Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[The-Real-Deal82]

My point was that that by 2030 there will be quite a few used cars available at a lower price. The current prices for used cars are not sustainable and are caused by shortages that will not stand. Also, in the next few years, we should start seeing more lower priced EVs as manufacturer expand the model lines. Currently they need to target the higher end because it still costs them a lot to build these cars but as their supplies and manufacturing processes are built out they can afford to bring out less expensive cars to replace the Golf and Corsa.

In the meantime, people may still be buying ICEVs if they are less expensive. Not everyone should be buying a Tesla 3 or similar.

I understand the way the car industry works in terms of cars being released and older models depreciating etc. I’m just sceptical as there needs to be much faster growth over the next seven and a half years than there has been over the previous ten. We are not too far away from 2030 and I’d expect to see more options for EV’s in order for the stock to start building than I’ve seen so far. I’m sure this will speed up as it has to if it’s to suit Europe’s environment demands. It’s the biggest market in the world after all. A huge chunk of the market are also low income earners who will need EV’s that are sub £10k by then so there’s a lot of evolution to come in this sector.

 

[nrvna76]

The 2030 thing won’t stand anyways.. presidents change out; goals and lobbying changes everything no matter what side of the isle they are on. It’s just there now to scare people into taking the plunge.

 

[HDFan]

My point was that that by 2030 there will be quite a few used cars available at a lower price.

The question then will be does it make sense to buy a used EV? For some models, such as those that don't have active cooling for the batteries, you might have to replace the batteries which could exceed the cost of the car.

 

[Tagbert]

The question then will be does it make sense to buy a used EV? For some models, such as those that don't have active cooling for the batteries, you might have to replace the batteries which could exceed the cost of the car.

Fortunately that was only a few models and seems to have fallen out of favor with manufacturers.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I believe that China has the largest automobile market in the world, and the US second. Maybe all the European nations combined make for the largest automobile market? Just curious

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I believe that China has the largest automobile market in the world, and the US second. Maybe all the European nations combined make for the largest automobile market? Just curious

China is the largest of course, but they are completely detached to the rest of the industry and it’s initiatives. Europe has twice the population of the US so you’d expect there to be more vehicles on the roads. Of course when I say Europe I am referring to the continent itself. Europe has made pledges for green vehicles as a collective.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The 2030 thing won’t stand anyways.. presidents change out; goals and lobbying changes everything no matter what side of the isle they are on. It’s just there now to scare people into taking the plunge.

In the UK? I think what your describing is for the US. We are a bit different over here. No massive oil corporations pulling the strings and spreading their misinformation.

 

[Apple fanboy]

China is the largest of course, but they are completely detached to the rest of the industry and it’s initiatives. Europe has twice the population of the US so you’d expect there to be more vehicles on the roads. Of course when I say Europe I am referring to the continent itself. Europe has made pledges for green vehicles as a collective.

I’d also expect there to be a lot more European cars in the US than US cars in Europe. That will influence the numbers.
I also expect more Chinese cars in both continents in the coming years.

 

[44267547]

The 2030 thing won’t stand anyways.. presidents change out; goals and lobbying changes everything no matter what side of the isle they are on. It’s just there now to scare people into taking the plunge.

A big part of it too though, is our infrastructure is way behind. I mean, look at the Midwest for example, we’re already halfway into 2022 and the dilapidated roadways, non-existent infrastructure and EV dominance is barely existent. 2030 is essentially a ‘staged’ benchmark of when we should start seeing more manufacturers releasing various trim models of EV’s, but there’s so much more that needs to be done before that.

However, the higher cost of fuel is definitely starting to provoke of how consumers can save money long-term, but there is no availability (Other than Que ordering) and lack-there-of charging infrastructure. So there’s so much more that needs to actually be executed first, before we just start populating multiple trim models from every manufacture.

 

[SalisburySam]

The question then will be does it make sense to buy a used EV? For some models, such as those that don't have active cooling for the batteries, you might have to replace the batteries which could exceed the cost of the car.

This was/is indeed an issue for Nissan’s EV called the LEAF and only the LEAF. The batteries were small (24kWh vs the more typical 77kWh of today), no active battery temperature management, and the chemistry was/is not really optimum for longevity. I say this from hands-on experience with my 2012 LEAF SL, bought new in late 2011 with about 70 miles of range. Today that same car delivers about 30 miles at 100% charge so disappointing at best.

The used market seems to price my LEAF today at about $3000 if I were to sell it. A new battery from Nissan varies from about $5500 to $8500 depending on time of day, phases of the moon, etc. While I do like the car a lot, dumping that much money into a now 10-year-old car isn’t where I want to go financially.

I don’t think any of today’s EVs will exhibit the battery and range problems the LEAF does. My 2018 Tesla still shows 297 miles of range, down from the 310 at delivery when new. That’s only 4% loss and for my uses pretty negligible. I don’t see any case in which that vehicle’s battery would require replacement short of damage from an accident.

The LEAF aside, EVs today have pretty rigorous batteries that should last a very long time.

 

[HDFan]

The LEAF aside, EVs today have pretty rigorous batteries that should last a very long time.

True. The Leaf was a black sheep.

Leaf mentioned in video below at 17:57.

Leaf battery down to 70% in 8 years, which is a major issue as the full capacity range was only 73 miles.
Some Tesla Model S have over 170K miles with battery capacity ~ 90% after 6-8 years

 

[Tagbert]

True. The Leaf was a black sheep.

Leaf mentioned in video below at 17:57.

Leaf battery down to 70% in 8 years, which is a major issue as the full capacity range was only 73 miles.
Some Tesla Model S have over 170K miles with battery capacity ~ 90% after 6-8 years

Yes, Nissan gave the whole EV industry a black eye with their poor battery management. People were already prone to assume short battery lives based on their (largely irrelevant) experience with phone and laptop batteries which are engineered for very different use cases and lifetimes. They just assume that EVs would be the same and here comes the Leaf to confirm that assumption.

