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What would you do if apple discontinued the Mac Pro?
- Thread starter Fesco
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Not happening.
The Xserve was discontinued because no one gave a crap. Apple's software and hardware for the server market, whilst I'm sure very functional and powerful, have the disadvantages of not being scalable and being limited to one platform.. nay, one machine (for serious purposes). As of speaking Apple have two choices for OS X Server, either licence it out, or kill it, because right now it has no purpose for being.
The Mac Pro however has a target audience. Apple knows all too well the importance of third party developers after the 1980's (the Mac and it's GUI lost to DOS because the Mac had no software to speak of), because ultimately the success of an operating system depends on the applications that run on it. An operating system literally operates your system, as well as providing built in functionality it also must provide a strong development environment to be successful.
Now I'm not suggesting everyone needs a Mac Pro to publish an app like Caffeine or ActionPotato to the App Store, but big apps: Photoshop, Office, AutoCad, Mathematica, you're looking at a Mac Pro. If Apple want to keep picking up new marketshare, they need a lot of software on their system and they need a professional workstation for their developers. Hell even if they only sell 10,000 a year (made up number before anyone quotes me), those 10,000 machines are enabling the development of applications that bring in billions in Mac sales, and billions in iPhone and iPad sales.
So you certainly may see less hype around the Mac Pro, you might see Apple crank up the prices on it again, you might see less updates, but that machine is not going away because Apple are not fecking stupid.
The Xserve was discontinued because no one gave a crap. Apple's software and hardware for the server market, whilst I'm sure very functional and powerful, have the disadvantages of not being scalable and being limited to one platform.. nay, one machine (for serious purposes). As of speaking Apple have two choices for OS X Server, either licence it out, or kill it, because right now it has no purpose for being.
The Mac Pro however has a target audience. Apple knows all too well the importance of third party developers after the 1980's (the Mac and it's GUI lost to DOS because the Mac had no software to speak of), because ultimately the success of an operating system depends on the applications that run on it. An operating system literally operates your system, as well as providing built in functionality it also must provide a strong development environment to be successful.
Now I'm not suggesting everyone needs a Mac Pro to publish an app like Caffeine or ActionPotato to the App Store, but big apps: Photoshop, Office, AutoCad, Mathematica, you're looking at a Mac Pro. If Apple want to keep picking up new marketshare, they need a lot of software on their system and they need a professional workstation for their developers. Hell even if they only sell 10,000 a year (made up number before anyone quotes me), those 10,000 machines are enabling the development of applications that bring in billions in Mac sales, and billions in iPhone and iPad sales.
So you certainly may see less hype around the Mac Pro, you might see Apple crank up the prices on it again, you might see less updates, but that machine is not going away because Apple are not fecking stupid.
This is the most difficult aspect of switching for a professional user (training too, if that's within budget, such as a large corporation - independents though tend to learn by doing).
Unfortunately, there isn't a large presence of Apple systems in the enterprise market. If you go into a data center, the servers have brands like Dell, HP, and IBM on them. Rare to see an XServe, and you know what happened to those...
So it seems that Apple is profit focused as any other corporation is, and if the MP is no longer financially viable (profitable), it will get the Axe. So long as they can earn what they consider an acceptable profit, it will continue to exist.
The iPhone makes a lot more money for Apple than the MP, as does the other consumer oriented devices. The only enterprise/professional systems they currently make are the MP's, as the XServes are gone (you may still be able to get one from existing stocks, but once gone, that's it).
Keep in mind, Apple's reason for existence is profit. It's really that simple, so if a line is no longer profitable, it's going way of the Dodo (look at what happened to the XServe not that long ago...).
If Apple stopped making the Mac Pro it would set into motion a domino effect. Major 3rd party pro apps would stop development and Apple would stop putting resources into all of their professional software products. This in turn would affect the laptop line as pros abandoned ship. In essence, it would gut the core foundation of their business. They would have to go into being solely a consumer media development business. However, it looks like that is where they are heading, so it's going to be a interesting few years ahead.
