What's the point of the MBP when the MBA uses the same chips

[leman]

My point still stands, if my iPhone can see me and in split second unlock my phone, why cant my laptop?

Because your iPhone is 4-5 times thicker than your laptop display. The camera sensors used for faceID are huge, they won’t fit into the lid of your MacBook Pro.

Microsoft uses a different approach, as they rely on a simple IR camera. This allows them to make the system more compact but also arguably easier to spoof (a photo on special paper seems to be sufficient). Apples FaceID also has been spoofed, but you need to use elaborate face masks.

 

[SchrodingersMartian]

Not sure if I want to downgrade from an MBP 16" to an MacBook Air or not. it is a Sophies Choice I guess.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

From a similar thread:

I made a similar deduction and ordered a nicely spec'ed Air.

The only things better with the Pro is higher performance (they can push the chip much harder with active cooling), and a 500 (to 400) nits brightness, as far as I can see.

Though - on the other hand - a cool, silent, fanless MacBook Air was yet another thing convincing me.

The touch bar was actually one of the reasons AGAINST the Pro, for me, and basically clinched it.

Forgot about longer battery power on the Pros, but that has little interest for me, so I ordered a nicely spec'ed Air.

Unless you need to do heavy lifting (video editing, 3D rendering, etc) the Air should be more than enough for most people.

 

[deeddawg]

Not sure if I want to downgrade from an MBP 16" to an MacBook Air or not. it is a Sophies Choice I guess.

My suggestion is first stop and figure out just what problem you're seeking to solve in the short term.

It seems quite probable that Apple will eventually transition the four-port MBPs over to ARM - including the MBP16.

So why would you need to do anything right now?

 

[KPOM]

I know we have to wait for actual benchmarks and we don't know if Apple is imposing default throttling in the MBA to purposely make it slower, or the heat will naturally cause it to slow down but all things being equal they are the same computer, one just has a fan

Edit:
Let me add that if apple gave us a better web cam, or more storage/memory in the MBP then that could help differentiate between the two models but as it stands, why spend 300 when you're basically getting the same computer

It does get better microphones, speakers, a 500-nit screen, and the TouchBar, as well as a bigger battery. Granted, for most users I now think the Air is a much better proposition at $300 less, but I do think that those who want to process large videos or do anything that requires sustained CPU or GPU usage, the fans in the Pro might make a difference. I guess we should compare Cinebench scores next week once users start posting them.

That said, I’d like to see Apple revive the 12” MacBook. Even if they make it a little bit thicker to accommodate the “Magic Keyboard,” it seems like the perfect format to showcase how powerful the M1 is even with passive cooling. 10-12 hour battery life would be just fine with me.

 

[acidfast7_redux]

So why would you need to do anything right now?

my 2012 rMBP broke last month. ugh. glad i waited.

 

[mclld]

So can this air and the mini edit 4k video?

 

[KPOM]

For a so called pro machine, the specs are baffling

In this day and age, the web cam is woefully inadequate (we're more remote then ever and a decent web cam in 2020/2021 is a must), as is the ram. I mean, people were crowing how they need 64GB in the MBP forum, and here the professional series laptop starts off with 8, which is too small and only goes to 16GB. At least storage isn't hamstrung like memory is, so that's a plus but the price to upgrade the ram seems a bit stiff to me.

Remember it’s replacing the Coffee Lake ”base” Pro, which only supported 16GB anyway. I think this is mostly a marketing ploy. Apple is confident enough in the performance of the chip to put it in a machine with a “Pro” branding.

 

[KPOM]

So can this air and the mini edit 4k video?

Yes, but if you are going to do a lot of editing, you might benefit from the active cooling on the Pro.

 

[SchrodingersMartian]

My suggestion is first stop and figure out just what problem you're seeking to solve in the short term.

It seems quite probable that Apple will eventually transition the four-port MBPs over to ARM - including the MBP16.

