iPad Who else 'downgraded' from a Pro to an Air but returned it within the hour?

[Macintosh101]

Tbh, 60fps looks really bad on iphones and ipads. Seems to be just fine on my mba and my cinema display. Really odd. I think apple does it on purpose.

I’ve noticed this too. I actually prefer using my MacBook Air over my Mini-Led promotion MacBook Pro. I barely notice the Air has a 60hz refresh rate. But as you say, I really notice 60hz on an iPad or iPhone. Is the reason for this perhaps that we use iPhone and iPad screens closer to our eyes, and tend to do a lot more scrolling on them?

 

[Jim Lahey]

Is the reason for this perhaps that we use iPhone and iPad screens closer to our eyes, and tend to do a lot more scrolling on them?

It's probably attributable in part to varying pixel response times. Faster response times reduce motion blur but can increase judder. Slower response times can make lower frame rates appear smoother because the transitions are blurred. At the extremis we have the mini-LED Pro Motion displays that are 120hz but have comical pixel response times, so while the frame rates appear fluid, detail in motion is smeared.

 

[Elusi]

I am in the camp of thinking 120hz is nice but not a necessity. But when price and refurbed units of old Pros enters the equation the iPad Air just doesn’t look all that attractive.

It’d be as the cheapest entry point for the new Apple Pencil. If that is important, sure. Otherwise, check for deals on older Pros imo.

The air has had this identity crisis since the 3rd gen. Back then you could even find brand new 2017 iPP for the same price as the 2019 Air, and save for some specific benchmark scenarios the 2017 Pro was better in so many ways. To this day both still receive software support.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

It does seem like its a case where Apple is leaving it out to increase the gap between the Air and the Pro, and not because there is a significant cost for providing the feature. Now that the Pro model is OLED, it would be a good time to bring 120 Hz LCD to the mid-level option.

Seem?

Apple does this across all its product line-ups. It couldn't be more obvious.

The exact same reason why there's no Face ID in iPad Air, no Thunderbolt, no four-speaker model, no high-end Magic Keyboard.

This is a basic premise of Apple products, how is anyone second guessing the intentions behind these glaring differences in the different product tiers?

You also think no Pencil 2 or Pencil Pro support on 10th Gen. iPad "seems" like something Apple does to get you to spend more on an Air or Pro?

There's no guessing. It's as apparent as it can be.

 

[MajorFubar]

Happy with my iPad 9 tbh. For what I use it for, which is mainly watching YouTube videos late at night before sleep, anything better would be a waste, in so far as the fundamental problems I personally have with iPads don't go away if I was to spend more.

 

[Jensend]

Seem?

Apple does this across all its product line-ups. It couldn't be more obvious.

The exact same reason why there's no Face ID in iPad Air, no Thunderbolt, no four-speaker model, no high-end Magic Keyboard.

This is a basic premise of Apple products, how is anyone second guessing the intentions behind these glaring differences in the different product tiers?

You also think no Pencil 2 or Pencil Pro support on 10th Gen. iPad "seems" like something Apple does to get you to spend more on an Air or Pro?

There's no guessing. It's as apparent as it can be.

I'd guess that moving from Touch ID to Face ID has significantly higher component costs than moving from 60 Hz to 120 Hz. This intuition is partly based on the fact that almost all Android phones have higher than 60 Hz displays these days, but none have depth sensors.

Four speakers instead of two doubles the cost of speaker components.

Some of the Pencil technology is in the iPad itself. I don't know how much more expensive those components are. I've use a few Wacom products over the years, and I know that even when they have styluses that look identical they don't support the same tablets.

I just think keeping the midrange iPads at 60 Hz is more tilted towards product differentiation than component cost when compared to other decisions, like the ones you've listed.

I use the word "seems" because I don't know Apple's component costs.

 

[Alex Cai]

Pro Motion is the only reason I have a Pro. Apple know this. It’s actually scandalous how the Air has been held back. It’s supposed to be mid range technology not base level.

We would all sit happily with an iPad Air at 120hz. Apple wants to get more revenue by calling 120hz “Promotion” and bundling it with a bunch of overkill and overpriced features we would never want.

 

[Sami13496]

Many harsh comments. Why criticize the Air just because you prefer the Pro? Do you derive pleasure from making others feel bad about their device, even if they are otherwise satisfied with it? Sounds more like you're trying to justify your own purchase of the iPad Pro desperately. If you were confident in your choice, you wouldn't need to criticize other models that are also good in their own category and the best choice for users who specifically wanted that.

Just to be clear, I don’t own any iPad.

 

[darthbane2k]

Many harsh comments. Why criticize the Air just because you prefer the Pro? Do you derive pleasure from making others feel bad about their device, even if they are otherwise satisfied with it? Sounds more like you're trying to justify your own purchase of the iPad Pro desperately. If you were confident in your choice, you wouldn't need to criticize other models that are also good in their own category and the best choice for users who specifically wanted that.

Just to be clear, I don’t own any iPad.

The Air is a perfectly capable device and the iPad that would suit most people. It’s Apple who have hampered it with a 60hz display. This was a commercial decision on their part.

 

[Sami13496]

The Air is a perfectly capable device and the iPad that would suit most people. It’s Apple who have hampered it with a 60hz display. This was a commercial decision on their part.

For those who care about 120hz. I know it might be hard to believe but average user really doesn’t care. It’s the enthusiasts who care (and get mad about it). I think Dave2D sums it up pretty well in this video (from 8:47)

 

[cardfan]

I am in the camp of thinking 120hz is nice but not a necessity. But when price and refurbed units of old Pros enters the equation the iPad Air just doesn’t look all that attractive.

