Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think you’d be surprised how things will develop over the next seven years. Look how they have over the last seven years.
But we need more lightweight fuel efficient EV’s not the huge heavy SUV’s the car companies are mostly turning out at the moment.

The small car market is shrinking though and trends are pointing towards larger cars. That’s the reason Ford stated for potentially ending production of their Fiesta. People need larger boots these days, I know we do. That’s my biggest concern about EV’s. We need large affordable (sub £40k) EV’s on the market for families to be able to transition across eventually. Right now the big EV’s are £70k+ and that’s very geared towards the highest earners. It’s not realistic to expect people to go from a 500-600L boot ICE vehicle to something like a Nissan Leaf or similar.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I think you’d be surprised how things will develop over the next seven years. Look how they have over the last seven years.
But we need more lightweight fuel efficient EV’s not the huge heavy SUV’s the car companies are mostly turning out at the moment.

Definitely. So many more models coming on the market. The times of an ICE vehicle are gone. second hand they'll be around for a while but it is inevitable. Especially with expanding ultra low emission zones.

The current average price for a new EV for 2023 is 64,300. How is anyone going to afford that? EV's should not have been pushed so hard and so fast. We should have focused on Hybrids and taken longer for EV. Sould have been all new cars need to be Hybrid by 2035. All electric by 2050.

Nah hybrids are compromise that don't win anywhere. Europe is going to ban new ICE sales from 2030 and by 2035 should be everywhere in effect. $64,300 isn't that much money today, a lot of people will just buy second hand just like they do today, or unfortunately take out loans/salary sacrifice schemes etc. But the important part is to see the shift in mind set for personal transportation, I can also see people holding on longer.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The small car market is shrinking though and trends are pointing towards larger cars. That’s the reason Ford stated for potentially ending production of their Fiesta. People need larger boots these days, I know we do. That’s my biggest concern about EV’s. We need large affordable (sub £40k) EV’s on the market for families to be able to transition across eventually. Right now the big EV’s are £70k+ and that’s very geared towards the highest earners. It’s not realistic to expect people to go from a 500-600L boot ICE vehicle to something like a Nissan Leaf or similar.

Why do people need larger boots nowadays? What has changed?

I don't think one requires a £70K+ vehicle. Family of four, all six foot plus, three-week holiday, everything easily fits in the boot of a small Polestar. In fact, the family choose this over my daily driver, a full-sized Range Rover. No problems at all. Heck, even the boot cover can fit on it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The small car market is shrinking though and trends are pointing towards larger cars. That’s the reason Ford stated for potentially ending production of their Fiesta. People need larger boots these days, I know we do. That’s my biggest concern about EV’s. We need large affordable (sub £40k) EV’s on the market for families to be able to transition across eventually. Right now the big EV’s are £70k+ and that’s very geared towards the highest earners. It’s not realistic to expect people to go from a 500-600L boot ICE vehicle to something like a Nissan Leaf or similar.

That maybe true. But the vast majority of car journeys are one person commuting to work. You don’t need a large SUV for that.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

That maybe true. But the vast majority of car journeys are one person commuting to work. You don’t need a large SUV for that.

That’s true, but it gets even more expensive having a couple of small EV’s for commuting and then a large EV for evenings and weekend use. That’s the reason people have large cars that are used for all journeys. I drive a large estate Audi back and forth for work and of course it’s not ideal with just me in the car, but I’m quite often picking things up during the day too that requires additional boot space. When I move to EV technology it will be for cost, nothing else. Right now it’s more expensive, even with the price of diesel as it is. The outlay for a comparable car would be at least double what I am able to pay.

I also wonder how the minimum wage workers are going to transition too. There’s people on £19k a year driving 2004 era cheap cars that couldn’t dream of paying £15k for a car, let alone £30k+. These people will have no choice but buy older first generation EV’s that will potentially have expensive bills anyway. I just can’t see the 2030 milestone as realistic at this point.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That’s true, but it gets even more expensive having a couple of small EV’s for commuting and then a large EV for evenings and weekend use. That’s the reason people have large cars that are used for all journeys. I drive a large estate Audi back and forth for work and of course it’s not ideal with just me in the car, but I’m quite often picking things up during the day too that requires additional boot space. When I move to EV technology it will be for cost, nothing else. Right now it’s more expensive, even with the price of diesel as it is. The outlay for a comparable car would be at least double what I am able to pay.

I also wonder how the minimum wage workers are going to transition too. There’s people on £19k a year driving 2004 era cheap cars that couldn’t dream of paying £15k for a car, let alone £30k+. These people will have no choice but buy older first generation EV’s that will potentially have expensive bills anyway. I just can’t see the 2030 milestone as realistic at this point.

I hear you. You can pick up a Nissan Leaf for about £6k at the moment. Yes it has a limited range, but for a lot of people that would give them enough range for a commute. They could actually save money over a year or two.
But it’s hard to argue for EV’s as a cost saving exercise alone. But if you add in the environmental savings as well, it’s money well spent imo.

Of course the fact that I could charge for free at work and am on nowhere near minimum wage were also factors for me personally.

