What ports should make a return to the 2021 Macbook Pro?

[senttoschool]

I was told 5 years ago that 'in just 3-4 years everything will move over to USB-C', and I've heard the same ever since with very little evidence that it's doing anything other than forcing people to buy adapters because some fancy laptops are USB-C only but the vast majority of accessories still don't use it.

And yet my headphones charge with micro-USB. My mouse and keyboard are on USB-A. And every time I need to connect something other than my nifty dual sided USB drive to my MacBook I have to go sifting around for an adapter.

Frankly, on the top end pro I would love to see the return of all those ports but realistically 2 USB-C, 2 USB-A, and an SD card slot would be a-okay for me.

5 years later, Xbox Series X doesn't even bother to come with any USB-C ports - just 3x USB-A.

USB-C has become the "here's one port just in case you need it" while USB-A is still the standard port for nearly all accessories.

USB-C microchip controllers cost more, cables cost more, accessories cost more. Yet, USB-C offers no benefit for 99.9% of accessories.

And it's quite clear that USB-C won't replace HDMI for displays. HDMI is cheaper, more compatible, and most importantly, is more capable than USB-C for displays.

So if 99.9% of accessories don't benefit from USB-C and HDMI is superior for displays, then USB-C is just a specialized port or a port you plug your hub into. This is exactly the state of USB-C in 2021.

 

[LordeOurMother]

A USB a port, and an SD card would be solid.

 

[KPOM]

One of them is a wired gaming mouse. The other one is a USB-A receiver from my Logitech MX 2S mouse - which has Bluetooth latency issues when paired with my M1 Air. In addition, I still charge my iPhone XR, which came with a USB-A cable from Apple, with my laptop. Lastly, I have a USB-A flash drive. In total, I have 4x USB-A devices that I frequently use.

I'd like to live a hub-free, adapter-free, dongle-free, stress-free life.

The iPhone 11 Pro and all iPhone 12 models ship with USB-C to Lightning cables.Plus, you can get a USB-C to Lightning cable for your iPhone XR. It will even charge your phone faster if you get the USB-C charger or use the USB-C port on a Mac. There are also USB-C flash drives (though flash drives are less popular now because of security concerns).

 

[senttoschool]

The iPhone 11 Pro and all iPhone 12 models ship with USB-C to Lightning cables.Plus, you can get a USB-C to Lightning cable for your iPhone XR. It will even charge your phone faster if you get the USB-C charger or use the USB-C port on a Mac. There are also USB-C flash drives (though flash drives are less popular now because of security concerns).

I don't have an iPhone 11 Pro or iPhone 12.

But yes, with money and a conscious that lets you throw away/replace perfectly good accessories/cables, then you can solve this problem for yourself.

 

[Stephen.R]

So if 99.9% of accessories don't benefit from USB-C and HDMI is superior for displays, then USB-C is just a specialized port or a port you plug your hub into. This is exactly the state of USB-C in 2021.

I think you need to follow your username and go back to school. You’re either being disingenuous or you have no clue what you’re talking about.

hdmi is inferior to USB-c for displays. It can do nothing but hdmi, it can’t carry power, and no one seriously uses the “ethernet” versions for displays.

usb-c is specifically not a “specialised” port. It can adapt to almost any I/o port that a pc or laptop would or could have.

 

[senttoschool]

I think you need to follow your username and go back to school. You’re either being disingenuous or you have no clue what you’re talking about.

hdmi is inferior to USB-c for displays. It can do nothing but hdmi, it can’t carry power, and no one seriously uses the “ethernet” versions for displays.

usb-c is specifically not a “specialised” port. It can adapt to almost any I/o port that a pc or laptop would or could have.

HDMI 2.1 is superior for displays. It supports 4K, 5K, 8K and 10K at 120 Hz. These are not supported with USB-C. HDMI is more capable. More available. Better adopted.

/Sent To School

 

[svanstrom]

For the people saying that everything comes with USB-A…

My one year old computer (MBP16) and display (LG UltraFine 4k) are USB-C only; and the only USB-A that I'm regularly using is because my 2019 Apple Watch came with a USB-A charge cable, so I've got that still on its own charger.

However, (just in case anyone stalks my website ?) once outside of the Apple ecosystem I do regularly use USB-A stuff; and it does happen that I have to use a power bank (from zendure) just to lazily power legacy stuff at my desk.

