What would make you leave Apple?

[eyoungren]

My current primary Mac is a 2009 Mac Pro running Sonoma (via OCLP). I've been fully Intel since May 2020, so a little over six years. I was PowerPC from 2001 to 2020.

So, if Apple does cause a reconsideration at some point, I still have some time. Once the M-series Macs start to drop into my price range (around $250), I may consider upgrading.

My primary iPhone is my 11 Pro Max. No 5G. But it runs iOS 27.

Both my Mac and my iPhone (and my iPads for that matter) do everything I need/want them to do. With my stuff, AI is largely a non-issue.

When you run 5 to 17 years behind, most of the Apple products that are going to die have already died, leaving most of the good ones (and parts) available.

 

[crococarbs]

Triggered by ads? That’s a bit dramatic. They are ads, not a trauma that you suffered in the past, and certain things trigger the memories of the trauma. Actual trauma and triggers are nothing to joke about.

They are annoying at most. I don’t like them, but what else is out there, Google?
I have a Pixel 9 (running GrapheneOS) and an iPhone 17; both have their pros and cons.

For me to leave Apple 100%? It would take a lot, seeing as I do not like Windows and I am not teaching my wife to learn Linux. I’ll play with other operating systems; it’s fun for me. Overall, Apple fits my needs and is easy to use for non-techie people in the family. The ads are just annoying, nothing major at all.

I really don’t use Apple services also (I like to use cross-platform stuff because I have a few different operating systems); this way, we can leave Apple pretty easily if needed. My wife doesn’t mind my Pixel 9; she plays around with it at times. All of my kids are moved out, and they are tech nerds and play around with other operating systems like I do.

Maybe "triggered" was not the most accurate word, if it has that trauma connotation, I meant it was the "motivating factor for me to take action".

About "ads are just ads", I pay extra $ for Apple products and services knowing that their business model is to focus on making good products, not from selling me ads!!

Plus, once the business model starts to shift to selling ads, the business model is encouraged to "personalise" a.k.a. target those ads based on personal info they gather from you, Google being the prime example. Apple is far from that yet, that's why I still use them.

And yeah def not moving to Windows or Google, just experimenting with Linux and GrapheneOS, and currently I have some self-hosted services and Proton subscription, still on Apple hardware. This experiment of mine might fail as well and I might end up back in iCloud etc, we'll see.

 

[inventor7777]

I have enough network infrastructure at home to host a lot of my own services - notes, calendar, contacts, storage, photos, RSS, music, movies, journal, etc. So I could move at any time without major inconveniences.

At the moment, I prefer Apple because the experience is more unified for basic actions (for example, the Share sheet, and the Import picker), I prefer the general UI of iOS, and the device hardware is so incredibly well made, fast, and efficient that I don't see benefits of moving.

I like Linux, but as a desktop it simply cannot run all the apps I use. However, I have the best of both worlds with my Linux servers allowing me to run additional programs and commands that Macs are more restrictive about. I think due to that, I just don't hit the same restrictions on iOS that people complain about.

 

[crococarbs]

Like @GregoryPeckEPA says above, the intrusion of "AI" bloat, with no way of meaningfully turning those "features" off, would be a big signal, to me, to start reconsidering. Similarly, further slips on the privacy front would suggest the need to move on.

But move on in what way? I'm not entirely sure. Certainly not to Google. Maybe even only partially moving on by running Asahi Linux on Apple silicon. The Asahi project is great, but sadly it only supports a limited range of hardware currently, and I imagine anyone intending on making a permanent switch to running Asahi on Mac may encounter unforeseen quirks, despite the developers' best efforts to foresee and forestall them. That situation may change, and things will probably get better as time goes on, but for a lot of people that sort of "moving on" probably isn't viable right now.

Move on to Linux on an x86 system? One appeal of Apple's current hardware is the combination of performance and efficiency. My Mac mini runs quiet, fairly cool, and sips on power. I hadn't realised how much I valued that, but I do. And replicating exactly that in other hardware is a bit of a challenge.

In short, I don't know. But there are definitely signals prompting to consider other options, even though none are currently ideal for me. And I suspect things will worsen on multiple fronts (more "AI" bloat, subtle-but-escalating degradation in privacy, broader policy regressions to comply with increasingly authoritarian government, etc) before they get better, if they ever do.

Yup agreeing with a lot here. The Asahi wizards are making progress on newer apple silicon, but it is slower than I would like, for me luckily I only have M2 and M1 macs atm, but only running Asahi on the M1 macbook air to try it out, already some teething issues there e.g. standby battery drain but the Asahi team are onto it, can't say enough good things about them!

