsafe and USB C. Any other ports and I'll be shocked!

So we're all getting worked up over nuttin'!

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I'm based in Europe, travel all over the world (or did). Inside our offices, I don't use cables, but AirPlay.

Then you must be in a minority unless you also bring along an Apple TV. I travel around schools and offices providing presentations, and haven't been to a single one that has had AirPlay. All the projectors I hook up to today are HDMI, and in very rare instances will be VGA.

If Apple thought like that, we would still be using optical drives, HDDs and VGA ports. There has to be somebody, who pushes forward.

This is really toxic thinking. Let everybody else take risks, I'll just sit back and stay in the past.

It's not toxic thinking at all. USB-C is an entirely different technology to anything that we've seen before, and it's currently only advantageous in a relative small number of scenarios.

Manufacturers need to weigh-up the balance of cost and benefit.

There is a clear difference between needs and wants; and in this case I/O such as HDMI and USB-A perform fine for a whole range of tasks, so there is no need for them to be replaced. Until USB-C becomes significantly cheaper, things aren't going to change.

 

[senttoschool]

That's it. We won't come to an understanding, because we want different things in tech. Somebody made a really great analogy with NASA before. You're like NASA. Let's use those Space Shuttle boosters from the 60s fifty years later. We've been to the Moon, we are the best.

I'm like SpaceX. Iterate, advance, explore new solutions.

? ? ? ? ?

I'm sorry, I just spilled my damn coffee.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

You're like NASA. Let's use those Space Shuttle boosters from the 60s fifty years later. We've been to the Moon, we are the best.

I'm like SpaceX. Iterate, advance, explore new solutions.

But SpaceX's Falcon 9 does use booster rockets...

 

[svanstrom]

Then you must be in a minority unless you also bring along an Apple TV. I travel around schools and offices providing presentations, and haven't been to a single one that has had AirPlay. All the projectors I hook up to today are HDMI, and in very rare instances will be VGA.

I usually bring a Chromecast, just as something at the bottom of my bag if all other things fail; and I wish I could replace that with an ATV-stick that does automagic meshing.

That wouldn't just be convenient, but if it also came with a female HDMI-port and USB-C… ooooooooh… that would be useful.

 

[senttoschool]

If Apple thought like that, we would still be using optical drives, HDDs and VGA ports. There has to be somebody, who pushes forward.

This is really toxic thinking. Let everybody else take risks, I'll just sit back and stay in the past.

Why don't you use even more ridiculous comparisons?

"If everyone thought like that, we'd still be riding horses instead of airplanes."

"If everyone thought like that, we'd still be cavemen chasing deers across the lands for our next meal."

 

[Stephen.R]

You're being silly again. Far more places or other people have an HDMI cable for whatever reason than a USB C to HDMI connector. That's a given in 2021 still. Will change in time though.

You're missing the point again.

You joke, but it was awesome.

I had a key-lime iMac in 1999. I think it seemed the least offensive (to my eyes) colour they had in stock at the time. My parents used that for a long time after I left. I remember being there with a new laptop (a 2011 17") it had more RAM than the iMac had disk space - and that was before I did the 3rd party upgrade to 16GB.

The fact that the rumors only point to Magsafe and SD card means I reckon we won't be getting USB A.

Didn't the rumour just say "more ports"? I mean.. more USB4 ports is still more ports.

At this point I think he's just having some sort of identity crisis; that if the world works the way the rest of us live in it he's just not as special as he thinks he is, for having a few extra cables in his bag.

Have you read anything I've written about this?

You're suggesting that I feel superior for having a USB-C to HDMI cable "in my bag". No. You've missed the entire ****ing point.

I have zero need to connect a laptop to HDMI. I connect my mini to the HDMI input of a flat panel, for the odd case where the eGPU is being weird/unsupported - but I'd just as soon use that with an extra USB-C/TB3 port if they'd ****ing give me one. On a laptop this is a moot point because it has a built in display.