My take on this is simply that when you look at USB-C usage in real life it has become a pro port; either to signal that a device is "pro", or that is primarily added to more expensive stuff targeting people that consider themselves belonging to that type of "pro" users.

 

[senttoschool]

For the people saying that everything comes with USB-A…

My one year old computer (MBP16) and display (LG UltraFine 4k) are USB-C only; and the only USB-A that I'm regularly using is because my 2019 Apple Watch came with a USB-A charge cable, so I've got that still on its own charger.

However, (just in case anyone stalks my website ?) once outside of the Apple ecosystem I do regularly use USB-A stuff; and it does happen that I have to use a power bank (from zendure) just to lazily power legacy stuff at my desk.

My take on this is simply that when you look at USB-C usage in real life it has become a pro port; either to signal that a device is "pro", or that is primarily added to more expensive stuff targeting people that consider themselves belonging to that type of "pro" users.

That's right.

As soon you step into the "real world", it's not safe to not carry a USB-A dongle/hub.

Everyone here is arguing that USB-C is superior to USB-A and that all accessories come with USB-C versions. No ****. That's not that point. The point is, for anyone who lives in the real world, the odds that you need to plug in a USB-A accessory is high and not decreasing anytime soon. Thus, you need to carry a dongle/hub which is inconvenient, bad for the environment, and costs money.

 

[Stephen.R]

HDMI 2.1 is superior for displays. It supports 4K, 5K, 8K and 10K at 120 Hz. These are not supported with USB-C. HDMI is more capable. More available. Better adopted.

/Sent To School

Great, and DP 2.0, which will work fine on USB-c connectors (just as hdmi will) supports up to 16K or multiple 10K displays etc etc on a single cable.

this is the basic point I’m trying to make to you: USB-c/tb ports can provide hdmi with no issues. Hdmi ports can only provide hdmi.

go read the forums here where people ask about which connection to use for a display. hdmi is almost unanimously the “last” choice recommended because it has the highest propensity to cause issues when used for a computer display.

 

[senttoschool]

Great, and DP 2.0, which will work fine on USB-c connectors (just as hdmi will) supports up to 16K or multiple 10K displays etc etc on a single cable.

this is the basic point I’m trying to make to you: USB-c/tb ports can provide hdmi with no issues. Hdmi ports can only provide hdmi.

go read the forums here where people ask about which connection to use for a display. hdmi is almost unanimously the “last” choice recommended because it has the highest propensity to cause issues when used for a computer display.

Where can I buy a Macbook/computer that supports DP 2.0?

 

[Stephen.R]

Where can I buy a Macbook/computer that supports DP 2.0?

Where can you buy a MacBook that supports hdmi 2.1?

 

[senttoschool]

Where can you buy a MacBook that supports hdmi 2.1?

Maybe as soon as the new Macbook Pro 14"/16" comes out.

But more importantly, which TV/Monitor has announced support for DP 2.0?

Here's a list of current 4k and 8k displays that support HDMI 2.1:

List: 4K TVs and 8K TVs with HDMI 2.1

TVs with HDMI 2.1 ports plus features like VRR, ALLM, eARC and QMS

www.flatpanelshd.com

 

[svanstrom]

That's right.

As soon you step into the "real world", it's not safe to not carry a USB-A dongle/hub.

Everyone here is arguing that USB-C is superior to USB-A and that all accessories come with USB-C versions. No ****. That's not that point. The point is, for anyone who lives in the real world, the odds that you need to plug in a USB-A accessory is high and not decreasing anytime soon. Thus, you need to carry a dongle/hub which is inconvenient, bad for the environment, and costs money.

I've never (in recent time) in the "real world" come across a legitimate reason why I would give other people's stuff hardware access to my computer; outside of me connecting to some sort of display/projector that is.

It's the same reason why you won't catch me connecting anything with data-wires in it to any of the free charging USB-ports you sometimes find in public places.

 

[Stephen.R]

Maybe as soon as the new Macbook Pro 14"/16" comes out.

That is possible. If Apple tries to cover all their customers rather than pandering to the noisy few, they'll add support for HDMI 2.1 output over whichever spec of TB3/USB4/TB4 ports it has, rather than adding a single-use physical connector that permanently steals a video stream.

