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I have this APC one and thought I was safe. Last weekend there was a lightning storm and now my MBP no longer starts up (fan starts and nothing else, Apple store reckons probably logic board). I thought I had done my due diligence and "researched" to get reasonable protection. Now I feel totally unsure.
 
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Went to several stores including Staples, BestBuy, Walmart, Costco and Home Depot. Still cannot find one that has the critical 15 amp breaker, is UL Listed, and has no surge protector parts listed. Any suggestion?
Waber Model 602
https://www.tripplite.com/shared/product-pages/EN/602.pdf

Or Accell D080B-007K-R PowerSquid 5-Outlet Multiplier.

These are difficult to find because so many are so manipulated by advertising and the 'need' for near zero protector parts in each power strip.
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I thought I had done my due diligence and "researched" to get reasonable protection. Now I feel totally unsure.
What numbers proved that device would protect from destructive surges? It only claim to protect from tiny 1007 joule and no more than 2014 joule surges. It does not even discuss the many types of surges. And has no dedicated wire for an always required low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground.

What spec numbers said it does effective protection?
 
I have this APC one and thought I was safe. Last weekend there was a lightning storm and now my MBP no longer starts up (fan starts and nothing else, Apple store reckons probably logic board). I thought I had done my due diligence and "researched" to get reasonable protection. Now I feel totally unsure.

The only way to protect a device from a lightning strike to the grid is to unplug it. Surges are not the same as spikes.

Think about it - lightning travels several miles through air, which is a pretty good insulator. Surge protectors, despite the "protection" they offer, are still full of conductors. They're not going to protect against a lightning strike.
 
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The only way to protect a device from a lightning strike to the grid is to unplug it. Surges are not the same as spikes.

Think about it - lightning travels several miles through air, which is a pretty good insulator. Surge protectors, despite the "protection" they offer, are still full of conductors. They're not going to protect against a lightning strike.

I beg to differ. Yes you can protect from lightning strikes with protectors like this:

24031-004-8D61DAC0.jpg
 
I wouldn't recommend any of IKEA's electronics for prolonged use. Furniture, sure they're okay. Electronics.... probably not. Power strips are supposed to have their own fuse.

As I said, look for fuse and load. TV systems typically need 300 watts just for themselves. At 6 plugs, you need to be sure that the strip can handle 2000 watts.

Hello, IKEA is selling a pair of power strips at $5.99.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/70086401/

Is this good enough for expensive computer and TV systems? If not what specifications of power strip should I look into when buying one? Thanks.
 
I beg to differ. Yes you can protect from lightning strikes with protectors like this:

24031-004-8D61DAC0.jpg

Your example is exactly what I was saying. You put up a picture of how a lightning rod works, which is basically to make the lightning hit the rod and not the electrical grid. If lightning hits the distribution wires, no surge protector is going to stop the spike.
 
Tripp-Lite ultra; metal case and good surge protection.
 

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If lightning hits the distribution wires, no surge protector is going to stop the spike.
Again, you demonstrate why scams work. Explained was how direct lightning strikes cause no damage. But ignored to again recite what propaganda needs you to believe. Confusion abounds when one remains attached to a myth - that protection is about *stopping*. Nothing stops lightning. Direct lightning strikes without damage was routine even 100 years. Please unlearn myths that promote a Tripplite, APC, or Furman "magic box". An informed human never tries to *stop* a surge. Magic boxes do not work.

Second, Early Streamer Emission devices also claim to *stop* lightning. That scam even claims to "discharge" air; thereby *stopping* lightning. Red Tomato demonstrated what *diverts* lightning. One must completely ignore what was posted to think that is *stopping* lightning. Reality is never found in soundbytes. Soundbyte recommendations (ie Tripplite or a UPS) claim to *stop* lightning.

Lightning rods protect a structure. Topic is about protecting an appliance. Appliance protection works for same reasons that lightning rods protect structures or rockets on a pad awaiting launch. Effective protection never *stops* a surge.

