When will the new Mac Pro be next updated?

[AidenShaw]

I know my chit partner. I live my life so I don't have to complain on a message board about a product I don't own.

Let me explain something to you. It just got RELEASED. Forget power users, forget technology, do you understand that from an economic standpoint? Do you known anything about product life cycles? It just got released!

Your logic is busted. Imagine all those power users who did buy the nMP then. Think how happy they'll be if Apple does a radical power increase in the same year they introduced it.

How long has Thunderbolt been around? Why so long?- Economics!

Wonderful typo with "chit" - look the word up.

The MP6,1 was announced more than a year ago, and has been shipping for more than half a year.

I already have the specs for (and quote requests in for) Haswell-EP systems from Dell and HP (I buy Dell workstations and HP servers - about $1M per year). The September quarter will start shortly, and I'm holding off non-urgent server/workstation purchases for the December quarter's budget - when Haswell EP will be shipping.

As an Intel partner, we already have access to Haswell-EP prototype systems that we're testing our software on. As an earlier poster said, it's 100% certain that Haswell-EP tubes are running in Cupertino's labs. AVX-2 is huge for some applications.

It will be dirt cheap for Apple to redo the MP internals for the E5-x6xx-v3 CPUs - your claims about product life cycles seem to be based on the economics of rust belt industries. If your products aren't on the latest available tech, you lose far more profit by delaying and milking the old production lines than you'd lose by jumping to new tech along with your competitors.

Apple has a big credibility problem with many pros - and moving to Haswell-EP as soon as possible would be a great way to address that problem. When Dell/HP/Boxx/SuperMicro/Lenovo are shipping Haswell-EP systems, Apple needs to be there too.

 

[MacProCard]

Wonderful typo with "chit" - look the word up.

The MP6,1 was announced more than a year ago, and has been shipping for more than half a year.

I already have the specs for (and quote requests in for) Haswell-EP systems from Dell and HP (I buy Dell workstations and HP servers - about $1M per year). The September quarter will start shortly, and I'm holding off non-urgent server/workstation purchases for the December quarter's budget - when Haswell EP will be shipping.

As an Intel partner, we already have access to Haswell-EP prototype systems that we're testing our software on. As an earlier poster said, it's 100% certain that Haswell-EP tubes are running in Cupertino's labs. AVX-2 is huge for some applications.

It will be dirt cheap for Apple to redo the MP internals for the E5-x6xx-v3 CPUs - your claims about product life cycles seem to be based on the economics of rust belt industries. If your products aren't on the latest available tech, you lose far more profit by delaying and milking the old production lines than you'd lose by jumping to new tech along with your competitors.

Apple has a big credibility problem with many pros - and moving to Haswell-EP as soon as possible would be a great way to address that problem. When Dell/HP/Boxx/SuperMicro/Lenovo are shipping Haswell-EP systems, Apple needs to be there too.

Look, my point is simple. Apple mass produces products. So they, like all mass producers have to do things a certain way. Now, I know you'd love to rewrite business to prove a point in a message board for a product you don't own...but it doesn't work like that. Dream away all you want about the next revision, but the current version is awesome.

 

[Vanilla Face]

Haswell Xeons have been shipping since Q2 2013....

Those are haswell-EP, Haswell-E doesn't ship until september.

 

[AidenShaw]

Look, my point is simple. Apple mass produces products. So they, like all mass producers have to do things a certain way. Now, I know you'd love to rewrite business to prove a point in a message board for a product you don't own...but it doesn't work like that. Dream away all you want about the next revision, but the current version is awesome.

I didn't realize that Dell, HP, Lenovo and Boxx don't mass produce products.

I guess that $14B/qtr makes Dell a "mom and pop shop".

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Those are haswell-EP, Haswell-E doesn't ship until september.

You've reversed it - but the point is that many people are simply saying "Haswell", and making incorrect statements as a result.

"Haswell Xeons" have been shipping for a long time (I only have 12 of them). "Haswell-EP Xeons" suitable for the MP7,1 are coming soon.

