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markcres

macrumors 6502
Mar 30, 2006
321
313
UK
Chip making is all about roadmaps and long term planning.

Intel/AMD/TSMC/Global Foundries have their roadmaps and will be hard to change direction over the next 2 years (a bit like the Titanic).
The Titanic actually changed direction very quickly....from horzontal, to vertical !
I suspect Intel will follow suit as it was already losing to AMD with what it has to offer.

Since I took delivery of my 'base' M1 MBA, my newish Windows HP Laptop has been untouched and lives in a drawer. It is slow, noisy and burns my lap in use - which now makes a PC look like VHS when the world has moved on to streamed video.
 

Piggie

macrumors G3
Original poster
Feb 23, 2010
9,192
4,150
Not everybody wants a PC for playing games. And at that point, we would be back to where we are now. SOC for games, SOC for general compute tasks, SOC for professional workloads, SOC for servers that need to run dozens of virtual machines (128 cores+)

Apologies as perhaps I did not explain myself fully with my original post.
What I meant was, it would be lovely to go buy a brand new Series X console, and play all the latest high end games on the console, just as now.
But when you wanted to do a bit of "Office" work, or perhaps some Skype/Facebook stuff, or a litt;e photo editing in Photoshop.
You could via a menu, kick it into Windows 10 mode and use it as a reasonable powerful ? PC, then when you have done those things, flip back into console mode and enjoy your games again.
As opposed to needing to buy a separate PC for that work.

It was just a nice thought :)
 

iPadified

macrumors 68020
Apr 25, 2017
2,014
2,257
AMD/Intel/Qualcom/NVIDIA etc will be able to respond on the GPU and CPU at some point. However, how well will they be able to produce a M1 equivalent with its neural engine and other coprocessors? It requires high level of cooperation between many companies including Microsoft which we have not seen much of. Efficacy has traditionally not been a hall mark of the PC industry.

Traditional PC/Mac people: performance per watt always wins. Look at the supercomputers, the electricity bill is always considered.

At any rate Apple sits now, in my opinion, on the throne of most interesting chips, while the rest of the PC industry follows the same paradigms founded 30-40 years ago. Remember that windows is NOT a dominating OS even in corporate world as most admin systems now need to work with mobile phones (Android/iOS) and hence via web interfaces.

Reminds me of the transition happening with the car industry going from cars using lots of petrol to far less petrol. I suspect that was one of the reasons, US car industry suffered badly? If not European and asian car industry is rapidly switch to electricity (where US now via Tesla i leader), they will suffer as well (so please hurry up!!!). Likewise, Apple has now an edge and the other chip vendors and software companies need to transition quickly or lose ground.
 
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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,142
1,899
Anchorage, AK
AMD/Intel/Qualcom/NVIDIA etc will be able to respond on the GPU and CPU at some point. However, how well will they be able to produce a M1 equivalent with its neural engine and other coprocessors? It requires high level of cooperation between many companies including Microsoft which we have not seen much of. Efficacy has traditionally not been a hall mark of the PC industry.

Traditional PC/Mac people: performance per watt always wins. Look at the supercomputers, the electricity bill is always considered.

At any rate Apple sits now, in my opinion, on the throne of most interesting chips, while the rest of the PC industry follows the same paradigms founded 30-40 years ago. Remember that windows is NOT a dominating OS even in corporate world as most admin systems now need to work with mobile phones (Android/iOS) and hence via web interfaces.

Reminds me of the transition happening with the car industry going from cars using lots of petrol to far less petrol. I suspect that was one of the reasons, US car industry suffered badly? If not European and asian car industry is rapidly switch to electricity (where US now via Tesla i leader), they will suffer as well (so please hurry up!!!). Likewise, Apple has now an edge and the other chip vendors and software companies need to transition quickly or lose ground.

If AMD and Intel do lose market share to Apple, it will be a long-term shift rather than a relatively quick shift.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68020
Apr 25, 2017
2,014
2,257
If AMD and Intel do lose market share to Apple, it will be a long-term shift rather than a relatively quick shift.
Sometimes changes are quick, but I think in the 3-5 years. Look at the iPhone for instance, that was quick. The "hurt" is not so distinct in computers as it was on the phone market so the change can be slower. Here I think the larger gain will be in battery life and that can drive transition quite quick. Corporate and large public sectors will be very slow to change.
 
