Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

You are making a huge, unwarranted assumption that we all want to use “FSD”.

FSD is where everything is going. Like it or not, the most dangerous thing about driving is the driver. Fully autonomous driving will eventually be the standard, and a driver will have to justify why they turned it off to take control when there is an accident.

But to be back on point. I already stated that I disagree with the move, but simply comparing a non-tesla removing the stalks is not the same as Tesla doing it. Tesla has focused on managing activities for the driver, because of this, they can get away with the removal of physical controls. They have done an exceptional job at it... The usual complaint about Tesla's lack of physical buttons is from someone who has never owned one, and at most test drove one and felt like this was enough experience to judge the vehicle. It takes more time than a test drive to really setup all the custom settings. Once setup, the lack of physical buttons is a non-issue.

You don't need FSD for automated controls like low/high beams, wipers, auto wiper cancelation, AC. All these are managed for the user, and there is no need for physical buttons.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Here in NSW they have just cancelled the government $3K rebate for buying a EV.
Reason dealers are just adding $3K on the price 😂
Going well.

I think the rebates always just get added on top. Cheaper road tax and running costs would help more adoption.

 

[Apple fanboy]

FSD is where everything is going. Like it or not, the most dangerous thing about driving is the driver. Fully autonomous driving will eventually be the standard, and a driver will have to justify why they turned it off to take control when there is an accident.

But to be back on point. I already stated that I disagree with the move, but simply comparing a non-tesla removing the stalks is not the same as Tesla doing it. Tesla has focused on managing activities for the driver, because of this, they can get away with the removal of physical controls. They have done an exceptional job at it... The usual complaint about Tesla's lack of physical buttons is from someone who has never owned one, and at most test drove one and felt like this was enough experience to judge the vehicle. It takes more time than a test drive to really setup all the custom settings. Once setup, the lack of physical buttons is a non-issue.

You don't need FSD for automated controls like low/high beams, wipers, auto wiper cancelation, AC. All these are managed for the user, and there is no need for physical buttons.

My high beams and wipers are automatic as well. Have been since before Tesla was even formed. But I still will always choose a car with physical controls and switches.
FSD won’t ever be adopted 100% in my opinion.

 

[diamond.g]

My high beams and wipers are automatic as well. Have been since before Tesla was even formed. But I still will always choose a car with physical controls and switches.
FSD won’t ever be adopted 100% in my opinion.

I am of two minds on this debate. I like buttons, but I also like new features which if they have to be mapped to buttons tends to mean having to buy a new vehicle.

 

[JT2002TJ]

My high beams and wipers are automatic as well. Have been since before Tesla was even formed. But I still will always choose a car with physical controls and switches.
FSD won’t ever be adopted 100% in my opinion.

Correct, auto high beams and wipers have existed well before Tesla. The difference is the integration with the car's OS/UI. Some vehicles have a sensitivity adjustment (some, most don't), but none I know of before tesla improve and add functionality after you own the vehicle. And as @diamond.g said, physical buttons limit the manufacture ability to improve/change functionality through OS updates.

I still stand by what I said that it is something that is easy to say you need the physical buttons until you actually spend a significant amount of time behind the wheel of a vehicle with a UI as well executed as Tesla. Nothing wrong with saying you like buttons (not knocking your preference), just saying once you regularly drive/own a Tesla you realize that you don't even notice the buttons are gone.

I have not owned an S/X, I only had a loaner X, so I am limiting my experience to the UI of 3/Y WITH wiper/shifter stalks. I did not have the X long enough to say they need to add the stalks, but it was a full steering wheel model, not a yoke.

I am a big fan of Apple CarPlay. With my Teslas the only thing I miss is Waze, which, I simply open and run on my phone and hear the audio while using Tesla's UI. It would be nice to have CarPlay, but I am still not convinced it can be executed well without holding back or interfering with Tesla's UI.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Correct, auto high beams and wipers have existed well before Tesla. The difference is the integration with the car's OS/UI. Some vehicles have a sensitivity adjustment (some, most don't), but none I know of before tesla improve and add functionality after you own the vehicle. And as @diamond.g said, physical buttons limit the manufacture ability to improve/change functionality through OS updates.

