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jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
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SoCal
Another classic form over function design mess. What's wrong with indicator stalks?
yep, it's something everyone in the world is used to ...

though it's funny, I grew up in Germany and been to the UK quite a bit, but besides sitting on the right side of the car, driving on the left side, your clutch is/was in it's usual place, the indicator stalk etc ... then I went to Australia in the early 90s, rented a car, drive on the left side (no big deal), but, but, the indicator stalk was on the other side of the steering wheel, so the right hand side, and on the left hand side was the stalk for the wipers. I was there in Dec/Jan, so their summer, nd there were quite a few cars with their wipers running while the sky was blue ;)
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
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Behind the Lens, UK
yep, it's something everyone in the world is used to ...

though it's funny, I grew up in Germany and been to the UK quite a bit, but besides sitting on the right side of the car, driving on the left side, your clutch is/was in it's usual place, the indicator stalk etc ... then I went to Australia in the early 90s, rented a car, drive on the left side (no big deal), but, but, the indicator stalk was on the other side of the steering wheel, so the right hand side, and on the left hand side was the stalk for the wipers. I was there in Dec/Jan, so their summer, nd there were quite a few cars with their wipers running while the sky was blue ;)
The orientation of the indicator storks isn’t country specific, but model specific. We used to have a Toyota pickup at work that was the wrong way round.
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
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UK
yep, it's something everyone in the world is used to ...

though it's funny, I grew up in Germany and been to the UK quite a bit, but besides sitting on the right side of the car, driving on the left side, your clutch is/was in it's usual place, the indicator stalk etc ... then I went to Australia in the early 90s, rented a car, drive on the left side (no big deal), but, but, the indicator stalk was on the other side of the steering wheel, so the right hand side, and on the left hand side was the stalk for the wipers. I was there in Dec/Jan, so their summer, nd there were quite a few cars with their wipers running while the sky was blue ;)
Yes, that is an Asian car manufacturer thing with the indicator stalk on the different side. Luckily, never the kind of cars I'd even consider buying, not even renting. Although I can see some logic in it as it could make it easier for one arm driving, a terrible habit, but I can see it can help.

I'm not going to knock Tesla for it, though. I can see that with a lot of their other technology and assisted driving, it actually makes sense to do this in that context. It is very different from doing this on a less smart vehicle.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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I agree that from a driver's perspective, removing the indicator/shifter stalks are not a good user experience. From a cost savings perspective I'm sure there is a HUGE savings.

But I can 100% say, with my TM3/TMY I do not miss any buttons at all. If you only test drive the car, you will walk away from it saying you miss the buttons, but if you actually spend the time it takes to setup your cloud profile, and all personalized settings, the Gen 1 TM3 and current TMY do not lack buttons. I drive my TMY 3 hours a day (weekdays) the car manages everything for me. I use the volume control on the steering wheel, the other one (to control Autopilot/FSD max speed) the indicator and shifter stalk, that's it. That being said, I 100% would miss the stalks.

Tesla is not perfect, they make mistakes. I agree with the video that this is a mistake that users will get used to, but it is not optimal.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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Yes, that is an Asian car manufacturer thing with the indicator stalk on the different side. Luckily, never the kind of cars I'd even consider buying, not even renting. Although I can see some logic in it as it could make it easier for one arm driving, a terrible habit, but I can see it can help.

I'm not going to knock Tesla for it, though. I can see that with a lot of their other technology and assisted driving, it actually makes sense to do this in that context. It is very different from doing this on a less smart vehicle.

I think what you posted here is the most important thing. Tesla's do manage most things for you, and if you do use Autopilot/FSD it manages lane changes (including turning on and off the indicators), lights, and wipers. If the car didn't manage these things, you would end up spending all day digging through the menus, but in reality, you don't because they are managed for you.

I would say about 90% of my driving is under FSDb (Full Self Driving beta). I am in the NYC area, and commute into NYC and back every day.
 
