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4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
I used 3rd party charging last night in Costa Mesa while going to a Pink Martini concert.

It was $15 for parking to get into the garage area.

The ChargePoint stall was working so I figured why not, I intentionally came in with 54% on the battery so I could charge. It said, $1.50 an hour but after 4 hours, it would be $5/hour. Sweated it a little bit at the end there because the band kept playing way past quitting time, lol. (It was a nice concert!). I believe the car was at 87% if I remember right when we left.

View attachment 2141546

View attachment 2141547


View attachment 2141545

The concert was over at 10:10pm and it took us 13 mins to get to the car.

20.83 kW for $5.34 is what, $.26/kwhr? Not too bad. I get $.22/kWhr at home.
That's for L2 charging and the rate seems fair.
L2 charging takes much longer than L3 (DCFC).

So if you are going to an event for hours, it makes sense to use a L2.

I see them in shopping mall parking structures, but never use them as 6kW/h is too slow for my EV.

At home, I charge at 11kW on my 240V L2 which is doable for an overnight charge.

In public, I go to Electrify America and EVGo for the 350kW fast chargers that will take my EV from 30-80% in 30 minutes.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
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That's for L2 charging and the rate seems fair.
L2 charging takes much longer than L3 (DCFC).

So if you are going to an event for hours, it makes sense to use a L2.

I see them in shopping mall parking structures, but never use them as 6kW/h is too slow for my EV.

At home, I charge at 11kW on my 240V L2 which is doable for an overnight charge.

In public, I go to Electrify America and EVGo for the 350kW fast chargers that will take my EV from 30-80% in 30 minutes.
After living with level 1 home charging for the last year (works for us but we have to hit a supercharger if we do anything other than work driving) - whatever place we move to this year for my wife's post-doc work - will DEFINITELY have a level 2.

I'll even take a dryer outlet (I have the adapter for it). I was able to get 23mi/hr on my parent's house's dryer outlet. That sounds like heaven after a year of 4-5mi/hr.


Most of the level 2s around where we live (the venue that I was at too) - significantly increase their costs after 4 hours to keep the spots free.

I wonder how much it would cost to add a CCS adapter as there is a lot of those around that are fairly empty. I imagine most don't take too kindly to a Tesla plugged into those (I would frown on it if I was a non-Tesla owner I guess). 350kW sounds nice. :D


Edit: Wow $250 for the adapter and who knows how much for the refit to add the capacity to use the adapter.

1673885099617.jpeg


Edit2: Looks like $300-$500. Ouch.
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
After living with level 1 home charging for the last year (works for us but we have to hit a supercharger if we do anything other than work driving) - whatever place we move to this year for my wife's post-doc work - will DEFINITELY have a level 2.

I'll even take a dryer outlet (I have the adapter for it). I was able to get 23mi/hr on my parent's house's dryer outlet. That sounds like heaven after a year of 4-5mi/hr.


Most of the level 2s around where we live (the venue that I was at too) - significantly increase their costs after 4 hours to keep the spots free.

I wonder how much it would cost to add a CCS adapter as there is a lot of those around that are fairly empty. I imagine most don't take too kindly to a Tesla plugged into those (I would frown on it if I was a non-Tesla owner I guess). 350kW sounds nice. :D


Edit: Wow $250 for the adapter and who knows how much for the refit to add the capacity to use the adapter.

View attachment 2143009

Edit2: Looks like $300-$500. Ouch.
Since no one other than Teslas can use the SuperCharger network, it's proprietary until Elon opens up the charging network to non Teslas.

We CCS folks are waiting to see when and how much that will cost...

In the meantime, you should look for FREE Tesla Destination chargers that are usually next to the SuperChargers.

I get a free unlimited L2 charging for my EVs at a Tesla Destination charger in Ontario, CA.

This one has the J1772 plug which means it will work directlywith any other non Tesla brand - plus did I mention it was free charging ?
IMG_9396.JPG
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,079
2,743
UK
Since no one other than Teslas can use the SuperCharger network, it's proprietary until Elon opens up the charging network to non Teslas.

We CCS folks are waiting to see when and how much that will cost...

In the meantime, you should look for FREE Tesla Destination chargers that are usually next to the SuperChargers.