I still stand by what I said that it is something that is easy to say you need the physical buttons until you actually spend a significant amount of time behind the wheel of a vehicle with a UI as well executed as Tesla. Nothing wrong with saying you like buttons (not knocking your preference), just saying once you regularly drive/own a Tesla you realize that you don't even notice the buttons are gone.

I have not owned an S/X, I only had a loaner X, so I am limiting my experience to the UI of 3/Y WITH wiper/shifter stalks. I did not have the X long enough to say they need to add the stalks, but it was a full steering wheel model, not a yoke.

I am a big fan of Apple CarPlay. With my Teslas the only thing I miss is Waze, which, I simply open and run on my phone and hear the audio while using Tesla's UI. It would be nice to have CarPlay, but I am still not convinced it can be executed well without holding back or interfering with Tesla's UI.

I’m never going to spend time driving a Tesla. Never made the shortlist when looking at a car. Unless they changed significantly they never will.

 

[diamond.g]

I’m never going to spend time driving a Tesla. Never made the shortlist when looking at a car. Unless they changed significantly they never will.

And that is perfectly fine. Most folk want a normal car without all the gee whiz bang features. Nothing wrong with that.

I think some of the issue is manufacturers are chasing after the Tesla buyer and are conforming to what those buyers look for instead of just keeping on with what they are good at (while just adding a different form of propulsion). Most folk are okay with their cars not getting updates or not having games or routing to charging stations and what not.

 

[jz0309]

I’m never going to spend time driving a Tesla. Never made the shortlist when looking at a car. Unless they changed significantly they never will.

I won’t go that far as saying never ever,, for one it’s good to have choices (and we are really not there yet when it comes to EVs) but the one thing that Tesla has going for them at least in the US is the charging network.
My son loves his model 3 that he got like 3 months ago, I still love my Bolt EUV.
When the time comes to replace it, I will look at what’s out there

 

[Apple fanboy]

And that is perfectly fine. Most folk want a normal car without all the gee whiz bang features. Nothing wrong with that.

I think some of the issue is manufacturers are chasing after the Tesla buyer and are conforming to what those buyers look for instead of just keeping on with what they are good at (while just adding a different form of propulsion). Most folk are okay with their cars not getting updates or not having games or routing to charging stations and what not.

I have no issue with the technology (there is plenty in my BMW), but there is just too many things that I don’t like about Tesla. I prefer German cars. They are better suited to my style.

For fun I drove home not exceeding 56 mph today to see how much of a difference it would make. I left work on 100% and arrived home on 90%. Normally it’s around 89% if I drive at 65-70. So not that much of a difference.
I average 4.2 kw per mile. But I do very little driving around town or in traffic

 

[Apple fanboy]

I won’t go that far as saying never ever,, for one it’s good to have choices (and we are really not there yet when it comes to EVs) but the one thing that Tesla has going for them at least in the US is the charging network.
My son loves his model 3 that he got like 3 months ago, I still love my Bolt EUV.
When the time comes to replace it, I will look at what’s out there

The charging network, range and the way it connects with your account are all big pluses for Tesla.
But the styling doesn’t suit me. It’s too big for one person. 95% of my journeys are just me.
The exterior and interior styling is not to my taste.

 

[jz0309]

The charging network, range and the way it connects with your account are all big pluses for Tesla.
But the styling doesn’t suit me. It’s too big for one person. 95% of my journeys are just me.
The exterior and interior styling is not to my taste.

And I’m not arguing that, there are certainly cars out there today I would never buy…
But is comes back to what I said that we just don’t have enough choices when it comes to EVs today. In the US, they’re focusing on big, big cause that’s what the market trend has been for several years, look at GM, a Hummer, an Escalade are more important than updating a Bolt …

 

[Apple fanboy]

And I’m not arguing that, there are certainly cars out there today I would never buy…
But is comes back to what I said that we just don’t have enough choices when it comes to EVs today. In the US, they’re focusing on big, big cause that’s what the market trend has been for several years, look at GM, a Hummer, an Escalade are more important than updating a Bolt …

Yeah large cars don’t do it for me. SUV’s aren’t my thing. You either like a car shape or you don’t.