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The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
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So the ban on the sales of new petrol and diesel cars will be delayed 5 years to 2035 here in the UK. I’m not at all surprised as we simply aren’t anywhere near ready for everybody to go fully electric. Allows those of us with EV’s to enjoy the benefits a bit longer than most I suppose.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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So the ban on the sales of new petrol and diesel cars will be delayed 5 years to 2035 here in the UK. I’m not at all surprised as we simply aren’t anywhere near ready for everybody to go fully electric. Allows those of us with EV’s to enjoy the benefits a bit longer than most I suppose.
Very disappointing news. A very sad day for the environment.
I think the infrastructure is pretty good now. If you look at where it was 5 years ago, you could easily have it ready in 5 years.
 
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jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
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SoCal
So the ban on the sales of new petrol and diesel cars will be delayed 5 years to 2035 here in the UK. I’m not at all surprised as we simply aren’t anywhere near ready for everybody to go fully electric. Allows those of us with EV’s to enjoy the benefits a bit longer than most I suppose.
I had read some rumblings about this move a few days ago - was this driven by industry lobbying or what? Can’t be politicians all by themselves, or?
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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I had read some rumblings about this move a few days ago - was this driven by industry lobbying or what? Can’t be politicians all by themselves, or?
Not industry lobbying as far as I can tell. Most of them have complained about the delay as they are investing and gearing up for the change.
Inconsistency is not good for business or the public.
A bit of a moot point as it’s highly unlikely they will be in power come 2030 or 2035 based on their popularity with the public of late.

In other news I got hit in the windscreen by a huge stone driving home. I can’t see a chip, so hopefully my i3 got away with it.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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Very disappointing news. A very sad day for the environment.
I think the infrastructure is pretty good now. If you look at where it was 5 years ago, you could easily have it ready in 5 years.

Not to mention that the fear of a ban of ICEs in the near future drives progress. So even if it doesn't seem like infrastructure would have been ready, when profits are on the table, things move quickly. Hopefully auto manufactures will stick to the original plan, and the infrastructure will continue to progress as originally plan (because of the potential profits).

For example, here in the US, Tesla even without a nationwide ban hanging over them, has been expanding their charging network at full speed. One thing to note, CA has a ban on the table, and CA car sales basically makes or breaks a manufacture, so one could argue we do have a nationwide ban on the table.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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In other news I got hit in the windscreen by a huge stone driving home. I can’t see a chip, so hopefully my i3 got away with it.

I have Windshield Protection Film on both my TM3 and TMY. It was pricy, and does add slight waves to the view, but it is not bad. With the HUGE windshields on Tesla's, I wanted some protection. I have been hit with some large rocks, and the film so far as worked.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
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Wales, United Kingdom
Very disappointing news. A very sad day for the environment.
I think the infrastructure is pretty good now. If you look at where it was 5 years ago, you could easily have it ready in 5 years.

I’m not convinced to be honest. We still need the source to be improved and we are still more than 5 years away from that. We can’t keep assuming France will sub us forever.

When planning weekends away to more rural places we are already finding locations where charging can be a real problem and it’s limiting us. Even Birmingham shocked us when trying to plan the other week, something we’ve called off now. So many hotels without charging and it came down to staying near the NEC which is well away from where we wanted to go. I know it’s improving all the time and I’m sure by 2030 it’ll be twice as easy as it is now.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
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I have Windshield Protection Film on both my TM3 and TMY. It was pricy, and does add slight waves to the view, but it is not bad. With the HUGE windshields on Tesla's, I wanted some protection. I have been hit with some large rocks, and the film so far as worked.
I’ll look into it. I assume you had it professionally installed?
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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I’ll look into it. I assume you had it professionally installed?

I did. I have tinting exemptions for both my vehicles, so I had ceramic tint all around (only the top brow on the windshields). While at it, I had the film installed on both, and the little triangle windows on the rear sides.

Just a note, over time, the windshield film will change colors, which turns out to be grease buildup. So, I use a degreaser to remove it, then clean the windows with window cleaner. It does take away from the look on the outside but is not visible from the inside.

