Who else is holding out for a new 27 inch iMac?

[sam_dean]

Interesting article on 9-5mac.com today: https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/09/apples-most-popular-mac/
Turns out the Studio and Mac Mini are niche products compared to the iMac which outsold them by an order of magnitude in the September quarter. Another big surprise, for me, is how well the Mac Pro did. Is Apple leaving a ton of money on the table by not having a larger iMac available for sale? (Rhetorical question).

80/20 rule at work.

What I find weird is how little Mac mini sells. Mac Studio sells as expected. Mac Pro sells too well?

I would think that June 2022 release of the M2 chip to push more units of the Macbook Air.

All the other units are on the M1 series of chips and really old Intel chips from 2019

 

[theluggage]

What I find weird is how little Mac mini sells. Mac Studio sells as expected. Mac Pro sells too well?

When a study gives a weird result like that - $6000++ Mac Pro greatly outselling the Mini and nearly matching the $1300 iMac the first thing you do is go back and check the data.

Unfortunately, in this case, the data is paywalled and all we have is news sites regurgitating the result without questioning it. Wake me up when this one is independently replicated.

It doesn’t have to be an outright mistake (like swapping the pro and Mini figures, although that would explain everything)- the sample could be skewed to specialist pro suppliers, leasing companies, or a small number of suppliers one of whom has a large contract to supply Mac Pros. It probably does exclude the Apple store (I’m sure Apple don’t hand out that data) so it excludes what is likely the biggest single source of sales. It could also cover the period when everyone was expecting a new Mini. It could even bear right - but we don’t know because we can’t check.

 

[sam_dean]

When a study gives a weird result like that - $6000++ Mac Pro greatly outselling the Mini and nearly matching the $1300 iMac the first thing you do is go back and check the data.

Unfortunately, in this case, the data is paywalled and all we have is news sites regurgitating the result without questioning it. Wake me up when this one is independently replicated.

It doesn’t have to be an outright mistake (like swapping the pro and Mini figures, although that would explain everything)- the sample could be skewed to specialist pro suppliers, leasing companies, or a small number of suppliers one of whom has a large contract to supply Mac Pros. It probably does exclude the Apple store (I’m sure Apple don’t hand out that data) so it excludes what is likely the biggest single source of sales. It could also cover the period when everyone was expecting a new Mini. It could even bear right - but we don’t know because we can’t check.

I have no objections to ~80% laptops & ~20% desktops.


That has been roughly the ratio worldwide for the whole PC industry for the last 2 decades or more. That's a reason why Steve had to ditch PPC for Intel as it appears that Motorola could not move to a more modern node like Intel could do prior in the mid 00s.

History repeated itself in 2014-2020 when Intel got stuck at 14nm to cut manufacturing capex and increase shareholders value.

In my mind Apple Inc's actual production run would look like this

Laptops

- ~80%: MBA & MBP 13"
- ~20%: MBP 14"/16"

Desktops

- ~80%: Mac mini
- ~15%: iMac 24"
- ~3%: Mac Studio
- ~1%: Mac Pro

Chips

- ~80%: M1 or M2
- ~19%: Pro or Max
- ~1%: Ultra

 

[jayfromnova]

The attraction of the 27" iMac to me is the excellent 5K screen. All in one is nice, but I could live with a Mini or studio if the pricing of the 27" 5K screen was reasonable. There are no reasonable ones, yet. CES introduced a few, but none with pricing. I'm waiting for that, and then perhaps an M2 Mini + screen would suffice.

 

[theluggage]

I have no objections to ~80% laptops & ~20% desktops.

That's not the objection & sounds about right.

The issue is the claim that 43% of desktop sales were Mac Pros vs. 4% for Mac Mini & 4% for Studio. I.e. the $6000 minimum Mac Pro was outselling both the $700 Mini and $2000 Mac Studios by a factor of 10. That's a surprising claim which requires confirmation.

 

[sam_dean]

That's not the objection & sounds about right.

The issue is the claim that 43% of desktop sales were Mac Pros vs. 4% for Mac Mini & 4% for Studio. I.e. the $6000 minimum Mac Pro was outselling both the $700 Mini and $2000 Mac Studios by a factor of 10. That's a surprising claim which requires confirmation.

IKR... like in what parallel universe did that figure come from?

Are they sampling dealers who specialize in making super clusters from Intel Macs?

