What will be the key to success for 2013 and beyond?

[Rolla]

When I started looking for a phone to replace my iP4, I immediately had 3 phones in mind, the HTC One, the GS4, or to wait on the 5s. I eventually decided on the GS4. For me it was the software features and the bigger screen in a body that's no bigger than the HTC One. I love how it looks like it's all screen on the front. For me, big bezels are extremely unattractive and very outdated in looks. Sort of how you look at a current TV or monitor with big bezels. Yuk, no thanks. But I think software features will be the key to success at this point. And currently Samsung seems to be the one to really pushing the envelope for software features on a phone. And above all they give you the option to turn them on/off. I know a lot of us on the tech blogs and forums are demanding premium materials and feel. But I don't believe the general public cares about that. The Galaxy line has been plastic all these years, and the sales keep going through the roof. And to be honest I love the feel of these phones, plastic and all. They're not built cheaply with low quality standards. In fact the GS4 cost more to make than the iPhone 5.
So do you think 2013 will be a pivotal year for companies like HTC and BB? Have other OEMs done enough with software features on their 2013 offerings? Or is there still lots of time for the OEMs to react to Apple and Samsung cornering the market?

 

[zbarvian]

I think the point about bezels rings true for me as well. Once you see a phone with small bezels, phones like the HTC One look outdated in comparison. The S4 is better in that aspect, but we still aren't even close to this AUO demo. I'm hoping handset manufacturers will start trimming the borders like crazy this year; that'll probably win me over.

 

[LorPGDL]

how can you in one sentence say you had the iphone 5s in mind and in the next one find big bezels outdated and extremely unattractive?

the bezel on the iphone 5 must induce a permanent gagging reflex when you look at it

anyways for me neither the iphone 5s (most likely) nor the gs 4 (definitely) have anything to offer that would make me really forgo my samsung note.

the htc one, however, looks mighty fine, if the camera is really as good as claimed in low light then that could really make me switch, as im shooting a lot partying or whatever in the night and using flash is extremely irritating to people.

will see.

edit: btw, if you hate bezels so much you should check out the sony zl- its the phone with the best bezel to size ratio of them all. 75 %

 

[Rolla]

how can you in one sentence say you had the iphone 5s in mind and in the next one find big bezels outdated and extremely unattractive?

edit: btw, if you hate bezels so much you should check out the sony zl- its the phone with the best bezel to size ratio of them all. 75 %

Well I had it in mind out of sheer habbit. I've stuck with Apple for the most part out of comfort, so thinking of getting the next iPhone with the possibility of iOS 7 being fresh and new would have been an obvious choice for my next phone. I did say software matters, and let's be honest, Apple's software is rock solid stable, for the most part. Logical, no? But I also now find myself wanting a bigger screen at a time where Android has become very stable and incredibly robust. Especially Samsung's version of Android. Put it this way, there are so many people that hate plastic, yet they still bought a GS3. The same way there will be many who say they would prefer the aluminum build of the HTC One, but will still buy the plastic GS4. Just because you hate one aspect of a phone, doesn't take it off your list of possible next devices. We're at a time now where I feel there is no reason to have such massive bezels wasting space on our device. I want more screen with less phone. And that's exactly what the GS4 is. But I want great software too. The Sony is great looking phone, but their screens have gotten some really bad reviews, and their software and UI just don't appeal to me at the moment.

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I think the point about bezels rings true for me as well. Once you see a phone with small bezels, phones like the HTC One look outdated in comparison. The S4 is better in that aspect, but we still aren't even close to this AUO demo. I'm hoping handset manufacturers will start trimming the borders like crazy this year; that'll probably win me over.

Yes, we need less bezel, but I don't think edge to edge will ever be a possibility from a practical standpoint. This is because we still need to hold our phones, and if we had edge to edge, our fingers would be touching the screen when we grabbed our phones. This would inadvertently launch an app or feature. But I do like the bezels on that AUO.

 

[zbarvian]

Yes, we need less bezel, but I don't think edge to edge will ever be a possibility from a practical standpoint. This is because we still need to hold our phones, and if we had edge to edge, our fingers would be touching the screen when we grabbed our phones. This would inadvertently launch an app or feature. But I do like the bezels on that AUO.

Maybe not edge to edge, but I don't think it's much of a practicality concern. Do people really touch the screen much when they hold it? Besides, Apple showed how you can do it with the iPad Mini's finger rejection software.

