Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[The-Real-Deal82]

Waze announces all these things... Police ahead, Red Light camera ahead, Heavy Traffic ahead (there is a setting on which notifications you want in Waze). It does it as soon as these appear on the map on the road you are traveling, so you do not actually need to view the map. Waze did it right, you shouldn't be taking your eyes off the road for their notifications. Now, I will admit, I have to take my eyes off the road, to my phone to participate in reporting incidents. I hit the report button(s) on my phone.

Other companies (other than Tesla) are not as heavily focused on having the vehicle drive for you. This is the catch. If you are trying so hard for autonomous driving, you need to have full control over the UI (also another reason there is a lack of buttons, other than cost savings).

I tend to use Waze with ‘alerts only’ as the constant audio interruptions do my head in while driving. I’d rather glance at the route at intervals to see what is going on personally. The sound gets turned on at new destinations where I don’t know where I am going which is rarely. I use Waze generally as a second eye on my daily routes so I can dodge congestion if needed, so I need to see the updated map.

I can’t report via Waze in my car as it doesn’t have CarPlay, so I’d have to touch the screen on my phone which is illegal in my country, so I don’t do it. My wife’s car has full CarPlay so despite it being the exact same thing, because it’s a screen built into the car, the police see it as safer lol.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I know you have your other issues with Tesla, more than just lack of CarPlay. I meant the in general "you" not you specifically. You have to buy what you want, I am making sure others who are deciding to go EV now (which I think this thread is really about) understand what their options are, and what they will or won't miss. I am giving my experience so they understand that the Tesla UI is so good on it's own, that one wouldn't miss CarPlay.

Just like to me, an i3 does not even come close to the range I need. It isn't even an option for me. And other manufacturers lack of automation and self driving (to cut down my the stress of 3 hours of daily commuting) take them out. I'm sure others will catch up, but right now, Tesla is King with these.

EDIT: Also, the i3 doesn't have the size I need. With a rear facing car seat for my

In Europe there is a lot of choice now with EV’s and although Tesla are popular due to being cheap, there is more to the purchase than just cost and UI. A lot of people here are used to driving German and Swedish cars and the likes of Polestar, BMW, Audi, VW, Skoda and Mercedes have a lot of options here in styles that are perhaps more popular to European tastes. Tesla is very much king at the moment even here in the EV sector, but the others are catching up fast as the options increase. A lot of the technology Tesla are introducing are also being copied by other manufacturers which is good for consumers.

 

[Tagbert]

I think you may have my thoughts about CarPlay wrong. I do like CarPlay, I also said to myself, I would never buy another vehicle without CarPlay. But then I bought a Tesla, and loved it so much I sold 2 vehicles and got a 2nd Tesla.

I agree in your use case, having CarPlay to run control your Overcast usage would make your user experience better, I do not disagree here. Most of my listening is like yours, radio shows on SiriusXM where I listen to several channels, or shows in podcast form (streamable after live show).

I spend 3 hours in my car a day, 1 hour in, and 2 hours home. I go between my SiriusXM shows, kids' channels since my son to be 2-year-old sone rides with me (his daycare is at my job) and music saved on my phone. So, I spend a lot of time listening to the radio in my TMY.

What I disagree with is how the user interface would be with CarPlay (with 1 screen). The screen real estate is all used, and in reality, the only area that can be used in the static screen is where the current audio is on the bottom left. See the image below. The right side of the screen is for Tesla's Maps, the left side is for vehicle info. So, in the static view CarPlay would only get the small portion on the bottom left where you can see I have a SiriusXM show on.

Also, CarPlay likes to take over the entire screen, or where it doesn't only a small portion is left for the manufacture's vehicle controls (for example the 12" U-connect screen).

I just do not see how the deployment of CarPlay in Tesla's UI can be successful without taking away from the current awesome UI.

Tesla wants to drive users to using Enhanced Auto Pilot or Full Sell Driving. Because of this, the full screen is used. I apologize, this was the only picture I could quickly find in my phone, the Energy Consumption screen is covering the Tesla GPS maps.

View attachment 2280362

With the aftermarket clusters that have CarPlay, that makes more sense to me, as it wouldn't interfere with the current UI.

CarPlay fits wherever the manufacturer puts the player. It’s essentially a web video player. That left side area where the simulated surroundings are is one area where it could go. That animation is interesting at first but not that useful after a while.

FSD has no interest to me so I don’t see any reason to reserve space for it. Regardless of what Tesla wants me to do.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I tend to use Waze with ‘alerts only’ as the constant audio interruptions do my head in while driving. I’d rather glance at the route at intervals to see what is going on personally. The sound gets turned on at new destinations where I don’t know where I am going which is rarely. I use Waze generally as a second eye on my daily routes so I can dodge congestion if needed, so I need to see the updated map.