So why would you need to do anything right now?I guess its fear of missing out. I was thought the Keynote was going to be a lot more Earth shattering than it was thought we were going to 80 percent improvement and that sorta thing but there is always next year ☺️ at this point the Apple Glasses and Studio Headphones are all I am looking forward to.

 

[KPOM]

Can it run windows in bootcamp?

No Apple Silicon Mac is ever going to run Windows in BootCamp. Whether it runs Windows at all is up to Microsoft, not Apple, as only they can decide whether or not to release Windows on ARM for retail sale. Apple didn’t mention virtualization as they did back in June. Perhaps they will when the higher-end 13” Pro and 16” Pro get updated to the M chips. But my guess is that it isn’t really a priority for either Apple or Microsoft.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

So can this air and the mini edit 4k video?

The mini and the pro were said to be able to edit 8K, as far as I remember from the presentation. Both of them have cooling fans.

I'm guessing the Air should handle 4K editing, but that remains to be seen.

Edit: "Tested with prerelease Final Cut Pro 10.5 using a 55-second clip with 4K Apple ProRes RAW media, at 4096x2160 resolution and 59.94 frames per second, transcoded to Apple ProRes 422." from the MacBook Air fine print.

Edit 2: The Mac mini and MBP were both "[t]ested with prerelease Final Cut Pro 10.5 using a 2-minute project with 8K Apple ProRes 422 HQ media, at 8192x4320 resolution and 23.98 frames per second.

 

[deeddawg]

I guess its fear of missing out. I was thought the Keynote was going to be a lot more Earth shattering than it was thought we were going to 80 percent improvement and that sorta thing but there is always next year ☺️ at this point the Apple Glasses and Studio Headphones are all I am looking forward to.

Please don't misunderstand, my intent was merely to help you to think through your reasons for buying one of the new systems given you suggested you thought it would be a downgrade.

As far as I'm concerned, "just 'cuz I want it! New! Shiny!" is a fine reason (assuming one can afford it, nobody's gonna go hungry, etc. )

 

[bwillwall]

Wait and see how big of a deal cooling is with the M1.

 

[DHagan4755]

Yes, but if you are going to do a lot of editing, you might benefit from the active cooling on the Pro.

We just don't know what the margin will be between the Air & the Pro/Mini quite yet. Will the MBP with active cooling be what percent faster at sustained load? To be determined...

 

[leman]

Speaking about camera quality, here is a video interview with Apple executives. One of them is using an M1 MBA. Judge the quality for yourself.

 

[Cape Dave]

#1 - we don't know the chips aren't binned in some manner with perhaps higher TDP chips going to the MBP

#2 - All modern CPUs throttle. Otherwise they waste potential burst performance when starting at a lower temp. An actively cooled system (MBP) will typically throttle less than a passively cooled system (MBA), resulting in better sustained heavy CPU load performance. What that look like from a quantitative standpoint remains to be seen.

#3 - Unsure where you're seeing $300 difference, I'm seeing $250 difference when comparing name RAM/SSD configs. There's also the MBP having a 25% brighter screen, Touchbar, upgraded mic/speakers, more battery life. Whatever value those have will be an individual thing.

I think we all know that the touch bar subtracts value

 

[Lord Hamsa]

I'm not understanding the ARM line-up as it stands. Apple is using the exact same chips for all three arm computers

In the past there was differences to justify the purchase, but now you'll be getting the exact same CPU, GPU, memory, and I'd postulate nearly the same performance. Why buy a MBP when I can have a MBA for 300 less? What am I missing? The fact the MBA is fanless and will throttle so it heat will require it to run slower?

• Larger battery for longer life
• Active cooling to allow for sustained peak performance
• Better display
• Better sound
• Touch Bar (take that as a positive or negative as you like)

And that's what we already know. There's probably more we'll find out once the serious reviews start coming in.

 

[Josh125]

• Better display

Didn't Apple upgrade the MBA to a P3 screen as well? So it just comes down to the additional 100 nits, correct?

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Didn't Apple upgrade the MBA to a P3 screen as well? So it just comes down to the additional 100 nits, correct?