 

[Donfor39]

@The-Real-Deal82

20hrs p/w min wage
2015 Zoe since Dec' '21.
<25k miles.
No massive bills as yet, thankfully.😄

 

[Apple fanboy]

@The-Real-Deal82

20hrs p/w min wage
2015 Zoe since Dec' '21.
<25k miles.
No massive bills as yet, thankfully.

Glad to hear that. Hope it continues to give you years of good service.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I hear you. You can pick up a Nissan Leaf for about £6k at the moment. Yes it has a limited range, but for a lot of people that would give them enough range for a commute. They could actually save money over a year or two.
But it’s hard to argue for EV’s as a cost saving exercise alone. But if you add in the environmental savings as well, it’s money well spent imo.

Of course the fact that I could charge for free at work and am on nowhere near minimum wage were also factors for me personally.

It’s clear there’s options for some and not for others, that’s always been my point. For something that is going to be a no choice scenario, we need a lot more options to become available in the next few years. I haven’t been on minimum wage since 2004 either, but I also don’t want mortgage size payments for a car and right now, the only EV’s in my price range are tiny run-abouts or 6 year old vehicles that I don’t feel comfortable paying over £20k for.

My wife is getting a company car this year as she’s due to be a Director in March. She wants a hybrid, either a BMW X3 or a Land Rover Discovery, which should be fun, especially the latter with their reliability record. I’m not against full electric as that’s where it’s going, I’m just not convinced it’s available to all yet.

@The-Real-Deal82

20hrs p/w min wage
2015 Zoe since Dec' '21.
No massive bills as yet, thankfully.

Fingers crossed for you.

 

[pshufd]

The small car market is shrinking though and trends are pointing towards larger cars. That’s the reason Ford stated for potentially ending production of their Fiesta. People need larger boots these days, I know we do. That’s my biggest concern about EV’s. We need large affordable (sub £40k) EV’s on the market for families to be able to transition across eventually. Right now the big EV’s are £70k+ and that’s very geared towards the highest earners. It’s not realistic to expect people to go from a 500-600L boot ICE vehicle to something like a Nissan Leaf or similar.

Top ten US vehicle sales:

1) Ford F-Series (large pickup truck)
2) Chevy Silverado (large pickup truck)
3) Ram Pickup (large pickup truck)
4) Toyota RAV4 (mid-size SUV)
5) Toyota Camry (mid-size car)
6) Honda CR-V (mid-size SUV)
7) Toyota Tacoma (mid-size pickup truck)
8) Jeep Grand Cherokee (mid-size SUV)
9) Toyota Corolla (small car)
10) GMC Sierra (large pickup truck)

So 80% of the top ten are pickup trucks or SUVs.

 

[pshufd]

Why do people need larger boots nowadays? What has changed?

I don't think one requires a £70K+ vehicle. Family of four, all six foot plus, three-week holiday, everything easily fits in the boot of a small Polestar. In fact, the family choose this over my daily driver, a full-sized Range Rover. No problems at all. Heck, even the boot cover can fit on it.

View attachment 2135343

I think that the issue is family of four with combined weight of 1,000 pounds in passengers. Most cars have a payload of only 1,000 pounds. The F250 has a payload of 2,000 to 4,000 pounds.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Top ten US vehicle sales:

1) Ford F-Series (large pickup truck)
2) Chevy Silverado (large pickup truck)
3) Ram Pickup (large pickup truck)
4) Toyota RAV4 (mid-size SUV)
5) Toyota Camry (mid-size car)
6) Honda CR-V (mid-size SUV)
7) Toyota Tacoma (mid-size pickup truck)
8) Jeep Grand Cherokee (mid-size SUV)
9) Toyota Corolla (small car)
10) GMC Sierra (large pickup truck)

So 80% of the top ten are pickup trucks or SUVs.

Very few pickups in Europe though. I’m not a fan of any on that list tbh.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It’s clear there’s options for some and not for others, that’s always been my point. For something that is going to be a no choice scenario, we need a lot more options to become available in the next few years. I haven’t been on minimum wage since 2004 either, but I also don’t want mortgage size payments for a car and right now, the only EV’s in my price range are tiny run-abouts or 6 year old vehicles that I don’t feel comfortable paying over £20k for.

My wife is getting a company car this year as she’s due to be a Director in March. She wants a hybrid, either a BMW X3 or a Land Rover Discovery, which should be fun, especially the latter with their reliability record. I’m not against full electric as that’s where it’s going, I’m just not convinced it’s available to all yet.


Fingers crossed for you.

All the directors at our company drive EV’s. Sadly I’m not one of them.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

All the directors at our company drive EV’s. Sadly I’m not one of them.

Directors at my company had their cars taken off them apart from the site director who has a petrol BMW 5 Series. All the hybrid pool cars went this year too. To top it off they removed the one and only charging port in the car park to stop anybody from using company electricity lol. We seem to have gone backwards in the last 12 months. My wife employer is very with the times though as it’s medical.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

That’s true, but it gets even more expensive having a couple of small EV’s for commuting and then a large EV for evenings and weekend use. That’s the reason people have large cars that are used for all journeys. I drive a large estate Audi back and forth for work and of course it’s not ideal with just me in the car, but I’m quite often picking things up during the day too that requires additional boot space. When I move to EV technology it will be for cost, nothing else. Right now it’s more expensive, even with the price of diesel as it is. The outlay for a comparable car would be at least double what I am able to pay.

