When will Intel mac users be "forced" to upgrade to silicon Macs?

[Zaydax333]

I think the Intel Macs that have the T2 chip will survive a lot longer than people think. Until Apple deems the T2 not secure enough. They will just get lesser and lesser access to new features that use the neural engine more.

You can see the list here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862

Mac OS Sonoma supported devices: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/05/macos-sonoma-compatible-macs/

At a quick glance looks like these lists match up 1:1 now?

 

[MauiPa]

you are correct your choice of title is poor. No one will be "forced" to do anything, you simply cannot be "forced". There will come a time when older electronics will not be worth it to continue using because they lack function and have limited repairability. That is true of any product.

That being said, Apple Silicon is awesome, I upgraded my 2017 MBP to a 2020 M1 MBP, couldn't be happier and am enviously eyeing the 15 MBA, Im wondering if the larger size might help with the passive cooling. But I also read the M3 MBA is being developed, that might be my upgrade path.

Finally, it is pretty amazing at how much silicon has changed in general since Apple Silicon was released. Intel, AMD and other chipmakers have also made huge strides. So your Intel Mac (and older WIntel PCs) are being overwhelmed by newer technology.

 

[MauiPa]

When will Intel mac users be "forced" to upgrade to silicon Macs?

I'm enjoying my pre-owned 15 inch MacBook Pro 2015 installing several macOS versions, Yosemite, El Capitan, Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave, Catalina, Big Sur, and Monterey... And discovering the differences with each release... I am late to owning a mac and late to having a first hand experience...

I don't think I will immediately switch to Apple Silicon since I just bought this one last April... Right now, Yosemite is the installed version... I have Windows 7 on my other computer... I'm not in a hurry and I'm still familiarizing myself with macOS being a long time Windows user...

The only time I would probably switch is once Monterey is no longer supported by third party apps like browsers and others which may be a few years in the future and 3 years and 2 generations of Apple Silicon for me is still early, meaning to me it feels like the early intel core i3/i5/i7 days and once the 6th/7th generation of Apple Silicon is released, that would be it for me...

feels like the early core i3/i5/i7 days? I am not seeing that. I switched to Apple Silicon with the 2020 M1 MBP, 4 times faster than my 2017 Intel MBP, and it lasts a really long time, unlike my Intel Mac, and runs cool. I can get the fans to run when running Handbrake encodes, but you would expect that from a program that maxes out all the cores.

Finally, I love the Touch Bar. Don't understand those who get so emotional in their hatred of it because you can always set it to just mimic the F key functionality (no idea why anyone likes f keys, but there you go, don't like it, turn it off.

 

[GMShadow]

I think the Intel Macs that have the T2 chip will survive a lot longer than people think. Until Apple deems the T2 not secure enough. They will just get lesser and lesser access to new features that use the neural engine more.

You can see the list here: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208862

Mac OS Sonoma supported devices: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/06/05/macos-sonoma-compatible-macs/

At a quick glance looks like these lists match up 1:1 now?

Not quite, the 2019 iMacs don't have a T2. Just the 2020 5K.

 

[padams35]

XCode users are "Forced" to use the newest version of MacOS. They have 2-3 more years depending on if MacOS_2024 or MacOS_2025 is the last Intel supported release.

Typical users need security updates, the latest version of Microsoft/Adobe Cloud, TurboTax updates, etc. That usually requires one of the three newest versions, "forcing" an upgrade in 4-5 more years... but most will probably voluntarily upgrade earlier for new features or performance.

Legacy software users just need a secure working web browser. They can run an OS 6-7 years old without difficulty. Longer if they make retro computing a hobby. It could be another 7+ years before they feel pressured, and with community support and a bit of effort could resist updating until their hardware physically fails.

 

[Falhófnir]

Apple will likely proclaim the >50% point by the next WWDC. Apple expects people to replace every 4 years so 2024 would be nearing that milestone.

So long as you still receive Security Updates I see little reason to replace unless your use case necessitates it or the upgrade improves your circumstances.