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Argon_

macrumors 6502
Nov 18, 2020
425
256
Sometimes changes are quick, but I think in the 3-5 years. Look at the iPhone for instance, that was quick. The "hurt" is not so distinct in computers as it was on the phone market so the change can be slower. Here I think the larger gain will be in battery life and that can drive transition quite quick. Corporate and large public sectors will be very slow to change.
Computers of mid tier spec and up have fairly long service lives today. Many people who see it as an appliance will not upgrade until they need to. That being said, a robust battery life does improve the chance that someone might upgrade early, not for 'speed' but for a battery that lasts a whole day of work.
 

skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,252
1,405
Brazil
The Titanic actually changed direction very quickly....from horzontal, to vertical !
I suspect Intel will follow suit as it was already losing to AMD with what it has to offer.

Since I took delivery of my 'base' M1 MBA, my newish Windows HP Laptop has been untouched and lives in a drawer. It is slow, noisy and burns my lap in use - which now makes a PC look like VHS when the world has moved on to streamed video.

Apologies as perhaps I did not explain myself fully with my original post.
What I meant was, it would be lovely to go buy a brand new Series X console, and play all the latest high end games on the console, just as now.
But when you wanted to do a bit of "Office" work, or perhaps some Skype/Facebook stuff, or a litt;e photo editing in Photoshop.
You could via a menu, kick it into Windows 10 mode and use it as a reasonable powerful ? PC, then when you have done those things, flip back into console mode and enjoy your games again.
As opposed to needing to buy a separate PC for that work.

It was just a nice thought :)

AMD/Intel/Qualcom/NVIDIA etc will be able to respond on the GPU and CPU at some point. However, how well will they be able to produce a M1 equivalent with its neural engine and other coprocessors? It requires high level of cooperation between many companies including Microsoft which we have not seen much of. Efficacy has traditionally not been a hall mark of the PC industry.

Traditional PC/Mac people: performance per watt always wins. Look at the supercomputers, the electricity bill is always considered.

At any rate Apple sits now, in my opinion, on the throne of most interesting chips, while the rest of the PC industry follows the same paradigms founded 30-40 years ago. Remember that windows is NOT a dominating OS even in corporate world as most admin systems now need to work with mobile phones (Android/iOS) and hence via web interfaces.

Reminds me of the transition happening with the car industry going from cars using lots of petrol to far less petrol. I suspect that was one of the reasons, US car industry suffered badly? If not European and asian car industry is rapidly switch to electricity (where US now via Tesla i leader), they will suffer as well (so please hurry up!!!). Likewise, Apple has now an edge and the other chip vendors and software companies need to transition quickly or lose ground.

If AMD and Intel do lose market share to Apple, it will be a long-term shift rather than a relatively quick shift.

Computers of mid tier spec and up have fairly long service lives today. Many people who see it as an appliance will not upgrade until they need to. That being said, a robust battery life does improve the chance that someone might upgrade early, not for 'speed' but for a battery that lasts a whole day of work.

This is an interesting thread, and I have given this a little bit of thought lately.

When Apple released M1, I thought "wow, amazing"! And it certainly was. But then I realized how Apple's marketing is smart and runs circles around everyone else. I took two points into consideration:
  • Apple has been developing its A-series chip for some time now. it has shown significant improvements, and Apple's M1 is an evolutionary step but by no means a revolution. The single-core performance is great but should be expected following Apple's A-series improvements over the years.
  • Apple compared M1 to last year's processors. It was smart enough to launch the M1 in time to compare it with Intel's 10th gen processors, which were released one year ago. So it could claim something closer to twice the speed.
I think PC's response will come faster than ever, for the following reasons, and each company may play its part well.

First, Intel. Intel has been suffering a lot by being stuck at 10nm for the past years, and improvements have been very small compared to the past. Intel is in a bad place, but it is struggling to recover.

But Intel's 11th gen chips seem to perform significantly better than the last generation. The power-efficient quad-core Core i7-1165G7 hit some average 1450-1550 points on Geekbench 5 single-core tests (depending on the model tested), and the Core i7-1185G7 hit quite impressive 1500-1600 points.

Apple's M1 is still superior at around 1650-1750 points. But the difference between the M1 and Intel's current flagship is somewhere between 5-20%. This is still very significant but it is by no means nearly double the performance as Apple may have suggested in its presentation (when it compared M1 to Intel's 10th gen).