Notice how fresh the i products are compared to the professional line? How many iOS updates have we seen compared to Final Cut Studio, or Apple's other professional software? It's obvious that is where they are throwing the most money and resources towards. And it's not like Apple can't afford to develop for their professional line - they just choose not to because they make more money off consumer products.
Notice how fresh the i products are compared to the professional line? How many iOS updates have we seen compared to Final Cut Studio, or Apple's other professional software? It's obvious that is where they are throwing the most money and resources towards. And it's not like Apple can't afford to develop for their professional line - they just choose not to because they make more money off consumer products.
Awful, really.
I got the Pro because it's the only Mac that can handle a heavy, consistent workload without baking (and sounding) like a microwave oven.
I got the Pro because it's the only Mac that can handle a heavy, consistent workload without baking (and sounding) like a microwave oven.
My thoughts? In all hypotheticals, I prefer there be a reason the hypothetical was done. Are we talking dwindling sales? iMacs with high end graphics cards, 6TB SSD drives and 32 gigs of RAM? Or Steve going nuts?
If we assume its Apple just saying "We're moving on...", it depends on if some of that Pro-level stuff transfers to really intense work on the Macbook Pro - hopefully moving it out of its relatively stalled state.
But for the most part? Start getting better at reading non-Apple hardware specs, and start a Linux workstation.
If we assume its Apple just saying "We're moving on...", it depends on if some of that Pro-level stuff transfers to really intense work on the Macbook Pro - hopefully moving it out of its relatively stalled state.
But for the most part? Start getting better at reading non-Apple hardware specs, and start a Linux workstation.
I don't think it's such a far-fetched scenario. As the desktop chips improve, Apple could just offer a beefier iMac as a replacement to the Mac Pro. Most (though not all) Mac Pro buyers would move to this (hypothetical) high-end iMac.
The Mac Pro is a great machine, but you don't need a Mac Pro to develop for the App Store. You don't need a Mac Pro to run Photoshop or Lightroom. The only cases where the Mac Pro is warranted is CPU or disk-intensive tasks - video rendering, scientific computing.
Gamers? I'm pretty sure that most gamers prefer the options on the Windows platform.
OTOH, the related question is what is the future of the Mac Mini. I'd guess that Apple gets more net revenue from the Mac Pro than they get from the Mac Mini.
Anyway, playing armchair CEO is fun - to a point.
The Mac Pro is a great machine, but you don't need a Mac Pro to develop for the App Store. You don't need a Mac Pro to run Photoshop or Lightroom. The only cases where the Mac Pro is warranted is CPU or disk-intensive tasks - video rendering, scientific computing.
Gamers? I'm pretty sure that most gamers prefer the options on the Windows platform.
OTOH, the related question is what is the future of the Mac Mini. I'd guess that Apple gets more net revenue from the Mac Pro than they get from the Mac Mini.
Anyway, playing armchair CEO is fun - to a point.
Except you need a Mac Pro for Final Cut (if we're being perfectly honest), and doing server tasks.
Scientific computing and video rendering are both vital markets to Apple, especially in since they also sell specialized software to both. That's why the Mac Pro isn't going anywhere.
And if Pros move off the Mac, they might as well buy Windows laptops, killing MBP sales...
Oh, no! People on the internet would be upset? How awful! Apple would be doomed, that's for sure.
(Personally, I'd buy the top of the range Mac Pro with the intention of keeping it for ages.)
Hmm... continue using my Mac Pro for some time to see if Apple released something new or came to their senses, then build some kind of Hackintosh when the time came to move on.