Many would balk at that but in truth have their been any meaningfully jaw dropping features that you "must have" in the past dozen years? All of em are "nice to have".

The real concern are the Security Updates.

Indeed, I've been happy to continue sitting on my mid-2015 MBP as long as Monterey is supported, waiting for the new MBA. I do feel it's starting to show it's age in terms of system fluidity, firing up the fans for 'menial' tasks (google maps or YouTube videos!) and battery endurance, but it's held in there to get to this point where it has an ideal successor!

 

[Longplays]

Legacy software users just need a secure working web browser. They can run an OS 6-7 years old without difficulty. Longer if they make retro computing a hobby. It could be another 7+ years before they feel pressured, and with community support and a bit of effort could resist updating until their hardware physically fails.

That's under the assumption they want to do that.

That's more of a niche than wanting a i9 & 4090 in a 2023 Mac Pro.

OS 6-7 are from Macs marketed >3 decades ago.

Over 2 years ago the dev of the last modern PowerPC browser called it quits in supporting "a couple thousand" worldwide users.

That's 1 out of 4 million persons on Earth.

 

[fwmireault]

The 2019 Mac Pro is still less than 4 years old, and at the price of that machine, I cannot imagine Apple dropping support for these Macs anytime soon. But I think other Intel machines will rapidly be unsupported. I also think Apple will provide security updates for a few extra years for Intel machines despite not running the latest software.

And Apple is not forcing anything, a Mac will perform very well for a few more years with legacy software.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Many would balk at that but in truth have their been any meaningfully jaw dropping features that you "must have" in the past dozen years? All of em are "nice to have".

The real concern are the Security Updates.

Yes, but don't forget that Apple has the aggravating habit of making select core functionality- such as the iWork apps- require upgrades to be able to open files created on newer versions of those apps. iWork updates often require macOS updates. So if macOS is not updated, iWork can't be updated. Work on an iWork file in a newer version and the "old" computer will be unable to open it. Have someone else collaborate and/or send you an iWork file edited in a newer version and the "old" computer is locked out.

So it doesn't take "jaw dropping" features- just practical need. If you want to keep using proprietary Apple software, you generally need to stay pretty up-to-date on hardware able to run a fairly new version of macOS. Else, be careful about what you use to edit proprietary files and no collaboration unless you know the collaborator is also using an older version of iWork, FCPX, etc. In a group collaboration scenario, it takes only one new Mac/iDevice open and then save to lock up to everyone else out unless they are equally up to date.

 

[frou]

The 2019 Mac Pro is still less than 4 years old, and at the price of that machine, I cannot imagine Apple dropping support for these Macs anytime soon.

It also probably sold in very low volume, so there's almost a "If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?" aspect to that.

 

[Longplays]

Fast forward to 2023, and the biggest driver for updating is not hardware antiquity as such, but enforced obsolescence where new OS's deliberately are not rolled out to machines beyond a certain age, which starts a circa 48-month death-clock ticking for those machines, after which they will not receive security updates for their obsolete OS, and eventually, contemporary apps won't run on them.

Slowdown on replacement has to do with the iPhone & Android. People who used to buy desktops then laptops have found higher utility and accessibility for their Internet and other computer needs covered by a smartphone. This is why their less for a need to replace unless they need a larger than smartphone screen, keyboard and mouse.

I did a study on Windows EOL timeframe and since 2007 Windows Vista it has been 122 months long.

Version	Release Date	End Support Date	Months
Windows 11	10/5/2021	12/5/2031	122
Windows 10	7/29/2015	10/14/2025	122
Windows 8	10/26/2012	1/10/2023	122
Windows 7	10/22/2009	1/14/2020	122
Windows Vista	1/30/2007	4/11/2017	122
Windows XP	8/24/2001	4/8/2014	151
Windows 2000	2/17/2000	7/13/2010	124
Windows 98	6/25/1998	7/11/2006	96
WIndows 95	8/24/1995	12/31/2001	76

To me a decade's long enough for any support. For preventative maintenance and wear and tear reasons if circumstances permit just replace.