But more importantly, which TV/Monitor has announced support for DP 2.0?

I don't know of any television that has any support for DisplayPort, because DisplayPort is a protocol that's used as it was designed: for computer displays.

Additionally, the DisplayPort spec generally provides features before they're needed, to allow for future product types.

For example, HDMI 2.1, announced/released in 2017 is a huge boost in data rate from HDMI 2.0 which was released in 2013. When 2.0 was released in 2013, it was already behind DisplayPort: it had just 83% of DP 1.2's data rate, released 3 years earlier.

DisplayPort has had incremental updates more frequently: A year after HDMI 2.0 came out, DP 1.3 came out, taking the bandwidth to nearly double that of HDMI 2.0.

So the 2017 release of HDMI 2.1 is a sorely needed revision, to enable higher resolution TVs etc, but the lack of displays released with DP 2.0 is partly due to the much more recent, capable previous version it's replacing.

Here's a list of current 4k and 8k displays that support HDMI 2.1:

That's a list of televisions. But good job conflating the two, so you can find more "high end" stuff that supports HDMI, the protocol developed by, and for, the television industry.

 

[Serban55]

Apple i dont think will bring back an old usbA when the there is UsbC/usb4 for some time now...so 1% chance there..... a lot of new cars also adopts usbC only
So only port i see its , i guess, sd card or something like that

magsafe.. i dont see it return like it was in the past...since the mbp will be flat ....i see them like its on ipad pro....and maybe soon, like iphone 13 will be... dots for magnetic charging instead of lightning port...

 

[senttoschool]

That is possible. If Apple tries to cover all their customers rather than pandering to the noisy few, they'll add support for HDMI 2.1 output over whichever spec of TB3/USB4/TB4 ports it has, rather than adding a single-use physical connector that permanently steals a video stream.


I don't know of any television that has any support for DisplayPort, because DisplayPort is a protocol that's used as it was designed: for computer displays.

Additionally, the DisplayPort spec generally provides features before they're needed, to allow for future product types.

For example, HDMI 2.1, announced/released in 2017 is a huge boost in data rate from HDMI 2.0 which was released in 2013. When 2.0 was released in 2013, it was already behind DisplayPort: it had just 83% of DP 1.2's data rate, released 3 years earlier.

DisplayPort has had incremental updates more frequently: A year after HDMI 2.0 came out, DP 1.3 came out, taking the bandwidth to nearly double that of HDMI 2.0.

So the 2017 release of HDMI 2.1 is a sorely needed revision, to enable higher resolution TVs etc, but the lack of displays released with DP 2.0 is partly due to the much more recent, capable previous version it's replacing.


That's a list of televisions. But good job conflating the two, so you can find more "high end" stuff that supports HDMI, the protocol developed by, and for, the television industry.

This is a long post talking about technicals. Let's step back into the real world, shall we?

The fact is, all TVs/monitors support HDMI. All future TVs/monitors/projects will continue to support HDMI, including HDMI 2.1. Display Port 2.0? Ehh... very few/niche displays will support it and you'll likely have to pay a DP 2.0 tax on it.

So we're going to end up in the exact situation we have today. If you want an all USB-C setup, you'll have to buy new stuff and pay USB-C tax. If don't want to do that, you'll have to buy an expensive hub/dongle/cable that converts HDMI 2.1 into USB-C DP 2.0. As soon as you step outside like go into a client's office, you have to bring your hub/dongle/cable with you.

Basically, nothing will change unless Apple includes an HDMI port.

 

[/V\acpower]

It’s a demand and supply question. As more accessories start using USB-C, more hubs will appear on the market.

But USB-A is dead. It’s not compatible with newer USB standard. It is a slow and agonizing death but it’s a done deal.

From what I've read, searching for it a while ago, it's more complicated.

It seems that the chip to do cheap "USB C port multiplication" was simply non existent for many years, until very recently.

IMO it's just insane that they never considered the need for that until very recently. Without such hubs, it's impossible to use more USB C device at once than the number of port you already have on your machine, but you can connect as many USB A devices if you want to !

 

[Stephen.R]

The fact is, all TVs/monitors support HDMI.

a. Please stop conflating monitors and televisions. They are different things.

b. Please show evidence that all monitors support HDMI. Hint: I already know you can't because that is simply not true.

you'll have to buy an expensive hub/dongle/cable that converts HDMI 2.1 into USB-C DP 2.0.

