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GiantKiwi

macrumors regular
Jun 13, 2016
170
136
Cambridge, UK
hey sorry i just made an account so might not look very reputable but i dont think its a problem specific to a particular dock, i was using the kogan 5 in 1 with passthrough and it bricked my m1 mac within a few weeks of using it, luckily i have applecare plus but the logic board is completely fried and i have lost all data on the computer. happy to post proof if you want

At this point, it's been fairly well established - at the point of that post, it hadn't been. Hopefully Apple aren't being too much of a PITA towards you over it.

Personally had to deal with 3 different students coming into the office at work who've had it happen, they've all been given warranty replacements by Apple, but that's only because I've pointed them to the specific legislation in UK law - prior to that Apple tried to give them the runaround.

All 3 had been using Satechi PD adapters bought from the Apple Store (https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/produ...98d2398851e21ddae541e41b952771a56d0bfdbf73f35).
 
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abhi182

macrumors regular
Apr 24, 2016
173
121
hey sorry i just made an account so might not look very reputable but i dont think its a problem specific to a particular dock, i was using the kogan 5 in 1 with passthrough and it bricked my m1 mac within a few weeks of using it, luckily i have applecare plus but the logic board is completely fried and i have lost all data on the computer. happy to post proof if you want
Thanks for that update
Was there anything in particular that day that may have caused it?
I would normally assume that a scenario such as this would arise immediately after connecting or within a short time..

Even though I am using an Apple adapter - and the reason to choose said adapter was due to unconfirmed reports of what you just confirmed

yet wondering if it would be worthwhile to use 2 wires to dock instead of 1 (i.e. direct charging instead of passthrough)
 

quarq

macrumors member
Oct 14, 2011
69
45
I have the VAVA USB C Hub 9-in-1 USB C Adapter that I got off Amazon. It takes a USB C DC IN that will power your MBP.. That being said, the ethernet port often dies on it and I have to pull the ethernet cable and plug back in. Not sure if that's a Apple bug or a Vava bug.. But, everything else works great and it's quite small and portable.

 

gank41

macrumors 601
Mar 25, 2008
4,350
5,022
I have the VAVA USB C Hub 9-in-1 USB C Adapter that I got off Amazon. It takes a USB C DC IN that will power your MBP.. That being said, the ethernet port often dies on it and I have to pull the ethernet cable and plug back in. Not sure if that's a Apple bug or a Vava bug.. But, everything else works great and it's quite small and portable.
There are a lot of people having that issue, myself included. I have a Belkin Thunderbolt 3 Dock Pro, and I’m also losing my Ethernet connection almost daily. What’s more, sometimes just renewing DHCP in Network Settings does the trick, sometimes Unplugging/Plugging back in, and sometimes I’m having to remove the power to the dock all together. It still obtains the same IP Address when it reconnects, and I’ve even tried removing the connection from my Modem/Router’s internal settings, as to replicate it connecting as new. It’ll obtain a new IP Address, and then after a day or so I’ll have the same problem again, with all of the same troubleshooting sometimes seemingly fixing it temporarily.
 
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alexjholland

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
At this point, it's been fairly well established - at the point of that post, it hadn't been. Hopefully Apple aren't being too much of a PITA towards you over it.

Personally had to deal with 3 different students coming into the office at work who've had it happen, they've all been given warranty replacements by Apple, but that's only because I've pointed them to the specific legislation in UK law - prior to that Apple tried to give them the runaround.

All 3 had been using Satechi PD adapters bought from the Apple Store (https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/produ...98d2398851e21ddae541e41b952771a56d0bfdbf73f35).
Ouch. My MacBook Pro M1 arrives on Thursday... and I have a Caldigit Soho for it.

I'm planning to fly back to SE Asia later this year and sometimes there's no Apple Store in my country.

Will not be happy to have this happen and need to somehow find my way to an Apple Store hundreds of miles away.
 

abhi182

macrumors regular
Apr 24, 2016
173
121
Ouch. My MacBook Pro M1 arrives on Thursday... and I have a Caldigit Soho for it.

I'm planning to fly back to SE Asia later this year and sometimes there's no Apple Store in my country.