Sell your hardware on eBay, garage sale, collector or the recycler.

Case in point, part of me conscientiously objected to having to update my trusty decked-out 2011 iMac last year. It was as fast as I ever needed, especially with an SSD inside replacing its 1TB HDD (an upgrade from 2017). But it was brickwalled to High Sierra, which became more and more of an issue, because certain apps I wanted to use (not least Photoshop) would not run on it. Also security updates for High Sierra ended in Autumn 2020 which meant I was technically running the machine at risk unless I disconnected it from the world.

On MR many would point out you can OLCP it for say 2023 macOS Soloma. But doing so detracts from the whole point of owning any Mac. Doing an OLCP is a very PC thing to do.

 

[Longplays]

The 2019 Mac Pro is still less than 4 years old, and at the price of that machine, I cannot imagine Apple dropping support for these Macs anytime soon. But I think other Intel machines will rapidly be unsupported. I also think Apple will provide security updates for a few extra years for Intel machines despite not running the latest software.

And Apple is not forcing anything, a Mac will perform very well for a few more years with legacy software.

Based on 2023 macOS Sonoma the 2019 Mac Pro will likely receive its final Security Update as early as 2027.

The last Intel iMac, 2020 iMac 27", will likely end as early as 2028.

By then 2021 Win11 would have 7 years of patches unless there is a compelling reason to use Win12.

 

[Longplays]

Yes, but don't forget that Apple has the aggravating habit of making select core functionality- such as the iWork apps- require upgrades to be able to open files created on newer versions of those apps. iWork updates often require macOS updates. So if macOS is not updated, iWork can't be updated. Work on an iWork file in a newer version and the "old" computer will be unable to open it. Have someone else collaborate and/or send you an iWork file edited in a newer version and the "old" computer is locked out.

So it doesn't take "jaw dropping" features- just practical need. If you want to keep using proprietary Apple software, you generally need to stay pretty up-to-date on hardware able to run a fairly new version of macOS. Else, be careful about what you use to edit proprietary files and no collaboration unless you know the collaborator is also using an older version of iWork, FCPX, etc. In a group collaboration scenario, it takes only one new Mac/iDevice open and then save to lock up to everyone else out unless they are equally up to date.

Apple's not alone in that.

Microsoft did something similar by defaulting *.xlsx rather than the older *.xls necessitating an upgrade.

The end user do not have the habit to correct that change in defaults.

I understand why companies like Apple & Microsoft did this as hiring $100k-200k software devs is a very expensive endeavor. You need to keep them fed.

Although many hate it we are thankful to SaaS as it helps with the cash flow not being forced to pay lump sum software fees.

If we were cut off from the Internet and had full control over out computers we would never replace unless it was beyond repair.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Ahhhh yes, but the difference between Microsoft doing it too is Microsoft also offered a bridge app to convert .xlsx to .xls. I can fire up some ancient PC and- via bridge- open & edit brand new(ly created) Office files. With Apple, it's "buy new hardware" as only remedy.

 

[Longplays]

Ahhhh yes, but the difference between Microsoft doing it too is Microsoft also offered a bridge app to convert .xlsx to .xls. I can fire up some ancient PC and- via bridge- open & edit brand new(ly created) Office files. With Apple, it's "buy new hardware" as only remedy.

That assumes you are cognitive enough to look for a "bridge app".

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

At least they offer a way... that doesn't require a fresh exchange of funds.

 

[Longplays]

At least they offer a way... that doesn't require a fresh exchange of funds.

You are correct but it was not "pushed" via active promotion. You had to "pull" it by looking for a solution.

Most consumers will just think they'd need an upgrade.

 

[msackey]

It wouldn't be surprising if Sonoma is the final macOS release that supports Intel, given the dwindling pool of Intel Macs now down to just 3 years. ...

