When are 6 cores better than 4 cores for home, non-pro use?

[Ploki]

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with you on this one, and that you addressed the one point I forgot to.

That said, I acknowledge the internal mac mini hard drive has faster sequential read/write then an external SSD, but for most applicable uses (excluding extreme circumstantial pro use) , it's the same difference as tasks are bottlenecked elsewhere and the IOPS specs are comparable.

It doesn't tho, if you get a nVME SSD via thunderbolt3.

 

[Cheapassmac]

It doesn't tho, if you get a nVME SSD via thunderbolt3.

Sure, if you want the same performance, but most people would save money with just a regular ssd with usb3. A casual user probably wouldn't even notice outside of a one time copying files over.

 

[deviant]

That just sounds like rationalizing how the i5 choice is okay. I'm not debating that. How is it the sweet spot when the i7 is faster at the same price, or just literally $20 more if you need same ssd space. Considering that the i7 is at least 10% faster even on single thread tasks, that's seems like a good value for free or literally $20 (not a typo, though $200 if you want Apple internal).

Micro Center sells their house brand (Inland) 128GB SATA SSD for $20. I've never used the 128GB model but the 512GB model was well worth the $60 I paid for it.

You cant compare a SATA SSD to the NVMe/PCIe SSD that the mac has, to be fair.

I'm from Italy and just checked the prices on amazon (that's the cheapest option by far). 128gb sandisk is 30 bucks. I must say that I feel surprised, last time I got a 128gb ssd for my friend was almost 2 years ago and it was 60 bucks, so you guys were right..

I actually have a 256gb 840evo lying around that I don't use from the iMac that died last year, that might actually be an option.. putting iTunes and photos library on it and going with i7+128gb, even though it's still not much, and it's slower in write speeds, but it might just be doable.

how is the i7 vs i5 in terms of temperature and especially fan noise? I need my pc to be silent.

 

[Cheapassmac]

I'm from Italy and just checked the prices on amazon (that's the cheapest option by far). 128gb sandisk is 30 bucks. I must say that I feel surprised, last time I got a 128gb ssd for my friend was almost 2 years ago and it was 60 bucks, so you guys were right..

I actually have a 256gb 840evo lying around that I don't use from the iMac that died last year, that might actually be an option.. putting iTunes and photos library on it and going with i7+128gb, even though it's still not much, and it's slower in write speeds, but it might just be doable.

how is the i7 vs i5 in terms of temperature and especially fan noise? I need my pc to be silent.

Inland SSDs are sold on Amazon, I see it at $22 for 128gb, and $35 for 256gb.

The 2018 minis are silent on light use, and have about the same noise under load. All three models use the same cooling system. The i7 would take the longest to get under load due to better single core turbo and higher cache though. So I guess in the long run, it might be loud less frequent.

Honest, it's not that bad under load. I barely notice it if I'm watching any movies or playing games. It's very noticeable if you're in a dead silent room.

 

[deviant]

Inland SSDs are sold on Amazon, I see it at $22 for 128gb, and $35 for 256gb.

The 2018 minis are silent on light use, and have about the same noise under load. All three models use the same cooling system. The i7 would take the longest to get under load due to better single core turbo and higher cache though. So I guess in the long run, it might be loud less frequent.

Honest, it's not that bad under load. I barely notice it if I'm watching any movies or playing games. It's very noticeable if you're in a dead silent room.

That's US amazon. No such brand on Italian amazon. anyway, it's practically the same, 20 or 30 doesn't make a whole lot of a difference.
consider that I went from a totally silent iMac to a 2012 MBA that spins to the max when photos decide to do photo analysis for 1 minute and it's 5000rpm. sometimes even doing the simplest things it goes to the max in no time.
so I guess the Mac mini will be a lot quieter.. especially, like you say, the i7 will take more to heat up just because of how much power it has in reserve, right?

 

[Cheapassmac]

Every mac is different, and people's opinion on loudness.

But I will say that I have a 2017 macbook pro and it rams up the fan and noise a lot more then my mac mini.

Mac mini only ramps up the fan when I do video encoding or playing games. It's literally silent for me otherwise.

 

[trifid]

An i7 mac mini still doesn't perform as smoothly on 4k displays with scaling even with more ram which means to truly enjoy responsiveness you'll still need an eGPU.

In my particular case I noticed significant sluggishness resizing windows and zooming on Illustrator documents for example.