And Intel's 12th gen chips will make use of power-efficient cores to have better battery management. My take is that at the time Apple announces the next M-series chips, Intel will be closer to them in terms of performance and energy management. Apple may still have the edge even in the next generation, but Intel is fighting to catch up.

Second, Qualcomm. Qualcomm tried to put its chips inside a PC, and the attempt was not successful, due to the poor performance.

However, Qualcomm is improving its offerings and may soon offer something more credible, especially now that all eyes are turned to ARM following M1's release. Qualcomm is not on par with Apple in terms of mobile chips, and will hardly be able to catch up with it on PCs as well, but it is another worthy contender.

Third, there is AMD. AMD has shown significant improvements in its x86 line-up, and will now invest in ARM chips as well. It still has some catch-up to do, though.

And then there is Nvidia. Nvidia does not make CPUs, but it is the king of GPUs. And it paid some $40 billion for ARM itself. So it may have everything it needs now to create a killer chip to put everyone else to shame.

While I think none of these contenders will take Apple down in the short run, they will respond very quickly to the arrival of the M1. In 2021, x86 chips will become more competitive, and ARM alternatives for PC will flourish. Apple's M1 may be the best one for now and for some time in the future, but competition will be fierce.
 

vladi

macrumors 65816
Jan 30, 2010
1,008
617
Here is the real showdown I did a week ago. My new M1 mini is only 50% faster than 2016 all tricked out MBP15 in the DAW workflow I use.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,182
1,544
Denmark
  • Apple compared M1 to last year's processors. It was smart enough to launch the M1 in time to compare it with Intel's 10th gen processors, which were released one year ago. So it could claim something closer to twice the speed.
I think PC's response will come faster than ever, for the following reasons, and each company may play its part well.

First, Intel. Intel has been suffering a lot by being stuck at 10nm for the past years, and improvements have been very small compared to the past. Intel is in a bad place, but it is struggling to recover.

But Intel's 11th gen chips seem to perform significantly better than the last generation. The power-efficient quad-core Core i7-1165G7 hit some average 1450-1550 points on Geekbench 5 single-core tests (depending on the model tested), and the Core i7-1185G7 hit quite impressive 1500-1600 points.

Apple's M1 is still superior at around 1650-1750 points. But the difference between the M1 and Intel's current flagship is somewhere between 5-20%. This is still very significant but it is by no means nearly double the performance as Apple may have suggested in its presentation (when it compared M1 to Intel's 10th gen).

...

And then there is Nvidia. Nvidia does not make CPUs, but it is the king of GPUs. And it paid some $40 billion for ARM itself. So it may have everything it needs now to create a killer chip to put everyone else to shame.
Apple compared the performance with the models it replaced. I see nothing wrong with that and comparing it against the newest Intel generation doesn’t change the outlook. You won’t be able to get a Mac with them anyway.

NVIDIA already has an Arm license and have been making Tegra chips for a long time. It’s what powers Nintendo Switch for example.
 
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Krevnik

macrumors 601
Sep 8, 2003
4,101
1,312
First, Intel. Intel has been suffering a lot by being stuck at 10nm for the past years, and improvements have been very small compared to the past. Intel is in a bad place, but it is struggling to recover.

But Intel's 11th gen chips seem to perform significantly better than the last generation. The power-efficient quad-core Core i7-1165G7 hit some average 1450-1550 points on Geekbench 5 single-core tests (depending on the model tested), and the Core i7-1185G7 hit quite impressive 1500-1600 points.

Only one minor nitpick from me on this: Intel has been stuck on 14nm. 10nm is the node they are struggling to get to.

10nm started appearing on some 10th gen laptop CPUs, but so far only laptop chips have gone 10nm. So sadly their higher end chips still aren’t seeing the benefits yet. But yes, I’d hope their 11th gen 10nm chips would show off what can be done on the new process node.

Intel claims they’re looking to deliver 10nm desktop chips by end of 2021. We will see if they can deliver.

But I also wonder if Intel is still having their processors running scorching hot to reach these benchmarks or not? I haven’t been paying that close attention to the 11th gen stuff.
 

haralds

macrumors 68030
Jan 3, 2014
2,990
1,252
Silicon Valley, CA
Intel and AMD will attempt to come out with full oC versions of they architecture. Shoe horning that into the current eco system will be very difficult. The CISC basis does not help.
Results will be underwhelming and not serve their OEM partners, who like to create lots of SKUs with minor differences to manage channels and pricing.
 