Either you haven't been reading what I or anyone else wrote, or you're trolling.

You don't need to convert DisplayPort to HDMI (although that is also possible, with a passive adapter), USB-C has native alt-mode support to carry a HDMI signal.
A USB-C hub, that provides 3+ USB3.0, HDMI, SD (and usually micro SD too) - for those playing at home that's more "legacy" ports than the oft referenced 2015 MBP15 ever had - costs about $25, and takes up about as much space as the charger, albeit a longer, thinner shape.

 

[senttoschool]

a. Please stop conflating monitors and televisions. They are different things.

b. Please show evidence that all monitors support HDMI. Hint: I already know you can't because that is simply not true.

a. I wrote TVs/Monitors. They all use HDMI.

b. You know what I mean. Listen, only two monitors don't support HDMI: LG 5k and Pro XDR. Some niche small portable LCDs also don't support HDMI. Other than those, I cannot find another mainstream monitor that does not support HDMI. When I say "all displays support HDMI", I don't mean that every single one on the planet. Any reasonable person would presume that I meant all standard displays support HDMI.

 

[Stephen.R]

When I say "all displays support HDMI", I don't mean that every single one on the planet.

So, when you said "all", you meant some.

 

[senttoschool]

So, when you said "all", you meant some.

I was hoping you'd be reasonable. But now I will define "all" as in non-LG 5k, non-Pro XDR, and non-niche portable LCDs.

Maybe you can enlighten me of other displays that support USB-C but not HDMI?

 

[svanstrom]

I was hoping you'd be reasonable. But now I will define "all" as in non-LG 5k, non-Pro XDR, and non-niche portable LCDs.

Maybe you can enlighten me of other displays that support USB-C but not HDMI?

Well, there's my LG 4k… ?

 

[cupcakes2000]

I'd like Apple to include at least one USB-A in the newest Pros along with HDMI 2.1

Currently using 2x USB-A devices and 1x HDMI.

Then you’ll still need a hub.

I am ready for a dongle/hub free life.

In total, I have 4x USB-A devices that I frequently use.

Then you’ll need an even bigger hub.

I'd like to live a hub-free, adapter-free, dongle-free, stress-free life.

No, even though you can’t make up your mind just how many usb a accessories you use, whether it’s 2 or 4, you’ll still need a hub with the one port you’re desperate for Apple inflict upon us. I have an idea. Buy that usb a hub (the one you’ll need anyway) and stick a usb c cable on it ?.

 

[Stephen.R]

Maybe you can enlighten me of other displays that support USB-C but not HDMI?

Strawman much?

I never said a lot of displays don't support HDMI.

HDMI is by far, the last-resort connection for anyone who knows what the **** they are doing, or has advice from someone who knows what they are doing. Don't take my word for it: go look at the MR forums where people ask this very question: should I use DP or HDMI. Overwhelmingly people with experience will advise to use DP whenever possible, be that native full DP ports, Mini DP, or DP over USB-C/TB3.


So, let me ask this in a direct manner: given that adding a physical HDMI port is almost guaranteed to mean one less video stream available via TB3/USB-C (which on the M1 Mac laptops to date, would mean only HDMI for external displays), why do you think providing HDMI, which can do nothing but run an HDMI (or DVI, or VGA, but I thought you were allergic to adapters?) display, is better than providing USB-C, which can run HDMI, DisplayPort, or native USB-C displays?

 

[svanstrom]

So, let me ask this in a direct manner: given that adding a physical HDMI port is almost guaranteed to mean one less video stream available via TB3/USB-C (which on the M1 Mac laptops to date, would mean only HDMI for external displays), why do you think providing HDMI, which can do nothing but run an HDMI (or DVI, or VGA, but I thought you were allergic to adapters?) display, is better than providing USB-C, which can run HDMI, DisplayPort, or native USB-C displays?

You can easily have two+ ports supporting video even if you can only use one at a time; there's nothing that prevents that.

For a practical example just look at my MBP16; which has four USB-C ports, but doesn't necessarily handle 4 displays: Use multiple displays with your MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019).

Internally the HDMI-port could just be handled as if an USB-C to HDMI cable was used.