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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,596
13,436
Alaska
Tesla just put in a supercharger 1.9 miles from our house. Nearest one before was over twenty mins away. But it’s been completely packed 6am to 10pm as it’s on the edge (no super chargers to the north or west (within 35 mins) of me). Hopefully they put another one in nearby :). Still nice option to have.
Somebody posted this video about a Tesla charging station (no idea how old the video is, however)

This is recent:
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
Somebody posted this video about a Tesla charging station (no idea how old the video is, however)

This is recent:
Wow that is amazing. I live in Southern California about 50 miles from downtown Los Angeles. The longest line I've seen was about 6 Teslas deep on a Friday night at Victoria Gardens in San Bernardino CA. In that specific area there's 2 other Tesla Superchargers within 3 mins and 6 mins (massive one but slower 75kw).

I've never had to wait in a Tesla line thankfully. A month ago Tesla charge rates went up significantly for peak hours so we no longer will charge between 11am-7/9pm. I think this has helped the congestion rate a bit too. The 250kw stations charge your car REALLY fast - you can easily be in and out of there within 10-15 mins (slows down a lot after 80%).

My wife gets free charging at work (20 amp outlet) and we keep our car plugged in at home (normal 15amp outlet). Whenever we do go on a trip we usually try to drive early morning or late at night - and all the supercharging stations we've used (Santa Clarita, Pasadena, Hesperia, Chatsworth/Granada Hills) all had spaces free when we needed them even during peak hours. (Mind you, we've only had this Tesla February - Now).

The one near our house is packed because it's at the edge of a provided area - I can tell it has lightened the load significantly on the other surrounding Tesla Superchargers (Victoria Gardens, Eastvale, etc) - as they are a lot more free than usual. If I needed to use it I'd probably try to hit it before 6am and it would be mostly free by then - charge quick, then go back home (or wait till after 9-10pm). It's a shame it only has 8 spots. Most superchargers have many more.

Edit: I should mention that this isn't even counting 3rd party networks like ChargePoint - there's at least 10+ stations within a 10-15 mile radius (2 within 3 blocks) but they're usually only 6.6-7.x kw and fairly cheap ($.25/kw). A mall 10 mins away and a grocery store also 15 mins away has free ones that are usually empty (charge at 21-27mi/hr) if we had to. We've used these before but we rarely stay more than an hour. They are popping up all over.

Edit2: A comment on the Las Vegas Youtube Video: "Within 30 days after this video was released, the number of Supercharger stations in Las Vegas increased by 60% and the number of stalls increased by 54%. It's amazing how fast these things change." ---- I know this was part of the justification for the peak hour usage rate increase - to install more stations.
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,165
25,368
Gotta be in it to win it
A base Tesla 3 is about $47k. Not affordable to many. My son picked up a 3 and his only option was an extended range battery. It’s a nice car and came with 6 cosmetic defects. He had a 50 amp charger installed in his garage. It’s a nice car, feels like a computer on wheels.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,102
56,154
Behind the Lens, UK
A base Tesla 3 is about $47k. Not affordable to many. My son picked up a 3 and his only option was an extended range battery. It’s a nice car and came with 6 cosmetic defects. He had a 50 amp charger installed in his garage. It’s a nice car, feels like a computer on wheels.
Tbh all cars these days are a computer on wheels. But that’s not a bad thing.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
A base Tesla 3 is about $47k. Not affordable to many. My son picked up a 3 and his only option was an extended range battery. It’s a nice car and came with 6 cosmetic defects. He had a 50 amp charger installed in his garage. It’s a nice car, feels like a computer on wheels.
They're damn expensive.

My wife and I had 2 - 2018 EX Civics with about 50k miles on them each. We sold them in February for about 80% of what we paid for them in 2018. We lucked out because my work went 100% remote so we found that for the same payment as 2 civics we could get a used 2018 Tesla LR AWD with about 39k miles on it. Add on the ~$300/mo gas savings, $90/mo less insurance cost, we're pretty happy.

But yes, these things are extremely expensive. Even a base Nissan Leaf is pricey imo (I recently looked into how much it would cost for me to get my own car again - nope, won't be able to afford one anytime soon).
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,268
7,292
Seattle
It’s optimism with about 90% doubt because we are having EV’s forced on us by 2030 yet a huge proportion of motorists won’t be able to afford them. When I listed that spec I did so with tongue in cheek because right now that sort of EV is about £100k. The average cost of a car in the UK as of 2022 is £12k. If a used EV is £25k+, we have a huge economic problem coming. I think carbon neutral fuel will be promoted in the meantime and hopefully that will be a technology sharing the roads beyond 2030.