The film is THICK... Because of this, it takes a very skilled installer...
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
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I had read some rumblings about this move a few days ago - was this driven by industry lobbying or what? Can’t be politicians all by themselves, or?

No, the car industry is all in favour of 2030 and it’s a target they’ve been investing for and working towards for some years now. Ford have condemned the news. I’d imagine the sheer cost to the countries purse is what is making those at the top nervous. They live in hope zero emission fuel comes along to ease their burden perhaps.
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,256
7,281
Seattle
I think what you posted here is the most important thing. Tesla's do manage most things for you, and if you do use Autopilot/FSD it manages lane changes (including turning on and off the indicators), lights, and wipers. If the car didn't manage these things, you would end up spending all day digging through the menus, but in reality, you don't because they are managed for you.

I would say about 90% of my driving is under FSDb (Full Self Driving beta). I am in the NYC area, and commute into NYC and back every day.
You are making a huge, unwarranted assumption that we all want to use “FSD”.
 
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jz0309

Contributor
Sep 25, 2018
11,382
30,024
SoCal
No, the car industry is all in favour of 2030 and it’s a target they’ve been investing for and working towards for some years now. Ford have condemned the news. I’d imagine the sheer cost to the countries purse is what is making those at the top nervous. They live in hope zero emission fuel comes along to ease their burden perhaps.
well, your PM must think he's gonna make some friends with that move ... time will tell.

maybe (or not) 2030 is an aggressive goal, but as of right now it's a bit over 6 years away, if we were in say 2028 and you'd move it out by a couple year, I might sympathize with that. But moving it from 6+ years away to now 11+ years - that'd dumb imho.
I sure hope this will not set any precedence anywhere else ...
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
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UK
The infrastructure is fine in the UK. And as just mentioned, it is still 6 years away so plenty of time for further upgrades.

This is plain and simple about money. I mean let's face it, full EVs are way pricier, and currently electricity tariffs are all over the place meaning that for most a modern petrol or diesel engine actually works out more economical. Now combine that with policies that make EVs even less attractive like road tax, incentives falling away. It is clear that what was a great thing, has been cancelled by other no well thought out pollicies, and now effectively has become a dead duck in the water...
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
No, the car industry is all in favour of 2030 and it’s a target they’ve been investing for and working towards for some years now. Ford have condemned the news. I’d imagine the sheer cost to the countries purse is what is making those at the top nervous. They live in hope zero emission fuel comes along to ease their burden perhaps.
More like they are desperately trying to appease voters that can’t afford an EV. For everyone of those he’ll lose one imo.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
25,463
Wales, United Kingdom
More like they are desperately trying to appease voters that can’t afford an EV. For everyone of those he’ll lose one imo.

I think those who can afford an EV or those who get them through employers will still get them though. We got ours because it only costs £18 a month in tax and is essentially free to charge 5 days a week. I’d say a significant proportion of EV’s currently on the road are company leases at the moment and at least as the number of these increase, it will feed the secondhand market for those who are intelligent enough not to buy a brand new car.

It’s about getting as much money from motorists as possible and the longer diesel and petrol cars are around, the longer the duty can be paid. I’d imagine these veiled costs through fuel are harder to disguise with EV’s, although from 2025 all EV’s over £40k are being hit with a £500+ a year vehicle tax which was inevitable.

I also don’t think our grid can cope with 40.8M licensed EV’s (current overall UK vehicle figure) on the road and significant investment is still needed.
 

Surfsalot

Suspended
Mar 18, 2023
2,049
2,028
Here in NSW they have just cancelled the government $3K rebate for buying a EV.
Reason dealers are just adding $3K on the price 😂
Going well.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,438
2,664
OBX
You are making a huge, unwarranted assumption that we all want to use “FSD”.
That is a fair point. If folks don't buy the vehicles because of the lack of stalks Tesla will revert and add them back, much like how they went back to a round steering wheel.
 
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