 

[jayfromnova]

They make a decent case for this combo. I guess now I'm wondering if it's worth waiting for a new version of the Studio Display that has better camera hardware? https://9to5mac.com/2023/01/18/27-inch-imac/

 

[Gudi]

They make a decent case for this combo. I guess now I'm wondering if it's worth waiting for a new version of the Studio Display that has better camera hardware?

Again, the last 27" iMac had a starting price of $1,799 and the next large iMac will also be much cheaper than buying everything separately.

$1,299 Mac mini with M2 Pro
$1,599 Studio Display
$149 Magic Keyboard with Touch ID
$129 Magic Trackpad
$79 Magic Mouse

 

[icemantx]

Again, the last 27" iMac had a starting price of $1,799 and the next large iMac will also be much cheaper than buying everything separately.

$1,299 Mac mini with M2 Pro
$1,599 Studio Display
$149 Magic Keyboard with Touch ID
$129 Magic Trackpad
$79 Magic Mouse

View attachment 2154364

This could be one reason they don’t bring it back anytime soon. To have hold outs spend more on separate pieces of equipment and upgrade more often because everything is not built into the monitor with a Mac Mini + ASD.

I just recently caved and bought a Mac mini M2 Pro with the Apple Studio Display because I didn’t want to keep chugging along with my late 2014 iMac forever. I had been waiting for a new apple silicon based 27 inch iMac, but they simply never released it and who knows if they ever will.

 

[Gudi]

I just recently caved and bought a Mac mini M2 Pro with the Apple Studio Display, because I didn’t want to keep chugging along with my late 2014 iMac forever. I had been waiting for a new apple silicon based 27 inch iMac, but they simply never released it and who knows if they ever will.

So you didn't buy a $1,999 Mac Studio + $1,599 Studio Display, only because the Mac mini (2020) had no M1 Pro version. Some people suggested back then, this was going to be the only way from now on to get a powerful Mac desktop with a large screen. Eventually Apple will come around to fill all the gaps in the lineup. Most of the waiting time for a large iMac is already over and then we'll start waiting for a good price. 😂

 

[HDFan]

I guess now I'm wondering if it's worth waiting for a new version of the Studio Display that has better camera hardware?

What's wrong with the camera hardware? Mine works fine. You can always use your iPhone as a continuity camera if you want higher quality, but may not be worth it on a zoom call.

 

[sam_dean]

This could be one reason they don’t bring it back anytime soon. To have hold outs spend more on separate pieces of equipment and upgrade more often because everything is not built into the monitor with a Mac Mini + ASD.

I just recently caved and bought a Mac mini M2 Pro with the Apple Studio Display because I didn’t want to keep chugging along with my late 2014 iMac forever. I had been waiting for a new apple silicon based 27 inch iMac, but they simply never released it and who knows if they ever will.

I'm sticking it out until June.

 

[icemantx]

So you didn't buy a $1,999 Mac Studio + $1,599 Studio Display, only because the Mac mini (2020) had no M1 Pro version. Some people suggested back then, this was going to be the only way from now on to get a powerful Mac desktop with a large screen. Eventually Apple will come around to fill all the gaps in the lineup. Most of the waiting time for a large iMac is already over and then we'll start waiting for a good price. 😂

When the Mac Mini M1 came out in 2020, there was no ASD. By the time the Apple Studio came out, the Mac Mini was already rumored to be updated to M2 Pro so I waited until it was released.

For my use case, this is the right decision. I also did not want to pay hundreds more for the Max Studio M1 Max. In addition, I purchased the ASD from Costco for $1299.

 

[Gudi]

By the time the Apple Studio came out, the Mac Mini was already rumored to be updated to M2 Pro so I waited until it was released.

Rumors are just guesses and wishes. Unless there are actual leaks, you can't build on them. I myself have heavily rumored both the Mac mini Pro as well as a new large iMac on the basis of ... it would make sense to me. 🤷

 

[icemantx]

Rumors are just guesses and wishes. Unless there are actual leaks, you can't build on them. I myself have heavily rumored both the Mac mini Pro as well as a new large iMac on the basis of ... it would make sense to me. 🤷

Put it this way... The M2 Pro Mac Mini + Studio Display is a major upgrade for me coming from a late 2014 iMac 5k i5. Could I have kept waiting and waiting and waiting until 2024, 2025 or later? Sure, but then I am stuck with a computer that chokes on 4k video and soon will not get further security updates.