I can’t report via Waze in my car as it doesn’t have CarPlay, so I’d have to touch the screen on my phone which is illegal in my country, so I don’t do it. My wife’s car has full CarPlay so despite it being the exact same thing, because it’s a screen built into the car, the police see it as safer lol.

I just use the I-Drive rather than touch any screens. Easy!

 

[Apple fanboy]

CarPlay fits wherever the manufacturer puts the player. It’s essentially a web video player. That left side area where the simulated surroundings are is one area where it could go. That animation is interesting at first but not that useful after a while.

FSD has no interest to me so I don’t see any reason to reserve space for it. Regardless of what Tesla wants me to do.

Exactly. Give the driver the choice. I can use the built in BMW maps which is fine, or Apple Maps, Google or Waze. Whatever I choose.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I just use the I-Drive rather than touch any screens. Easy!

It’s definitely a superior way to navigate through menus and probably the reason BMW hasn’t stepped fully away from it yet. Unfortunately our Q4 is mostly touchscreen, although AC and climate control are still operated via buttons thank goodness. VW tried a full touchscreen approach with the ID4 a few years back and reintroduced buttons due to negative feedback from customers and motoring journalists. Hopefully they remain and likely will as our laws tend to condemn distracting ourselves with touchscreens.

 

[diamond.g]

Exactly. Give the driver the choice. I can use the built in BMW maps which is fine, or Apple Maps, Google or Waze. Whatever I choose.

Have you tried any of the Mecedes EV's with Level 3 in the EU/UK? Does it use the CarPlay maps for the Level 3 mode or not?

I wonder the same question for the BlueCruise/SuperCruise folk as well.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It’s definitely a superior way to navigate through menus and probably the reason BMW hasn’t stepped fully away from it yet. Unfortunately our Q4 is mostly touchscreen, although AC and climate control are still operated via buttons thank goodness. VW tried a full touchscreen approach with the ID4 a few years back and reintroduced buttons due to negative feedback from customers and motoring journalists. Hopefully they remain and likely will as our laws tend to condemn distracting ourselves with touchscreens.

A number of manufacturers are moving away from touchscreen only inputs. Can’t come soon enough.

 

[JT2002TJ]

CarPlay fits wherever the manufacturer puts the player. It’s essentially a web video player. That left side area where the simulated surroundings are is one area where it could go. That animation is interesting at first but not that useful after a while.

FSD has no interest to me so I don’t see any reason to reserve space for it. Regardless of what Tesla wants me to do.

FSD may have no interest to you, but it is a big part of Tesla, and one of the biggest things that makes Tesla Tesla. The animation on the left is fundamental to EAP/FSD. For everyone, it shows you not only your blind spots (and vehicles around you), but it also what EAP/FSD is thinking. It tells you why it is doing what it is doing. I says "slowing down for slop sign", "creeping forward for visibility" and other important functions. When parked, it is where you open the Frunk/Trunk/charging port or unlock the doors. It is also where warning messages go, and if you look on the left, that is where your functions show (headlights, fogs, high beams, tire pressure warning, trailer mode,...).

Now how useful would carplay be if it was on 1/9th of the screen? It would be too small to read as you are driving, and trying to touch while driving would be a PITA.

I still see no easy way to execute CarPlay with the current setup without removing functionality or the beautiful UI that Tesla has. I talk to others with Rivian's, they also agree with their UI. What makes the UI so good, is that they do not need Carplay/Android Auto...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Have you tried any of the Mecedes EV's with Level 3 in the EU/UK? Does it use the CarPlay maps for the Level 3 mode or not?

I wonder the same question for the BlueCruise/SuperCruise folk as well.

I’ve not I’m afraid. The last Mercedes I drove was whilst mine was at the garage. I never used CarPlay as it was just for local area and I didn’t want to hook my phone up with a wire.

 

[Apple fanboy]

FSD may have no interest to you, but it is a big part of Tesla, and one of the biggest things that makes Tesla Tesla. The animation on the left is fundamental to EAP/FSD. For everyone, it shows you not only your blind spots (and vehicles around you), but it also what EAP/FSD is thinking. It tells you why it is doing what it is doing. I says "slowing down for slop sign", "creeping forward for visibility" and other important functions. When parked, it is where you open the Frunk/Trunk/charging port or unlock the doors. It is also where warning messages go, and if you look on the left, that is where your functions show (headlights, fogs, high beams, tire pressure warning, trailer mode,...).

Now how useful would carplay be if it was on 1/9th of the screen? It would be too small to read as you are driving, and trying to touch while driving would be a PITA.

I still see no easy way to execute CarPlay with the current setup without removing functionality or the beautiful UI that Tesla has. I talk to others with Rivian's, they also agree with their UI. What makes the UI so good, is that they do not need Carplay/Android Auto...