I get a free unlimited L2 charging for my EVs at a Tesla Destination charger in Ontario, CA.

This one has the J1772 plug which means it will work directlywith any other non Tesla brand - plus did I mention it was free charging ?
View attachment 2143121
Tesla is opened up in the UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Belgium, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Iceland, Italy but yup not the USA. Go figure ;) You all need more demanding customers
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
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Since no one other than Teslas can use the SuperCharger network, it's proprietary until Elon opens up the charging network to non Teslas.

We CCS folks are waiting to see when and how much that will cost...

In the meantime, you should look for FREE Tesla Destination chargers that are usually next to the SuperChargers.

I get a free unlimited L2 charging for my EVs at a Tesla Destination charger in Ontario, CA.

This one has the J1772 plug which means it will work directly with any other non Tesla brand - plus did I mention it was free charging ?
View attachment 2143121
LOL that supercharger is close to where I live. I go there all the time. :D

1673902974449.jpeg

(Our red Tesla in the pic).

The free ones are in the back - yeah - we have to use that adapter for it to work with our cars - it's a nice charge rate.
 
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Tutburymac

macrumors regular
Jul 23, 2019
101
55
Tesla is opened up in the UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, Belgium, Austria, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Iceland, Italy but yup not the USA. Go figure ;) You all need more demanding customers
It is not opened up in the UK completely , it’s approximately 11 supecharger locations that are.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
Do you pay tax on the electricity you use to charge? Maybe not at the same rate but I’m sure there is some tax on electricity. There is here in the UK.
Just checked and there is no specific tax on the electricity in the Seattle City Light bill, just charges from $0.10 to $0.13 per KWH. The base rate applies to the first 1000 KWH and then it jumps to the higher rate.

The annual vehicle registration in WA has a $150 surcharge for electric vehicles. To offset the lack of gasoline tax revenue. There is also a $75 charge for “transportation electrification”. I’m not sure what the purpose is of that fee.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Yes, that is the reason given for most states that charge extra for EV registration.

This comment was in response to someone who was proposing using GPS to log miles driven to calculate a tax for both EVs and ICEs. I’d rather not have the state collecting GPS data with it’s potential to log much more detail than just miles.
Got it. You are correct; GPS would make things a little complicated.
Do you pay tax on the electricity you use to charge? Maybe not at the same rate but I’m sure there is some tax on electricity. There is here in the UK.
There are taxes on the electricity used at home. But at the workplace parking lots the electricity is consumed by the heaters used to keep the oil, antifreeze, and battery slightly warm during the winter. The cost of the electricity by the employees for parking is covered by the parking fee. The employee is aware of this fact, too. No business can operate spending more than what it makes.
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Just checked and there is no specific tax on the electricity in the Seattle City Light bill, just charges from $0.10 to $0.13 per KWH. The base rate applies to the first 1000 KWH and then it jumps to the higher rate.

The annual vehicle registration in WA has a $150 surcharge for electric vehicles. To offset the lack of gasoline tax revenue. There is also a $75 charge for “transportation electrification”. I’m not sure what the purpose is of that fee.
That is relatively cheap for EV registrations at the moment. Another poster said somewhere above that he pays over $1,000 (if I well remember), for registering hist F-150 ICE truck in CA.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
Yes, that is the reason given for most states that charge extra for EV registration.

This comment was in response to someone who was proposing using GPS to log miles driven to calculate a tax for both EVs and ICEs. I’d rather not have the state collecting GPS data with it’s potential to log much more detail than just miles.
GPS was your recommendation. I would never recommend something so intrusive. ( There is much better tech available. ) A couple of senators, lobbyists and a few billion dollars could do even better. ( no sarcasm in the last statement, the frustration is that they still have NOT done it ).

Miles outside the state are not taxable.
Is that currently calculated when fueling in one state and then driving through another?

My comment was that the US is too short sided in seemingly everything; EV fuel tax is only an example. Chip shortages when the US has over 30 fabrication facilities, and more recently egg and milk shortages.

Selfies, snide comments and politicizing everything ( mostly from the elected, or not elected ) supersedes the needs of the nation and its people.
 
