What's the consensus on the appearance of Yosemite vs. El Capitan and earlier?

[B-Eugen]

I have no problems whatsoever seeing or reading anything with Mavericks or earlier OS X versions. I need to put glasses on to read Yosemite and El Captan. It's a matter of contrast. My eyes aren't that bad, but I can only imagine what effect this "brilliant design" trend has on people who have moderate to serious vision problems. This complaint has to do with functionality, not "design fads" that Jony Ive so dearly adhere's to. He doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[F1Mac]

The "Yosemite Looks Terrible" thread, if that's the right name, had over 300,000 views. That's an awful lot, IMHO. That's a lot of dissatisfied users.

300, 000 views means nothing. I posted numerous times myself in that thread, how many times did I "view" it? I have no idea. It wasn't really constructive anymore to post something in that thread before if got locked, but that didn't stop me from checking the new posts. People kept coming back to say what, that the UI sucked, that Ive should get fired, that they were gonna switch to Windows and blahblahblah. It was a bit redundant.

 

[Ritsuka]

I viewed that thread just for the fun of reading the rant posted there.
By the way, El Capitan text is more readable, for example the title of a window is now black instead of gray.

 

[randolorian]

People put too much hate on Jony Ive. It's not like he single-handedly made all the styling decisions regarding the current, flatter Apple operating systems.

Read around; you'll find that this guy played a large role in iOS/OSX UI redesigns:
http://www.apple.com/pr/bios/alan-dye.html

 

[TMRJIJ]

The design trend of Yosemite and El Capitan is based on the fact that Jony Ive sees some people as clearly insignificant, of little or no value, or just inferior. My vision isn't 20/20 but I have no problem seeing ANYTHING with Mavericks or earlier. I find myself straining to see what now appear to be fuzzy text and icons. I've written web sites and another observation I've noticed on iPhones running iOS 7 (or greater) as well as the dynamic duo (Yosemite and El Capitan) is that the text is often washed out on a glaring white background with gray text that should really be black or near black.

Putting a box designer who's primary concentration is on superficial style trends in charge of UI design for an operating system was an incredibly stupid idea. Our website data implies there's firm 40% that aren't willing/haven't made the switch. That seems like a lot to me. The "Yosemite Looks Terrible" thread, if that's the right name, had over 300,000 views. That's an awful lot, IMHO. That's a lot of dissatisfied users.

I disagree, respectfully.
I didn't know you knew Jony Ive personally. My vision and the OS X 10.5 - 10.9 design did not work well together. Luckily they had awesome Accessibility features. Now text are much clearer, design is cleaner, and transparency make my background images vibrant.
You are judging by your website data? That's some awesome statistics of what all Mac users think.
One of my threads gets 115,000 views yet I only track 20,000 users using my software. MacRumors Thread Views do not matter if several users repeatedly post back on the thread, reading certain pages, and bots are included.

 

[ZVH]

After spending more time with El Capitan I must admit, it looks a lot better than Yosemite. I really can't put my finger on it but it just seems to look sharper and clearer. I still don't think it looks great, but at least it seem somewhat more tolerable.

Is this my imagination? Did they put something in Yosemite to blur the appearance of the user interface? It just seems so annoying to look at it IMHO.

 

[S.B.G]

The differences are so subtle, that I hardly notice any difference at all.

 

[hamis92]

I think simply the fact that they changed the system font to San Francisco goes a long way. Looks a lot clearer on non-Retina displays as well.

 

[KALLT]

After spending more time with El Capitan I must admit, it looks a lot better than Yosemite. I really can't put my finger on it but it just seems to look sharper and clearer. I still don't think it looks great, but at least it seem somewhat more tolerable.

Is this my imagination? Did they put something in Yosemite to blur the appearance of the user interface? It just seems so annoying to look at it IMHO.

My guess is the typeface. It really does a lot.

 

[loon3y]

Honestly, i think its great.

Making few cosmetic changes here and there, but keeping the foundation (of usability) the same.


Im glad they're no where near going towards Windows, where they just get rid of the start menu to try something "new".

Whoever decided on that needs to get fired.



Its perfect, what you can ask for an upgrade. Cosmetics is slightly better, more usability and an upgrade on one of the more popular and essential apps

NOTES.

I use this for work and personal usage its so great.


Whether I'm on my computer, iPhone, iPad, International iPhone (old iPhone), iPad, iPod (i use for testing).

Hey need my a customers server information? ERP station login info? etc etc etc. I have it right here, and if i need to take notes quickly while in a meeting. I can just take my iPad or hell if i forget to bring anything and everything, i also have my phone right?


it takes note taking for meetings, training sessions, sales demos, much easier


not to mention personal notes like Wishlist, Songs/albums that i hear i want to download, friends+family wi-fi passwords, it goes on and on.

 

[vista980622]

I wasn't a fan of Yosemite, and I don't see El Capitan as an improvement compared to Mavericks or before, but it does seem better than Yosemite to me. Almost tolerable in fact.