Third, easily manipulated consumers identify themselves by hyping a mythical Tripplite or Furman solution. An obviously bogus solution is a UPS. Even UPS manufacturers do not claim to protect from destructive surges. Then use what works on the most easily scammed. They claim it will *stop* lightning where lying is legal - using subjective claims in sales brochures and advertising. A wirecutter.com citation also demonstrates how profits are created using misinformation. Again, where are required spec numbers that claim protection? Why is every bogus solution promoted without even one number?

Apple-ette thought this APC would provide reasonable protection due to due diligence. Where was one spec number that claims that protection? None exist. They made subjective claims where lying is legal. Subjective claims are obscenely profitable. Somehow the APC would *stop* a surge.

That APC and other devices do something useful only if a 'whole house' solution is properly earthed. A surge is not *stopped* by a 'whole house' solution. Therefore it is so effective. Surges are harmlessly *diverted*to and joules *absorbed* by earth ground.

Structure is protected by lightning rods; connected to earth.. Appliances protected by something completely different but also called a surge protector; connected low impedance (ie less than 3 meters) to earth.

Earth ground has no model number. Earth is not advertised since selling ground is not obscenely profitable. Many educated by advertising would only know APC, Trpplite, Furman, and other wirecutter.com myths. Many are only educated by advertising; not by science. So many still do not know about an only item that does protection - earth ground.

Bottom line: protection means a hardwire connects lightning harmlessly to earth. Or a protector does what that hardwire does better. Then surges (ie lightning) are not *stopped*. Then damage from a direct lightning strike is averted. The energy is harmlessly *absorbed*.

Unfortunately many paragraphs are needed to explain how protection was done even 100 years ago. And why *stopping* is not a solution. Routine are direct lightning strikes without damage. So routine that damage is directly traceable to a human mistake.

Where is even one spec number that claims that above Tripplite does anything useful? None provided because none exist.
 
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Have you ever considered that it is possible to politely explain things without insulting people or belittling them?
Where do you find insult? You could not even cite the sentence that insults you? That is disingenuous.

Posted are facts and numbers. Completely irrelevant and not discussed is any person. Detailed are examples of bogus recommendation - quickly identified by no spec numbers. That disparages no one - except maybe someone who becomes emotional over having been scammed by Furman.

Described is how to separate bogus recommendations from ones based in reality. If that insults you, apparently you take personal insult that you were easily scammed by subjective lies. So you attack the messenger. I am sorry you did not learn this stuff. But adults who want to learn would welcome that knowledge; not become emotional.

What you feel is irrelevant to facts and this thread. If facts insult you, well that is your problem - and irrelevant to everything here.

Exposing bogus Tripplite, UPS, or wirecutter.com recommendations insults no one. Some could (probably should) apologize for making recommendations without spec numbers. Or one can learn from his mistakes. Example of a person who learns rather than become emotional.

Unfortunately some feel insulted when facts expose a scam they had believed. I am sorry that makes you angry.
 
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I like how you respond with more condescension and insults.
Only emotional and condescending insults come from you. I tire of your childish behavior. Please address the topic or move on.

I am now amused by the irony. That you use the name 'weaselboy'.
 
I wouldn't recommend any of IKEA's electronics for prolonged use. Furniture, sure they're okay. Electronics.... probably not. Power strips are supposed to have their own fuse.

As I said, look for fuse and load. TV systems typically need 300 watts just for themselves. At 6 plugs, you need to be sure that the strip can handle 2000 watts.


I need one with 8-10 plugs.
 
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the trick to power strips or surge protectors are the 'Joules', the higher the better
What is the difference between near zero (hundreds) joules in a UPS and thousand joules in a power strip? Almost nothing when destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. Those damning numbers.

Protection means one can say where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. But if selling a scam to naive consumers, those near zero numbers are promoted 'subjectively' as 100% protection. Scams work on a majority who ignore numbers. Effective protection is about hundreds of thousands of joules.