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skottichan

macrumors 65816
Oct 23, 2007
1,143
1,387
Columbus, OH
Sadly, depends. We (my wife and I) were looking at getting one (looking at the Bolt, Lean and Mini Electric), but now we're looking at moving back to the east coast. So, now it depends on how close to the train line that we wind up living.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,396
Is that currently calculated when fueling in one state and then driving through another?

It is solved by each state only taxing the fuel sold within their state. They don't get to tax gas sold in neighboring states. They only have authority for use of their roads.

The points are the tax revenue loss at gas sales (you still are taxed based off of registration). But those who drive more, are taxed more, and those who drive less are taxed less (based on gas sales).

So, how would you increase the tax of those who drive more, vs those who drive less, without charging those who are out of state (like it happens now, by not buying gas within your state when you are away)? For example, a student who is away for 4 years of college, driving only in a different state.

There are 3 issues:
1) the visiting state does not get their tax revenue (at all, since here is no registration)
2) they do not have a way to tax these out of staters based on road usage
3) they don't get to tax their own residents from road usage

With EV's, state departments of transportations do not have authority to tax electricity usage. So, without GPS, the question is, how else would they be able to tax based on a sliding scale based on road usage?
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
LOL that supercharger is close to where I live. I go there all the time. :D

View attachment 2143220
(Our red Tesla in the pic).

The free ones are in the back - yeah - we have to use that adapter for it to work with our cars - it's a nice charge rate.
Wow, if that's the one in the Ontario city parking lot, we are using the same !

Since my Ford Lightning is a CCS plug, I have to use the slow L2 (10kW) Tesla destination charger for free.

I usually go to one of the restaurants nearby while I top off.

See how mine sticks out compared to the Teslas ??

IMG_9400.JPG
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
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Wow, if that's the one in the Ontario city parking lot, we are using the same !

Since my Ford Lightning is a CCS plug, I have to use the slow L2 (10kW) for free.

See how mine sticks out compared to the Teslas ??

View attachment 2143630
Yep, that's the one! Very nice truck!

Haha very cool! I will keep my eye out for a Lightning pickup!

We have a red 2018 Tesla Model 3 - license plate is (heart symbol) BIRBS (or look for a big fat bearded guy in the driver's seat). If you see us feel free to say hi. Tho now days we usually charge after 11pm for the supercharging rate discount.

Small world! :)
 
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icanhazmac

Contributor
Apr 11, 2018
2,894
11,158
In the meantime, you should look for FREE Tesla Destination chargers that are usually next to the SuperChargers.

I get a free unlimited L2 charging for my EVs at a Tesla Destination charger in Ontario, CA.

This one has the J1772 plug which means it will work directlywith any other non Tesla brand - plus did I mention it was free charging ?

The free ones are in the back - yeah - we have to use that adapter for it to work with our cars

Wait, I'm confused. Tesla has "Destination" chargers that are free but don't have a standard Tesla plug?!?!

Dongle-gate?

I'm thinking about this again after Tesla lowered the Y prices to make them qualify for the EV tax break.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
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Wait, I'm confused. Tesla has "Destination" chargers that are free but don't have a standard Tesla plug?!?!

Dongle-gate?
Haha, some of the latest Tesla Superchargers that Tesla installed over the last year (at least ours anyway) have a row of free 30-50amp Tesla chargers that use the J1772 adapter plug.

The site does have several city buildings so I'm guessing the city opted for these at their expense (there's a library and other city buildings nearby). <My guess>.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/xk70ea - Checkout my reddit post about them, (with additional pictures).

1673970301228.png
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,435
2,656
OBX
Wait, I'm confused. Tesla has "Destination" chargers that are free but don't have a standard Tesla plug?!?!

Dongle-gate?

I'm thinking about this again after Tesla lowered the Y prices to make them qualify for the EV tax break.
Destination chargers are site owner choice, since Tesla now offers the Wall Connector with J1772 plug, as to which is installed.

I slow...
 

BigMcGuire

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Jan 10, 2012
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icanhazmac

Contributor
Apr 11, 2018
2,894
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Haha, some of the latest Tesla Superchargers that Tesla installed over the last year (at least ours anyway) have a row of free 30-50amp Tesla chargers that use the J1772 adapter plug.

