What You Should Know About Apple's 5G Modem

[Harry Haller]

How is it Qualcomm is not considered a monopoly?

Because they don’t meet the definition of a monopoly.
There are several other modem makers.

MediaTek and Qualcomm's rivalry heats up in 5G smartphone market – Omdia

While MediaTek is Qualcomm's biggest industry challenger, comparing the two companies as rivals is a bit of an apples-to-oranges situation as they focus on different price tiers in the 5G smartphone market.

www.lightreading.com

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I'm putting my money on the first-gen chips being a complete poop-show. "Thoughts and prayers" to those who buy a product with one in it.

 

[ghostface147]

There are some battles not worth fighting. This is one of them. This is just Apple’s stubbornness.

 

[AppleTO]

I’m assuming this chip will also be backwards compatible with 3G and 4G? Not everywhere or everyone has 5G in their data plans. Some still rely on 3G.

 

[Hopefully Smarter]

things to know"

Is it better?
It is unencumbered?
Is it better for you, the consumer?

 

[twolf2919]

Just to spite Qualcomm and save a few bucks, you'll be holding it wrong if you lose your connection of course.

It's not "just" to save a few bucks. Using their own hardware allows Apple more integration flexibility - e..g they could eventually choose to put their wireless directly on the SoC. That, in turn, helps save space and power.

 

[twolf2919]

Qualcomm would be considered a monopoly if it were using its pre-eminiant position in unfairly restricting free trade and commerce.

just being the best or better than all the rest, by itself, is not the definition of a monopoly.
as long as apple and qualcomm can (as they have) agree on a price for apple to buy qualcomm's modems. then even the impressive patent base that qualcomm has would still not qualify it as a monopoly.

now that apple ia about to make modems for its own products, it proves in the legal sense that qualcomm is not a monopoly.

if apple were ever to sell its modems to 3rd parties, and qualcomm tried to undercut apple's prices, then qualcomm might/would probably be accused of unfairly restricting competition.

That's actually not quite right - it is not illegal to be a monopoly and Qualcomm may well be one. It is the abuse of the monopoly that is illegal.

 

[imlynxy]

OMG !!! I do not want to go back to Samsung like it was during Intel modem era.

…. 3 times faster, 4 times stronger, 5 times wider and longer……

 

[CoMoMacUser]

I'm wondering when I will care about 5G modems. Where I live and places I tend go 5G is anywhere from as good to worse than my LTE data. I'll see 50 to 100mb/s on either with LTE typically besting 5G. That's still pretty good speed but I tend to disable 5G to save a little battery since it gives no advantage

Plus LTE is plenty fast for the vast majority of mobile applications, such as social media, email and YouTube. 5G is overkill, like 1 Gig fiber at home. At least 5G doesn't cost more, unlike going from 300 Mbps to 1 Gig fiber.

When I go to mobile industry analyst conferences and trade shows, the operator consensus is that they're tired of hearing vendors talk about 6G when no one has figured out how to monetize 5G to pay off all of the new infrastructure and spectrum.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Keep it on the junk phones until you include mmWave.

 

[MrAperture]

Qualcomm or bust:

iPhone 7 Plus Qualcomm LTE Modem Outperforms Intel LTE Modem by Significant Margin

With the iPhone 7 and the iPhone 7 Plus, Apple elected to use LTE modems from two different sources, Qualcomm and Intel. The A1778 and A1784 iPhone...

www.macrumors.com

Apple was also accused of throttling Qualcomm modems so that they wouldn’t be faster than Intel modems.

 

[9081094]

iPhone SE users are more budget and less performance oriented, these new modems will suit folks fine

You forget that lot’s of businesses use iPhone SE and lot’s of users have their laptops connected to the iPhone as a hotspot.

Since almost all mobile phones are equipped with 5G and lots of them come with better specifications at a much lower price, I personally find it a hard sell and missed opportunity if the new iPhone SE comes with 5G limitations in 2025.

 

[HiVolt]

Qualcomm only, thank you very much. You're talking about decades of experience manufacturing those radios. Not a chance I want Apple/Intel's half-baked tech. The last time they did it, the modems sucked in low-signal areas.

My brother still has his old XR, and at my cottage where the signals are weak, his is unusable without our cell booster turned on, while my older 12PM and now my 15PM manages to hold onto weak signal much better and is usable.

And this is just LTE, not 5G.

 

[krakenrelease]

How is it Qualcomm is not considered a monopoly?

Because there are other chip makers. Qualcomm has the best modems but other companies make chips for other uses. Broadcom is a good example.

 

[bushman4]

Apple modem. Hopefully it’s tested retested and tested again.
Not having mmWave 5G Is disappointing
I’m hopeful Apple gets it right and that it’s better than Qualcomm

 

[DarthDon]

I think you should give apple a chance. They have experience with chip development. Maybe we'll get our radio reception on the iphone in the end...