 

[eyoungren]

About "ads are just ads", I pay extra $ for Apple products and services knowing that their business model is to focus on making good products, not from selling me ads!!

The Apple tax? Apple would argue that you are not paying 'extra'. You are paying for their product. You only see it as extra because similar products that are not Apple cost less.

In short, I don't believe Apple believes you are paying 'extra'.

 

[crococarbs]

The Apple tax? Apple would argue that you are not paying 'extra'. You are paying for their product. You only see it as extra because similar products that are not Apple cost less.

In short, I don't believe Apple believes you are paying 'extra'.

Yeah, so my point is that I have been happy to pay for their products especially because they are free from ads and bloat, unlike Windows for example. So if they are going to start packing stuff and showing ads, my motivation to stick with Apple diminishes, that's all.

 

[eyoungren]

Yeah, so my point is that I have been happy to pay for their products especially because they are free from ads and bloat, unlike Windows for example. So if they are going to start packing stuff and showing ads, my motivation to stick with Apple diminishes, that's all.

Yeah, I hear you. And I agree. I'm hoping it's a one-off and it either stays there or goes away. Fortunately, I don't use Apple Maps anyway, so I can avoid that.

But if Apple becomes the new Amazon in that regard I'm certainly with you.

 

[triumvirate]

I’ve been in the “Apple garden” since ~ 2007, for context.

The price hiking and dwindling privacy Apple now offers, along with Apple moving into being a subscription company instead of a software/hardware company, and injecting ads into more of its native apps, have truly caused me to pause in considering them for my future device upgrades.

On a bigger scale, it’s caused me to pause and reflect on what devices I even actually want or need in my life. Very few of them actually bring me joy, and if Apple continues the devolution into idiocracy-level ad-based subscription AI smut like everyone else, there is no longer a reason to pay the “Apple premium” tax in my mind. Apple did a good job making me think that I cared about more things than I do when it comes to technology.

I may not “leave” Apple 100%, but I’ll probably buy less of their product classes and those that I do buy will likely be used or refurbished going forward. Or, who knows, maybe I will leave altogether. I truly no longer care whose product I buy brand-wise, and I think that’s the opposite of what these megacorps want from customers.

 

[Timpetus]

Apple would have to completely change their stance on privacy and go full Google/MS before I'd ever think of leaving. I'd be moving to a GrapheneOS/Linux/Proton/whatever else combination because if I'm making any changes, it'll always be in the direction of taking privacy more seriously, not less. No panopticon for me, thanks.

 

[DankeBrutus]

I've been thinking about what my own line would be for a couple years now. There are things I am currently annoyed with that Apple has done. I don't like the pushing of Apple Intelligence into the iWork apps. I still find no real use for Apple Intelligence. It's turned off entirely on my Macs. It was turned off on iOS 26 but with the iOS 27 Public Beta I took the time to block things like writing assistance, image creation, and I switched back to Siri Classic. I shouldn't have had to do that though regardless of how little effort it was. It's being woven into so many parts of the system and the settings for Apple Intelligence are, with iOS 27, so spread out that I can see a future update coming where Apple says "you can't disable Siri AI anymore." If anything they will just make the off switch turning Siri off entirely, which would be annoying seeing as I do still use Siri sometimes for setting timers and things like that. I also don't like the current trend of Apple putting ads in their services. I remember when paying more for an Apple product also meant you didn't have to deal with that BS in first-party apps and services.

I think two things that would immediately start my switching to a Linux laptop on the Mac side, or full Asahi Linux if that is viable for me, is if Apple locked down macOS to just notarized apps and/or apps from the Mac App Store. The other would be Apple requiring an Apple ID to set up and use a Mac. Currently they require an Apple ID if you're going to use the Mac App Store, just like on iOS, but on macOS I can go download and install apps from anywhere. I'm pretty sure you don't need an Apple ID to install Homebrew or Macports either because you don't need an Apple ID to install the required bits of Xcode. I have an Apple ID, I have it logged into my Macs, the problem I'd have with them requiring it is that it is the same behaviour coming from Microsoft. Apple needs to not make all the same mistakes as Microsoft.

The one thing I can think of that would make me stop using any Apple product would be if they went back on their privacy claims and started harvesting and selling user data like Google.