 

[HDFan]

Bloomberg (paywall) has a electric Green rating chart. Tesla model 3 is at the top with a rating of 74. Kia EV6 is at the bottom with a 57.2:

Bloomberg Green’s Electric Car Ratings

This interactive dashboard highlights key metrics and design features that measure how sustainable, affordable, and practical each EV model is within the US market.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[Tagbert]

Bloomberg (paywall) has a electric Green rating chart. Tesla model 3 is at the top with a rating of 74. Kia EV6 is at the bottom with a 57.2:

Bloomberg Green’s Electric Car Ratings

This interactive dashboard highlights key metrics and design features that measure how sustainable, affordable, and practical each EV model is within the US market.

www.bloomberg.com

It looks like those ratings are based on the highest range for the Tesla and the lowest range for the Kia. If you expand the Kia group you will see other variants with higher range and with scores equivalent to Tesla Model 3. It is an odd list for that. Who chose to rank them that way? Seems misleading.

 

[HDFan]

If you expand the Kia group you will see other variants with higher range and with scores equivalent to Tesla Model 3.

The list has changed since I referenced it. Now the Lucid Air is at the top with a 71.1 and the Hummer is at the bottomer with a 27.4. EV6 has changed to a 52.3. Didn't realize you could expand the groups.

 

[Tagbert]

The list has changed since I referenced it. Now the Lucid Air is at the top with a 71.1 and the Hummer is at the bottomer with a 27.4. EV6 has changed to a 52.3. Didn't realize you could expand the groups.

And one of the EV6s has a score of 64 tied with one of the mid range Teslas but for some reason they are featuring the score of 52 (which is on the lowest capacity model of EV6). It seems very inconsistent which model becomes the featured model and which one is hidden behind the panel that you didn’t realized could be opened. One could allude that they chose to featured the worst scoring model in the Ev6 line.

 

[diggy33]

We saw a Hummer EV Pickup on the road yesterday, and I have to admit that thing was beautiful

 

[Apple fanboy]

We saw a Hummer EV Pickup on the road yesterday, and I have to admit that thing was beautiful

Each to their own. Not something I would ever desire.

 

[nrvna76]

Fisker is asking it’s Ocean One preorder holders, who paid $250, to pony up $5k to essentially remain a preorder holder. And it’s non refundable.. turns out EV startups aren’t easy.. which is probably why GM is trying to fund it with the hummer.

 

[Huntn]

There are huge infrastructure adjustments needed before EVs become convienent, and then there is the upfront expense.

 

[Apple fanboy]

There are huge infrastructure adjustments needed before EVs become convienent, and then there is the upfront expense.

You’d be surprised. Charging networks are much better than you’d think.

 

[JT2002TJ]

You’d be surprised. Charging networks are much better than you’d think.

I have doubted it too, but times have changed, even within the last few months. If you are close to a big city in the US, they are accessible. Not as convenient as gas stations, but they are out there. My local grocery store put in 2, there are 4 by the hospital I work in, that went in over the last 4 months (these are on NYC streets).

In the US, I can agree that it may be hard to find in small towns, but realistically, in these small drive by towns, if you are there, you only need to charge from home, possibly once a week, or once every other week, since you never have traffic. If you commute far to work, as long as you are within the range of a charge, you can charge when you get home.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I have doubted it too, but times have changed, even within the last few months. If you are close to a big city in the US, they are accessible. Not as convenient as gas stations, but they are out there. My local grocery store put in 2, there are 4 by the hospital I work in, that went in over the last 4 months (these are on NYC streets).

In the US, I can agree that it may be hard to find in small towns, but realistically, in these small drive by towns, if you are there, you only need to charge from home, possibly once a week, or once every other week, since you never have traffic. If you commute far to work, as long as you are within the range of a charge, you can charge when you get home.

People do get obsessed by range. You wouldn’t need 350 miles of petrol to do a 50 mile round trip. It’s no different with an EV.

 

[JT2002TJ]

People do get obsessed by range. You wouldn’t need 350 miles of petrol to do a 50 mile round trip. It’s no different with an EV.

I am arguing for EV's, so, don't get me wrong, but in the US things can be a little different. We do travel. My last job was 80-90 miles round trip. I know people in Texas (I used to live there) that commuted 120-140 one way (from Waco area to Dallas TX).

Traveling at 80-90 miles per hour without traffic, their commute was shorter (by time) than mine. When you go to big cities in the US, there are a ton of people who live in the country, but work in the city.

But, EVs aren't for everyone, and there is no need to convince them, it doesn't fit their use case. ICE aren't going anywhere, for a while.

It would work for them, if they have access to a charger while they work, so they charge over night, and charge while at work.

How nice would wireless charging be (in parking spots)? Pull into your spot at work, walk inside, and come back out to a charged vehicle.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I am arguing for EV's, so, don't get me wrong, but in the US things can be a little different. We do travel. My last job was 80-90 miles round trip. I know people in Texas (I used to live there) that commuted 120-140 one way (from Waco area to Dallas TX).

Traveling at 80-90 miles per hour without traffic, their commute was shorter (by time) than mine. When you go to big cities in the US, there are a ton of people who live in the country, but work in the city.

But, EVs aren't for everyone, and there is no need to convince them, it doesn't fit their use case. ICE aren't going anywhere, for a while.

It would work for them, if they have access to a charger while they work, so they charge over night, and charge while at work.

How nice would wireless charging be (in parking spots)? Pull into your spot at work, walk inside, and come back out to a charged vehicle.

Very unlikely to happen. Wireless charging is not efficient. But yes it would be cool.