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jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
11,387
30,043
SoCal
both AMD and Intel are moving to the chipset approach, Intel calls it Foveros ... chip size, a single chip that has everything on it, is reaching its limits from a manufacturing and yield perspective ...
 
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skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,252
1,405
Brazil
Apple compared the performance with the models it replaced. I see nothing wrong with that and comparing it against the newest Intel generation doesn’t change the outlook. You won’t be able to get a Mac with them anyway.

NVIDIA already has an Arm license and have been making Tegra chips for a long time. It’s what powers Nintendo Switch for example.
You are right. There is nothing wrong with comparing the M1 chip with the ones it replaced (after all, this is what makes sense for Mac users). But the M1 real competitor is Intel's 11th gen and not 10th gen. You cannot get an 11th gen Intel chip in a Mac, but that is the one that is going to power the next PCs (which is what this thread is about).

About Nvidia, you are right again. But I suspect that this may not be the reason why it spent $40 billion to buy ARM.
 
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skaertus

macrumors 601
Feb 23, 2009
4,252
1,405
Brazil
Only one minor nitpick from me on this: Intel has been stuck on 14nm. 10nm is the node they are struggling to get to.

10nm started appearing on some 10th gen laptop CPUs, but so far only laptop chips have gone 10nm. So sadly their higher end chips still aren’t seeing the benefits yet. But yes, I’d hope their 11th gen 10nm chips would show off what can be done on the new process node.

Intel claims they’re looking to deliver 10nm desktop chips by end of 2021. We will see if they can deliver.

But I also wonder if Intel is still having their processors running scorching hot to reach these benchmarks or not? I haven’t been paying that close attention to the 11th gen stuff.
Intel has finally gone to 10nm, at least in laptops, after being stuck in 14nm for years. But Intel's 10nm process is said to be equivalent to TSMC's 7nm (having about the same density). It seems to me that terms such as 7nm or 10nm may not be exact and may carry their own marketing gimmicks.
 

Argon_

macrumors 6502
Nov 18, 2020
425
256
But I also wonder if Intel is still having their processors running scorching hot to reach these benchmarks or not? I haven’t been paying that close attention to the 11th gen stuff.

An important consideration. the same benchmark score is much more impressive in a passively cooled laptop, rather than a desktop with a tower cooler.
 

dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,142
1,899
Anchorage, AK
First, Intel. Intel has been suffering a lot by being stuck at 10nm for the past years, and improvements have been very small compared to the past. Intel is in a bad place, but it is struggling to recover.

But Intel's 11th gen chips seem to perform significantly better than the last generation. The power-efficient quad-core Core i7-1165G7 hit some average 1450-1550 points on Geekbench 5 single-core tests (depending on the model tested), and the Core i7-1185G7 hit quite impressive 1500-1600 points.

Here's the thing about Intel and their 10nm process. Right now, the only processors using 10nm are the low end chips that replaced the U and Y series in the 10th gen and earlier CPUs. Desktop parts are still stuck on 14nm, and Intel is having almost as many issues moving the desktop parts to 10nm as they are moving notebook SKUs to 7nm. Intel is also still reliant on manipulating base speeds and core counts to improve performance at the same time their new "EVO" branding has implemented higher standards for PC manufacturers to get that branding. Intel needs to figure out their 7nm process if they truly want to regain their lead.

Intel has finally gone to 10nm, at least in laptops, after being stuck in 14nm for years. But Intel's 10nm process is said to be equivalent to TSMC's 7nm (having about the same density). It seems to me that terms such as 7nm or 10nm may not be exact and may carry their own marketing gimmicks.

Intel has taken to calling their 10nm process "10nm+", but there is no actual difference in terms of the size of the traces themselves. Since the term "process" refers to the width of the contact traces and components on the processor itself, there is no physical way to cram the same number of 10nm traces/components into a square centimeter as 7nm. Consequently, the density will always increase as the process shrinks, bringing with it the ability to squeeze improved performance with lower power consumption. This brings up the massive elephant in the room for Intel: the M-series SoCs that will go into the higher-end Macs will be built on the same 5nm process as the existing M1, so they will be competing against 10nm CPUs on the portable side and 14nm CPUs on the desktop side. We have already seen just how well these first-generation entry level SoCs compare to both 10th and 11th generation Intel CPUs for notebooks. While the scores for the 11th gen mobile CPUs has closed the gap with the M1, it does so at the expense of battery life due to how much power is needed to run those processors at their rated speeds.