I was indeed talking about a used vehicle too. I have absolutely no desire to ever buy a brand new car.
I would expect that by 2030, a significant number of used EVs will be available bringing down the cost to transition. Anyone without significant disposable income should not be buying a new car.
 

Strelok

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2017
1,471
1,721
United States
Welp, opposite here. I never thought there would be a day where I spend more time in a Model S than I did my internal combustion sports cars, and it’s finally happened. It’s not that I don’t appreciate internal combustion (Cuz’ I definitely do), it’s just I de-prioritized driving as much as I’ve enjoyed the Model S [Especially with high fuel prices]. I’ve got nothing but great things to say and I’ve had no experiences that would put me off from another Tesla in the future.

I mean, how can you not like this car:
View attachment 2025705
The cars themselves are good, the service is the issue. The company also has odd priorities with software, I’ve had two major updates (V10 and V11) since I’ve had mine and both are worse than previous versions in terms of usability. If you do not have to deal with Tesla service or are lucky enough to have a good service center near you, the ownership experience will be great. But I will never give this company another dime.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
The cars themselves are good, the service is the issue. The company also has odd priorities with software, I’ve had two major updates (V10 and V11) since I’ve had mine and both are worse than previous versions in terms of usability. If you do not have to deal with Tesla service or are lucky enough to have a good service center near you, the ownership experience will be great. But I will never give this company another dime.
Is it the service center that makes the experience? I genuinely ask.

My first car was a Pontiac Sunfire. I babied this thing, waxed it regularly, gave it synthetic oil, and put 3x it's value into it to keep it running to 240k miles. By the end of those 240k miles the thing could no longer drive, most of the paint had rusted off, and I was very embarrassed to drive it.

Drove Civics after that because I was tired of unreliable ugly cars.

I used to be someone who wanted a pickup but gas prices made that not happen. I always wanted a Ford F250 SD with a power stroke diesel engine. Someone I knew with a Cummings Dodge Ram had such a horrible experience with a local dealer that he swore he'd never buy another Dodge again - and I know quite a few that think the Dodge is the greatest thing ever.

I know a handful of people with Tesla - most seem happy, but there's a few that had quite a few problems with their cars (especially the earlier models).

Our Tesla - My wife popped two tires on the 405 last month and we were able to get in and out of a service center within an hour, but another time - when we wanted an alignment and a fix for a parking camera, it was a 16 day wait to get an appointment. The free uber credits were nice. They did some warranty work too (covered).
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,596
13,436
Alaska
Wow that is amazing. I live in Southern California about 50 miles from downtown Los Angeles. The longest line I've seen was about 6 Teslas deep on a Friday night at Victoria Gardens in San Bernardino CA. In that specific area there's 2 other Tesla Superchargers within 3 mins and 6 mins (massive one but slower 75kw).

I've never had to wait in a Tesla line thankfully. A month ago Tesla charge rates went up significantly for peak hours so we no longer will charge between 11am-7/9pm. I think this has helped the congestion rate a bit too. The 250kw stations charge your car REALLY fast - you can easily be in and out of there within 10-15 mins (slows down a lot after 80%).

My wife gets free charging at work (20 amp outlet) and we keep our car plugged in at home (normal 15amp outlet). Whenever we do go on a trip we usually try to drive early morning or late at night - and all the supercharging stations we've used (Santa Clarita, Pasadena, Hesperia, Chatsworth/Granada Hills) all had spaces free when we needed them even during peak hours. (Mind you, we've only had this Tesla February - Now).

The one near our house is packed because it's at the edge of a provided area - I can tell it has lightened the load significantly on the other surrounding Tesla Superchargers (Victoria Gardens, Eastvale, etc) - as they are a lot more free than usual. If I needed to use it I'd probably try to hit it before 6am and it would be mostly free by then - charge quick, then go back home (or wait till after 9-10pm). It's a shame it only has 8 spots. Most superchargers have many more.