 

[Vanilla Face]

"Haswell-EP Xeons" suitable for the MP7,1 are coming soon.

I know it. I completely agree with what you've been saying recently in this thread as well. I honestly can't tell if that other guy is trolling or not.

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Look, my point is simple. Apple mass produces products. So they, like all mass producers have to do things a certain way. Now, I know you'd love to rewrite business to prove a point in a message board for a product you don't own...but it doesn't work like that. Dream away all you want about the next revision, but the current version is awesome.

The current version being awesome has nothing to do with whether or not they will revise the Mac Pro. Apple doesn't mass produce products. They contract with manufacturing companies to mass produce its products. Apple doesn't manufacture anything. MacBooks, iPhones, iMacs, iPods, and those all get ~annual upgrades.

I don't think Apple went through all the R&D to design the new Mac Pro just to let it become obsolete, especially when it's takes so little to keep it up to date. I believe that with the nMP they have made a statement that they are staying in the pro game. That means being the first to release upgrades when/before its competitors can with the same tech. They will release a haswell-ep MP, and it will happen shortly after the chip is released.

It's really sad that the only way you can stay happy with your purchase is to believe that it will be the latest Mac Pro for years to come. There is no doubt it's an awesome computer but believing that the largest tech company in the world isn't going to upgrade its flagship computer is asinine.

 

[goMac]

Look, my point is simple. Apple mass produces products. So they, like all mass producers have to do things a certain way. Now, I know you'd love to rewrite business to prove a point in a message board for a product you don't own...but it doesn't work like that. Dream away all you want about the next revision, but the current version is awesome.

Sure. And like most manufacturers, there is generally a pattern. Apple usually does products on a yearly cycle. They like to rev when Intel revs their chipsets. The Mac Pro is coming up on being a year old, and Intel is rev'ing their chipsets towards the end of the year. Both fit the typical conditions for a Mac Pro refresh.

I'm just going off actual history of how Apple works here. I'm not making any broad re-assumptions about manufacturing. Generally, with the last revision being an exception, the Mac Pro gets rev'd about once a calendar year.

If rev'ing the Mac Pro yearly is so hard that requires an act of god to break the laws of manufacturing, then explain the 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 Mac pros.

 

[MacProCard]

If rev'ing the Mac Pro yearly is so hard that requires an act of god to break the laws of manufacturing, then explain the 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, and 2010 Mac pros.

Yawn. I already said dream away about the new and even better nMP that's not out or announced.

Funny how I haven't heard any real PRO user complain about it....Just the people that don't own one.

 

[AidenShaw]

It's really sad that the only way you can stay happy with your purchase is to believe that it will be the latest Mac Pro for years to come. There is no doubt it's an awesome computer but believing that the largest tech company in the world isn't going to upgrade its flagship computer is asinine.

+1

You need to buy when you need to buy.

I'll buy any E5 v2 Ivy Bridge servers that I need in the next few months, but we're doing a big "toss the old, buy current" refresh in the lab. I'll wait until the December quarter to update servers. The September quarter will be upgrading storage.

And anyone paying attention to this forum will see that I recently bought a Dell T3610 on my personal account for my home use - in spite of the outdated technology. It was simply a matter that my Core i7-940 had a hard limit of 24 GiB of RAM - and that simply wasn't enough. The T3610 supports 128 GiB in 8 slots, and should do 256 GiB when the 16 GiB RDIMMs are qualified. I needed the RAM in April, the fact that I knew that something better would ship in September was not relevant.

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Yawn. I already said dream away about the new and even better nMP that's not out or announced.

Funny how I haven't heard any real PRO user complain about it....Just the people that don't own one.

How do you decide who is a real pro user?

 

[Vanilla Face]

YFunny how I haven't heard any real PRO user complain about it....Just the people that don't own one.

Who was complaining about what? I don't think anyone in this thread said there was anything wrong with the current machine. I wasn't in a position to buy a nMP when it was released, but I am now. I don't need the nMP, it's just something I want. Given that, I'm content on the machines I have and I'd rather purchase a brand new revision than one that's half way through it's life cycle. I did the same thing when I lost my iPhone 5. I used my sister's old droid, waited a few months, and bought the iPhone 5s when It came out.

