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The podcast guy basically advocated what I was preaching. Either i3 or i7 for the value aspect unless the i5 was on sale. There's no point for a regular user to spend extra for the larger Apple SSD over just getting an external SSD. A user won't even perceive the difference in speed 99% of the time.

Faster consecutive read/write just isn't going to do much for most people (and regular SATA rates of 600mb/s is fast enough). It's the IOPS (input output per second) rating and low latency that gives the "snappiness" that a regular HD can't deliver.

Don't believe the mb/sec hype. The IOPS rating and latency of larger Apple SSDs are basically the same as other SSDs (relatively, might be ever so slightly higher, but not to the point of being appreciable).

I would advocate paying Apple the $200 for the 16GB RAM config if you aren't tech savy or don't want to deal with the hassle. Apple isn't charging too much of a premium for the installation (about $50, and selling the OEM RAM isn't advisable if you ever want it serviced by Apple). Even a casual user will benefit from upgrading from 8 to 16 (but 8 will work well enough, albeit a small performance penalty under certain circumstances). For home, non pro use, you don't need to consider anything beyond 16GB.

You know for a long time I was criticizing Apple for being stuck with 5400rpm drives for so long even on iMacs, heck on mac minis they were still selling 5400rpm on stock configs until this year, I thought that was a travesty because there is truly a night and day difference between those an SSDs.

But Apple now went to the other extreme of the spectrum, they are now forcing people to pay a fortune for SSDs that are extremely fast on paper, but that in reality they are a waste of money for most people because of the diminishing returns, it's not as noticeable or useful for most people.

Like you said regular sata 600mb/s SSDs are already fast enough. They are like 6-10 times faster than those 5400rpm drives, that's PLENTY fast for the vast majority of users, even a large chunk of pro users.
 
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You know for a long time I was criticizing Apple for being stuck with 5400rpm drives for so long even on iMacs, heck on mac minis they were still selling 5400rpm on stock configs until this year, I thought that was a travesty because there is truly a night and day difference between those an SSDs.

But Apple now went to the other extreme of the spectrum, they are now forcing people to pay a fortune for SSDs that are extremely fast on paper, but that in reality they are a waste of money for most people because of the diminishing returns, it's not as noticeable or useful for most people.

Like you said regular sata 600mb/s SSDs are already fast enough. They are like 6-10 times faster than those 5400rpm drives, that's PLENTY fast for the vast majority of users, even a large chunk of pro users.

It might be 6-10 times faster data transfer speeds, but the responsiveness you feel is because of latency. A regular 5400rpm hard drive has an average response time of 5.6 milliseconds (or 5600 microseconds). On a physical spinning platter, it's going to vary by a couple milliseconds, and an extra 10 milliseconds if it was waking from sleep.

Even an external SATA SSD with USB 3.0 adaptor has a response time 175 microseconds. So on most OS related but not yet loaded in RAM tasks, it's going to be more like 30-100x faster. And yes, it was dumb of Apple to wait until 2018 to be 100% SSD. SJ would have murdered TC for his crimes.
 
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I had a 2015 21.5” retina iMac for the past almost 3 years (8GB/512GB) - I looked at Geekbench to compare it’s single and multi core scores with the different mini models and it seems that the base i3 would be around the same as that 2015 iMac. Would just feel weird getting a brand new computer that really isn’t any faster or better than what I had been using previously.
Which begs the question: Why are you replacing the iMac? If the performance of the base i3 Mini is sufficient for you and that performance is similar to the iMac what is the benefit to replacing the iMac? Are you constrained by the iMacs 8GB of RAM? Something else?
 
The iMac is already gone - sold it a couple of months ago I believe. I wanted to switch back to a laptop for mobile use and then hooked up to my 4K display for stationary use, but didn't like the whole plugging/unplugging of wires each time, and was also occasionally having issues when in clamshell mode. And, in the meantime, the updated minis were announced/released, so I decided to sell the laptop and get a mini and pick up a used iPad for mobile needs.