Edit: I should mention that this isn't even counting 3rd party networks like ChargePoint - there's at least 10+ stations within a 10-15 mile radius (2 within 3 blocks) but they're usually only 6.6-7.x kw and fairly cheap ($.25/kw). A mall 10 mins away and a grocery store also 15 mins away has free ones that are usually empty (charge at 21-27mi/hr) if we had to. We've used these before but we rarely stay more than an hour. They are popping up all over.

Edit2: A comment on the Las Vegas Youtube Video: "Within 30 days after this video was released, the number of Supercharger stations in Las Vegas increased by 60% and the number of stalls increased by 54%. It's amazing how fast these things change." ---- I know this was part of the justification for the peak hour usage rate increase - to install more stations.
Yes, I read somewhere that lots of chargers have been installed throughs Las Vegas in recent months.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,329
25,492
Wales, United Kingdom
I would expect that by 2030, a significant number of used EVs will be available bringing down the cost to transition. Anyone without significant disposable income should not be buying a new car.

The way it’s going though by 2030 the only cars in the £25k bracket will probably be 2020-22 models with a couple of hundred thousand on the clock.

People without a significant disposable income is becoming the norm now with inflation rates sky rocketing. If you’re saying anybody who can’t afford a £25k+ car by 2030 shouldn’t be buying one, what are their options? Just don’t drive? That’s not an option in many parts of the UK if people want to work.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,495
The cars themselves are good, the service is the issue.
I wouldn’t know, because I just purchased mine less than six months ago. So I haven’t had any concerns that I needed to address.

I’ve had two major updates (V10 and V11) since I’ve had mine and both are worse than previous versions in terms of usability.
I don’t know what you mean by ‘worse in terms of usability’, as you’re not providing any examples.

But I will never give this company another dime.
I agree, you should vote with your wallet if you’re not happy with the services. There’s other options out there.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,102
56,154
Behind the Lens, UK
The way it’s going though by 2030 the only cars in the £25k bracket will probably be 2020-22 models with a couple of hundred thousand on the clock.

People without a significant disposable income is becoming the norm now with inflation rates sky rocketing. If you’re saying anybody who can’t afford a £25k+ car by 2030 shouldn’t be buying one, what are their options? Just don’t drive? That’s not an option in many parts of the UK if people want to work.
2030 is a long time away. Who can say what will be happening with the economy etc. But I agree there are a few tough years ahead for many motorists.
Here I’ve decided to WFH today as there are planned protests on the motorways about fuel prices. I’m not really sure what they expect them to achieve, but would rather not get caught up in them.
 

halledise

macrumors 68020
no one can 'save the planet'
i mean what does that even look like?
carbon dioxide is good for growing stuff.
carbon monoxide is the bummer.
i'll stay with my bmw diesel thank you.
efficient diesel is the lowest polluting internal combustion motor ever made.
EVs require rare minerals mined by child labour and iffy 'green' energy to charge the things.
so, no - no electric vehicle for me or mine thank you very much
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,102
56,154
Behind the Lens, UK
no one can 'save the planet'
i mean what does that even look like?
carbon dioxide is good for growing stuff.
carbon monoxide is the bummer.
i'll stay with my bmw diesel thank you.
efficient diesel is the lowest polluting internal combustion motor ever made.
EVs require rare minerals mined by child labour and iffy 'green' energy to charge the things.
so, no - no electric vehicle for me or mine thank you very much
What an outdated view.
 
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Reactions: Tagbert

Zendokan

macrumors 6502
Feb 17, 2011
324
172
Belgium
In 5 years, when my Mini Cooper S is 9 years and my current new Mazda MX-5 RF is 5 years old, I will be mandated by the Belgian Government to buy a zero emissions car as a company car to get tax benefits.

Well, in 5 years I want to replace my Mini with the Toyota Mirai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai). Not an EV, but a hydrogin/EV hybride.

The reason is first that the range on EV's still is low, second is that when you live in an apartment, it is difficult to install individual load stations, third, the electric net is a joke in Belgium. Current day if 4 people in a 50 houses street own Tesla's, they diminish the current output for the other houses. I don't think that they can rewire the complete electric current network in Belgium in 5 years or 13 years (2035) to accommodate the electric usage of homes and EV's combined. Fourth, the electrical output of our nuclear powerplants, gas burning powerplants, solar panels and windmills can't cover our current power usage. Changing the carpark alone to EV's would surely create blackouts on a daily base.