In the mean time, it's fun to speculate on what's coming. It passes the time. It gets you excited. Why does people talking about a new model make you so unhappy and grumpy?

 

[handsome pete]

Funny how I haven't heard any real PRO user complain about it.

Funny how I've not seen any real PRO user even buy one.

See how stupid anecdotal claims are?

 

[MacProCard]

[/COLOR]

The current version being awesome has nothing to do with whether or not they will revise the Mac Pro. Apple doesn't mass produce products. They contract with manufacturing companies to mass produce its products. Apple doesn't manufacture anything. MacBooks, iPhones, iMacs, iPods, and those all get ~annual upgrades.

I don't think Apple went through all the R&D to design the new Mac Pro just to let it become obsolete, especially when it's takes so little to keep it up to date. I believe that with the nMP they have made a statement that they are staying in the pro game. That means being the first to release upgrades when/before its competitors can with the same tech. They will release a haswell-ep MP, and it will happen shortly after the chip is released.

It's really sad that the only way you can stay happy with your purchase is to believe that it will be the latest Mac Pro for years to come. There is no doubt it's an awesome computer but believing that the largest tech company in the world isn't going to upgrade its flagship computer is asinine.

Somebody had to manufacture it. There's equations they used to figure out sales, forecasting etc. They just don't upgrade or change things because they can. It has to make economic sense.

I've never said they'll never upgrade it. Just that the current predictions seemed a little wishful thinking.

The average base model is a 4 core and 6 core machine. And I bet they sell more of these than anything. The high end is 8c and 12c. So there's still plenty of room for upgrades to faster machines.

 

[AidenShaw]

Somebody had to manufacture it. There's equations they used to figure out sales, forecasting etc. They just don't upgrade or change things because they can. It has to make economic sense.

And if in the economic model it costs next to nothing to upgrade to the Haswell-EP processors - you'll see Apple E5-v3's along with everyone else.

I've never said they'll never upgrade it. Just that the current predictions seemed a little wishful thinking.

It will cost Apple next to nothing to upgrade to Haswell-EP - why is that "wishful thinking"?

The average base model is a 4 core and 6 core machine. And I bet they sell more of these than anything. The high end is 8c and 12c. So there's still plenty of room for upgrades to faster machines.

Do you want the old 4-core without AVX-2 or the old 6-core without AVX-2? That will be the question when Haswell-EP is shipping.

 

[MacProCard]

Funny how I've not seen any real PRO user even buy one.

See how stupid anecdotal claims are?

LOL. That should tell you something. You need to start hanging around better PROs.

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Do you want the old 4-core without AVX-2 or the old 6-core without AVX-2?

I'm happy with the one I have. I can write code with it. I can edit large multi cam clips raw footage. It's much faster than my late 2013 rMBP with 16gb and upgrade video. So I'm fine with it for now.

Hope you find what you're looking for in a nMP soon...just not too soon.

 

[AidenShaw]

I'm happy with the one I have. I can write code with it. I can edit large multi cam clips raw footage. It's much faster than my late 2013 rMBP with 16gb and upgrade video. So I'm fine with it for now.

Be sure to set your browser to block any AVX-2 or Haswell-EP benchmarks. Those could make "I'm fine with it for now" be a very short time.

 

[MacProCard]

It will cost Apple next to nothing to upgrade to Haswell-EP - why is that "wishful thinking"?

And how do you know this? New technology is very expensive. Because you say so?

Enjoy not having one. I think I'm going to check out buying a new Rolex GMT for myself. I don't need it but I want it as strictly a flying watch. How wasteful huh?

 

[Umbongo]

And how do you know this? New technology is very expensive. Because you say so?

Enjoy not having one. I think I'm going to check out buying a new Rolex GMT for myself. I don't need it but I want it as strictly a flying watch. How wasteful huh?