But, yes, the RAM in the iMac seemed a bit limiting (beachballs). The laptop I got in the interim was a 2015 13" Macbook Pro retina with 16GB RAM and a 128GB SSD. I bought an OEM Apple 512GB SSD off eBay and put that in the Macbook Pro. Ended up selling it for essentially the same price I bought it for including the separate 512GB SSD, so came out even in the end in terms of that.
 
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Hi all, new here and looking to get a Mac mini. I was fairly set on getting the i5/8gb ram/256 ssd as it’s on sale for $999, but then heard the podcast.

The i3/8gb/128 is currently as low as $724. I7/8/128 is $1099. Based on these prices, I’m curious what all of you more experienced folks would recommend. Save the money and go with the i3? Double the ssd with the i5 over the i7 and save $100 (or $275 more than the i3); or spend a little more for the i7. With each configuration I envision getting an external drive...and my use is fairly routine, mostly web browsing and word processing; although I can see myself doing some basic video and photo editing in the future. Any input appreciated, thanks
 
Struggling through this decision too. My uses and needs seem similar to yours. Here's how I'm looking at it:

1. Base i3 SSD is too small. I know many say just run the mini off a fast external SSD (which I already own, so that wouldn't be an added cost, for me at least) or at least move the User folder to the external, but I don't think I want to jump through the hoops of doing that. I also have my two sons' user folders to contend with since they will be using the Mac from time to time, so I've pretty much ruled out the base i3. And, since I've ruled that out, any consideration of an i7/8/128 doesn't apply (again, in my situation).

2. So, at the bare minimum, upgrade the i3 SSD to 256GB at the time of purchase, but then that brings the price up to $999, which is $100 less than the base i5 that already has the 256GB SSD (aside - I'm talking MSRP here - I know there are various deals going on right now on the base i3 and base i5 models as well as deals on BTO models from places like B&H, etc., but trying to take those deals into account just complicates the picture more than it already is).

3. So, whether I would benefit and/or need the i5 over the i3 is a moot point, since I can't configure an i3 were it would make sense to get it over the i5.

4. Doesn't make any sense, for me, to even consider an i7 because I'm sure I don't need the hyperthreading for my uses/needs. Sure, an i7 would have better resale value and could last a bit longer before feeling like it is time for another upgrade, but those are not really important enough reasons, for me, to spend the extra money on an i7.

So, the conclusion I came to was base i5 (with 8GB RAM) or i5 with a $200 RAM upgrade from Apple (i5/16/256). I know I can do the RAM upgrade myself sometime in the future, but is it worth saving maybe $50 over Apple's price for the stress of having to do it myself with the potential of me breaking something in the process (a very real possibility for me!). I don't envision ever having a need for 32GB RAM. If I did, then I would definitely just buy the base i5 and do the RAM upgrade myself in the future since Apple's RAM pricing for anything other than the 16GB upgrade is way out of line.

My previous Macs had 512GB SSDs, so my backup won't fit on the 256GB SSD I'll be getting with whatever i5 I decide to get. But, I've already figured that I'll keep the OS, apps and User folders on the 256GB (all of that wouldn't fit on the 128GB of the i3) and move all my media onto an external SSD (again, which I already own) and either point my iTunes library to the external or install Plex server on the mini and have that point to the external.

So, in my case, the question is immediate gratification of buying in the store today or configuring a BTO with 16GB RAM and waiting a week or more for it.

As it turns out, the podcast that I linked to above was, no doubt, informational and enlightening but, in the end, confused me a bit more before I just sat down and worked out the details, pros/cons, costs, etc before finally coming to the decision of going with an i5.

By the way, I believe the base model configurations and pricing to be quite deliberate on Apple's part and, once again, genius marketing. I believe Apple knew that many people would think the SSD in the i3 too small and then really only have the option of bumping up $300 to the base i5 after realizing that upgrading the i3's SSD to match the base i5 would put one only $100 within reach of the base i5. So for every buyer who went through this same thought process and decided to go for the base i5, Apple got an extra $100 in their pockets.