 

[onthecouchagain]

If 2013 really comes down to software, I don't know how the crown doesn't go to Samsung.

Even when compared to Sense or Sony's skin, TouchWiz is brimming with features. Many of them are gimmicky, but still push the envelope of what's possible on a smartphone. Gesture based controls may not always be practical, but it is pretty novel in a smartphone.

And amidst the plethora of features, there are some real gems:

Multi-window and Smart Stay I've always thought were cool. Now there's Smart Pause, Quick Glance, Auto Unlock Zone among others... just things that really feel like they're putting the "smart" in smartphone.

I honestly do not see anyone else pushing new and exciting things software wise.

 

[zbarvian]

If 2013 really comes down to software, I don't know how the crown doesn't go to Samsung.

Even when compared to Sense or Sony's skin, TouchWiz is brimming with features. Many of them are gimmicky, but still push the envelope of what's possible on a smartphone. Gesture based controls may not always be practical, but it is pretty novel in a smartphone.

And amidst the plethora of features, there are some real gems:

Multi-window and Smart Stay I've always thought were cool. Now there's Smart Pause, Quick Glance, Auto Unlock Zone among others... just things that really feel like they're putting the "smart" in smartphone.

I honestly do not see anyone else pushing new and exciting things software wise.

Yes, yes, we get it. But how can you award them for touting complete gimmicks? Not one of those features looks remotely useful, and nearly all are just totally impractical. Not to mention, the software is still bloated, slow, and ugly. I think maybe two of the features are actually usable, but none are cool enough to be game changing, nor can they overcome the mediocre design and build quality.

If you think that the number of features, useless as they may be, is the objective standard for smartphone operating systems, then you really have a warped perception of mobile software. That's not innovative, and it certainly isn't commendable.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

Yes, yes, we get it. But how can you award them for touting complete gimmicks (IN MY OPINION)? Not one of those features looks remotely useful, and nearly all are just totally impractical (IN MY OPINION). Not to mention, the software is still bloated, slow, and ugly (IN MY OPINION). I think maybe two of the features are actually usable, but none are cool enough to be game changing, nor can they overcome the mediocre design and build quality (IN MY OPINION).

If you think that the number of features, useless as they may be (IN MY OPINION), is the objective standard for smartphone operating systems, then you really have a warped perception of mobile software (IN MY OPINION). That's not innovative, and it certainly isn't commendable (IN MY OPINION).

Fixed that for you.

 

[zbarvian]

Fixed that for you.

Tell that to couchie. I think most people are smart enough to assume that when individuals make subjective statements, they are speaking their opinion and not claiming their statements to be fact. But if you want to insert the phrase after every opinion, then go ahead.

Back on topic: the key to 2013 success will be marketing, as usual, and perceived innovation. The smartphone market has become rather stagnant, and if we're talking at a macro level, then those two factors will probably remain most important.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Yes, yes, we get it. But how can you award them for touting complete gimmicks? Not one of those features looks remotely useful, and nearly all are just totally impractical. Not to mention, the software is still bloated, slow, and ugly. I think maybe two of the features are actually usable, but none are cool enough to be game changing, nor can they overcome the mediocre design and build quality.

If you think that the number of features, useless as they may be, is the objective standard for smartphone operating systems, then you really have a warped perception of mobile software. That's not innovative, and it certainly isn't commendable.

It hurts, doesn't it, that the company you so despise is pushing the envelope of what smartphones can do, huh?

Sorry you feel that way.

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perceived innovation.

Haha. You mean innovation by Apple, right?

Hey, Z, remember our conversation about what innovation means a while back? If I recall correctly, it's only innovation if Apple does it -- you practically admitted it as much.

Right.

 

[onthecouchagain]

May I remind you, Z?

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1491565/

In the above thread, you said Apple making the iPhone 5 thinner and lighter is innovation.

Yet when asked whether Samsung or any of the numerous OEMs out there were innovating when they made devices lighter/thinner for two years during the 4 and 4S era, you said, no; those times don't count because they didn't have good engineering.

You also said it's innovation that Apple is designing their own "killer chips". What's Samsung been doing with their chips, then? Show me a post where you claim Samsung is innovating every time they put out a new killer chip.