 

[Chuckeee]

I’m assuming this chip will also be backwards compatible with 3G and 4G? Not everywhere or everyone has 5G in their data plans. Some still rely on 3G.

I would certainly think 4G. But 3G is a different story. 3G is currently not available over most of the globe and there are very few places where 3G is still available. And even those places are scheduled to be decertified. The 3G portion of the spectrum has been reallocated globally.

 

[msackey]

Unless you desperately need a new phone, its probably prudent to hold off on the first batch of these new SE phones and just see how the new chip is or is not working in the real world.

That's what I'm thinking too, alas. If this chip makes it way to the iPhone 17 Pro model, I'm going to have to really think about whether I shouldn't upgrade, alas. I worry that the new modem chip may turn out to be a battery hog and/or have connectivity issues.

The article is eye-opening for me. I had no idea that just making a chip that is 5G capable is so difficult. So difficult that Intel looks to have essentially "given up", and it is taking Apple years to get the chip to production. Ugh.

I've been an Apple user since 1989 and I feel like I remember when Wifi chips first camp out for Mac laptops (it was an additional AirPort Card module that you slotted in, as I recall) there were connectivity issues and you had to reboot every now and then, or it was something annoying like that. Definitely do not want to re-live that kind of experience AGAIN, especially now when wireless connectivity is almost a given (not back then when we first had that AirPort Card).

 

[bellnen]

That's actually not quite right - it is not illegal to be a monopoly and Qualcomm may well be one. It is the abuse of the monopoly that is illegal.

And this is the reason the modems are designed somewhere, where Qualcomm will have difficult time enforcing it 😶🤔

 

[Equals42]

As an Analyst, I have no idea how wasting $1 Billion dollars was worth it for Apple. It will take decades upon decades to recoup this outlay - if it ever does. Money spent on wages and leases alone for 2000+ staff would be horendous.

Tim spends and wastes billions of Apples money again and again, like it's unlimited.

That’s a strangely unqualified statement from an analyst. If they successfully produce their own modem and stop the billions of dollars in purchase and licensing costs to Qualcomm, I imagine a $1 billion investment would be recouped quickly even with NPV calculations back to the purchase price. There were articles during the lawsuit phase that said Qualcomm charged a license fee which was predicated on the percentage of value for the end product. That’s a LOT of money in licensing. It’s also probably why we don’t see modems in MacBooks.
This is a long game proposition for Apple which may not pay off since they’d be in the same place with 6G in a few years if they aren’t able to keep up or pad their patent portfolio for 6G to help fend off Qualcomm in FRAND negotiations. As a shareholder, I don’t worry about large R&D long-plays as long as they have tangible potential returns and a realistic timeline. Apple’s R&D budget remained in the 6% of revenue range while revenue of course grew. 2023 saw a spike to 7.8% but that doesn’t align with your complaint about the Intel modem purchase.

 

[kamyk35]

For the last several years, Apple has been working to create its own 5G modem, with the eventual goal of eliminating the need to use third-party modem technology. Apple's 5G modem is inching closer to completion, and we could see the first iPhone with an Apple modem in 2025.

This guide covers everything we know about Apple's 5G modem development.

First Products With Apple's 5G Modem

Swapping out a modem chip might not sound like a big deal, but tweaking cellular technology can have a major impact. Apple has to make sure that its 5G modem is as good or better than 5G chips from its current modem supplier Qualcomm before transitioning to its own technology.

For that reason, we're expecting the 2025 iPhone SE 4 to be the first Apple device with the Apple-designed 5G modem. It is a lower volume device than a flagship smartphone, and it will let Apple see modem performance at scale in consumer hands before bringing the Apple modem to the main iPhone line.

According to current rumors, iPhone SE 4 will come out in early 2025, likely sometime before April. After Apple releases the iPhone SE 4 with Apple modem, we could see it in a second device as soon as September 2025.

Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo has suggested that the ultra-thin iPhone 17 "Air" or "Slim" that's in development will also use the Apple modem. Apple will ship an estimated 35 to 40 million iPhone units with the Apple modem in 2025, and from there, if all goes well, more iPhones will adopt the technology in 2026 and 2027.

No mmWave 5G?

In September, DigiTimes suggested that Apple's first 5G modem chip would not support faster mmWave technology, and would instead be limited to sub-6GHz 5G. mmWave 5G is the fastest 5G, but it is short range and limited to big venues and major cities. In suburban and rural areas, sub-6GHz is used.

Sub-6GHz isn't as fast as mmWave 5G, but it is much longer range, which makes it more viable for widespread use. DigiTimes believes that Apple will continue to rely on Qualcomm modems for iPhone models that support mmWave, which is essentially U.S. iPhones. mmWave is still limited in availability in many countries, so Apple only has mmWave-capable modems in iPhones sold in the United States.