Observations:

• The fonts, to me are clearer
• The idiotic, overly aggressive translucency seems toned down
• The contrast with the "glaring white everywhere" that seemed present in Yosemite is toned down.
• The controls now at least have slight 3D effects (but unfortunately, so do text input fields…Jonathan Ive just doesn't "get" standards, as far as I can tell!)

I don't see this as an improvement compared to Mavericks and its predecessors, but I might be able to tolerate it. With Snow Leopard through Mavericks, it was visually like I was eating a fine meal. Yosemite was like eating a meal made of canned Tuna. This, at least looks like it's a hamburger. Not quite what I wanted, but at least tolerable.

One caveat: Display preferences are now "dummified." You can't really configure anything with your display. Apparently Apple is targeting the IQ less than 70 crowd. If you're a photographer or you need to be able to configure your monitor for exact color profiles, say bye-bye to Mac OS X! I guess the focus of Apple is to make everything as stupid as possible.

I totally agree with you.
Every. Single. Point.

 

[vista980622]

I actually hated the look of Yosemite when it was first released. Now, Mavericks looks super dated to me. I could never go back.

It was the same thing when iOS 7 came out. Hated it at first, but now iOS 6 looks dated and terrible looking to me now. Seeing an old device still running iOS 6 makes me cringe by how dated it looks.

There's an experiment that works on 95% of people who believes previous design is "dated"/"tacky" as soon as they get used to a new design:

Try putting a photo that's natural and correctly-colored into Photoshop/Lightroom/Photos, and crank up the saturation. Look at it for 15 seconds.

Then you revert it back.

You'll find that although the original look is natural and honest, you will most likely prefer the over-saturated one over the original one.

Does it work on you?

If yes, congratulations. You are making emotional decisions on aesthetic choices. As long as Apple keeps pumping up the overall vibrancy of OS X (by replacing visual comfort such as subtle gradients with stark white), replacing muted colors with more vibrant ones, you'll keep preferring newer designs. This is great because you'll ENJOY newer apps bundled with more vibrant aesthetics.

If no, also congratulations. You will make decisions based on reasoning and logic. This is also great because it helps you with your eyes.

 

[vista980622]

I have no problems whatsoever seeing or reading anything with Mavericks or earlier OS X versions. I need to put glasses on to read Yosemite and El Captan. It's a matter of contrast. My eyes aren't that bad, but I can only imagine what effect this "brilliant design" trend has on people who have moderate to serious vision problems. This complaint has to do with functionality, not "design fads" that Jony Ive so dearly adhere's to. He doesn't know what he's doing.

You are over-dramatising. I am sorry you have legibility issues with the new UI style, but I can ensure you that this is far from being a conspiracy agains you or people like you. Neither does Ive or his team see people like you as 'insignificant'. There will always be people who have problems with changes, whatever these changes might be. Can't please everybody nor should one aim to do that. I also do not believe that the supposed legibility issues of the new design are even 'real'. Its most likely a psychological phenomenon where people who don't like the new appearance claim that its hard to read/see or whatever. I have migrated my entire department to 10.10 and no-one ever complained about any kind of legibility problems.

It is real. An RGB picker proves that color of almost every single text label in apps such as System Preferences and Finder, application sidebars (or as Apple calls it, Source View), button captions on menu bars, in Yosemite/El Capitan is shallower than Mavericks.

Here is one of the examples, proved by RGB indicator.
Tip: Find a non-Retina device, then click to view in full size, you'll see the difference.

 

[leman]

It is real. An RGB picker proves that color of almost every single text label in apps such as System Preferences and Finder, application sidebars (or as Apple calls it, Source View), button captions on menu bars, in Yosemite/El Capitan is shallower than Mavericks.

I don't really see how this shows that Yosemite/El Capitan has legibility issues? Yep, its slightly brighter. But when I look at the very screenshot you have posted, the El Capitan labels are much clearer, at least to my eyes.

 

[vista980622]

I don't really see how this shows that Yosemite/El Capitan has legibility issues? Yep, its slightly brighter. But when I look at the very screenshot you have posted, the El Capitan labels are much clearer, at least to my eyes.

Find a non-Retina device, then click to view in full size, you'll see the difference.
In case System Preferences isn't enough evidence, here's Finder.
(Sidebar is the worst offender here.)

 

[hamis92]

Find a non-Retina device, then click to view in full size, you'll see the difference.
In case System Preferences isn't enough evidence, here's Finder.

View attachment 570382

Sure, you can go over all text labels in the UI with a colorimeter, but you have to consider contrast as well. For example in the title bars, the text in El Capitan is slightly lighter than that in Mavericks, but the title bar itself is also lighter – contrast is preserved pretty well.

I wish this thread wouldn't become the new "Yosemite looks terrible". I think most of the issues have already been brought up over there to the degree that it feels pointless to do it all over again.

 

[vista980622]

I wish this thread wouldn't become the new "Yosemite looks terrible".

Neither do I.
I am just trying to say there are real legibility problems for real people.
You're not affected by it? I am super happy for you.
But there are people affected by it, even if it's minority, they're not making things up.

P.s: Light text on light background does not reserve contrast. It makes eyes sour.
This is especially pronounced in the sidebar.