With a limited budget I'd argue that it's far more valuable an i3 + eGPU combo for 4k owners, i3 is still a beast of a cpu, rather than betting so much on that i7 that at the end of the day in my view is severely bottlenecked by the lack of a discrete GPU.

 

[Cheapassmac]

An i7 mac mini still doesn't perform as smoothly on 4k displays with scaling even with more ram which means to truly enjoy responsiveness you'll still need an eGPU.

In my particular case I noticed significant sluggishness resizing windows and zooming on Illustrator documents for example.

With a limited budget I'd argue that it's far more valuable an i3 + eGPU combo for 4k owners, i3 is still a beast of a cpu, rather than betting so much on that i7 that at the end of the day in my view is severely bottlenecked by the lack of a discrete GPU.

How was it sluggish in your case (full screen from windowed was instant for me)? Can you provide an example? I didn't notice anything bad with the integrated graphics until I tried gaming. Movie watching and regular mac use was fine, and swapping to my egpu didn't make amazing improvements on the regular stuff.

 

[trifid]

How was it sluggish in your case (full screen from windowed was instant for me)? Can you provide an example? I didn't notice anything bad with the integrated graphics until I tried gaming. Movie watching and regular mac use was fine, and swapping to my egpu didn't make amazing improvements on the regular stuff.

Illustrator has an 'animated' gpu zoom feature, it's quite integral in my workflow, with an integrated gpu it felt choppy, it's usable, but not very elegant. And Chrome for some reason loves to be sluggish with resizing too, even with eGPUs but it obviously it'll do worse with integrated graphics. The bottom line is with 4k displays, they put far more pressure on the integrated graphics than the regular displays we are used to.

 

[F-Train]

An i7 mac mini still doesn't perform as smoothly on 4k displays with scaling even with more ram which means to truly enjoy responsiveness you'll still need an eGPU.

In my particular case I noticed significant sluggishness resizing windows and zooming on Illustrator documents for example.

With a limited budget I'd argue that it's far more valuable an i3 + eGPU combo for 4k owners, i3 is still a beast of a cpu, rather than betting so much on that i7 that at the end of the day in my view is severely bottlenecked by the lack of a discrete GPU.

Hi,

Are you actually running an i3 mini with an external GPU, or is this just hypothesising on your part?

I am using an i7 with an Asus ProArt 32" 4K display and I am not experiencing a lack of smoothness, including when playing around with scaling, which I've decided is for me unnecessary anyway.

As someone who has and uses an external GPU, I think that it is unlikely that anybody is going to purchase one for use with an i3 mini. The idea strikes me as highly eccentric, and you are without question the first person that I've even seen talk about the idea.

And yes, my second paragraph applies regardless of whether the external GPU is on or off.

 

[deviant]

An i7 mac mini still doesn't perform as smoothly on 4k displays with scaling even with more ram which means to truly enjoy responsiveness you'll still need an eGPU.

In my particular case I noticed significant sluggishness resizing windows and zooming on Illustrator documents for example.

With a limited budget I'd argue that it's far more valuable an i3 + eGPU combo for 4k owners, i3 is still a beast of a cpu, rather than betting so much on that i7 that at the end of the day in my view is severely bottlenecked by the lack of a discrete GPU.

that's strange, at least the interface and animations should be smooth

 

[trifid]

Hi,

I am using an i7 with an Asus ProArt 32" 4K display and I am not experiencing a lack of smoothness, including when playing around with scaling, which I've decided is for me unnecessary anyway.

As someone who has and uses an external GPU, I think that it is highly unlikely that anybody is going to purchase one for use with an i3 mini. The idea strikes me as highly eccentric, and you are without question the first person that I've even seen talk about the idea.

And yes, my first paragraph applies regardless of whether the external GPU is on or off.

See my example about with Illustrator, driving 4k displays with scaling is very stressful on the integrated GPU and responsiveness is affected.

I'd like you to try Lightroom as well without an eGPU and see how smooth that scrolls with a large library of photos. To me it was unbearable.

 

[F-Train]

See my example about with Illustrator, driving 4k displays with scaling is very stressful on the integrated GPU and responsiveness is affected.

I'd like you to try Lightroom as well without a GPU and see how smooth that scrolls with a large library of photos. To me it was unbearable.

This is the problem. There are people in this forum, especially on the issue of monitors, who make blanket statements based on personal workflows that are not specified in their posts.

I'm going to ask you again. Are you actually running an i3 mini with an external GPU, or are you just telling other people to do it?