 

[MBAir2010]

Loved  1998-2017
high Sierra made me buy a Dell XPS
Mojave brought me back
catalina was ehhhhhh, but I kept using the Dell
2022 the dell tanked, as Monterey on the M1 is great!
sonoma-tahoe'd really irked me.
this year an da bit of last,
I tied leave  and even MacRumors this year.
the software development is not up to par while their sales/tech are worse!

then
I somehow had sleep problems....which lead to my heart experiencing Tachycardia and Atrial fibrillation.
after spending six days in ICU, away from my cat of 9 years the bozos released me
along with a chest-shoulder harness called a with a life vest which was gawky to wear and use.
my neighbor gave me a gen10 watch that sat in a box unopened for a year.
well that watch, iPhone and some other  products let me lose that vest, measure my heart rate
in rainy weather today as I pedaled 29.34miles on a Mt Bike as my speed is slow, 11.4MPH
but they the bozos claimed I can ride after 3 months back in late July, 26th.

what I now like about  is I can measure my heart rate, stop when 175BPM,
wait 20 seconds when in at 70BPM them pedal another 10-15 miles.

they,  won't fix music you own, give a honest repair situation and solve minor HOME problemss
but just the fact I can ride a bike, use spreadsheets, surf that internets, use my MBA2010-MPB2012 for real work,
I stopped looking at  through negative eyes and welcome golden bill gate as well as liquor glass on my iPad, ge 10.

yesterday I broke a long stretch of boycotting  (2023-2026) as I purchased a track pad for the Mac mini.
im gettin that tomorrow, now TODAY!

this  company won't change of improve any more, but we individually can.

 

[Mr_Ed]

After 30+ years buying Apple products, I’m not looking at it as “what’s my red line” (though that whole CSAM bs felt like a red line when they announced it) but rather I’m basically already gone unless they show me they are once again prioritizing the user day-to-day experience over gimmicks and “services”.

From having lots of Apple products at home (Macs, iMacs, Mac Minis, Mac Pros, Powerbooks, Macbook Pros, Airport Extremes, iPods, iPhones, iPads), we are down to only iPhones and iPads, and there isn’t a single Apple product on the horizon that looks compelling enough for me to want. But the bigger issue for me has been the realization that my overall user experience with Apple has been in decline for years. All the nags I’ve encountered on a regular basis have been like death by a thousand cuts because I saw them as the clearest indication that Apple’s priorities were changing. The things we interact with most frequently should be the least troublesome but they are clearly not.

Even as I’m typing this on an iPad, which is primarily used via touch, I have already had to tap the same place multiple times to place the cursor anywhere near the place where I need it for a correction. If I turn on more of the typing correction settings, I actually spend more time fighting the “corrections” than doing whatever it is I am trying to do. The Files app continues to be an unreliable joke when I connect to systems at home. Sometimes it is fine, another time connected to the very same server it just sits there and spins. CarPlay is so bad at playing my own music physically loaded on the phone that I have given up and gone back to putting my music on a thumb drive. So far I have 100% success rate asking my car to play anything on that drive but apparently that was too difficult for the iPhone. My current iPad (about a year old?) is fine in this regard but my previous one would randomly decide to drop the wifi connection until I turned off “Private WiFi Address”. New one is on the same WiFi without issue but I had to deal with the issue for years.

There have been many other recurring issues over the last few years but the point is, damage is done. The investment in the ecosystem (purchased media, purchased apps) which I would lose if I switch phones outside of Apple was one thing still keeping me here but that is becoming less of a factor since realistically, we might still use iPads even if the phones are not Apple. Then again, if the iPad can’t play nice with the rest of my non-Apple devices, it will eventually get the boot as well.

Do I think the competition offers significantly better devices or user experience? Not necessarily. But right now Apple’s offerings are not looking better than the rest either. Years ago I happily paid more for Apple products because the consistency and reliability of my user experience, which allowed me to focus on the task at hand rather than the tech, was worth it to me. I just don’t think my current user experience is worth it anymore.

 

[MBAir2010]

It’s been fun, and I dread the alternatives but with the climate tipping point now irreversible, I think Mother Nature’s wrath will eclipse tech’s downward spiral. There was hail so violent yesterday, it put bullet holes in cars. The rain, floods, forest fires and endless smoke are just the beginning. Data centres be damned.

in 1988 they let elite cyclist ride in. hail storm in Italy,
in 2026 they stopped the race stage due to hail.

im upset, bewildered that we can't purchase any ssd drives anymore.
thet is a scary way that tech is trying to dictate our computer lives now.

your other points were sharp as an arrow!

 

[Apple_Robert]

If Siri were to ever cheat on me with another MR member, I would leave.