The "rumors" regarding the M2/M2 Pro Mac Mini came from credible sources (Gurman, Quo, etc...). There have not been any credible rumors or leaks that point to a 27" or larger iMac "Pro" recently.

If an iMac "Pro" comes out anytime soon that will be great for those who continue to wait. For me, I will be happy with my new setup and will have one big advantage over my old iMac. I can swap out the Mac Mini for a new one or even an updated Mac Studio at a later time while keeping the monitor for a long time.

There is no wrong decision for either buying now or waiting longer if what you have still serves your purpose. For me, my iMac has lived out its life and now it is time for something up to date (M2 Pro Mac Mini + ASD) for my needs.

 

[Gudi]

The "rumors" regarding the M2/M2 Pro Mac Mini came from credible sources (Gurman, Quo, etc...). There have not been any credible rumors or leaks that point to a 27" or larger iMac "Pro" recently.

You mean this Ming-Chi Quo? Let's hope he's right on his second prediction too.

 

[icemantx]

You mean this Ming-Chi Quo? Let's hope he's right on his second prediction too.
View attachment 2154938

It has been crickets since then… For everyone waiting, hopefully the wait will end.

 

[Gudi]

It has been crickets since then… For everyone waiting, hopefully the wait will end.

Nonetheless the more powerful Mac mini arrived in January. There’s no point in repeating a prediction unless you get to know something new, which makes it more or less likely.

 

[Hombre53]

I replaced my late 2013 27" iMac with a 2020 27" iMac/Apple refurb this past December. Couldn't be happier.

 

[Jorbanead]

It has been crickets since then… For everyone waiting, hopefully the wait will end.

AFAIK Kuo doesn’t often predict imminent things. I believe he generally sticks to things that are further out.

For the larger iMac, I think it has been on and off the table many times. The chip and display shortages and issues in the industry, plus general Covid-related issues, I think put the larger iMac on the back burner.

I think Apples plan is to make the large iMac the “iMac Pro” as Kuo has said. Im willing to go as far as saying in an ideal world, Apple wants the iMac Pro to come with a 5K XDR ProMotion display, and the Ultra chip. That’s hard to do in an iMac. A 5K miniLED 144Hz screen, plus a big beefy chip that requires a lot of cooling. Apple wasn’t even able to put ProMotion or miniLED into the studio display yet. I think they’re having a hard time with that.

I also think Apple isn’t going to make the ultra chip every year (as many pointed out it likely accounts for ~1% of Mac sales so it’s not worth the RnD every generation). Since we are now on 2nd gen M chips, we may have to wait until M3 Ultra.

I think Apple saw this coming, and created the Mac Studio as a placeholder (the Ultra chip was already in the pipeline years ago, as they work on these chips ~3 years in advanced.) They may also use the studio as a testing ground to see how well the studio+display sell. I think all of this is why the larger iMac has been on and off the table. The tech is hard, the supply chains aren’t there yet, and now they’re past the M1 Ultra window so they need to wait until M3 Ultra. Plus the studio may have done better than expected which would reduce the need for a larger iMac.

Just my guess. But would explain why we got some iMac rumors awhile back, and now we haven’t heard anything.

 

[bobcomer]

Nope - bought a Mac Studio M1 Max 10-32-16 with 64GB and 4TB SSD.

Very pleased so far. Will hand my 2019 iMac down.

I actually already owned a Mac Studio Max, but just went and bought an Apple refurbed 2020 iMac. They had a good sale and I really needed the x86 compatibility for VM's. I added 3rd party RAM and I must say I'm the happiest with what I have as I have been in a long time. The monitor itself is enough of a reason.

 

[MacPowerLvr]

I waited ten years, using a 2011 27", Quad-Core i7, 32GB of RAM, and 2TB SSD, but it is so old, that I couldn't upgrade past El Capitan, and even Safari was out of Date. I was hoping for a M-Series 27" iMac replacement, but even though I didn't have Speed-complaints, I was too far behind in capabilities and Features. I bought a 27", 10-Core 3.6 Ghz, i9 Intel, 16GB XT 5700 Graphics, Nano-Texture Screen,8 TB SSD, and upgraded my own RAM to 64GB. It is a Monster that is Fast, Silent most of the time has a great Screen, so I no longer will worry about when or if Apple is going to Replace or Upgrade the 27" iMac. I couldn't wait any longer, but now, and at least until 3years of Apple Care Plus lasts, I won't care.