 

[trifid]

This is the problem. There are people in this forum, especially on the issue of monitors, who make blanket statements based on personal workflows that are not specified in their posts.

Multitasking with a wide array of apps including Adobe's on 4k displays and giving my assessment on responsiveness sure it's personal, but I don't think eccentric. I don't appreciate your type of condescending attitude and would hope we can have a civil discussion.

And if you are going to choose i7 I'd image some sort of pro app usage in the mix. This is why I think it's highly important keeping in mind the GPU component.

 

[Cheapassmac]

Multitasking with a wide array of apps including Adobe's on 4k displays and giving my assessment on responsiveness sure it's personal, but I don't think eccentric. I don't appreciate your type of condescending attitude and would hope we can have a civil discussion.

And if you are going to choose i7 I'd image some sort of pro app usage in the mix. This is why I think it's highly important keeping in mind the GPU component.

I think his point is that you're recommending a set up that you haven't tested yourself (or trying to get clarification of your set up).

 

[F-Train]

Multitasking with a wide array of apps including Adobe's on 4k displays and giving my assessment on responsiveness sure it's personal, but I don't think eccentric. I don't appreciate your type of condescending attitude and would hope we can have a civil discussion.

And if you are going to choose i7 I'd image some sort of pro app usage in the mix. This is why I think it's highly important keeping in mind the GPU component.

In other words, you aren't using an i3 with an external GPU. Why won't you just say so?

As for the i7, I had an i5 and wrote many posts on this forum, and indeed started an entire thread that runs several pages, on its merits.

I'm being straightforward and to the point. The fact that someone asks basic questions in plain English that you won't answer doesn't mean that they are being condescending.

 

[trifid]

In other words, you aren't using an i3, and you aren't even using an external GPU.

As for the i7, I had an i5 and wrote many posts on this forum, and indeed started an entire thread that runs several pages, on its merits.

I'm being straightforward and to the point. The fact that someone asks basic questions in plain English that you won't answer doesn't mean that they are being condescending.

My experience is based on the i7 mac mini with 32gb ram which I did use with and without a Backmagic eGPU. I don't own the i3, but I can tell you I was very disappointed with the i7 with two 4k displays, the clear bottleneck was the GPU until I got the eGPU. That's why if I had to do this again I'd seriously consider the i3 + the eGPU and save money on the i7, and this is why I brought this up. I think it's worthwhile for those having some pro apps mix in their workflow and having 4k displays, to consider this which I felt was largely missing in the discussion so far.

 

[F-Train]

My experience is based on the i7 mac mini with 32gb ram which I did use with and without a Backmagic eGPU. I don't own the i3, but I can tell you I was very disappointed with the i7 with two 4k displays, the clear bottleneck was the GPU until I got the eGPU. That's why if I had to do this again I'd seriously consider the i3 +the eGPU and save money on the i7, and this is why I brought this up. I think it's worthwhile for those having some pro apps mix in their workflow and having 4k displays, to consider this which I felt was largely missing in the discussion so far.

Fine, meanwhile the title of this thread is "When are 6 Cores Better than 4 Cores for Home, Non-Pro Use".

Having regard to the subject of the thread, I would venture to suggest that spending US$700 on an external GPU (to take the example of the Blackmagic you tried), and pairing it with an i3 mini, is at best a controversial suggestion. I do not believe that anybody is going to actually do that. You say that you have considered doing it. Let us know when you write the cheque and actually do it.

 

[trifid]

Fine, meanwhile the title of this thread is "When are 6 Cores Better than 4 Cores for Home, Non-Pro Use".

Having regard to the subject of the thread, I would venture to suggest that spending US$700 on an external GPU (to take the example of the Blackmagic you tried), and pairing it with an i3 mini, is at best a controversial suggestion. I do not believe that anybody is going to actually do that.

Thanks for pointing out the thread title, but the last few pages all the discussion was i3 vs i5 and i7, why push the discussion towards i5/i7 then without the consideration of the GPU component? Non-pro use could include 4k displays and some Lightroom use, it could include light use of Adobe apps as well which is why I felt it's relevant.

Also, Blackmagic eGPU is $700, there are many other brands and much cheaper too. Not sure why you would want to be misleading on that metric other than to serve your argument about the pairing with i3 to be "controversial". There is nothing controversial about having a proper GPU to drive 4k scaled for the best responsiveness possible. Of course in Apple land it might be seen as a luxury but I'd bet it will become much more popular as the technology matures.