It's kinda crazy thinking back how I've transitioned from 680x0 processors to the PowerPC, then to Intel, and eventually to Apple Silicon. I think the first Mac I used was on System 6.0.3.

[...]

Finally, I love the Touch Bar. Don't understand those who get so emotional in their hatred of it because you can always set it to just mimic the F key functionality (no idea why anyone likes f keys, but there you go, don't like it, turn it off.

I love the Touch Bar too, but I can see why some really hate it. My husband is a musician and uses Sibelius, a music scoring software and he uses F keys, by touch, all the time. He says it'll be a hindrance to him if he has to use a Touch Bar because he'll have to look at the keyboard each time he needs to use the function keys which apparently is a lot for music engraving.

 

[padams35]

That's under the assumption they want to do that.

That's more of a niche than wanting a i9 & 4090 in a 2023 Mac Pro.

OS 6-7 are from Macs marketed >3 decades ago.

Over 2 years ago the dev of the last modern PowerPC browser called it quits in supporting "a couple thousand" worldwide users.

That's 1 out of 4 million persons on Earth.

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about classic Mac OS System 6 or System 7. I'm talking about versions of macOS that are six or seven years old. You know, macOS Sierra or High Sierra. Stuff that still runs the newest version of FireFox. Maybe even OSX El Capitan if you like Opera.

Edit: clarified "Mac OS"/"OSX"/"macOS" branding to add clarity for the pedantic.

 

[Longplays]

You misunderstand. I'm not talking about classic MacOS 6 or MacOS 7, I'm talking about versions of Mac Os that are six or seven years old. You know, Mac OSX Sierra or High Sierra. Stuff that still runs the newest version of FireFox.

Very few call it that way.

It would be normally called OS X 10.6 & OS X 10.7

While macOS Sierra is version 10.12 and macOS High Sierra is version 10.13

 

[Wokis]

Very few call it that way.

It would be normally called OS X 10.6 & OS X 10.7

While macOS Sierra is version 10.12 and macOS High Sierra is version 10.13

Nobody mentioned System 6/7 or 10.6/10.7 though

Quote was..
"They can run an OS 6-7 years old without difficulty."

it didn't say
"They can run OS 6-7.."

I suppose the crystal-clear way of saying this would be
"They can run an OS that is 6-7 years old without difficulty".

 

[Longplays]

Nobody mentioned System 6/7 or 10.6/10.7 though

Quote was..
"They can run an OS 6-7 years old without difficulty."

it didn't say
"They can run OS 6-7.."

I suppose the crystal-clear way of saying this would be
"They can run an OS that is 6-7 years old without difficulty".

macOS Sierra is 6yo

macOS High Sierra is 5yo

 

[BarredOwl]

It's a sad realization, but I won't be buying any more Macs.

All my personal machines, and most of my work machines, are Macs but my next workstation will likely be from Lenovo.

The state of the Mac Pro, the transition to Apple silicon, and the current quality of Apple's software make it so.

 

[Wokis]

macOS Sierra is 6yo

macOS High Sierra is 5yo

Wholly irrelevant to my point

 

[Siliconguy]

When are you forced to upgrade? It depends on what is forcing you. Take my 2014 Mini. It was sold until fall of 2018. It was supported up to Monterey, which came out in 2021, so that is only three years, but there are two more years of security updates for it, which covers this year and next year, 2024.

That ends OS support, but FireFox will support the OS for some time longer, Sierra is still supported. So what other software do you need to run? That will likely be the issue. Libreoffice requires Mohave, although the next version back still works on older versions of the OS.

So you can keep the machine running usefully for some time, just dump Safari once the security updates end.

That 2014 mini is in the stereo cabinet. That will be replaced once Apple's software won't let me watch the videos anymore. I had a 2006 mini running Snow Leopard in there until 2019 before iTunes and Pandora became totally non-functional. The 2009 mini is in the same place now, Firefox stopped supporting El Capitan. But it does run Mint Xfce rather well, and the current version of Firefox does still work there.