HTH
 
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Thank you for detailing your thought process, very helpful. I’m back to leaning toward the i5 with 8gb just due to the sale, not sure the extra $300 for the 16gb ram version is something I can stomach, although that is what i originally envisioned getting (before the sale). Ideally they would do a similar discount on the 16gb version as well, but that seems unlikely. Thank you so much for your input.


Struggling through this decision too. My uses and needs seem similar to yours. Here's how I'm looking at it:

1. Base i3 SSD is too small. I know many say just run the mini off a fast external SSD (which I already own, so that wouldn't be an added cost, for me at least) or at least move the User folder to the external, but I don't think I want to jump through the hoops of doing that. I also have my two sons' user folders to contend with since they will be using the Mac from time to time, so I've pretty much ruled out the base i3. And, since I've ruled that out, any consideration of an i7/8/128 doesn't apply (again, in my situation).

2. So, at the bare minimum, upgrade the i3 SSD to 256GB at the time of purchase, but then that brings the price up to $999, which is $100 less than the base i5 that already has the 256GB SSD (aside - I'm talking MSRP here - I know there are various deals going on right now on the base i3 and base i5 models as well as deals on BTO models from places like B&H, etc., but trying to take those deals into account just complicates the picture more than it already is).

3. So, whether I would benefit and/or need the i5 over the i3 is a moot point, since I can't configure an i3 were it would make sense to get it over the i5.

4. Doesn't make any sense, for me, to even consider an i7 because I'm sure I don't need the hyperthreading for my uses/needs. Sure, an i7 would have better resale value and could last a bit longer before feeling like it is time for another upgrade, but those are not really important enough reasons, for me, to spend the extra money on an i7.

So, the conclusion I came to was base i5 (with 8GB RAM) or i5 with a $200 RAM upgrade from Apple (i5/16/256). I know I can do the RAM upgrade myself sometime in the future, but is it worth saving maybe $50 over Apple's price for the stress of having to do it myself with the potential of me breaking something in the process (a very real possibility for me!). I don't envision ever having a need for 32GB RAM. If I did, then I would definitely just buy the base i5 and do the RAM upgrade myself in the future since Apple's RAM pricing for anything other than the 16GB upgrade is way out of line.

My previous Macs had 512GB SSDs, so my backup won't fit on the 256GB SSD I'll be getting with whatever i5 I decide to get. But, I've already figured that I'll keep the OS, apps and User folders on the 256GB (all of that wouldn't fit on the 128GB of the i3) and move all my media onto an external SSD (again, which I already own) and either point my iTunes library to the external or install Plex server on the mini and have that point to the external.

So, in my case, the question is immediate gratification of buying in the store today or configuring a BTO with 16GB RAM and waiting a week or more for it.

As it turns out, the podcast that I linked to above was, no doubt, informational and enlightening but, in the end, confused me a bit more before I just sat down and worked out the details, pros/cons, costs, etc before finally coming to the decision of going with an i5.

By the way, I believe the base model configurations and pricing to be quite deliberate on Apple's part and, once again, genius marketing. I believe Apple knew that many people would think the SSD in the i3 too small and then really only have the option of bumping up $300 to the base i5 after realizing that upgrading the i3's SSD to match the base i5 would put one only $100 within reach of the base i5. So for every buyer who went through this same thought process and decided to go for the base i5, Apple got an extra $100 in their pockets.

HTH
 
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Thank you for detailing your thought process, very helpful. I’m back to leaning toward the i5 with 8gb just due to the sale, not sure the extra $300 for the 16gb ram version is something I can stomach, although that is what i originally envisioned getting (before the sale). Ideally they would do a similar discount on the 16gb version as well, but that seems unlikely. Thank you so much for your input.
Yeah, like I mentioned, the deals/sales that are going on currently really makes the decision even harder in my opinion. I hadn't even thought how the base i5 vs. 16GB i5 is a $300 difference! Really has me thinking again...
 