You then said something about innovation needing to have practicality and function, to which it was pointed out to you that there is a myriad of functionality with plastic back devices (NFC, SD expansion, battery expansion/replacement, customized backplates), but not once have I ever witness you consider plastic an innovation. In fact, it's something you constantly berate.

You lower the bar to define Apple's innovation while raising it to deny it to others.

If you can't see what you're doing, if you really can't see that you're moving the goal posts; not playing fair; being inconsistent, then this truly is a losing argument.

Here's your response. This is important:

Fair enough. Next time someone else makes their phone crazy thin given the internals and relative thickness of other similarly-sized devices, I'll laud them too.

Ah, the S4 is thinner than the S3 (while offering a larger battery, larger screen, has new sensors, etc!) and thinner than a number of other devices in the same tier (HTC One, Sony Xperia Z, LG Optimus G).

So, can we get a Zbarian seal of "Innovation" for the Samsung Galaxy S4? Let's hear it.

 

[zbarvian]

It hurts, doesn't it, that the company you so despise is pushing the envelope of what smartphones can do, huh?

Sorry you feel that way.

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Haha. You mean innovation by Apple, right?

Hey, Z, remember our conversation about what innovation means a while back? If I recall correctly, it's only innovation if Apple does it -- you practically admitted it as much.

Right.

Samsung is pushing the envelope of what smartphones can do by incorporating useless features? So instead of swiping on the screen, I can wave my hand over it and hope the half-baked motion gesture works. Really pushing the envelope by giving me the humidity reading outside. If you think it's really innovative, then that's fine, but understand that's subjective, not objective. That's why I used the phrase "perceived innovation," not "true innovation." Perception is reality, and if the masses find Siri or S Beam innovative, and if the respective phones are properly marketed, then those two factors will determine success. That's how it always is in the high-end smartphone market.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Samsung is pushing the envelope of what smartphones can do by incorporating useless features? So instead of swiping on the screen, I can wave my hand over it and hope the half-baked motion gesture works. Really pushing the envelope by giving me the humidity reading outside. If you think it's really innovative, then that's fine, but understand that's subjective, not objective. That's why I used the phrase "perceived innovation," not "true innovation." Perception is reality, and if the masses find Siri or S Beam innovative, and if the respective phones are properly marketed, then those two factors will determine success. That's how it always is in the high-end smartphone market.

Please, tell me what envelope Apple is pushing? I mean, besides people's tolerance of small screens and getting lost.

Also, see my post above, please: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/17079397/

I'd love to see you stay true to your word. Or will we get another example of you moving the goal posts again for your definition of innovation?

 

[zbarvian]

Please, tell me what envelope Apple is pushing? I mean, besides people's tolerance of small screens and getting lost.

Also, see my post above, please: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/17079397/

I'd love to see you stay true to your word. Or will we get another example of you moving the goal posts again for your definition of innovation?

My definition of innovation and yours don't need to be the same, nor do they need to be fixed. You act like me changing my opinion over time is a crime (though I still agree with much of the content in that link). For example, now I think that super tiny bezels and borders are innovative, whereas I didn't before. Samsung and the S4 is innovative on that front, and the HTC One is not. What exactly are you trying to prove, that I'm inconsistent and hypocritical? Give me a break.

But seriously, back on topic. Nearly every thread in this forum devolves to frivolous bickering, so I'm gonna stop now.

 

[onthecouchagain]

It's sad what blind loyalty does.

 

[bmac4]

Samsung is pushing the envelope of what smartphones can do by incorporating useless features? So instead of swiping on the screen, I can wave my hand over it and hope the half-baked motion gesture works. Really pushing the envelope by giving me the humidity reading outside. If you think it's really innovative, then that's fine, but understand that's subjective, not objective. That's why I used the phrase "perceived innovation," not "true innovation." Perception is reality, and if the masses find Siri or S Beam innovative, and if the respective phones are properly marketed, then those two factors will determine success. That's how it always is in the high-end smartphone market.

I am so sick all you guys saying these samsung features are useless. You keep saying this crap until Apple does it, and then it is something great. Smart stay is one of the most used features on my phone. I can be reading an article on the browser and instead of having to touch the screen every five seconds it stays on until I look away. Also having two windows open at the same time is great. I can watch a YouTube video and browse the internet at the same time. Just because the iphone does not have does not make it useless. Also I think the S4 is very nice phone spec wise. Features are not everything, but they sure can add to a great phone.