 

[aibo]

I waited ten years, using a 2011 27", Quad-Core i7, 32GB of RAM, and 2TB SSD, but it is so old, that I couldn't upgrade past El Capitan, and even Safari was out of Date. I was hoping for a M-Series 27" iMac replacement, but even though I didn't have Speed-complaints, I was too far behind in capabilities and Features. I bought a 27", 10-Core 3.6 Ghz, i9 Intel, 16GB XT 5700 Graphics, Nano-Texture Screen,8 TB SSD, and upgraded my own RAM to 64GB. It is a Monster that is Fast, Silent most of the time has a great Screen, so I no longer will worry about when or if Apple is going to Replace or Upgrade the 27" iMac. I couldn't wait any longer, but now, and at least until 3years of Apple Care Plus lasts, I won't care.

Yikes, you bought an Intel Mac in 2023? Though you might have AppleCare as a hardware warranty and receive security updates for the next 3 years, I wouldn't be surprised if the major OS releases over the next couple years exclude Intel. Apple said years ago that this transition away from Intel was imminent, and it's nearly done.

As far as the hardware, an i9 10-Core with 64GB sounds like a beast, but even $15,000 Mac Pros with better specs than yours are getting circles run around them by the latest M2 Pros.

 

[bobcomer]

Yikes, you bought an Intel Mac in 2023? Though you might have AppleCare as a hardware warranty and receive security updates for the next 3 years, I wouldn't be surprised if the major OS releases over the next couple years exclude Intel. Apple said years ago that this transition away from Intel was imminent, and it's nearly done.

I did too, last week believe it or not. Typing on it right now and am extremely happy. I don't particularly care if it gets OS updates or not.

As far as the hardware, an i9 10-Core with 64GB sounds like a beast, but even $15,000 Mac Pros with better specs than yours are getting circles run around them by the latest M2 Pros.

Mine an 8 core i7 with 128G of RAM (added the RAM myself). Yeah, it's slower, but not nearly by as much as you think. I have other machines that are faster, a Studio Max and a i9 Windows desktop, but I like the Intel iMac better. I need x86 VM's and I absolutely love the display and sound of the iMac, what can I say. I bought this because I wasn't happy with the other machines...

 

[MacPowerLvr]

Yikes, you bought an Intel Mac in 2023? Though you might have AppleCare as a hardware warranty and receive security updates for the next 3 years, I wouldn't be surprised if the major OS releases over the next couple years exclude Intel. Apple said years ago that this transition away from Intel was imminent, and it's nearly done.

As far as the hardware, an i9 10-Core with 64GB sounds like a beast, but even $15,000 Mac Pros with better specs than yours are getting circles run around them by the latest M2 Pros.

Apple has not indicated whether they will release an update to the 27” iMac, which goes back to whether I want a Large Screen-Real Estate iMac, or be force to buy something other than what I WANT, when I’ve waited 10 years, and Apple promised years of updates and Security patches. Should everyone with Intel Macs throw them in the garbage, sell them, or give them away? What are/were we getting our work done with, before the M-Series Macs came out. I recently replaced my 17” Mac Book Pro, and I got tired of waiting for a replacement that was larger than 15 inches, and thank God Apple listened to its Customers, and came out with another screen larger than 15”, and they assured us that they would, and I was able to get an M1 Max, but my Co-Workers were using Windows Computers to do CAD/CAM, Robotics, Research, and so on, so why is it risky to get a i9 Intel Chip? The recent tests show that in some Tests and Benchmarks, Intel Desktop Chips are right there with Apple’s M1 or M2 Chips, especially in the Graphics areas, and Multi-Core benchmark, so I know that I won’t Tax my i9 Chip most of the time, even using Adobe Creative Cloud, Lightroom, and Illustrator. I can go fast with a 180 m.p.h. Corvette, a 195 m.p.h. Corvette, or a 200+ m.p.h. Corvette, but I wouldn’t sell a newer 2018 for the newest one, unless you HAVE TOHAVE IT RIGHT AWAY, or your money is heating up your Pockets. Everything Apple made in the last 7 years, was faster than my last Quad-Core Macs, so I Max them out, and use them until I need, or want a New Mac, and I read about and enjoy seeing the yearly improvements, but until I can’t do what I need to do, or it takes me too long to do my Work/Fun, I don’t have Fear Of Missing Out.