I see there are two options for you Pinkoos:

i3: Obviously, you will save money but you will have to wait a bit longer to complete for the video transcoding*.

i5/i7 expensive but only different between i5 and i7 is 10% more performance for the i7, however, the video transcoding* will be faster than i3.


*: the duration for the video transcoding that will depend on the file size, if the file size smaller it will be done quicker or if the file size is massive this will take times.
 
Indeed...if you can manage the DIY, 16GB can be had for $169+tax.
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/2666DDR4S16P/

OWC will even give you a $30 rebate for the 2x4GB.
https://eshop.macsales.com/tech_center/support/rebates/memory.cfm
I got my Crucial 8GB x 2 modules from Amazon for $130.

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-16GB...=1-1&keywords=crucial+memory+2666+sodimm&th=1
(select the 8GB sodium's for the correct price)

It was worth the $70 savings to me over what Apple charges. Actually, $100 when you factor in that I could probably sell the old 4GB x 2 chips for $30 - $40.
 
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Hi all, new here and looking to get a Mac mini. I was fairly set on getting the i5/8gb ram/256 ssd as it’s on sale for $999, but then heard the podcast.

The i3/8gb/128 is currently as low as $724. I7/8/128 is $1099. Based on these prices, I’m curious what all of you more experienced folks would recommend. Save the money and go with the i3? Double the ssd with the i5 over the i7 and save $100 (or $275 more than the i3); or spend a little more for the i7

If we strip away variables to a simple linear decision, say 3.5ghz, 4.0, and 4.5, we would break ourselves down according to need. I’m a high value pro and need to be waiting never, 4.5. I’m a low budget new guy looking to save, 3.5.

There isn’t usually a case for middle because it’s not best at either. But adding cores into the discussion, i5 is the cheapest hex. So if you’re looking to save but even maybe benefit from 2 spare cores, i5 starts to make sense. Then throw in the double ssd (better for speed even if using external) and the 999 sale and things get easier.

So we are left with three good choices

i7 for max performance
i3 for least dollars
i5 (sale) for perf/dollar value

So i5 makes sense if it’s on sale AND you don’t really need huge power but may want extra cores down the line or just want huge years out of it.
 
If we strip away variables to a simple linear decision, say 3.5ghz, 4.0, and 4.5, we would break ourselves down according to need. I’m a high value pro and need to be waiting never, 4.5. I’m a low budget new guy looking to save, 3.5.

There isn’t usually a case for middle because it’s not best at either. But adding cores into the discussion, i5 is the cheapest hex. So if you’re looking to save but even maybe benefit from 2 spare cores, i5 starts to make sense. Then throw in the double ssd (better for speed even if using external) and the 999 sale and things get easier.

So we are left with three good choices

i7 for max performance
i3 for least dollars
i5 (sale) for perf/dollar value

So i5 makes sense if it’s on sale AND you don’t really need huge power but may want extra cores down the line or just want huge years out of it.
I think the i5 makes sense for a lot of people, even at its regular price. I think the 128GB in the base i3 is too little and the cost to double it is $200. For an extra $100 you get 50% more cores.
 
I was going for an i7/128gb with an external Samsung T5 256gb but i ordered an i5/256gb instead. It arrived this week and it is a monster. People should remember that there are 2 categories of people on this forum: newbies and pro’s.

The pro’s will likely all need an i7 for their needs and for the newbies an i3 will be more than enough.
But the i3 isn’t that future proof and has the smallest and slowest ssd in it. So go for the i5 to have a ready & go setup without having to think about what external ssd you need, how to format it and how you need to move your home folder which you’ll need to do when opting for the i3.
 