Until Intel can get down to a 7nm process, I don't see any way for them to match Apple in the performance per watt metric that is becoming more relevant across the industry. Given that Intel already pushed 7nm back to 2022, Apple may have moved to TSMCs 3nm (or even 2nm) process before Intel has 7nm across its entire product line. That would have the effect of placing Intel even further behind the curve, and could give AMD the opening they need to focus on the mobile market and make inroads there.
 

robco74

macrumors 6502a
Nov 22, 2020
509
944
There have already been comparisons with M1 and the latest 11th gen Intel chips. The M1 laptops are cooler and quieter than something like an XPS 13. In addition, battery life is considerably better. It isn't raw performance that makes the M1 unique, it's that it performs well and manages to stay cool while doing so. In terms of raw power, my MBP with i9 and dedicated GPU will perform better, albeit with fans roaring, shorter battery life, and becoming rather warm.

Intel may be able to match some of the gains in silicon, but they can't manage the software that runs on it. Macs have generally done well with battery life because Apple has taken great pains over the years to optimize the OS for efficiency. It's also a reason why iOS devices can manage with smaller batteries and less RAM than most Android phones.

Nvidia might be able to help if they can move beyond pushing their own proprietary solutions. But they would need to work more closely with Microsoft (and Red Hat, Canonical, Oracle, etc.) than ever before. They need to be willing to offer more purpose built SKUs. Remember, Apple has silicon powering everything from the Watch to iPhone and iPad, and now the Mac. Not to mention being willing to create custom chips like the TCON in the 5K iMac.

So far, there seems to be little incentive for any of the hardware and software companies to work together to the degree required to match Apple.
 

JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
So far, there seems to be little incentive for any of the hardware and software companies to work together to the degree required to match Apple.
Having Apple come in and eat their lunch would be some incentive I think. There's been plenty of times different companies have come to work together to standardize things, USB, Displayport, codecs, etc. If a common architecture is agreed upon, the common software could be built for it.
 
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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,142
1,899
Anchorage, AK
Having Apple come in and eat their lunch would be some incentive I think. There's been plenty of times different companies have come to work together to standardize things, USB, Displayport, codecs, etc. If a common architecture is agreed upon, the common software could be built for it.

Every subsystem is already standardized though. x86 is the CPU architecture, and USB, Thunderbolt, DDR4, SATA, M.2/NVMe, HDMI/DisplayPort/DVI/VGA are also standardized, as is PCIe. The innovation has to come from Intel and (to a lesser extend) AMD. The latter already is using 7nm and is working on 5nm designs for their CPUs, and Infinity Fabric is their answer to the UMA approach used in the M1. On the other hand, Intel's yields for 10nm parts are poor, which is why desktop parts are still stuck on 14nm. Intel is already looking to outsource production, and are apparently deciding between TSMC and Samsung.
 
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TrueBlou

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2014
4,531
3,619
Scotland
You know what I'd love to see, simply out of curiosity.
Windows 10 on The brand new Xbox series X console, which is basically a VERY graphically powerful PC with a SOC made by AMD powering it.
100% sure it could be done if Msoft wanted to, but I'm, sure they don't simply because Msoft don't want to make other PC builders angry.

It would be pretty cool if you could do this, even back onto the Xbox One X. Kind of like Sony’s half hearted Linux effort with the PS3.

I don’t know that I’d use it much personally, beyond my typical tinkering curiosity. But I’m sure it would be a handy basic, relatively inexpensive, PC for a lot of people.
 
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playtech1

macrumors 6502a
Oct 10, 2014
695
889
I think one path that will be followed is including dedicated processing units for common tasks rather than relying as much on the 'general purpose' CPU. Apple showed with the T2 chip that you can mix ARM and Intel quite well, so perhaps a secondary 'accelerator' chip to deal with some of those things like AI, encryption and image processing might happen.

I can see a barrier to this is that Intel and AMD make the motherboards and want to sell their own CPUs, so the chances of an ARM chip appearing there seem slim. But Intel and AMD could roll their own if minded to (AMD could stick it in a separate chiplet even).

Nvidia might do this - perhaps by integrating something onto its GPUs now it owns ARM. Microsoft would be on board I would have thought.

I could also see a push from MS or (more likely) Google to integrate mobile android apps into Windows to match Big Sur.

Matching Apple Silicon performance itself seems like it will be challenging for Intel, but AMD at process node parity with Apple seems likely to be competitive.
 