FSD isn’t legal in the UK. So why not give the driver the choice?
I’m guessing it’s to do with licensing and who pays who. But it’s the end user who misses out.

 

[Michael Scrip]

A number of manufacturers are moving away from touchscreen only inputs. Can’t come soon enough.

Agreed.

Reminds me of when auto manufacturers removed the volume knob... then people complained... so they had to put the volume knob back.

And here we are again. Some of the most basic functions are now trapped in a touchscreen... and I don't think it's for the better.

🤔

 

[Apple fanboy]

Agreed.

Reminds me of when auto manufacturers removed the volume knob... then people complained... so they had to put the volume knob back.

And here we are again. Some of the most basic functions are now trapped in a touchscreen... and I don't think it's for the better.

🤔

Definitely not safer!

 

[diamond.g]

FSD isn’t legal in the UK. So why not give the driver the choice?
I’m guessing it’s to do with licensing and who pays who. But it’s the end user who misses out.

I've asked folk before how CarPlay/AA would integrate with the car navigating to a location. Most folk basically say that the auto manufacturer should open up the automation to accept inputs from a third party, cause nothing could go wrong there...

 

[JT2002TJ]

FSD isn’t legal in the UK. So why not give the driver the choice?
I’m guessing it’s to do with licensing and who pays who. But it’s the end user who misses out.

They would have to build an entirely different branch of OS'. Not saying it isn't possible. But the current real estate proposed is actually used for all the lights you typically would see on a cluster. They run down the left side. In the new design of the TM3 and S/X that strip is for shifting between P/N/R/D with the cluster lights inboard of it.

I thought so too, but I think it was pointed out earlier in this thread (not by me, I have no idea) that CarPlay is free and doesn't require licensing. But I have no idea.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I've asked folk before how CarPlay/AA would integrate with the car navigating to a location. Most folk basically say that the auto manufacturer should open up the automation to accept inputs from a third party, cause nothing could go wrong there...

I also have yet to hear a good example of how it would work. But my feeling is that that is never going to happen... The liability is on the vehicle manufacturer, now add that the vehicle can actually drive itself. It would be a rabbit hole of who's to blame, is it Apple? Waze? Auto Manufacturer? All pointing fingers as to why the car hit someone trying to make a last-minute exit because the passenger selected the destination late...

 

[I7guy]

Agreed.

Reminds me of when auto manufacturers removed the volume knob... then people complained... so they had to put the volume knob back.

And here we are again. Some of the most basic functions are now trapped in a touchscreen... and I don't think it's for the better.

🤔

The execution of the touch screen in a Tesla is nearly perfect and the screen is nearly not needed during driving. And the voice command is very robust.

Of course each has our own opinions of the lack of buttons, but I find entering my model 3 is very zen-like and calming.

I was against Tesla before I was for it. Like apple is eating profits in the phone sector Tesla is far and away from the competition. If I had to do it again I would make the same choice without hesitation.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Like apple is eating profits in the phone sector Tesla is far and away from the competition. If I had to do it again I would make the same choice without hesitation.

Profits don’t mean something is better though, especially not where cars are concerned. Tesla is a very cost effective option and sells very well in the UK for example because they are cheaper than many other EV’s on company car schemes. Tesla have priced their cars to appeal to the mid market and are probably so popular because of this strategy. How much they make in profit means nothing to the people who have bought other options though.

 

[I7guy]

Profits don’t mean something is better though, especially not where cars are concerned. Tesla is a very cost effective option and sells very well in the UK for example because they are cheaper than many other EV’s on company car schemes. Tesla have priced their cars to appeal to the mid market and are probably so popular because of this strategy. How much they make in profit means nothing to the people who have bought other options though.

With Tesla I was talking more about their position. Every other EV manufacturer is selling crumbs compared to Tesla. The model y is the most popular vehicle sold globally and it seems to be said that Tesla has a 5 year lead over other manufacturers.

The model 3 seems to be the benchmark for affordable EVs and the rumor is Tesla is working on a $25,000 EV. Tesla has a huge lead in manufacturing efficiency, supply chain integration, continuous improvement and innovation and to me the most important consumer item is the purchase, acquisition, and deep integration of the app into the ownership experience. (And I don’t own any Tesla stock)

While it seems to be common knowledge in the past fit and finish needed improvement I think Tesla has addressed it. Their drive train, software integration and battery management according to what I’ve read are in the fore front.

That said competition is good.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

With Tesla I was talking more about their position. Every other EV manufacturer is selling crumbs compared to Tesla. The model y is the most popular vehicle sold globally and it seems to be said that Tesla has a 5 year lead over other manufacturers.