Will not be happy to have this happen and need to somehow find my way to an Apple Store hundreds of miles away.
It appears that the issues are confined to users with PD passthrough
Possible workarounds:

1) Use 1 port for power and a non 4k monitor + peripherals with any cheap hub via port 2
2) Use 1 port for power and a 4K monitor with a C to HDMI cable but at loss of other USB peripherals - workable if you use a BT KB and mouse
3) Use 1 port for power and a 4K monitor with a C/TB hub that supports 4k60 - Some of the caldigit and OWC hubs seem to support this fine though the cheap ones on amazon don't
4) Use an Apple A2119 - with a single cable and passthrough charging (I presume this would have been tested thoroughly by apple)
 

alexjholland

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
It appears that the issues are confined to users with PD passthrough
Possible workarounds:

1) Use 1 port for power and a non 4k monitor + peripherals with any cheap hub via port 2
2) Use 1 port for power and a 4K monitor with a C to HDMI cable but at loss of other USB peripherals - workable if you use a BT KB and mouse
3) Use 1 port for power and a 4K monitor with a C/TB hub that supports 4k60 - Some of the caldigit and OWC hubs seem to support this fine though the cheap ones on amazon don't
4) Use an Apple A2119 - with a single cable and passthrough charging (I presume this would have been tested thoroughly by apple)
Right. But PD passthrough is a pretty big feature.

I need to skip this altogether? Indefinitely?

I can do option 3 with my MacBook Pro M1 and Caldigit Soho.

However, my PixelBook Go doesn't support 4K/60Hz via the hub as it's only got a DisplayPort 1.2 output (you need DP 1.4 to enable 4K/60 via the Hub).

So, I'd settled on having DisplayPort - USB C and then the dock for everything else.

But If I instead wire my monitor's Displayport straight to the Hub, then I can't use the PixelBook Go interchangeably anymore.

Basically, I've spent £4,000 on two laptops, a monitor, and a hub... and can't connect them all up at the same time.

There's 'progress' for you.
 

abhi182

macrumors regular
Apr 24, 2016
173
121
Right. But PD passthrough is a pretty big feature.

I need to skip this altogether? Indefinitely?

I can do option 3 with my MacBook Pro M1 and Caldigit Soho.

However, my PixelBook Go doesn't support 4K/60Hz via the hub as it's only got a DisplayPort 1.2 output (you need DP 1.4 to enable 4K/60 via the Hub).

So, I'd settled on having DisplayPort - USB C and then the dock for everything else.

But If I instead wire my monitor's Displayport straight to the Hub, then I can't use the PixelBook Go interchangeably anymore.

Basically, I've spent £4,000 on two laptops, a monitor, and a hub... and can't connect them all up at the same time.

There's 'progress' for you.
Yeah, sad, innit?
PD passthrough especially seems to be using non standard implementation across the board!

FWIW, I use a LG Gram windows laptop interchangeably with my setup (A2119 hub).
4k60 works fine with both devices

But for whatever reason, the LG refuses to charge via PD passthrough (direct connection works fine)...
What’s worse, if the PD cable is connected - some of the USB devices connected to the hub don’t work with the LG (e.g. mouse dongle) while some others do (ethernet dongle) - Everything works fine if Power cable is removed from hub or if I switch to the MBA- Go figure!

So considering I have to remove the PD cable anyway , I guess I will leave it as a two wire setup ..(or more like a 2 of 3 wires)
- 1 from the hub for display and USB peripherals
- 2nd being the power cable (USB C on 2nd port for mac and regular barrel for LG)
 
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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
Right. But PD passthrough is a pretty big feature.

I need to skip this altogether? Indefinitely?

I can do option 3 with my MacBook Pro M1 and Caldigit Soho.

However, my PixelBook Go doesn't support 4K/60Hz via the hub as it's only got a DisplayPort 1.2 output (you need DP 1.4 to enable 4K/60 via the Hub).

So, I'd settled on having DisplayPort - USB C and then the dock for everything else.

But If I instead wire my monitor's Displayport straight to the Hub, then I can't use the PixelBook Go interchangeably anymore.

Basically, I've spent £4,000 on two laptops, a monitor, and a hub... and can't connect them all up at the same time.

There's 'progress' for you.
I really wouldn't worry about it especially with the SOHO dock since you can use an Apple adapter for the PD passthrough. There have been a few reports about this but Apple has probably shipped 1 million or more M1 Macs so far. That is a very small percentage of users that have had a problem.
 

alexjholland

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
I really wouldn't worry about it especially with the SOHO dock since you can use an Apple adapter for the PD passthrough. There have been a few reports about this but Apple has probably shipped 1 million or more M1 Macs so far. That is a very small percentage of users that have had a problem.
Oh hang on.

Right now I have...

Chromebook
  1. USB-C > DisplayPort > 4K Monitor
  2. USB-C > Soho> USB peripherals + power passthrough.
Without unplugging my monitor, I could do..

MacBook Pro M1
1. USB-C > Apple adapter > HDMI out + power passthrough
2. USB-C > Soho > USB peripherals

ChromeBook only outputs 4K/60Hz via Displayport, whereas I believe MacBook M1 will output the same 4K/60Hz signal via both Displayport and HDMI?

However, I'm hardly getting much value out of the Soho by doing this...
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
Oh hang on.