It's nothing to do with feeling superior. It's about wanting ports I use - just like how you want ports you use. The difference is, I can acknowledge that others don't necessarily want to use the same ports, and thus if the computer has the most adaptable port yet created, it means we can each do what we want, with an adapter if required.

it's just that I've never seen anyone get so damn upset about everyone else living happily

I've never seen a bunch of people complain so much about a $13 adapter, and yet here we are.

You're complaining about inconvenience. I'm concerned about your "convenience" making **** impossible for myself.

Having a regular sized HDMI-port is really all that's expected of people expected to hook their device up to something like this; and it's really the only way to come prepared.

Well, ignoring all the projectors that still have VGA or DVI inputs (which sure you can run from HDMI, but also require an adapter that you're apparently allergic to), if you know you need to connect to a HDMI projector, and your laptop only has USB-C ports, how is it anyone's fault but your own that you didn't bring a USB-C to HDMI adapter?

Would you also complain if they didn't provide you with a charger for your laptop?

The room you're giving your presentation in will be adjusted for that reality; and what it will not be adjusted for is people running around with their own cables looking for ports. Like you can't in the middle of a meeting refuse to the use the ducking cable infront of you, and start running around looking behind the tv/projector for a port, and then a table for your too short cable to reach, and then the remote to maybe have to switch "channel", and so on.

What the **** are you talking about?

This is thirteen god damn dollars, and gives you your precious female HDMI port. So either, you're not aware of this product, and thus have made zero effort to solve the "problem" at hand, or you are aware of this product, and you're ignoring it, because it's easier to whine about something when you make that something seem like a terribly complicated problem to solve, rather than the very minor inconvenience it is.

I believe his suggestion is

Praise be. Someone who actually reads, and comprehends.

When you're about to present, the last thing you want to think about is "where the heck is my adapter? Did I bring it?" Heck, people often get so nervous about their presentations that they just forget to bring the adapter.

What happens if you lost your adapter? These are tiny things so they're easy to replace. Buy a backup adapter? Where does it end?

The problem was, when I had to travel outside to give a presentation at a customer's office or when I gave tech talks at random places or I'm in a hotel and wanted to plug my laptop into the TV.

Perhaps Apple should also include a Valium dispensing port, and an underwear dispensing port? Anything else people forget that requires a laptop to have specialised ports? Perhaps macOS should prompt you every 30 seconds "are you about to disconnect/close the lid, and do you have a meeting somewhere without Wifi, and if so, did you copy all the documents you require to the local disk?".. or do you just work from a flash drive? Oh wait. But you might forget it.. or lose it.

Adapters/hubs are annoying.

You know what's annoying? Being forced to use a HDMI port because your computer only supports two DisplayPort outputs - and that's if the third display supports HDMI.

All the display makers such as Samsung, LG, Acer, Asus, HP, Dell have never said they plan to deprecate HDMI.

... What's that got to do with the price of fish?

We won't start seeing Display 2.0 (USB-C) devices until at least the end of 2021. And guess what will happen? There will be different implementations. Some manufactures will fail to support the full Display 2.0 specs. Some cables won't work. Some USB-C 4.0 ports won't have DP 2.0. In other words, it'll be the same mess as today.

Meanwhile, we have HDMI 2.1 TVs, GPUs, motherboards out today.

Are you seriously suggesting that HDMI is going to replace DisplayPort? Are you ****ing high?

Apple isn't going sacrifice other aspects of the Mac experience just to build these in.

Oh really? So I'm just imagining that the "3x 4k" support in any Mac mini since 2018 has that little caveat that one display has to connect via HDMI? A port that neither any of their own first party displays for the last two decades, nor the port on the 3rd party "special Mac supporting" display that Apple sells, is compatible with?

There is zero evidence to suggest that adding "different" ports would mean simply adding ports, and leaving the existing ones. Zero.