I was going for an i7/128gb with an external Samsung T5 256gb but i ordered an i5/256gb instead. It arrived this week and it is a monster. People should remember that there are 2 categories of people on this forum: newbies and pro’s.

The pro’s will likely all need an i7 for their needs and for the newbies an i3 will be more than enough.
But the i3 isn’t that future proof and has the smallest and slowest ssd in it. So go for the i5 to have a ready & go setup without having to think about what external ssd you need, how to format it and how you need to move your home folder which you’ll need to do when opting for the i3.
Did you get 8 or more RAM?
 
I ordered the base 8GB ram but will upgrade to the 16GB next year.
On a side note i’m not a pro user

You don't need to be a pro user to benefit from the extra RAM. Check out activity monitor and see in the memory tab how your memory pressure is during max usage (with all your daily apps open and as many browser tabs you typically keep up). If yellow/red, have a noticeable amount of swap used, or very small amount of cached files, then it will certainly help.

From my experience, almost everyone will get a boost from 16GB RAM over 8GB. However, very few people would benefit from the 16 to 32GB bump (and the people who actually need the 32GB, would actually benefit more with 64GB).
 
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You don't need to be a pro user to benefit from the extra RAM. Check out activity monitor and see in the memory tab how your memory pressure is during max usage (with all your daily apps open and as many browser tabs you typically keep up). If yellow/red, have a noticeable amount of swap used, or very small amount of cached files, then it will certainly help.

From my experience, almost everyone will get a boost from 16GB RAM over 8GB. However, very few people would benefit from the 16 to 32GB bump (and the people who actually need the 32GB, would actually benefit more with 64GB).
I'm mostly at 66% according to my Dr Cleaner app
 
I find the activity monitor RAM pane incredibly hard to interpret.
With 8GB of physical RMA I can see applications eating up 3-5 GB, or more, some swaps happen, some beach balls, yet memory 'pressure' reports still in the green. I've never seen it go higher.
 
I find the activity monitor RAM pane incredibly hard to interpret.
With 8GB of physical RMA I can see applications eating up 3-5 GB, or more, some swaps happen, some beach balls, yet memory 'pressure' reports still in the green. I've never seen it go higher.

Pressure occurs when you are doing a lot at the moment. I've seen it plenty go into the yellow/red by encoding video while having a lot of browser tabs open (when I had 4 or 8gb RAM, it's been green even under stress with 16gb).

I feel the activity monitor is informative and up to you to process the information it gives you. Just focusing on how much swapping is occurring is something simple to follow. If you see this in the gigabytes after a couple of days for example, you really need more RAM. For reference, I have had about 60 megabytes swapped after 1 month of use (half the time, I was transcoding something in the background while using my computer).
 
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I was getting GBs of swaps. But memory pressure still reports as green.

I also see the swap go down from say 2.3GB to 1.7GB. What on earth does that mean?

I'm pretty sure in earlier versions of OSX the swap size was a cumulative tally.
 
I was getting GBs of swaps. But memory pressure still reports as green.

I also see the swap go down from say 2.3GB to 1.7GB. What on earth does that mean?

I'm pretty sure in earlier versions of OSX the swap size was a cumulative tally.

It should be a cumulative tally last I checked. Someone else feel free to chime in. Maybe you restarted since you last checked?

Pressure is only at the moment. It could be yellow under stress (when the swapping occurs), but as soon as you stop doing stuff, it goes back down to green. If you're having swaps, then at certain times it might be yellow while you're not looking.
 
Here: These screen-grabs were taken in sequential order whilst opening a series of complex PDFs. RAM always stays green, but swaps happen, and then when I finally close the PDFs, the Swap Used goes down...
1.Starting:
upload_2018-12-16_22-57-11.png


2.
upload_2018-12-16_22-57-20.png


3.
upload_2018-12-16_22-57-29.png


4.
upload_2018-12-16_22-57-39.png


5.Final:
upload_2018-12-16_22-57-53.png
 
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