I also wonder how the minimum wage workers are going to transition too. There’s people on £19k a year driving 2004 era cheap cars that couldn’t dream of paying £15k for a car, let alone £30k+. These people will have no choice but buy older first generation EV’s that will potentially have expensive bills anyway. I just can’t see the 2030 milestone as realistic at this point.

2030 milestone is for new vehicle sales only, those people were never in the market for a brand new vehicle.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I think that the issue is family of four with combined weight of 1,000 pounds in passengers. Most cars have a payload of only 1,000 pounds. The F250 has a payload of 2,000 to 4,000 pounds.

Gosh blimey, we are all six foot plus but no chance of a combined weight of 1,000 pounds. OMFG I knew there are some fatties around, but that is just ridiculous and morbid. You are all doomed 😂😂

 

[quagmire]

Directors at my company had their cars taken off them apart from the site director who has a petrol BMW 5 Series. All the hybrid pool cars went this year too. To top it off they removed the one and only charging port in the car park to stop anybody from using company electricity lol. We seem to have gone backwards in the last 12 months. My wife employer is very with the times though as it’s medical.

These people seem to think having an EV charge at work is going to add tons to their electric bill.

I know commercial areas tend to get higher electricity rates, but it is funny to hear stories like this and hear some of their rational thinking one person charging their car for the month is going to add like $1,000 to their bill.

 

[Tagbert]

These people seem to think having an EV charge at work is going to add tons to their electric bill.

I know commercial areas tend to get higher electricity rates, but it is funny to hear stories like this and hear some of their rational thinking one person charging their car for the month is going to add like $1,000 to their bill.

People without EVs tend to overestimate the cost of charging and underestimate the lifetime of batteries. They have been scared off by to much bad information.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Directors at my company had their cars taken off them apart from the site director who has a petrol BMW 5 Series. All the hybrid pool cars went this year too. To top it off they removed the one and only charging port in the car park to stop anybody from using company electricity lol. We seem to have gone backwards in the last 12 months. My wife employer is very with the times though as it’s medical.

Our directors own the company. The charging port is only used by me. We have cards to scan so other users can’t use it. But all staff can. There just aren’t any others with an EV. It has two plugs.

 

[pshufd]

Gosh blimey, we are all six foot plus but no chance of a combined weight of 1,000 pounds. OMFG I knew there are some fatties around, but that is just ridiculous and morbid. You are all doomed 😂😂

The obesity rate for adults in the US is 36%. The childhood obesity rate is 19%. Overweight + obese adults rate is 69%.

Here's a question for you: what do you do if someone asks you for a ride in your small car and they weigh 400 pounds? It has happened to me at church as I used to give rides to people that didn't own cars and there were two people in this category and I always declined.

I was at an auto fair in Dallas several years ago and the huge pickup trucks and SUVs received the most attention and there were a lot of pretty heavy people looking at them.

 

[pshufd]

Very few pickups in Europe though. I’m not a fan of any on that list tbh.

American tastes are wildly different from European tastes in vehicles and that may be due to the relatively lower price of gasoline here. This is why people yell and scream when gasoline prices rise. Instead of planning for a rise and budgeting accordingly.

 

[Apple fanboy]

American tastes are wildly different from European tastes in vehicles and that may be due to the relatively lower price of gasoline here. This is why people yell and scream when gasoline prices rise. Instead of planning for a rise and budgeting accordingly.

They certainly do. Probably why I’ve never desired any American car.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Here's a question for you: what do you do if someone asks you for a ride in your small car and they weigh 400 pounds?

What if you buy a car that can handle a 400-pound person and then a 500 pound person asks for a ride?

That line of argument for increased size and capability has no ceiling.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

These people seem to think having an EV charge at work is going to add tons to their electric bill.

I know commercial areas tend to get higher electricity rates, but it is funny to hear stories like this and hear some of their rational thinking one person charging their car for the month is going to add like $1,000 to their bill.

It was a bit ridiculous removing it to be honest. It was a standalone charger that cost the company over £2k to put in back in 2019 and they decided back last summer to remove it again. I would imagine every company will be installing these in the next few years so it was shortsighted in my opinion. Electricity at my work is costing about £1400 a day at the moment, so a charger in the car park where nobody even has an electric car was doing no harm at all.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

People without EVs tend to overestimate the cost of charging and underestimate the lifetime of batteries. They have been scared off by to much bad information.

I have to admit some of the stories I’ve read about battery failures have contributed to my apprehension of owning an EV. Whether or not battery failures with £5k-£15k bills are fake news or not, it’s the fear of owning a car that I wouldn’t be able to afford to repair. Every car is a gamble I realise, but if I ever owned a car that required me to pay several thousand pounds to repair, it would be torched on waste ground and claimed for lol.