Only item missing on ineffective protectors: a dedicated and low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to single point earth ground. Ineffective protectors with near zero joules, are located adjacent to appliances, and do not have that dedicated earthing wire ; do not claim to protect from destructive surges. Near zero protectors claim to protect from a type of surge already made irrelevant by protection inside all appliances.

But they sure are profitable. Ineffective protectors can spend heavily on advertising to 'educate' the naive; who then recommend near zero joule protectors.
 
Tripp-Lite Isobar. For example, the 8-outlet model with a 12-foot cord, metal case, and 3840 Joules of surge suppression.

https://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-I...=1469067327&sr=8-1&keywords=tripp+lite+isobar

How is the isobar8ULTRA compared with the Tripp Lite 10 Outlet Surget Protector Power Strip (TLP1008TEL)? The former is more expensive.

There have been instability in internet connection at home. A technician came yesterday. Although was not 100% sure the cause of the instability, he mentioned that I should not plug the wifi router to any power strip. Instead, I should have plugged it directly into the wall outlet. He said that power strips/surge protectors create interference. I recall that somebody also asked me not to plug my AIO printer to power strip/surge protector. In this case, is the isobar better? Can it isolate those interference?
 
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In this case, is the isobar better? Can it isolate those interference?
If better, then an Isobar spec number that defines better is posted. It is still near zero (ineffective) protection. As even indicated by no dedicated and low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground.

Power strip protectors (whether selling for $10 or $100) create these problems. Similar products can sell for widely varying prices.

Another confirmation is found in an HP support forum (http://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/LaserJ...eplacememt/m-p/5748836/highlight/true#M293297) says:
Problems or issues may arise when an HP LaserJet series printer is connected to an uninterruptible power supply (UPS), a power strip, or a surge protector This is not limited to Laserjet printers.

Where was one reason (based in facts or numbers) to consider an Isobar? After so many previous facts and recommendations of products that do something useful, why even consider an Isobar? To do what? Somehow it is better because an equivalent product is more expensive?

Where does an Isobar do this? A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.
 
Westom,

I think you have some valid points but you don't express them clearly. Let me try.

1. If you want to protect against a direct lightning strike on your house, you need a lightning rod/arrestor properly grounded to earth.

2. If you want to protect against a massive surge from outside the house from a nearby lightning strike or power line accident, you might want surge protective "whole house" equipment installed at the power service entrance to the house. But even in this situation I understand that utility companies may have already upgraded their own equipment to provide some of that protection without you installing additional equipment.

3. Whole house equipment may still let in additional energy but it is nothing to worry about because appliances are designed to easily handle this additional energy.

3. Point of use surge protectors (i.e., the surge strips that appliances in the house are plugged into) are less than useless because they don't do anything that the appliance can't already do and, in fact, can be dangerous because they can catch fire.

4. UPS shouldn't be relied on for surge protection for the same reasons above. UPS' are primarily for extended appliance use and normal shutdown during power blackouts and maybe also provide automatic voltage regulation.

5. If you want additional power outlets, buy power distribution units, i.e. strips with no surge protection circuitry and with a circuit breaker.

If these are the points you are making, then I agree with you.

PS: I know you don't like those series mode surge protectors either and you may be right but I am going to try one for a special case. I want to use one to isolate my laser printer from my workstation computers and prevent it from causing the UPS' to go on battery when printing. We'll see if it works when I get it in a few days.
 
Westom,
I think you have some valid points but you don't express them clearly. Let me try.
That is an executive summary. Each statement does not say why. Without reasons why tempered by numbers, a statement should be regarded as suspect or bogus.

It is easier to read. And demonstrates why so many spend so much more on plug-in protectors. Many *know* only because it is easier to read; without learning why.

This is not only about protectors. It even explains why Saddam had WMDs. So many do not bother to demand reasons why; only want to be told what to believe. Therefore are easily deceived. Many (if not a majority) never learn that recommendations without why and numbers is a probable lie.

Without including reasons why, it is easier to read. Does not even discuss THE most important item that actually provides protection - earth ground. And is an accurate 'executive' summary.
 