Bloomberg's Mark Gurman has also said that one of the modem chips that Apple is developing does not have mmWave 5G, so that lends some extra credibility to the DigiTimes report.

Possible All-in-One Chip

A recent report from 9to5Mac suggested that Apple's first modem chip would in fact be more than just a modem, combining 5G connectivity, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, and GPS into a single chip. That does not align with what we've heard from Gurman, however. While Apple is said to be working on an all-in-one chip, it isn't something that is expected for some time.

Gurman believes the first version of the Apple 5G modem will not measure up to Qualcomm technology, and that the first custom design won't bring noticeable benefits for users. Apple is hoping that the modem will eventually evolve into a more advanced component, cutting down on the need for multiple chips to save money and internal space.

With the two separate reports, it is not clear if the Apple chip will be a standalone modem or a chip that incorporates multiple components, but given reports of development difficulties, Apple might not be at the all-in-one chip point.

Qualcomm Dispute

Right now, all iPhones use Qualcomm 5G modems, and Apple has to buy the modem chips and pay a patent licensing fee for using Qualcomm technology. Back in 2017, Apple sued Qualcomm over anticompetitive patent licensing practices and also claimed that Qualcomm had failed to pay more than $1 billion in royalty rebates.

After filing the lawsuit, Apple attempted to cut ties with Qualcomm and opted to use only Intel modem chips in the 2018 iPhone XS/XR models and the 2019 iPhone 11 lineup. Apple had used Intel chips for some iPhones in the past, opting for a mix of Qualcomm and Intel modems in different regions, but Apple wanted to stop relying on Qualcomm entirely.

Intel-only chips were fine for the 2018 and 2019 iPhones, but for the 2020 iPhone 12 lineup, Apple wanted to transition to 5G technology. Apple's plan was to use Intel 5G chips, but Intel struggled with development. Intel missed developmental deadlines, and it became clear that Intel 5G chips were not going to happen.

Apple needed the 5G modems from Intel to be functional and ready to test by summer 2019, and completed chips needed to be shipped to Apple in early 2020, which wasn't going to happen. Apple spoke with Samsung and Mediatek about the possibility of 5G modems to avoid having to make amends with Qualcomm, but it turned out Qualcomm modems were the only option.

In April 2019, Apple settled with Qualcomm and the two companies dropped all litigation. Apple paid Qualcomm $5 to $6 billion in late royalty fees, and agreed to continue to pay ongoing patent royalties for every iPhone manufactured, plus the company signed a six-year licensing deal with Qualcomm.

The 2020 iPhones ended up using Qualcomm's 5G chips, and every iPhone after that has also used Qualcomm technology. Apple most recently extended its modem licensing deal with Qualcomm through March 2027, so we will likely see Qualcomm modems in some devices up until then as Apple transitions to its own technology.

Intel Purchase

Just after Apple settled with Qualcomm, Intel announced plans to exit the 5G modem business. Intel was not able to make a 5G modem to compete with Qualcomm, and that was the end of Intel's modem business. Intel met customer commitments for ex... Click here to read rest of article

Article Link: What You Should Know About Apple's 5G Modem

Good move by Apple, if they launch it, it will work, I have no qualms about it.
Qualcomm is a monopoly, no ifs & buts!

 

[Saturn007]

There are some battles not worth fighting. This is one of them. This is just Apple’s stubbornness.

Might be more worth the battle than the Masimo and the O2 sensor in Apple Watches… The relative amounts of money involved must be staggering — the modem billions; the O2 sensor, peanuts!

As to O2, they should channel Victor Kiam and Remington:

“I liked it so much I bought the company.”​

 

[vmiyoshi]

No mmWave, I’m out. I use mmWave alot when testing which is the main reason I haven’t upgraded from the M1 iPad.

 

[vmiyoshi]

Apple modem. Hopefully it’s tested retested and tested again.
Not having mmWave 5G Is disappointing
I’m hopeful Apple gets it right and that it’s better than Qualcomm

I don’t believe Apple’s modem will surpass Qualcomm’s. Qualcomm is the industry standard. Furthermore, Apple’s decision not to support mmWave is a negative move. I understand that mmWave doesn’t travel as far and has other drawbacks, but it’s faster and has been a part of the 5G standard since its inception. Limiting 5G to mid-band is a step backward. Additionally, there’s no support for NR-DC.

 

[cjsuk]

This is with TIM but with a contract.
For tourists you have https://www.tim.it/fisso-e-mobile/estero/dall-italia/tim-tourist
Other providers have similar offers

Thanks for the reply - appreciated. Will look into them 👍