 

[Tagbert]

I am a big fan of Apple CarPlay. With my Teslas the only thing I miss is Waze, which, I simply open and run on my phone and hear the audio while using Tesla's UI. It would be nice to have CarPlay, but I am still not convinced it can be executed well without holding back or interfering with Tesla's UI.

You can integrate other apps into Tesla’s screen, like they do with Apple Music. CarPlay doesn’t have to have the whole screen dedicated to it. Even if you are using Tesla’s navigation, you could have Overcast on CarPlay in a secondary area playing podcasts.

 

[I7guy]

I’m never going to spend time driving a Tesla. Never made the shortlist when looking at a car. Unless they changed significantly they never will.

I said the same as well for years…and after my son got a M3 I started thinking about it. Fast forward and I’ve had my Tesla m3 for a month. I love driving the car. My wife who gave me a hard time about getting a Tesla turned the corner. I find it a joy to be in and a joy to drive. It’s a drama free car to drive.

If I had to name my biggest gripe it’s the music options. I used listen to AM radio, which is nowhere to be found. Like an apple app I wish there was a Sirius xm app. I wish telsa could integrate the fm radio in a more traditional manner.

CarPlay would be nice and my last car had wireless carplay, but the great thing about Tesla is the aftermarket support (as well as the software updates)

 

[HDFan]

I still stand by what I said that it is something that is easy to say you need the physical buttons until you actually spend a significant amount of time behind the wheel of a vehicle with a UI as well executed as Tesla.

The features where I zoom in/out of a map, scroll, etc. in navigation are a nightmare when I try to use touch on my iPhone when driving. Instead of zooming it rotates, zoom isn't really controllable, zoom is forgotten. As for "muscle" memory for touch screen functions, don't have it. My computer doesn't have a touch screen and have no interest in getting one. Awkward to extend the arm vs having the buttons right there by my hand where it is resting on the cars' center console.

Touch is very useful when it fits, such as on an iPad or iPhone on your lap.

Just talked to someone who just got a Tesla. The steering wheel froze as she was backing out of her driveway. Think a software update fixed it but just adding to my long list of reported Tesla problems.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The features where I zoom in/out of a map, scroll, etc. in navigation are a nightmare when I try to use touch on my iPhone when driving. Instead of zooming it rotates, zoom isn't really controllable, zoom is forgotten. As for "muscle" memory for touch screen functions, don't have it. My computer doesn't have a touch screen and have no interest in getting one. Awkward to extend the arm vs having the buttons right there by my hand where it is resting on the cars' center console.

Touch is very useful when it fits, such as on an iPad or iPhone on your lap.

Couldn’t agree more. Glad there is no horrible touchscreen in my car. I drive is much safer. You can also ask Siri to do things for you of course, but I don’t tend to need to do that much. Especially as I have programmable buttons.

 

[Linkbill]

Someday in the future one hundred percent yes. But now I can’t part with my two-liter engine and its sound. Moreover, new electric cars are quite expensive.

 

[JT2002TJ]

You can integrate other apps into Tesla’s screen, like they do with Apple Music. CarPlay doesn’t have to have the whole screen dedicated to it. Even if you are using Tesla’s navigation, you could have Overcast on CarPlay in a secondary area playing podcasts.

The biggest want for most Tesla owners with carplay is Waze. The second, can be resolved without Carplay, which is SiriusXM (Tesla, just needs to make an app). There are other useful things, like podcasts, but these also can be solved via Tesla developing apps.

Having 2 maps going at the same time, on the same screen where one is used for FSD/Enhanced Auto Pilot would not be a good user experience.

Right now, there is a valid argument for wanting CarPlay because Tesla has not provided apps that the majority of users want. But I still do not see it being a good user experience, the real estate on the screen is currently used. The aftermarket options where you add a cluster, this adds real estate and is a good option, but not the main screen.