Right now I have...

Chromebook
  1. USB-C > DisplayPort > 4K Monitor
  2. USB-C > Soho> USB peripherals + power passthrough.
Without unplugging my monitor, I could do..

MacBook Pro M1
1. USB-C > Apple adapter > HDMI out + power passthrough
2. USB-C > Soho > USB peripherals

ChromeBook only outputs 4K/60Hz via Displayport, whereas I believe MacBook M1 will output the same 4K/60Hz signal via both Displayport and HDMI?

However, I'm hardly getting much value out of the Soho by doing this...
I haven't tested the SOHO dock's HDMI but with a Belkin USB-C to HDMI adapter I got 4K60fps HDMI. The SOHO dock is spec'd for 4k60fps.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
Yeah, my issue is that I also use a PixelBook Go - and it required DP to get 4K/60.
I meant to use the Apple USB-C power adapter to power the SOHO PD passthrough. Seems to solve all your problems. I have a hard time believing that docks using an Apple PD adapter with a USB-C PD dock are going to be a general problem. A few reports out of several hundred thousand devices shipped strikes me as a likely manufacturing defect more than a general problem.
 

alexjholland

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
I meant to use the Apple USB-C power adapter to power the SOHO PD passthrough. Seems to solve all your problems. I have a hard time believing that docks using an Apple PD adapter with a USB-C PD dock are going to be a general problem. A few reports out of several hundred thousand devices shipped strikes me as a likely manufacturing defect more than a general problem.
I get you.

If I send power to the Soho dock with Apple's official power supply, then how can the Soho use this power to break my laptop?

You think the issue might lie with the power supplies these users have plugged into their USB-C socks?
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
I get you.

If I send power to the Soho dock with Apple's official power supply, then how can the Soho use this power to break my laptop?

You think the issue might lie with the power supplies these users have plugged into their USB-C socks?
More likely a manufacturing defect on the on-board power supply of the MacBooks. Theoretically, if the third-party power delivery didn't meet the spec, then it just wouldn't work with the MacBook. I would expect at least some hardware protection on the part of the MacBook. But if there is a manufacturing defect on the MacBook that occurs occasionally that isn't detected by QC testing, then a failure could happen even if everything is well within spec. That doesn't mean it is common. These failures are well within the warranty period which is why there is a manufacturer warranty.
 

alexjholland

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
More likely a manufacturing defect on the on-board power supply of the MacBooks. Theoretically, if the third-party power delivery didn't meet the spec, then it just wouldn't work with the MacBook. I would expect at least some hardware protection on the part of the MacBook. But if there is a manufacturing defect on the MacBook that occurs occasionally that isn't detected by QC testing, then a failure could happen even if everything is well within spec. That doesn't mean it is common. These failures are well within the warranty period which is why there is a manufacturer warranty.
In a way, I'd rather my MacBook failed earlier, rather than it was handled carefully and then died due to a manufacturing error, outside the warranty.
 

abhi182

macrumors regular
Apr 24, 2016
173
121
I really wouldn't worry about it especially with the SOHO dock since you can use an Apple adapter for the PD passthrough. There have been a few reports about this but Apple has probably shipped 1 million or more M1 Macs so far. That is a very small percentage of users that have had a problem.
Not necessarily considering a majority of laptop users don’t really use a hub, let alone a PD hub..

Within that small percentage, many would be using the official apple adapter so you are looking at an even smaller subset.

Just within this thread, there seem to be several references to failed units - so very empirically, there does seem to be some correlation between pd passthrough and possible power surges.

Also, PD is a lot more complex than regular barrel charging as there is a complex negotiation between the charger and device to agree on the voltage (that can be 5v/9v/15v/20v)
So even a software mismatch can cause a possible scenario where the device was expecting say 9v (and up convert it on board) while the charger interpreted it as an ask for 20v..

IMO, not worth risking it (and going through the painful return/repair process) if it can be avoided till there is further clarity on this.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
Not necessarily considering a majority of laptop users don’t really use a hub, let alone a PD hub..

Within that small percentage, many would be using the official apple adapter so you are looking at an even smaller subset.

Just within this thread, there seem to be several references to failed units - so very empirically, there does seem to be some correlation between pd passthrough and possible power surges.

Also, PD is a lot more complex than regular barrel charging as there is a complex negotiation between the charger and device to agree on the voltage (that can be 5v/9v/15v/20v)
So even a software mismatch can cause a possible scenario where the device was expecting say 9v (and up convert it on board) while the charger interpreted it as an ask for 20v..

IMO, not worth risking it (and going through the painful return/repair process) if it can be avoided till there is further clarity on this.
With only 2 ports and the widespread adoption of USB-C/Thunderbolt monitors that supply PD, I'm going with a significant number of people use monitors, docks, and hubs with PD. Hundreds of thousands at least. Four or five reports on MacRumors isn't significant.
 