Except I could imagine that Apple would move their server tools to other platforms (Linux or Windows). And if there were a high-end iMac, Apple could encourage video users to go with that. Do I think that Apple is going to retire the Mac Pro? I'd give it a 10% chance. Not likely, but not impossible either.
whether they discontinue or not, and i don't think they will, i will probably discontinue being a mac pro user and go hackintosh when i upgrade from my 08, because:
since i bought my machine apples margins have increased somewhat distastefully in the mac pro line
compared to other platforms, features of value to a pro user are distastefully omitted [blue-ray, esata, prob usb3 in the next revision, sata3, pci expansion options etc]
and the fact that apple seems to be trailing so far behind everyone else to implement tech these days that i'll probably just get sick of waiting for whats coming when i am ready to buy again.
i think i got good value for money with my 08, but as a final cut user i'm pretty bitter that 3 years on there is still no pro software that uses those 8 cores to their potential, i'm pretty amazed that the 2 machines since then are running usb2 and firewire 800 as their fastest native interface when e-sata and now usb3 are around- and yes i know i can get a expansion cards for those but really i shouldn't have to, and with only 4 lanes if i do then i'm basically out of room to add anything that i might actually need to put in there..
as it stands these machines are getting very long in the tooth, sure they get new processors every year but without software written to optimise what % of users really cares/notices the difference. i care more that it takes me 10 hours to transfer TB+ drives back and forth by freakin usb 2 or firewire, that there are 4 drive bays instead of 6, that i run out of room for cards.
there has been 0 innovation for too long on this machine, aside from processorsits pretty much still a 5 year old g5 tower. i think this year we'll see that change or else most would consider it DOA for serious work, or they may drop it instead if they wanted to be really lame.
At the end of the day, haven't been impressed for a long time with apple basically coasting along doing as little as possible for pro's. i'll probably never leave OSX as an operating system, no time soon anyway, but i am motivated to spend my money elsewhere when it comes to building my next machine. i'm sure it will be a pain in the arse going hackintosh, i'm sure eventually there will be a mac pro that does what i want it too. but when and at what cost? i'll save my money.. put it towards migrating over to avid media composer and pro tools, lightroom, nuke and storm, and whoever else decided to innovate and do things better and refresh their product faster
since i bought my machine apples margins have increased somewhat distastefully in the mac pro line
compared to other platforms, features of value to a pro user are distastefully omitted [blue-ray, esata, prob usb3 in the next revision, sata3, pci expansion options etc]
and the fact that apple seems to be trailing so far behind everyone else to implement tech these days that i'll probably just get sick of waiting for whats coming when i am ready to buy again.
i think i got good value for money with my 08, but as a final cut user i'm pretty bitter that 3 years on there is still no pro software that uses those 8 cores to their potential, i'm pretty amazed that the 2 machines since then are running usb2 and firewire 800 as their fastest native interface when e-sata and now usb3 are around- and yes i know i can get a expansion cards for those but really i shouldn't have to, and with only 4 lanes if i do then i'm basically out of room to add anything that i might actually need to put in there..
as it stands these machines are getting very long in the tooth, sure they get new processors every year but without software written to optimise what % of users really cares/notices the difference. i care more that it takes me 10 hours to transfer TB+ drives back and forth by freakin usb 2 or firewire, that there are 4 drive bays instead of 6, that i run out of room for cards.
there has been 0 innovation for too long on this machine, aside from processorsits pretty much still a 5 year old g5 tower. i think this year we'll see that change or else most would consider it DOA for serious work, or they may drop it instead if they wanted to be really lame.
At the end of the day, haven't been impressed for a long time with apple basically coasting along doing as little as possible for pro's. i'll probably never leave OSX as an operating system, no time soon anyway, but i am motivated to spend my money elsewhere when it comes to building my next machine. i'm sure it will be a pain in the arse going hackintosh, i'm sure eventually there will be a mac pro that does what i want it too. but when and at what cost? i'll save my money.. put it towards migrating over to avid media composer and pro tools, lightroom, nuke and storm, and whoever else decided to innovate and do things better and refresh their product faster
This is what bugs me. The typical argument for not releasing a mini-tower Mac (or any other expandable consumer Mac) was it would cannibalise Pro sales; but if Pro sales are so insignificant now, why not just do it?
Smaller margins, but larger market share. Great for users.