The model 3 seems to be the benchmark for affordable EVs and the rumor is Tesla is working on a $25,000 EV. Tesla has a huge lead in manufacturing efficiency, supply chain integration, continuous improvement and innovation and to me the most important consumer item is the purchase, acquisition, and deep integration of the app into the ownership experience. (And I don’t own any Tesla stock)

While it seems to be common knowledge in the past fit and finish needed improvement I think Tesla has addressed it. Their drive train, software integration and battery management according to what I’ve read are in the fore front.

That said competition is good.

Tesla have certainly driven the EV market to where it is currently.

As a consumer I don’t view it as competition, but options on the market. We don’t really care about profits or cars sold, but more what appeals to our tastes. Cars are one of the few products where popularity is less of an attraction when buying. There are three Model 3’s in my street now and for me, that is a partial incentive to look at what else there is on offer. Tesla have a great user interface apparently, but I’m fine with using knobs to adjust my AC and heaters for now and our EV is more advanced than we really need.

All manufacturers are improving and Tesla is no longer alone at the front when it comes to options which is good. In Europe we also have a lot more options from the German makers which are decent. For me, the aesthetics of the car are just as important as the user experience inside and this is why a Tesla was not on our short list. We could have got a Model Y £10k cheaper on the budget, but we simply didn’t like the car. The fact the Model Y is the best selling EV in the world doesn’t make an iota of difference on that for me.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Tesla have certainly driven the EV market to where it is currently.

As a consumer I don’t view it as competition, but options on the market. We don’t really care about profits or cars sold, but more what appeals to our tastes. Cars are one of the few products where popularity is less of an attraction when buying. There are three Model 3’s in my street now and for me, that is a partial incentive to look at what else there is on offer. Tesla have a great user interface apparently, but I’m fine with using knobs to adjust my AC and heaters for now and our EV is more advanced than we really need.

All manufacturers are improving and Tesla is no longer alone at the front when it comes to options which is good. In Europe we also have a lot more options from the German makers which are decent. For me, the aesthetics of the car are just as important as the user experience inside and this is why a Tesla was not on our short list. We could have got a Model Y £10k cheaper on the budget, but we simply didn’t like the car. The fact the Model Y is the best selling EV in the world doesn’t make an iota of difference on that for me.

Tesla wasn’t even on my long list for the reasons we have discussed before.

Tesla certainly have made the EV market more mainstream, but I think some people think they were the first to the market with an electric car. Not even in the same decade as others.

 

[jz0309]

With Tesla I was talking more about their position. Every other EV manufacturer is selling crumbs compared to Tesla. The model y is the most popular vehicle sold globally and it seems to be said that Tesla has a 5 year lead over other manufacturers.

The model 3 seems to be the benchmark for affordable EVs and the rumor is Tesla is working on a $25,000 EV. Tesla has a huge lead in manufacturing efficiency, supply chain integration, continuous improvement and innovation and to me the most important consumer item is the purchase, acquisition, and deep integration of the app into the ownership experience. (And I don’t own any Tesla stock)

While it seems to be common knowledge in the past fit and finish needed improvement I think Tesla has addressed it. Their drive train, software integration and battery management according to what I’ve read are in the fore front.

That said competition is good.

I agree that Tesla is the EV king, the traditional car makers are well behind and currently seem to focus on high end vehicles which helps their margin but puts them even further behind imho. The exception probably being Hyundai/Kia, but their disadvantage for now is the tax credit, here in the US.

What is missing are choices in the “affordable” segment, that space is pretty vacant right now here in the US.

 

[I7guy]

Tesla wasn’t even on my long list for the reasons we have discussed before.

Tesla certainly have made the EV market more mainstream, but I think some people think they were the first to the market with an electric car. Not even in the same decade as others.

True. Porsche came out with an electric vehicle in the late 1800s or so. Tesla was the first to focus on the entirety of the EV ownership experience and designed their EVs from the ground up not added a battery like some other manufacturers.

For me, Tesla wasn’t in my long list either until it became the one and only car on my list.

 

[jz0309]

We could have got a Model Y £10k cheaper on the budget, but we simply didn’t like the car.

if I understand from your previous posts the EV you got was a company car, please correct me if I’m wrong, but, would you have chosen the same vehicle if it were your own money? Just curious…

 

[I7guy]

I agree that Tesla is the EV king, the traditional car makers are well behind and currently seem to focus on high end vehicles which helps their margin but puts them even further behind imho. The exception probably being Hyundai/Kia, but their disadvantage for now is the tax credit, here in the US.

What is missing are choices in the “affordable” segment, that space is pretty vacant right now here in the US.

As other manufacturers focus on halo cars and Tesla focuses on affordable cars, these manufacturers probably will fall further behind Tesla. Many other manufacturers are losing big money and are just realizing that Tesla may have a good plan when it comes to how vehicles are manufactured.