 

[VaZ]

If Apple's Ecosystem collapses then i collapse with it. No other company can match it by a long shot.

 

[klowy79]

I am so sick of Apple's greed. Ad the bugs in all of their OS's is absurd. If there was a way to keep my music & Apple TV, I'd switch for sure.

 

[MBAir2010]

My current primary Mac is a 2009 Mac Pro running Sonoma (via OCLP). I've been fully Intel since May 2020, so a little over six years. I was PowerPC from 2001 to 2020.

So, if Apple does cause a reconsideration at some point, I still have some time. Once the M-series Macs start to drop into my price range (around $250), I may consider upgrading.

My primary iPhone is my 11 Pro Max. No 5G. But it runs iOS 27.

Both my Mac and my iPhone (and my iPads for that matter) do everything I need/want them to do. With my stuff, AI is largely a non-issue.

When you run 5 to 17 years behind, most of the Apple products that are going to die have already died, leaving most of the good ones (and parts) available.

and
you crate incredible graphics on these early Intel Macs, and have not skipped a beat computer-wise since 2009!
 should herald your set up but they will condone you for non-M series Macs.

 

[wonderings]

The Apple tax? Apple would argue that you are not paying 'extra'. You are paying for their product. You only see it as extra because similar products that are not Apple cost less.

In short, I don't believe Apple believes you are paying 'extra'.

I would say there is a little bit of an Apple tax. Look at their micro fibre cleaning cloth. What are you really paying for other than the logo on the product? Premium products all have something like this. I ride a BMW motorcycle and it does feel like there is a BMW tax on things with their branding on it. Some I j justify like their motorcycle jackets as I do believe they are a premium jacket and worth the price, other stuff is laughable and gets that BMW tax. I drive a Tesla Y, I can buy roof racks of equal quality for half the price of the Tesla branded ones. Apple sells a premium product for people who can afford it. As much as they pat themselves on the back for helping change the world, they are only changing it for those who can afford it. Nothing wrong with that, it is the reality of it.

As for switching I would happily switch to something else if it worked as well. As of right now for how I work the Apple ecosystem is just too good and lets me ignore a lot of what irritates me about Apple both software and hardware wise. I am more stuck with the hardware and OS though, I have Apple Music and Fitness + but that is it for services. I am not using any cloud services for files or photos. Mail I am using outlook for work and I just use gmail in a browser for my email. I don't do a lot of personal email so that works fine for me. The hardware is tuff to beat. I have a 12.9 iPad Pro that I use as a wireless external display at work when I have people in my office and want to show them something, I flip the iPad over, extend my screen to the iPad and instantly we can go over whatever it is I need to. Copying and pasting across devices, iMessage, it all just works really well. I use Windows for my gaming computer and have tried using it professionally but I really hate how Windows forces you to work their way only, especially for file management and navigating folders. Linux, well that is just a whole other pile of something that I look at ever other year or so and quickly realize why I don't even bother keeping it as a virtual OS to play with.

 

[MBAir2010]

If Siri were to ever cheat on me with another MR member, I would leave.

I turned that off years ago, but can't speak for the rest of us tho-

 

[Dirk Pieters]

So where do you draw the line? What would make you switch?

Honestly? Very little.

Computer wise: my daughter has to use Windows in school. Windows is a mess. It was becoming a mess when I walked away from it in 2008 and it's an even bigger mess now.

My wife hates computers and I something think computers hate her back. Say what you want of macOS but it brings her a simplicity that she would never have on Windows.

It would have to be a better operating system than macOS able to run the programs I need for work. I could find my way around Linux. I'm sure there is a distro out there that requires an absolute minimum of invested time once setup correctly.

Phone wise: we'll never use Android because of what it is ... a trojan horse in your pocket to feed an ad company. Who would use that?

 

[BSDnostalgia]

TL;DR: Apple Maps ads triggered me, a step away from what I liked most about them, no ads and privacy, so time to explore alternatives.

Triggered is not too strong a word. We all feel like the frogs in the pan of heating up water, and, ads in Apple Maps caused us all to notice that, and, for some of us, to take action that costs hundreds or a few thousands of dollars. Sure, I don't know anyone who is lying in their bed and crying about this, but, it is significant.

I have been happily living in the "walled garden" for many years, deeply invested in the ecosystem with icloud photos, files and backups, etc. I have been happy to pay extra for Apple devices just because things work so well.

Precisely. A useful level of privacy, photo and file sharing, backups. I have been willing to pay "extra" (many of us refer to that as the "Apple Tax") precisely because of the "extra" privacy combined with iCloud convenience.