I just hope that in the next 5 years the government invests in more hydrogen tank stations, since currently we only have 5 stations for 12 million citizens, else the hydrogin hybride car can't be bought.
 

Eric5h5

macrumors 68020
Dec 9, 2004
2,494
604
I think carbon neutral fuel will be promoted in the meantime
There's no such thing.
I just hope that in the next 5 years the government invests in more hydrogen tank stations
Hydrogen is a scam. It's generated from fossil fuels, is much less efficient than battery electric even if it wasn't, and transportation/storage is very difficult (read: expensive).
no one can 'save the planet'
i mean what does that even look like?
carbon dioxide is good for growing stuff.
carbon monoxide is the bummer.
i'll stay with my bmw diesel thank you.
efficient diesel is the lowest polluting internal combustion motor ever made.
EVs require rare minerals mined by child labour and iffy 'green' energy to charge the things.
so, no - no electric vehicle for me or mine thank you very much
Congrats, almost everything you said was wrong. Pretty sad attempt at trolling.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,495
You knew what I was referring to in terms of synthetic fuels and engine technologies working towards carbon neutral outputs.
In fairness, I also read your post, and I didn’t fully understand what you were referring to either regarding synthetic fuel/engine technology towards your carbon neutral point. It’s not that you weren’t descriptive in your post, I think with that poster is actually saying is that what you posted is inaccurate.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,596
13,436
Alaska
In 5 years, when my Mini Cooper S is 9 years and my current new Mazda MX-5 RF is 5 years old, I will be mandated by the Belgian Government to buy a zero emissions car as a company car to get tax benefits.

Well, in 5 years I want to replace my Mini with the Toyota Mirai (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai). Not an EV, but a hydrogin/EV hybride.

The reason is first that the range on EV's still is low, second is that when you live in an apartment, it is difficult to install individual load stations, third, the electric net is a joke in Belgium. Current day if 4 people in a 50 houses street own Tesla's, they diminish the current output for the other houses. I don't think that they can rewire the complete electric current network in Belgium in 5 years or 13 years (2035) to accommodate the electric usage of homes and EV's combined. Fourth, the electrical output of our nuclear powerplants, gas burning powerplants, solar panels and windmills can't cover our current power usage. Changing the carpark alone to EV's would surely create blackouts on a daily base.

I just hope that in the next 5 years the government invests in more hydrogen tank stations, since currently we only have 5 stations for 12 million citizens, else the hydrogin hybride car can't be bought.
In reality, the reason why ICE automobiles have superior drive ranges than EV's is because electrical energy is not very dense compared to the density of fuel. For example, the combined MPG usage of my 2012 Toyota Corolla is 29 MPG (26 city driving/34 highway). The tank holds 13.5 US gallons, and this fuel weights 81 pounds (US). So in ideal road conditions I can drive close to 500 miles at highway speed without having to refuel (34 MPG x 13.5 gallons of gasoline). Not only that, but as the engine consumes fuel, the 80 pounds of fuel gradually decreases to zero.

If I were to modify my Corolla into an EV, the only way I can attain "maybe" under one-half of the drive range (below 250 miles) is by installing an enormous battery (a very heavy and bulky battery). You can figure this out by looking at the specs or a 2022 Mini Cooper hardtop EV versus the same but ICE version. Even with the small battery used in the EV version, it is still heavier than the ICE version, and still can't reach its' drive range. That is another reason why there aren't powerful long range EV aircraft. The batteries would take a lot of the cargo room and would make the aircraft extremely heavy, and this weight would remains constant throughout the flight.
 
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The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,329
25,492
Wales, United Kingdom
In fairness, I also read your post, and I didn’t fully understand what you were referring to either regarding synthetic fuel/engine technology towards your carbon neutral point. It’s not that you weren’t descriptive in your post, I think with that poster is actually saying is that what you posted is inaccurate.

Well whatever. I’ve clarified so.
 

Strelok

macrumors 65816
Jun 6, 2017
1,471
1,721
United States
I wouldn’t know, because I just purchased mine less than six months ago. So I haven’t had any concerns that I needed to address.


I don’t know what you mean by ‘worse in terms of usability’, as you’re not providing any examples.