It’d be as the cheapest entry point for the new Apple Pencil. If that is important, sure. Otherwise, check for deals on older Pros imo.

The air has had this identity crisis since the 3rd gen. Back then you could even find brand new 2017 iPP for the same price as the 2019 Air, and save for some specific benchmark scenarios the 2017 Pro was better in so many ways. To this day both still receive software support.

Yep. People are dumping their m1 pros off to Apple for like 510 and less for the 11. Any of these beat an iPad Air. No contest. Along with their magic kbs and pencils that can’t be used on new pros.

 

[Rychiar]

Seriously, when a 6-year-old iPad Pro looks better than a new Air that's a problem. ProMotion is *that* good and *that* necessary. Not sure how I ever thought I could do without it.

I must be the only person who doesn’t really notice promotion

 

[mattopotamus]

It's very difficult going back, that's for sure. I was configuring an iPhone without ProMotion for a friend, and I was kind of stunned at how unsmooth everything felt. ProMotion has definitely spoiled me.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple held it back from the Air to keep Pro sales up for existing Pro customers, but maybe there are technical or cost reasons.

My exact experience. I never noticed how blurry and laggy older iPhones were until I started using the pro. I will never buy an iPhone/iPad without pro motion.

 

[CalMin]

Agree. I really notice ProMotion on the iPhone and iPad - I think it's do with the touch/scroll/flick nature of the interaction. It doesn't somehow make any difference on my 14" MacBook Pro which I find odd, because I hate using a 60hz Phone or iPad.

Yep - Apple sure knows what they are doing with the pricing ladder here. I think I would be ok with the 13" Air as a replacement for my 2018 iPad Pro if it had ProMotion. It's used mostly as a notepad which even the base spec. iPad can do. As things stand, I'm going to wait in the sidelines a little longer.

 

[transpo1]

Ya I think the average consumer just doesn't care. People are looking at the Air and Pro side by side in the store and for some reason the Air is still selling. Most don't care. I'm sure Apple has data on this.

It's one of those differences that most people only feel intuitively, not consciously. And they're not going to get into the nitty-gritty of the technologies and discuss it like we do here. Furthermore, even if they do notice consciously, now that there's such a large price difference between the models, most are never going to pay more for the better display tech anyway. Which is why Apple still makes an iPad Air. 😊

 

[FrozenDarkness]

Also, just to flip this on its head, I think apple *wants* you to buy the more expensive item. Apple probably has data that promotion does matter.

 

[MrGimper]

Indeed. I bought a new iPad mini as well 2 days ago. Great form-factor but I am going to certainly sell it off/trade it for 120Hz or even 90Hz screen whenever Apple releases Gen 7.

I did that with the mini 6 on launch. It lasted a day because jelly and no pro-motion did me in.

 

[nmart1214]

I’ve had plenty of experience demoing iPads to people on a daily basis before I got into technical support. Most every day regular people could never tell the difference between the displays on the Pro and the Air.

I know it’s hard for some people to believe, but MOST people don’t care about specs or the tech involved. They care about what they can get new, immediately at that moment, and for a good price.

 

[PaperMag]

But then again so are 120hz mini-LED MacBook screens with a one hour pixel response time.

I actually loled at this.

I was just thinking how no reviewers (I ever saw) mention it outside of Dave2D and notebookcheck. The Apple-ecosystem reviewers don't even know what pixel response time is. It's been 3 years and they still think ProMotion is perfect.

 

[turbineseaplane]

High refresh is subjectively important -- but I absolutely love it

I run 120hz for macOS and Windows and it's so great

Don't have it on my iPhone 13 Mini or iPad Mini 5, but sure wish I did.

 

[PaperMag]

Seem?

Apple does this across all its product line-ups. It couldn't be more obvious.

The exact same reason why there's no Face ID in iPad Air, no Thunderbolt, no four-speaker model, no high-end Magic Keyboard.

This is a basic premise of Apple products, how is anyone second guessing the intentions behind these glaring differences in the different product tiers?

You also think no Pencil 2 or Pencil Pro support on 10th Gen. iPad "seems" like something Apple does to get you to spend more on an Air or Pro?

There's no guessing. It's as apparent as it can be.

It does seem like theres a difference between the feature sets of the MacBook Air and the more expensive MacBook Pros. Has anyone confirmed that Apple is doing that on purpose? I don't like speculating without proof.

 

[dmr727]

High refresh is subjectively important -- but I absolutely love it

I run 120hz for macOS and Windows and it's so great

Don't have it on my iPhone 13 Mini or iPad Mini 5, but sure wish I did.

I consider my 15 Pro to be the most expensive Apple device I've ever purchased, because it ruined me for higher refresh rates. Everything I buy (Apple or otherwise) from here on out will need to be 120Hz or higher.

 

[klasma]

You also think no Pencil 2 or Pencil Pro support on 10th Gen.

That one is actually justified, because the Pencil 2 can’t attach due to the landscape camera, and both it and the Pencil Pro would require the charging hardware which is a cost factor.

Of course, they could still make the Pencil function on the screen, but if they declare it compatible, then people buying it will complain that they can’t attach it or need separate charging hardware that Apple doesn’t provide.

What can be criticized is that they removed pressure sensitivity from the USB-C Pencil.

 

[familychoice]

One of the first things I noticed when upgrading from an Air 2, to an Air 4 was how text blurred when scrolling. Not sure if the Air 2 had a higher refresh rate, but I’d not noticed it before.

 

[turbineseaplane]

One of the first things I noticed when upgrading from an Air 2, to an Air 4 was how text blurred when scrolling. Not sure if the Air 2 had a higher refresh rate, but I’d not noticed it before.

I think the Bean Counter CEO has been pruning the quality of the screens here and there (on anything not the top of the line)