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abhi182

macrumors regular
Apr 24, 2016
173
121
With only 2 ports and the widespread adoption of USB-C/Thunderbolt monitors that supply PD, I'm going with a significant number of people use monitors, docks, and hubs with PD. Hundreds of thousands at least. Four or five reports on MacRumors isn't significant.
so let’s say a 100,000 users within a couple of months of launch- and the device is not even widely available
We have :
- 3 users referenced in a single post on this page itself
- multiple user reports scattered over the boards - let’s say 10?

Majority of users with a failure on a new device will simply return it to the point of purchase..
Only a small fraction of them would report it on forums
A subset of those will report it on macrumors - so I don’t know, say 1% of affected users?

Even conservatively speaking, that would indicate that the numbers may not be widespread but statistically significant enough to imply a possible correlation .
With scattered reports, it is hard to hazard a guess as to what combination leads to this but passthrough PD seems to be the common element.

It could very well be a software issue (hopefully) with the charge controller chip
It could be something else entirely..Or I could be completely wrong and it is indeed a random event not connected to PD at all.

But unless I were living in close proximity of an apple store and am OK with possible delays in repair/replacement, I would rather avoid passthrough and use a 2 cable solution (which adds say 10 extra seconds to my workflow) till there is some more clarity on this
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
so let’s say a 100,000 users within a couple of months of launch- and the device is not even widely available
We have :
- 3 users referenced in a single post on this page itself
- multiple user reports scattered over the boards - let’s say 10?

Majority of users with a failure on a new device will simply return it to the point of purchase..
Only a small fraction of them would report it on forums
A subset of those will report it on macrumors - so I don’t know, say 1% of affected users?

Even conservatively speaking, that would indicate that the numbers may not be widespread but statistically significant enough to imply a possible correlation .
With scattered reports, it is hard to hazard a guess as to what combination leads to this but passthrough PD seems to be the common element.

It could very well be a software issue (hopefully) with the charge controller chip
It could be something else entirely..Or I could be completely wrong and it is indeed a random event not connected to PD at all.

But unless I were living in close proximity of an apple store and am OK with possible delays in repair/replacement, I would rather avoid passthrough and use a 2 cable solution (which adds say 10 extra seconds to my workflow) till there is some more clarity on this
1% of 1,000,000 sold would be 10,000. I think we would have heard if 10,000 users had catastrophic failures. Apple sells over 4 million Macs a quarter. They sell more notebooks than anything else. I have to guess that the number of M1 Macs sold is well over 1 million.
 
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abhi182

macrumors regular
Apr 24, 2016
173
121
1% of 1,000,000 sold would be 10,000. I think we would have heard if 10,000 users had catastrophic failures. Apple sells over 4 million Macs a quarter. They sell more notebooks than anything else. I have to guess that the number of M1 Macs sold is well over 1 million.
Yeah, but I did not use the total sales as the denominator - but only the subset that uses a PD passthrough dongle - hundreds of thousands as you surmised..

And yes, M1 is selling well but a) it is still been only a few months and b) Availability - esp outside the USA has been spotty
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,859
4,599
Yeah, but I did not use the total sales as the denominator - but only the subset that uses a PD passthrough dongle - hundreds of thousands as you surmised..

And yes, M1 is selling well but a) it is still been only a few months and b) Availability - esp outside the USA has been spotty
Apple in Q1 2020 sold 3.2 million Macs. They average more like 4 million, quarter 1 last year was 20% off. The M1 Macs have been available since Nov 17, 2020. That is 9 weeks. A quarter is 13 weeks. That means that on average, Apple would have sold about 2.75 million Macs in 9 weeks of a quarter. I suspect that 1 million M1s sold is quite a low estimate.

As for how many are using a monitor, dock, or hub with PD, I think it will be significantly higher than 100,000. There are still not enough reports for me to get nervous.
 
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MattMJB0188

macrumors 68020
Dec 28, 2009
2,032
583
This is a very good dock that played nice with the M1 and gives you the option to use more than one external display. Only issue is, the mouse performance wasn't as good as running natively - but this may not be a dealbreaker for everyone.

 

alexjholland

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Gotta say I've heard more references to damage via power delivery with this M1 than any other device.

It seems to be a new phenomenon.

But - logically - it seems to make more sense to use mine 'normally' and see if it breaks within the first 12 months, which is when Apple treats you like royalty.

If I baby it, and then it breaks in year 2-3 and a 17-year-old Apple Store manager spits in my eyes and insults my mother (standard Apple response outside 12 months) then I'll be displeased.
 
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