I agree, you should vote with your wallet if you’re not happy with the services. There’s other options out there.
They increased the size of the left part of the screen (Model 3/Y) which shows nothing of use for the driver. It just shows cars ahead of you, which I can see out of the windshield. They also reduced the size of the speed you are currently driving for some reason. So I see less information and more gimmicks, most likely this is due to their insistence that FSD will be here soon. The cards that used to show info such as consumption/wipers and tire pressure are now buried in a menu requiring 2-3 clicks to get there. There are more minor gripes with it, but I can get over some of them as just being different. Overall, the updates haven’t improved anything for the driver. At least we got TikTok though :rolleyes:

Like I said, they make good cars except the quality control is not super high and they focus on gimmicks with the software.

Is it the service center that makes the experience? I genuinely ask.

My first car was a Pontiac Sunfire. I babied this thing, waxed it regularly, gave it synthetic oil, and put 3x it's value into it to keep it running to 240k miles. By the end of those 240k miles the thing could no longer drive, most of the paint had rusted off, and I was very embarrassed to drive it.

Drove Civics after that because I was tired of unreliable ugly cars.

I used to be someone who wanted a pickup but gas prices made that not happen. I always wanted a Ford F250 SD with a power stroke diesel engine. Someone I knew with a Cummings Dodge Ram had such a horrible experience with a local dealer that he swore he'd never buy another Dodge again - and I know quite a few that think the Dodge is the greatest thing ever.

I know a handful of people with Tesla - most seem happy, but there's a few that had quite a few problems with their cars (especially the earlier models).

Our Tesla - My wife popped two tires on the 405 last month and we were able to get in and out of a service center within an hour, but another time - when we wanted an alignment and a fix for a parking camera, it was a 16 day wait to get an appointment. The free uber credits were nice. They did some warranty work too (covered).
Yes. It took over a week to replace a windshield, I’ll never go to them for that again. Keep in mind, this was with an appointment that was scheduled a month in advance. They estimated it would take 1 day, then eventually delayed that to 10 days later. The Uber credits are almost useless if you commute everyday and don’t live directly in a city. The work they actually did was ok even though my seat is once again creaking, the communication was terrible.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,478
2,701
OBX
They increased the size of the left part of the screen (Model 3/Y) which shows nothing of use for the driver. It just shows cars ahead of you, which I can see out of the windshield. They also reduced the size of the speed you are currently driving for some reason. So I see less information and more gimmicks, most likely this is due to their insistence that FSD will be here soon. The cards that used to show info such as consumption/wipers and tire pressure are now buried in a menu requiring 2-3 clicks to get there. There are more minor gripes with it, but I can get over some of them as just being different. Overall, the updates haven’t improved anything for the driver. At least we got TikTok though :rolleyes:

Like I said, they make good cars except the quality control is not super high and they focus on gimmicks with the software.


Yes. It took over a week to replace a windshield, I’ll never go to them for that again. Keep in mind, this was with an appointment that was scheduled a month in advance. They estimated it would take 1 day, then eventually delayed that to 10 days later. The Uber credits are almost useless if you commute everyday and don’t live directly in a city. The work they actually did was ok even though my seat is once again creaking, the communication was terrible.
It 100% is to get folks to trust EAP/FSD can see stuff happening around the car. Hopefully they can implement some sort of short term historical memory on the display so vehicles don't disappear when they are occluded as they do currently.

I am somewhat ambivalent on the card removal as I didn't quite understand why the 3 had a substantially different interface from the S/X. Now they have converged (which really means the new S/X folks didn't complain enough for Tesla to not present the change to 3/Y owners).
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,268
7,292
Seattle
The way it’s going though by 2030 the only cars in the £25k bracket will probably be 2020-22 models with a couple of hundred thousand on the clock.

People without a significant disposable income is becoming the norm now with inflation rates sky rocketing. If you’re saying anybody who can’t afford a £25k+ car by 2030 shouldn’t be buying one, what are their options? Just don’t drive? That’s not an option in many parts of the UK if people want to work.
My point was that that by 2030 there will be quite a few used cars available at a lower price. The current prices for used cars are not sustainable and are caused by shortages that will not stand. Also, in the next few years, we should start seeing more lower priced EVs as manufacturer expand the model lines. Currently they need to target the higher end because it still costs them a lot to build these cars but as their supplies and manufacturing processes are built out they can afford to bring out less expensive cars to replace the Golf and Corsa.

In the meantime, people may still be buying ICEVs if they are less expensive. Not everyone should be buying a Tesla 3 or similar.
 
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