 

[JT2002TJ]

The features where I zoom in/out of a map, scroll, etc. in navigation are a nightmare when I try to use touch on my iPhone when driving. Instead of zooming it rotates, zoom isn't really controllable, zoom is forgotten. As for "muscle" memory for touch screen functions, don't have it. My computer doesn't have a touch screen and have no interest in getting one. Awkward to extend the arm vs having the buttons right there by my hand where it is resting on the cars' center console.

Touch is very useful when it fits, such as on an iPad or iPhone on your lap.

These issues do not happen on Tesla's maps. The UI is very friendly to adjusting the maps, better than using an iphone/ipad.

Just talked to someone who just got a Tesla. The steering wheel froze as she was backing out of her driveway. Think a software update fixed it but just adding to my long list of reported Tesla problems.

I'm going to need more details about this... There are issues with every car manufacture, Tesla is not immune to defects.

EDIT: There is either a TSB or Voluntary Recall going on with some TM3/Y steering racks. Not sure if this is related to what she experienced.

 

[Tagbert]

The biggest want for most Tesla owners with carplay is Waze. The second, can be resolved without Carplay, which is SiriusXM (Tesla, just needs to make an app). There are other useful things, like podcasts, but these also can be solved via Tesla developing apps.

That would just produce a terrible result. My podcast subscriptions and listening status are on a podcast app on my phone. I can be listening to an episode on my phone, get in the car, and bring up that episode on CarPlay exactly where I left off. You don't get that if you have separate implementations. Just allowing CarPlay is by far the simpler solution.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That would just produce a terrible result. My podcast subscriptions and listening status are on a podcast app on my phone. I can be listening to an episode on my phone, get in the car, and bring up that episode on CarPlay exactly where I left off. You don't get that if you have separate implementations. Just allowing CarPlay is by far the simpler solution.

Agreed. I’d not buy any car without wireless CarPlay. It’s a line in the sand for me.

 

[JT2002TJ]

That would just produce a terrible result. My podcast subscriptions and listening status are on a podcast app on my phone. I can be listening to an episode on my phone, get in the car, and bring up that episode on CarPlay exactly where I left off. You don't get that if you have separate implementations. Just allowing CarPlay is by far the simpler solution.

This would only be an issue for podcasts that are not within the platform they develop. I can go between podcasts on different Apple devices, cloud streaming. If they added the apple podcasts app, just like they have apple music, you would be able to pick up where you left off.

Either way, nothing is stopping your vehicle from receiving the audio via Bluetooth. I stream SiriusXM from the app on my phone while Waze is running all without removing real estate from my screen. If there was a cluster that managed CarPlay (like the aftermarket), that would make more sense.

 

[jz0309]

That would just produce a terrible result. My podcast subscriptions and listening status are on a podcast app on my phone. I can be listening to an episode on my phone, get in the car, and bring up that episode on CarPlay exactly where I left off. You don't get that if you have separate implementations. Just allowing CarPlay is by far the simpler solution.

but when that rumored Tesla phone with the Tesla OS shows up, you don't need an iPhone anymore

 

[Tagbert]

This would only be an issue for podcasts that are not within the platform they develop. I can go between podcasts on different Apple devices, cloud streaming. If they added the apple podcasts app, just like they have apple music, you would be able to pick up where you left off.

Either way, nothing is stopping your vehicle from receiving the audio via Bluetooth. I stream SiriusXM from the app on my phone while Waze is running all without removing real estate from my screen. If there was a cluster that managed CarPlay (like the aftermarket), that would make more sense.

I don't use Apple Podcasts. I don't use Spotify. I use Overcast. Yes, I can use Bluetooth to project the audio on a Tesla and have done so but the experience is subpar. You only get a couple of controls as opposed to the much more feature rich experience playing on CarPlay. I don't want to have to use my phone to control podcasts while in the car.

Just add CarPlay support. it's simpler than all of these complicated workarounds.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’ve no idea what the guy was doing but the other day whilst walking down the country lane a guy in a Tesla drove past me. I noticed he had AirPods in.
A couple of minutes later he drove back slowly and was doing something on his iPhone.
No idea why he couldn’t be using BT at least.

Anyway hopefully the weather behaves and I can give my i3 a much needed detail this weekend.