What technology in the next Mac Pro will be more expensive than that in the current one to a company with Apple's purchasing power?

 

[EvilMonk]

And how do you know this? New technology is very expensive. Because you say so?

Enjoy not having one. I think I'm going to check out buying a new Rolex GMT for myself. I don't need it but I want it as strictly a flying watch. How wasteful huh?

rofl

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What technology in the next Mac Pro will be more expensive than that in the current one to a company with Apple's purchasing power?

Apple purchasing power? Don't get too excited... Apple is far from making a ******** of money with the Mac Pro... the Mac Pro must not even be 1% of the sales they have with their computer division and the computers are not their dairy cow... their niche product is the iPhone...
The reason they have so much cash right now is the iPhone...
They are slowly giving up on everything pro lately... xServe... Aperture... what next?

 

[AidenShaw]

Enjoy not having one. I think I'm going to check out buying a new Rolex GMT for myself. I don't need it but I want it as strictly a flying watch. How wasteful huh?

If you want to spend a lot of money on an incredibly ugly watch, go ahead. Apparently the price tag is more important to you than the appearance.

And what relevance does that have to the topic of how long will Apple wait to bring the MP6,1 up to current technology?

 

[goMac]

I'm happy with the one I have. I can write code with it. I can edit large multi cam clips raw footage. It's much faster than my late 2013 rMBP with 16gb and upgrade video. So I'm fine with it for now.

Hope you find what you're looking for in a nMP soon...just not too soon.

Here's the thing I don't get....

Almost no one in this thread is telling you that you can't be happy with your Mac Pro. By all means, I'm still rocking an older Mac Pro and I'm happy with it too. Please, if you like your Mac Pro, please keep liking it.

That doesn't change that conditions are lining up that typically point to a refresh coming. I'd say the very very latest I'd see the refresh happening is first few months of 2015, but I think a refresh could be announced in the August time frame too (possibly shipping a month or two later.)

If that impacts your enjoyment of your machine, that's not my problem, that's your problem. It also doesn't change Apple's production pattern, that Haswell is a significant step, or that Haswell isn't a complicated upgrade for production. It even, IIRC, uses the same socket.

You might not be a pro, but that also doesn't change that you're not the biggest market for the Mac Pro. The problem Apple has with pros right now is that pros are in doubt of the future of the Mac Pro. There are pros who are holding their purchases of the Mac Pro until it's proven Apple does plan to even continue iterating on the Mac Pro at all. And if Apple doesn't upgrade the Mac Pro, pros will start losing confidence in Apple and move to Windows. So upgrading the Mac Pro isn't just going to be a components thing. It's going to be something that builds confidence in the Mac Pro line in general.

Again, you liking your rev a Mac Pro doesn't change any of the facts here. Haswell-EP is on time, new GPUs are ready, and we're getting close to a year in on the Mac Pro, which is a very high profile machine for Apple right now. Those have always in the past been traditional signs of a release coming.

Others on this forum will tell you, typically when Intel releases a new processor, Apple announces a new Mac Pro either a few weeks before up to 3-4 months after. And a new Intel processor is on track to arrive in the next few months. That's not me doing any wishful thinking, those are the facts.

If the Mac Pro is powerful enough for you, or others, by all means, please buy the current model. Again, that does not change the basic facts that things are lining up for a revision. It doesn't matter how much money you have, how much you love your Mac Pro, or how fast you think it is. Facts point to a revision.

Apple purchasing power? Don't get too excited... Apple is far from making a ******** of money with the Mac Pro... the Mac Pro must not even be 1% of the sales they have with their computer division and the computers are not their dairy cow... their niche product is the iPhone...
The reason they have so much cash right now is the iPhone...
They are slowly giving up on everything pro lately... xServe... Aperture... what next?

I've heard the Mac Pro is financially not a problem for Apple. It doesn't make them billions, but the margins on it are so high it's extremely hard for them to lose money on it. And the margins are pretty obvious from the component prices when you order from Apple.