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That is an executive summary. Each statement does not say why. Without reasons why tempered by numbers, a statement should be regarded as suspect or bogus.

It is easier to read. And demonstrates why so many spend so much more on plug-in protectors. Many *know* only because it is easier to read; without learning why.

This is not only about protectors. It even explains why Saddam had WMDs. So many do not bother to demand reasons why; only want to be told what to believe. Therefore are easily deceived. Many (if not a majority) never learn that recommendations without why and numbers is a probable lie.

Without including reasons why, it is easier to read. Does not even discuss THE most important item that actually provides protection - earth ground. And is an accurate 'executive' summary.
Yes, of course, reasons for conclusions are important. Now, why don't you take the time to provide them for each of the points you made.
 
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Westom,

I think you have some valid points but you don't express them clearly. Let me try.

1. If you want to protect against a direct lightning strike on your house, you need a lightning rod/arrestor properly grounded to earth.

2. If you want to protect against a massive surge from outside the house from a nearby lightning strike or power line accident, you might want surge protective "whole house" equipment installed at the power service entrance to the house. But even in this situation I understand that utility companies may have already upgraded their own equipment to provide some of that protection without you installing additional equipment.

3. Whole house equipment may still let in additional energy but it is nothing to worry about because appliances are designed to easily handle this additional energy.

3. Point of use surge protectors (i.e., the surge strips that appliances in the house are plugged into) are less than useless because they don't do anything that the appliance can't already do and, in fact, can be dangerous because they can catch fire.

4. UPS shouldn't be relied on for surge protection for the same reasons above. UPS' are primarily for extended appliance use and normal shutdown during power blackouts and maybe also provide automatic voltage regulation.

5. If you want additional power outlets, buy power distribution units, i.e. strips with no surge protection circuitry and with a circuit breaker.

If these are the points you are making, then I agree with you.

PS: I know you don't like those series mode surge protectors either and you may be right but I am going to try one for a special case. I want to use one to isolate my laser printer from my workstation computers and prevent it from causing the UPS' to go on battery when printing. We'll see if it works when I get it in a few days.


I live in a condo. Don't know if they already have some kind of protection installed. Should ask the management.
 
People rely more heavily on "surge protection" than they should. It's a lot of hype without as much real danger as you might think.

A house four or five doors down was struck by lightning the other day and our power blip'd out. We lost a GFCI outlet and two phone chargers (the phones plugged therein were fine). Nothing else in the house was harmed - no TV's, computers, electronics, etc. And we don't own a single surge protector (which won't protect against a lightning strike anyway).

There seem to be too many variables in the mix to make it worth worrying about. If it were me, I'd buy the power strips and use them.

You are lucky. A family member, in the span of three years, went through 6 PC power supplies, two microwaves, three tv's, and a box of phone chargers, not to mention a bunch of other accessories. We put in a 'power conditioner', and the problems went away.
 
I live in a condo. Don't know if they already have some kind of protection installed. Should ask the management.
Start by examining what does protection - a single point earth ground. Then follow each hardwire back to what it is connecting to. If that connection is too long (ie more than 10 feet), is inside metallic conduit, or has sharp bends, then protection does not exist.

A hardwire connection must also exist for TV cable, telephone, satellite dish, and AC electric to the same earthing electrode.

Nothing there says protection does exist. Faults mean any protection is compromised. If those required connections exist, then look for the item (ie 'whole house' protector or ground block) that is at the other end of that hardwire.

At the other end (for AC electric) should be a 'whole house' protector. Either attached to the breaker box or located behind an electric meter. If that does not exist, then effective protection does not exist. Always first determine what exists before asking. Since background knowledge is essential to ask appropriate questions and to comprehend what they are really saying.

That TV cable, telephone, and satellite dish protection should already exist as required by code. Most will have no protection on AC electric unless you demanded it. Because no codes or standards require that protection.

Better is to first see what does exist before asking questions. BTW, same also applies to your 'primary' protection layer that is provided by an AC utility on equipment out at the street.
 
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