So where do you draw the line? What would make you switch?

I mean, Apple products are still some of the most secure and private devices you can by on the consumer market. Ads are ugly but they are not targeted using your personal info (like the way Google etc. does).

The ads are more significant than you acknowledge. The world is flooded with ads that we all train ourselves to ignore. The digital world is so easy to flood with ads, because they are so cheap to implement. Apple has generally allowed us to shield ourselves from this constant barrage of ads. With ads in maps, Apple is breaking down that shield.

For the security part (the part I personally care most about, by the way), just have a read of their Platform Security Guide and try to think of another consumer electronics company that cares this much about security. The answer is there isn’t another one.

Agree with this. Apple spent a lot of effort and real money on MIE. I haven't seen anything at that level since the 80's. MIE won't be the end of it.

Triggered by ads? That’s a bit dramatic. They are ads, not a trauma that you suffered in the past, and certain things trigger the memories of the trauma. Actual trauma and triggers are nothing to joke about. [] They are annoying at most.

It is more significant than you think. Apple crossed a line that people thought they wouldn't.

[...] what else is out there, Google?
I have a Pixel 9 (running GrapheneOS) and an iPhone 17; both have their pros and cons.

Of course not Google. For a long time, Apple has been selling privacy, even in TV ads, that contrast Apple with most of the industry, particularly Google. You are running GrapheneOS, so, you recognize the problem.

About "ads are just ads", I pay extra $ for Apple products and services knowing that their business model is to focus on making good products, not from selling me ads!!

Yeah, so my point is that I have been happy to pay for their products especially because they are free from ads and bloat,

+1

Apple would have to completely change their stance on privacy and go full Google/MS before I'd ever think of leaving.

It is a slippery slope as the cliche' says. Apple is looking a little pregnant.

The one thing I can think of that would make me stop using any Apple product would be if they went back on their privacy claims and started harvesting and selling user data like Google.

100%.

Apple has done tremendous work with its version of ARM. AS systems are, AFAIK, the best in the business wrt performance/(power-and-heat), as long as we aren't talking about FP64. Fast, cool, and quiet. And, taking significant steps towards the improved security that I care about.

Privacy has been a major differentiator for Apple for a long time. If that distinction evaporates, then I'll find other approaches, and Apple will be just another company.

 

[Dirk Pieters]

The one thing I can think of that would make me stop using any Apple product would be if they went back on their privacy claims and started harvesting and selling user data like Google.

Even if Apple became as horrible towards privacy and harvesting as Google and Microsoft, I'd still use Apple because it's what works best for me.

Nothing really changes in that regard: if all major OS builders give up on privacy I'd still pick the OS that is easiest to use and requires the least amount of attention. That's still macOS for me.

 

[uacd]

Instead of using all those privacy-oriented services I just... fake my digital life. Fake Google account, zero info on Apple account, not even a Face ID on my phone (but for other reasons, ik it is private), zero identifying information, no Facebook, Instagram or TikTok. Why find alternatives if you can live as a ghost? Much easier to dissolve in the crowd than try to escape into the deep forest.

What will make me stop using Apple? Probably nothing. Even if I sell my current iPhone I will still be surrounded with old Apple devices. Using what you have is always cheaper than buying alternative, and with the current pricing I think it is the BEST option.

Even if Apple will somehow manage to repeat the fate of Nokia I will still be using Apple devices, same as there are people still using old Nokia phones - just for the sake of nostalgia and because it just works, maybe something is obsolete but if it still functions why not keep it?

There are decent Pixel devices, good Samsung phones but I don't think they have something that screams to me like "I AM BETTER THAN WHAT YOU HAVE! BUY ME!!!"

 

[maflynn]

The Apple tax? Apple would argue that you are not paying 'extra'. You are paying for their product. You only see it as extra because similar products that are not Apple cost less.

With apple pushing at least 30% profit margins - the apple tax is a real thing.

Prior to rampocolypse, the cost of ram/ssd increases was absurd.

 

[uacd]

Why is my battery at 94% health on a 6 month old iPad with 200 cycles on it

There is something Apple doesn't tell because they enjoy replacing batteries for money - you gotta charge new devices with old 5W, 10W or 12W original Apple chargers (or similar). If you use any new fast chargers like this 20W or 40/60W bricks from your MacBook, they heat battery a lot and decrease its lifespan. Btw automakers know that too, and no amount of coolers and radiators will save the battery cells - they just degrade faster