 

[KALLT]

I think we can all agree though that the SF typeface has improved the legibility, despite the shortcomings in Yosemite. Helvetica Neue should have never made it into OS X like that, especially not with those small font sizes. It was not optimised for it and Apple implied that this is true when they explained how they focussed on legibility at small sizes first when designing SF. I can finally distinguish lIiL from each other again.

On a different note, I do see that Apple is still not consistent about the text colour upon blurred backgrounds. On iOS they use text colours that adapt to the vibrancy effect of the surface underneath. You can see this most clearly when you open the Music app and look at the song information in the now-playing screen: the text is masked with and adjusted to the blurred background. This effect I don’t see as much on OS X. For instance, in the sidebar of Mail, the text is always dark. If your wallpaper is dark too, the text will become more difficult to read.

I think I would have had less trouble with the translucency if Apple would at least ensure that the text colour is optimal on all surfaces. It’s just too much hit and miss. On iOS I went through dozens of wallpapers, because the translucency effect in the Dock and the new Spotlight screen ruins the overall look and legibility of the text.

 

[Planey28]

There's an experiment that works on 95% of people who believes previous design is "dated"/"tacky" as soon as they get used to a new design:

Try putting a photo that's natural and correctly-colored into Photoshop/Lightroom/Photos, and crank up the saturation. Look at it for 15 seconds.

Then you revert it back.

You'll find that although the original look is natural and honest, you will most likely prefer the over-saturated one over the original one.

Does it work on you?

If yes, congratulations. You are making emotional decisions on aesthetic choices. As long as Apple keeps pumping up the overall vibrancy of OS X (by replacing visual comfort such as subtle gradients with stark white), replacing muted colors with more vibrant ones, you'll keep preferring newer designs. This is great because you'll ENJOY newer apps bundled with more vibrant aesthetics.

If no, also congratulations. You will make decisions based on reasoning and logic. This is also great because it helps you with your eyes.

Or in fact, your opinion is not the only one and people who enjoy the new design language (the vast majority, stats would suggest) are not simply making decisions without 'reasoning and logic'.

 

[azpc]

I think translucent sidebars and Menus are harder to read.

I sent Apple feedback requesting the following:

Ability to set the level of translucency - high and low. Low should be about 30% less translucent than it currently is.

Ability to set which items are translucent. Example: Turn off translucency for the menus but leave the Dock translucent.

Ability to change the Dock from gray to a color of my choice if translucency is turned off.

Ability to change the Finder Sidebar from gray to a color of my choice if translucency is turned off.

Ability to change the color of folders to a color of my choice. Lots of bright folders make it difficult to find the right folder.

 

[dugbug]

I wasn't a fan of Yosemite, and I don't see El Capitan as an improvement compared to Mavericks or before, but it does seem better than Yosemite to me. Almost tolerable in fact.

Observations:

• The fonts, to me are clearer
• The idiotic, overly aggressive translucency seems toned down
• The contrast with the "glaring white everywhere" that seemed present in Yosemite is toned down.
• The controls now at least have slight 3D effects (but unfortunately, so do text input fields…Jonathan Ive just doesn't "get" standards, as far as I can tell!)

I don't see this as an improvement compared to Mavericks and its predecessors, but I might be able to tolerate it. With Snow Leopard through Mavericks, it was visually like I was eating a fine meal. Yosemite was like eating a meal made of canned Tuna. This, at least looks like it's a hamburger. Not quite what I wanted, but at least tolerable.

One caveat: Display preferences are now "dummified." You can't really configure anything with your display. Apparently Apple is targeting the IQ less than 70 crowd. If you're a photographer or you need to be able to configure your monitor for exact color profiles, say bye-bye to Mac OS X! I guess the focus of Apple is to make everything as stupid as possible.

'idiotic, overly aggressive translucency'? I prefer yosemite look over mavericks. Its not even close. So I hope for more idiocy.

 

[tkermit]

Anyone know whether El Cap is bringing back shadows at the top of windows? Here's a Yosemite screenshot to demonstrate the issue:

 

[hojx]

Neither do I.
I am just trying to say there are real legibility problems for real people.
You're not affected by it? I am super happy for you.
But there are people affected by it, even if it's minority, they're not making things up.

P.s: Light text on light background does not reserve contrast. It makes eyes sour.
This is especially pronounced in the sidebar.

Except people do not just rely on text. Other visual cues should be accounted for, e.g. the thumbnails in System Preferences, the 'usual' position of the setting you want to go into (memory), etc.

The text in El Capitan is not illegible to most people, but if you indeed have legibility issues I know you are not making it up and Apple don't think you're lying as well. That's why there are Accessibility settings.

 

[KALLT]

Anyone know whether El Cap is bringing back shadows at the top of windows? Here's a Yosemite screenshot to demonstrate the issue:
View attachment 570422

Doesn’t look like it.

 

[hojx]

Anyone know whether El Cap is bringing back shadows at the top of windows? Here's a Yosemite screenshot to demonstrate the issue:
View attachment 570422

Very slightly, but its there.