 

[F-Train]

Thanks for pointing out the thread title, but the last few pages all the discussion was i3 vs i5 and i7, why push the discussion towards i5/i7 then without the consideration of the GPU component? Non-pro use could include 4k displays and some Lightroom use, it could include light use of Adobe apps as well which is why I felt it's relevant.

Also, Blackmagic eGPU is $700, there are many other brands and much cheaper too. Not sure why you would want to be misleading on that metric other than to serve your argument about the pairing with i3 to be "controversial". There is nothing controversial about having a proper GPU to drive 4k scaled for the best responsiveness possible. Of course in Apple land it might be seen as a luxury but I'd bet it will become much more popular as the technology matures.

The Blackmagic was your example.

Hey, if you want to convince someone to purchase a 4K display and an external GPU, and match them with an i3 mini, go ahead.

I look forward to you doing this yourself and telling us all about it.

 

[trifid]

The Blackmagic was your example.

Hey, if you want to convince someone to purchase a 4K display and an external GPU, and match them with an i3 mini, go ahead.

I look forward to you doing this yourself and telling us all about it.

No, you said "I would venture to suggest that spending US$700 on an external GPU... " I never remotely suggested or hinted at that, my initial post on the topic I mention the value of pairing i3 + eGPU, never do I suggest a particular brand in that post. Later on as I describe my experience I mention the brand I'm using but I never suggested it to anyone. You are going out of your way to misrepresent what I said to serve your argument.

 

[F-Train]

No, you said "I would venture to suggest that spending US$700 on an external GPU... " I never remotely suggested or hinted at that, my initial post on the topic I mention the value of pairing i3 + eGPU, never do I suggest a particular brand in that post. Later on as I describe my experience I mention the brand I'm using but I never suggested it to anyone. You are going out of your way to misrepresent what I said to serve your argument.

If I have saved anyone purchasing a mini for "home, non-pro use" from doing something as daft as purchasing an i3 mini, a 4K monitor, an AMD 500 series or Vega GPU, and an enclosure to house and power the GPU, as their computer system, I'm content.

As I said, I look forward to you actually doing this and telling us all about it. Your configuration, and the resulting thread, will almost certainly be unique.

 

[trifid]

If I have saved anyone purchasing a mini for "home, non-pro use" from doing something as daft as purchasing an i3 mini, a 4K monitor, an AMD 500 series or Vega GPU, and an enclosure to house and power the GPU, as their computer system, I'm content.

As I said, I look forward to you actually doing that and telling us all about it. Your configuration, and the resulting thread, will almost certainly be unique.

If I have saved anyone from unnecessarily buying an i5/i7 and expecting great smoothness and responsiveness under many notable scenarios when using 4k displays, I'll be content. I have first hand experience to prove it.

I have to say this, I'm a bit disappointed you didn't correct your statement misrepresenting me that I never suggested anyone getting a $700 eGPU, you seem to value good argument with facts, I hope in the future we can continue a good, honest and civil discussion.

With regards to cpu and single-threaded performance which I think is more important than multi-threaded for non-pro home use, I'll leave everyone this, you make up your own minds:

https://browser.geekbench.com/mac-benchmarks

 

[Spectrum]

I also don't see a problem with an i3/128/8GB, external SSD for storage, install own RAM as required over time, and add an eGPU if you find you need more GPU power for 4K displays etc over time. This will still be a very competent system long into the future.

Having said that, I think the 200$ upgrade from i3 to i7 is good value and well worth considering at time of purchase. But that is still $200 that could otherwise go towards RAM or eGPU...

 

[pl1984]

I can't believe I'm actually agreeing with you on this one, and that you addressed the one point I forgot to.

How does it feel to finally be on the correct side of an argument?
[doublepost=1544369438][/doublepost]

I also don't see a problem with an i3/128/8GB, external SSD for storage, install own RAM as required over time, and add an eGPU if you find you need more GPU power for 4K displays etc over time. This will still be a very competent system long into the future.

Having said that, I think the 200$ upgrade from i3 to i7 is good value and well worth considering at time of purchase. But that is still $200 that could otherwise go towards RAM or eGPU...

The cost is $300 to upgrade from the i3 to the i7, it's $200 to upgrade from the i5 to the i7. Unless you have a specific need for the i7 it's my opinion most people would be better off applying that $300 to additional storage either in the form of the base $1099 Mini or the 256GB/512GB upgrade to the base i3. If I were considering the 256GB upgrade to the i3 I'd just spend the extra $100 and go with the base i5.