That is correct.

The MBP has ±25% brighter screen than the Air.

There are whispers that this is done by Apple - in software - to distinguish the two, but I cannot confirm that.

 

[UltimateSyn]

Speaking about camera quality, here is a video interview with Apple executives. One of them is using an M1 MBA. Judge the quality for yourself.

Damn, that looks quite nice.

 

[theluggage]

Can it run windows in bootcamp? Can I put 32GB into the laptop? Is the web cam better? Can this professional laptop run a eGPU? Apple limited the number of TB ports in the ARM mac, where as the intel has more

The previous $1299 13" Intel MBP couldn't take 32GB or RAM.
The previous $1299 13" Intel MBP only had 2 TB ports.
The previous $1299 13" Intel MBP lacked the extra image processing on the webcam (...and, for pity's sake, it's only a webcam, not like the cameras on a phone/tablet which can actually be used for photography - it's going to get compressed to shreds by Zoom/whatever, anyway).

The new $1299 13" M1 MBP claims to have a super-duper new built-in microphone system - now that has the potential to make your video conference persona win friends and influence people. Acceptable audio is a far more elusive goal than acceptable video.

The new $1299 13" M1 MBP claims to have "up to 5x" the graphics performance of the old one. If that's even half true, it won't need an eGPU - at least, not for the sort of things people buy the lowest-end MBP for.

Forget the hype on Tuesday - if you go onto the Apple web page for a particular Mac model and still see a large friendly button for the "higher end" Intel version (which is currently true of both the 13" MBP and the Mini), that means that even Apple doesn't think the M1 version is a complete replacement, yet.

...and, yes, Windows Bootcamp is going away. That's been on the cards since ARM Macs became a plausible rumour. OTOH Parallels have ARM virtualisation coming Real Soon Now - quite likely with Windows 10 for ARM unless Microsoft and Apple get into a spitting conference (given that M1 Macs are probably already the #2 selling* ARM-based personal computer).

(* after the Raspberry Pi, and ignoring phones and tablets, of course)

 

[JMacHack]

Can it run windows in bootcamp?

No, not a big deal.

Can I put 32GB into the laptop?

You couldn't put any RAM in an Apple laptop since 2013.

Is the web cam better?

With the same AI methods as the iPhone camera? I'd say that's an improvement.

Can this professional laptop run a eGPU?

At the apparent power of the iGPU a more powerful eGPU would be bottlenecked by TB3 anyway.

Apple limited the number of TB ports in the ARM mac, where as the intel has more

In using my TB dock, I've used exactly one cord.

Your link literally says that the last year's MacBook Air has one of the best webcams. Also, every other laptop on that list has a 720p camera. Did you ben read it or did you just link it?

P.S. That's what "HD" means. Show me some laptops with a full HD or better webcam.

I would think that a staff member of Macrumors would actually read their sources. Guess I was expecting too much.

 

[D.T.]

• Larger battery for longer life
• Active cooling to allow for sustained peak performance
• Better display
• Better sound
• Touch Bar (take that as a positive or negative as you like)

And that's what we already know. There's probably more we'll find out once the serious reviews start coming in.

Right. Plus the MBA is only $300 less with the 7-core GPU so that's not a direct comparison to the GPU in the MBP, if you bump the MBA to the 8-core (for a direct comparison, at least in terms of core-counts), and select the MBP config with matching RAM/Storage, it's ~$250 difference.

That's only ~$83/hour for the additional battery life All the other perks are just icing on the cake

 

[Boil]

...with some caveats like the disabled GPU core in the lower-end to save costs...

I doubt Apple is disabling a GPU core to "save costs"...

If anything, that would raise costs, because they are taking a perfectly good chip that could go into a MBP or mini & devaluing it...

More than likely Apple is binning the M1 chips, with the "better binned" models going towards the MBP & mini...

The 7-core GPU M1 chips are the ones that might have had a faulty / underperforming GPU core, so it is "lasered off" & those M1 chips are strictly for the low-end MBA...?