There is a greater demand for the Mac Pro than there is for the late Xserve. Schools have entire labs full of Mac Pros. I don't know of anyone who would choose an Xserve over a Dell server running Linux. There is some limited use to act as an iOS build server but the cost was truly outrageous.
If they discontinue the Pro I would ride my 2010 into the ground and then either a top of the line iMac with a linux server to offload tasks to or I would just go Windows again. Bottom line if I can't do what I need/want to do on an Apple then I will go somewhere else.
If they discontinue the Pro I would ride my 2010 into the ground and then either a top of the line iMac with a linux server to offload tasks to or I would just go Windows again. Bottom line if I can't do what I need/want to do on an Apple then I will go somewhere else.
The iMac is not at all a suitable computer for high end Final Cut work. You can't build render farms out of iMacs, the GPUs are subpar, no RAID, no fiber channel, glossy display, no PCI expansion...
The iMac for professional video work would be a joke.
Highly doubtful they could move their server stuff to another platform either. I mean, in theory they could, but it would cost far more to migrate than to just keep doing OS X Server.
The Mac Pro is a halo computer. The line itself probably doesn't generate a lot of profits, but the associated software, accessory and companion machine sales are probably huge. The Mac Pro props up a lot of other of Apple's businesses. The Mac Pro also gives Apple professional mind share.
Everyone is being so negative about this...if they removed the Pro, it'd only be to introduce the xMac, the cheap, easily customizable tower we've all been looking for! I'd buy one of those.
Apple Loyalty!
Cool replies! Nice to see the strong Apple Loyalty; right there to the very end - eh? I thought most of you would disown Apple if the Pro line was discontinued but I am happy to say I was wrong!
If Apple did (hypothetically) kill the Pro line they would need to use another one of their computers as a replacement, claiming that line's capability with all professional software; justifying the discontinuation of the Mac Pro. This could be the iMac (it ultimately will be when they get powerful enough) or the infamous XMac. The XMac would probably make the most sense in light of Apples recent actions, as it would be a desktop computer and therefore consumer oriented, rather than a workstation.
I would probably do what the majority of the people in this thread would do; struggle/suffer and buy the 12 core Mac Pro and hope that a later revision of the iMac that appeals to me comes along or if my prediction is right, buy the XMac. I would have gone the Hackintosh way but Im not computer literate enough to fix it when it all goes wrong and being a student, Apple care gives me that piece of mind that a Hackintosh sadly does not.
Again, this is all hypothetical - I know it is very unlikely that apple will kill the Mac Pro line unless they believe its for an incredibly good reason.
Cool replies! Nice to see the strong Apple Loyalty; right there to the very end - eh? I thought most of you would disown Apple if the Pro line was discontinued but I am happy to say I was wrong!
If Apple did (hypothetically) kill the Pro line they would need to use another one of their computers as a replacement, claiming that line's capability with all professional software; justifying the discontinuation of the Mac Pro. This could be the iMac (it ultimately will be when they get powerful enough) or the infamous XMac. The XMac would probably make the most sense in light of Apples recent actions, as it would be a desktop computer and therefore consumer oriented, rather than a workstation.
I would probably do what the majority of the people in this thread would do; struggle/suffer and buy the 12 core Mac Pro and hope that a later revision of the iMac that appeals to me comes along or if my prediction is right, buy the XMac. I would have gone the Hackintosh way but Im not computer literate enough to fix it when it all goes wrong and being a student, Apple care gives me that piece of mind that a Hackintosh sadly does not.
Again, this is all hypothetical - I know it is very unlikely that apple will kill the Mac Pro line unless they believe its for an incredibly good reason.
Keep in mind, even the XServe cut has caused a lot of internal issues at Apple. Going with what was posted here on Macrumors, I've heard of a lot of Apple employees that are openly very vocal over the XServe being cut. I've heard from several people that there is an active movement inside the company to actually save the XServe.
Now if the XServe could cause that much fuss, imagine how much fuss the Mac Pro would cause...