I would say you're hoping for an outcome where they simply "add" HDMI or USB-A or a floppy disk or whatever other things you want, but I don't even think you are, because clearly so long as it has HDMI your ****s to give about what other ports it has, are in the middle of -1 and +1.

USB-C is only going to become convenient once other manufacturers and technologies have caught up

Again: you want convenience. You admit that what you want to do, is very possible, and neither expensive nor cumbersome. A USB-C to HDMI adapter is small, it's cheap, and it works. It's slightly inconvenient.

But the port isn't limited to being HDMI. It could be DisplayPort, or two HDMI, or two DisplayPort, or two HDMI and ethernet, or HDMI and Ethernet and USB and a card reader...

Meanwhile the HDMI port is still just a HDMI port.

 

[Stephen.R]

But SpaceX's Falcon 9 does use booster rockets...

I don't remember the space shuttle having boosters that (a) weren't just disposable and (b) autonomously landed themselves upright, on a floating platform in the ocean, that's also autonomous.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Oh dear. I had no idea someone could become so upset over the prospect of a device including ports they wish not to use.

Choo-choo "All aboard the train to USB-C-Ville!"

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I don't remember the space shuttle having boosters that (a) weren't just disposable and (b) autonomously landed themselves upright, on a floating platform in the ocean, that's also autonomous.

Did you refer to this sustainability or automation in your original post? No.

 

[Stephen.R]

Oh dear. I had no idea someone could become so upset over the prospect of a device including ports they wish not to use.

Choo-choo "All aboard the train to USB-C-Ville!"

And again, I had no idea someone could get so upset over the idea that other people don't need or want to use HDMI.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

And again, I had no idea someone could get so upset over the idea that other people don't need or want to use HDMI.

I don't recall displaying any signs of being upset.

Then again, I'm not the one who wrote an essay-of-a-post, repeatedly swearing and insulting other people for wanting additional I/O on a computer.

 

[Stephen.R]

Did you refer to this sustainability or automation in your original post? No.

The original post referencing rocket boosters wasn't mine, so no. But it did hint at the idea of the difference being an old design.

 

[senttoschool]

These people are seriously saying that you're like NASA if you want HDMI/USB-A in the next MBP and you're like SpaceX if you don't. ???

 

[Falhófnir]

If Apple thought like that, we would still be using optical drives, HDDs and VGA ports. There has to be somebody, who pushes forward.

This is really toxic thinking. Let everybody else take risks, I'll just sit back and stay in the past.

I don't think it's quite the same with this, in those cases those technologies were already on the way out, and, crucially, the successor tech offered a clear all round improvement as a compelling reason to upgrade. USB C/ USB 4 isn't quite in the same category. Yes it does have it's own essential use cases, but a lot of what is does is just duplicating functionality from other connectors, not necessarily doing it better, and of course as @senttoschool says there's the mess of dyssynchronous specs that are difficult to tell apart unless you really know what you're looking for. Basically, while for some it offers the ultimate flexible set up, for a lot of people it just means you can do what you could do before, but you now need an adapter to do it (or make that the right adapter to do it, and it might not be immediately obvious for a less techy user).

 

[Stephen.R]

I don't recall displaying any signs of being upset.

Then again, I'm not the one who wrote an essay-of-a-post, repeatedly swearing and insulting other people for wanting additional I/O on a computer.

I responded with one post to respond to the posts from the last four hours.

I would have been able to cut out a big chunk if people actually read and comprehended what I had posted earlier, rather than missing the point repeatedly, and then making weird responses based on their lack of understanding of the point I was making.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I responded with one post to respond to the posts from the last four hours.

I would have been able to cut out a big chunk if people actually read and comprehended what I had posted earlier, rather than missing the point repeatedly, and then making weird responses based on their lack of understanding of the point I was making.

You're actually skirting the point I made. You're the one getting your briefs in a twist over this discussion, as evidenced by the fact you took the time to write an unnecessarily long post that had the sole purpose of insulting other people - for what, having opinions?