XServe had a lot of server and support costs (different set of custom server software, higher end support plans) so the margins on it were in the tank. It cost Apple more money to produce OS X Server and maintain the things then they made selling Xserves. The Mac Pro doesn't use custom software or have a different support plan, so it's not in the same boat.

 

[AidenShaw]

...
The problem Apple has with pros right now is that pros are in doubt of the future of the Mac Pro. There are pros who are holding their purchases of the Mac Pro until it's proven Apple does plan to even continue iterating on the Mac Pro at all. And if Apple doesn't upgrade the Mac Pro, pros will start losing confidence in Apple and move to Windows. So upgrading the Mac Pro isn't just going to be a components thing. It's going to be something that builds confidence in the Mac Pro line in general.

This.

Many true Pro workflows are application based. Adobe products are cross-platform - moving to Windows is simple. For every Apple-proprietary app there are cross-platform alternatives.

Apple needs to upgrade the MP6,1 with Haswell EP as soon as it is shipping in volume. If Apple doesn't, the true Pros will migrate to other platforms.

 

[Umbongo]

rofl

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Apple purchasing power? Don't get too excited... Apple is far from making a ******** of money with the Mac Pro... the Mac Pro must not even be 1% of the sales they have with their computer division and the computers are not their dairy cow... their niche product is the iPhone...
The reason they have so much cash right now is the iPhone...
They are slowly giving up on everything pro lately... xServe... Aperture... what next?

More like 0.1% if that. Desktops are ~3%.[edit: misread, that's for overall sales. Around 2-3% of computer sales. That doesn't mean Apple don't leverage their contracts and power with the suppliers if they want stuff. My point was more that the parts aren't expensive and Apple aren't going to be paying more than others would be. The component cost will be around a third of the retail price of the base model and the other costs are unavoidable unless they never upgrade it. With continued rising costs in other areas of production they aren't going to wait ages and lose out on sales when it is such a niche product.

 

[EvilMonk]

This.

Many true Pro workflows are application based. Adobe products are cross-platform - moving to Windows is simple. For every Apple-proprietary app there are cross-platform alternatives.

Apple needs to upgrade the MP6,1 with Haswell EP as soon as it is shipping in volume. If Apple doesn't, the true Pros will migrate to other platforms.

Well they don't even ship the current Mac Pros in volume...
I ordered my new Mac Pro 8 cores 3Ghz 32Gb 1Tb SSD dual D700 2 weeks ago today and from what the UPS website tells me I should receive it tomorrow... I guess thats what you get for having a computer made in the US instead of chinaland... which make me think their costs must be much higher than the previous Mac Pros that were made in china...

 

[AidenShaw]

Well they don't even ship the current Mac Pros in volume...
I ordered my new Mac Pro 8 cores 3Ghz 32Gb 1Tb SSD dual D700 2 weeks ago today and from what the UPS website tells me I should receive it tomorrow... I guess thats what you get for having a computer made in the US instead of chinaland... which make me think their costs must be much higher than the previous Mac Pros that were made in china...

The standard configs are shipping same day - any BTO configs are slower.

The MP6,1 demand has dropped below supply, standard configs ship same day, BTO configs a bit later.

 

[Vanilla Face]

Somebody had to manufacture it. There's equations they used to figure out sales, forecasting etc. They just don't upgrade or change things because they can. It has to make economic sense.

Oh, you're right. How silly of me. I guess that's why Intel isn't updating it's processor line. They don't really have any serious competition, just like you seem to think Apple doesn't. So it'd be stupid of them to waste so much money changing their manufacturing. Why on earth would they ever bother coming out with new chip architecture and smaller die processes? You clearly know business/economics better than intel or apple.

 

[handsome pete]

LOL. That should tell you something. You need to start hanging around better PROs.

Yeah, it tells me that the new Mac Pro hasn't made its way into many medium to large studios/post houses. But again, that's purely anecdotal on my part so it means nothing. As someone mentioned, you're not the arbiter of what a PRO is. I'm not about to get into a juvenile pissing match over that, but I can assure you that I do just fine. I'm just not understanding you're hyper defensiveness over this discussion.