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thunng8

macrumors 65816
Feb 8, 2006
1,032
417
This is an interesting thread, and I have given this a little bit of thought lately.

When Apple released M1, I thought "wow, amazing"! And it certainly was. But then I realized how Apple's marketing is smart and runs circles around everyone else. I took two points into consideration:
  • Apple has been developing its A-series chip for some time now. it has shown significant improvements, and Apple's M1 is an evolutionary step but by no means a revolution. The single-core performance is great but should be expected following Apple's A-series improvements over the years.
  • Apple compared M1 to last year's processors. It was smart enough to launch the M1 in time to compare it with Intel's 10th gen processors, which were released one year ago. So it could claim something closer to twice the speed.
I think PC's response will come faster than ever, for the following reasons, and each company may play its part well.

First, Intel. Intel has been suffering a lot by being stuck at 10nm for the past years, and improvements have been very small compared to the past. Intel is in a bad place, but it is struggling to recover.

But Intel's 11th gen chips seem to perform significantly better than the last generation. The power-efficient quad-core Core i7-1165G7 hit some average 1450-1550 points on Geekbench 5 single-core tests (depending on the model tested), and the Core i7-1185G7 hit quite impressive 1500-1600 points.

Apple's M1 is still superior at around 1650-1750 points. But the difference between the M1 and Intel's current flagship is somewhere between 5-20%. This is still very significant but it is by no means nearly double the performance as Apple may have suggested in its presentation (when it compared M1 to Intel's 10th gen).
This is an interesting thread, and I have given this a little bit of thought lately.

When Apple released M1, I thought "wow, amazing"! And it certainly was. But then I realized how Apple's marketing is smart and runs circles around everyone else. I took two points into consideration:
  • Apple has been developing its A-series chip for some time now. it has shown significant improvements, and Apple's M1 is an evolutionary step but by no means a revolution. The single-core performance is great but should be expected following Apple's A-series improvements over the years.
  • Apple compared M1 to last year's processors. It was smart enough to launch the M1 in time to compare it with Intel's 10th gen processors, which were released one year ago. So it could claim something closer to twice the speed.
I think PC's response will come faster than ever, for the following reasons, and each company may play its part well.

First, Intel. Intel has been suffering a lot by being stuck at 10nm for the past years, and improvements have been very small compared to the past. Intel is in a bad place, but it is struggling to recover.

But Intel's 11th gen chips seem to perform significantly better than the last generation. The power-efficient quad-core Core i7-1165G7 hit some average 1450-1550 points on Geekbench 5 single-core tests (depending on the model tested), and the Core i7-1185G7 hit quite impressive 1500-1600 points.

Apple's M1 is still superior at around 1650-1750 points. But the difference between the M1 and Intel's current flagship is somewhere between 5-20%. This is still very significant but it is by no means nearly double the performance as Apple may have suggested in its presentation (when it compared M1 to Intel's 10th gen).
A quick note about Intel’s 11 gen chips - they are power hungry and the only reason they get high scores in single core is the aggressive turbo boost they employ. Anandtech test a fully loaded single core can draw over 20w when turbo boosted to 4.8ghz compared to m1 at 7w when run at 3.2ghz. That is 3x more power for less performance.

Have a look at this video - because of the high power draw, the performance of these laptops drops dramatically if you on battery power while Apple m1 maintains exactly the same performance on battery compared to plugged in.

 

MysticCow

macrumors 68000
May 27, 2013
1,564
1,760
ASMacs have changed the game for higher-end users.

Lower end users can still get major benefits from their old Mactels or Wintel machines. I mean, I can play WoW Classic on a 2009 MacBook in Windows. To a very casual user, spending $100 to get to this endpoint just plain wins. It's not only performance per watt, but rather "What is needed to get the job done."

We've hit that brick wall and hard. People are actually beginning (very early here, so it isn't 100% ingrained) to realize that maybe X isn't needed if a much cheaper used/refurbished Y can do the same thing.

That being said, I would LOVE LOVE LOVE the higher end Air. It fits all of my needs, but the price needs to drop. Until then, the used/refurb market is still my best friend.
 

thenewperson

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
992
912
Have a look at this video - because of the high power draw, the performance of these laptops drops dramatically if you on battery power while Apple m1 maintains exactly the same performance on battery compared to plugged in.
The fact that Macs somehow became the poster children for throttling while Windows laptops just do this is hilarious.
 
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