 

[Stephen.R]

there's the mess of dyssynchronous specs that are difficult to tell apart unless you really know what you're looking for

Right because no one has ever bought a HDMI device or cable and found that it didn't support the resolution or refresh rate that they want to use. Never. Totally not a thing.

 

[senttoschool]

That's it. We won't come to an understanding, because we want different things in tech. Somebody made a really great analogy with NASA before. You're like NASA. Let's use those Space Shuttle boosters from the 60s fifty years later. We've been to the Moon, we are the best.

I'm like SpaceX. Iterate, advance, explore new solutions.

Don't stop there man.

If you want USB-C only, you have more sex, have more money, foster more offsprings, have a higher IQ, have more Twitter followers, and is genetically closer to Elon Musk.

I love this thread. ?

 

[Stephen.R]

You're actually skirting the point I made.

Didn't you know that's all anyone does in this thread? Missing the point.

as evidenced by the fact you took the time to write an unnecessarily long post

I took the time to write one post, and responded to the twenty posts from the previous four hours.

that had the sole purpose of insulting other people - for what, having opinions

And you're complaining that I'm "skirting the point" ?

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

I don't think it's quite the same with this, in those cases those technologies were already on the way out, and, crucially, the successor tech offered a clear all round improvement as a compelling reason to upgrade. USB C/ USB 4 isn't quite in the same category. Yes it does have it's own essential use cases, but a lot of what is does is just duplicating functionality from other connectors, not necessarily doing it better, and of course as @senttoschool says there's the mess of dyssynchronous specs that are difficult to tell apart unless you really know what you're looking for. Basically, while for some it offers the ultimate flexible set up, for a lot of people it just means you can do what you could do before, but you now need an adapter to do it (or make that the right adapter to do it, and it might not be immediately obvious for a less techy user).

Precisely.

No-one in their right mind is suggesting that USB-C is any way, shape or form bad, but rather that it's only going to be useful in one of two scenarios;

1. power-users that require multiple technologies (i.e audio, video, data, power) through a single stream or large transfer bandwidths; or

2. manufacturers collectively choose to make a push for the technology and abandon everything else that has come before it.

 

[Stephen.R]

I don't recall displaying any signs of being upset.

Are you sure?

 

[pshufd]

There just isn't a plan to replace HDMI for USB-C. All the display makers such as Samsung, LG, Acer, Asus, HP, Dell have never said they plan to deprecate HDMI.

We won't start seeing Display 2.0 (USB-C) devices until at least the end of 2021. And guess what will happen? There will be different implementations. Some manufactures will fail to support the full Display 2.0 specs. Some cables won't work. Some USB-C 4.0 ports won't have DP 2.0. In other words, it'll be the same mess as today.

Meanwhile, we have HDMI 2.1 TVs, GPUs, motherboards out today.

All of my 4K and QHD monitors have DisplayPort, MiniDisplayPort and HDMI. I have one with USB-C but I think that it's just a hub that connects to USB-A ports. I have USB-C on only a few devices and they're unused. I'm staying with the old ecosystem for as long as I can as the old stuff works and the new stuff would be a few hundred. Sure, it's probably faster; but that's not really appealing to me for the grief.

 

[Apple Knowledge Navigator]

Absolutely. Do you know why I used that angry (not upset) face? Because you've, quite literally, contributed nothing constructive to this discussion. Rather than accepting and then agreeing or disagreeing with others opinions, you made the choice of belittling them.

I'm not "upset" over anything to do with any of the technologies discussed in this thread, but your attitude leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[darngooddesign]

I see two problems with this suggestion of his:

1. When you're about to present, the last thing you want to think about is "where the heck is my adapter? Did I bring it?" Heck, people often get so nervous about their presentations that they just forget to bring the adapter.

You only do that once or twice before you learn to bring it with you, or you stop giving presentations, or you get a different laptop.