 

[onthecouchagain]

I am so sick all you guys saying these samsung features are useless. You keep saying this crap until Apple does it, and then it is something great. Smart stay is one of the most used features on my phone. I can be reading an article on the browser and instead of having to touch the screen every five seconds it stays on until I look away. Also having two windows open at the same time is great. I can watch a YouTube video and browse the internet at the same time. Just because the iphone does not have does not make it useless. Also I think the S4 is very nice phone spec wise. Features are not everything, but they sure can add to a great phone.

I'm really excited about "Smart Orientation" too.

I often use my smartphone while laying down and it's annoying when the device doesn't realize I'm still looking at the device in portrait mode even if I'm doing so sideways. It'll switch to landscape when I don't want it to.

Again... putting the smart in smartphone.

 

[zbarvian]

It's sad what blind loyalty does.

Oh I'm sorry, was that comment directed to me? I'm not loyal to Apple, I'm bored of them and disgruntled. They aren't doing anything interesting in my eyes--notice how I haven't lauded any of their recent efforts. Unfortunately, though, nobody else seems to be able to make a great phone. There are exceptions: the HTC One definitely fills my hardware criteria, but I'm still not enthralled with Android for the reasons I've mentioned exhaustively. I'm expecting that to change with the arrival of 5.0 and Google's own entry into the hardware space. My ostensible "loyalty" to Apple is merely coincidental; they're the only ones I see who consistently get design, apps, and hardware right. The iPhone 5 hardware is far from perfect or ideal (I still lament the small screen), but it's probably the best balance of hardware and software IN MY OPINION, based on MY EXPECTATIONS.

Google Glass, Google Now, automated cars, Google Maps, can it even be disputed that Google is teeming with innovation? Of course not. But Android still falls short in several important areas for me. That's probably going to change, and I'm excited to try something new when it does. However, at the present I'm collaborating with a developer to create an app, and it's pretty clear in my eyes that iOS is the better platform for that.

 

[thecurryman]

I think everything is about marketing and thats the key to success year after year...samsung did not get popular because its phone is THAT much better but they got popular because samsung spent a small fortune marketing it...people buy what they see the most and thats simple economics. hell if nokia spent billions on marketing then a lot more people would be using one.
/story

 

[bmac4]

I think everything is about marketing and thats the key to success year after year...samsung did not get popular because its phone is THAT much better but they got popular because samsung spent a small fortune marketing it...people buy what they see the most and thats simple economics. hell if nokia spent billions on marketing then a lot more people would be using one.
/story

I agree, but I think what goes along side that is the features that people see in those marketing ads. People love to see what the product can do. With a great marketing campaign and great features comes a great phone. I think Apple has had this figured out long before others, but now Samsung is catching on and they keep adding some interesting features. Sure only half the people will use most of them, but guess what people like to say they can do these really cool things with there phones. Take for example the S Beam feature. It looks really cool on tv and I know people use it, but if you are like me I don't have anyone close to me that has a Samsung phone with S Beam. I have never used it, but it sure it cool to say you have. That is what appeals to people.

 

[Donvald]

There is no such thing as 'useless features' when somebody uses them and likes them. Until someone can prove that any of the Samsung 'Smart features' are not being used, then the point is moot.

Smart features are something that can be turned off if they aren't needed. To suggest Smart features are nothing more than gimmicks is an arrogant assumption to those that use them regularly.

 

[Mrg02d]

There is no such thing as 'useless features' when somebody uses them and likes them. Until someone can prove that any of the Samsung 'Smart features' are not being used, then the point is moot.

Smart features are something that can be turned off if they aren't needed. To suggest Smart features are nothing more than gimmicks is an arrogant assumption two those that use them regularly.

With that logic, there are NO gimmicks at all in this world.

 

[Donvald]

With that logic, there are NO gimmicks at all in this world.

If somebody uses a so-called 'gimmick' and does not consider it a gimmick, you telling them that it is, is arrogant. It doesn't stop your need to call things gimmicks.

 

[Mrg02d]

If somebody uses a so-called 'gimmick' and does not consider it a gimmick, you telling them that it is, is arrogant. It doesn't stop your need to call things gimmicks.

It's not arrogant, it's compassionate.

 

[Donvald]

It's not arrogant, it's compassionate.

I guess in regards to these 'gimmicks', you are over flowing with it.