The site does have several city buildings so I'm guessing the city opted for these at their expense (there's a library and other city buildings nearby). <My guess>.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/xk70ea - Checkout my reddit post about them, (with additional pictures).

View attachment 2143645

So how many adapters or dongles does one generally need?
 
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BigMcGuire

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So how many adapters or dongles does one generally need?
As a Tesla M3 2018 owner, for me, I use the J1772 adapter regularly as it works on most of the surrounding 3rd party stations around Southern CA.

That or I just go to a Tesla Supercharger but ever since Tesla 2-3xed the cost of charging from 8am-11pm I usually avoid those if I can help it.


Some of the faster 3rd party chargers require a CCS refit and adapter (Tesla owners are waiting in a very long line to get these). This is fairly expensive tho ($200-$500?) but there are a lot of CCS chargers around.

And the older one I believe is a CHAdeMO charger - you can get an adapter for that but it's SUPER expensive and becoming more rare. Usually you see CCS and CHAdeMO chargers together with 1-2 J1772 chargers on the end. (At least where I live). The J1772 chargers are usually REALLY slow 6-6.6kWhr - but they're popping up all over slowly.

So, I only have the J1772 adapter (came with my used Tesla from Tesla) and it works for me. I don't think I'm going to get the CCS refit even if I have the chance because what we're doing is working for us now. I just wish supercharging costs would go down between 8am-11pm.

I'm a fairly new EV owner (Feb 2022) so consider the above observations from a novice. :p Corrections very welcome.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
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Wait, I'm confused. Tesla has "Destination" chargers that are free but don't have a standard Tesla plug?!?!

Dongle-gate?

I'm thinking about this again after Tesla lowered the Y prices to make them qualify for the EV tax break.
My wife wants a Model Y - that's going to be "her" car when finances allow (probably won't be a for at least a year or two, heh). If you get one, definitely let us know how it goes :D.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,435
2,656
OBX
As a Tesla M3 2018 owner, for me, I use the J1772 adapter regularly as it works on most of the surrounding 3rd party stations around Southern CA.

That or I just go to a Tesla Supercharger but ever since Tesla 2-3xed the cost of charging from 8am-11pm I usually avoid those if I can help it.


Some of the faster 3rd party chargers require a CCS refit and adapter (Tesla owners are waiting in a very long line to get these). This is fairly expensive tho ($200-$500?) but there are a lot of CCS chargers around.

And the older one I believe is a CHAdeMO charger - you can get an adapter for that but it's SUPER expensive and becoming more rare. Usually you see CCS and CHAdeMO chargers together with 1-2 J1772 chargers on the end. (At least where I live). The J1772 chargers are usually REALLY slow 6-6.6kWhr - but they're popping up all over slowly.

So, I only have the J1772 adapter (came with my used Tesla from Tesla) and it works for me. I don't think I'm going to get the CCS refit even if I have the chance because what we're doing is working for us now. I just wish supercharging costs would go down between 8am-11pm.

I'm a fairly new EV owner (Feb 2022) so consider the above observations from a novice. :p Corrections very welcome.
Yeah SC costs are ridiculous. In 2019 I drove from Virginia Beach to Orlando and back for like 80 bucks. I don't think you can even get to Orlando for that price these days (I could be exaggerating).

If you are willing to tinker the retrofit is doable, you just have to order the newer chargeport and Gen4 ECU, then request resend/reinstall the current FW to enable the new port.
 

icanhazmac

Contributor
Apr 11, 2018
2,894
11,158
Here's a question... is anyone driving a personal EV for work and submitting charging costs as expenses for reimbursement? If so would you share a pic of the receipt? Also, does anyone submit electric bills from your home the same way? How are you tracking the power used vs the rest of your home?

Yeah SC costs are ridiculous.

How close is it getting to being the same cost/mile as gas?
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
Here's a question... is anyone driving a personal EV for work and submitting charging costs as expenses for reimbursement? If so would you share a pic of the receipt? Also, does anyone submit electric bills from your home the same way? How are you tracking the power used vs the rest of your home?



How close is it getting to being the same cost/mile as gas?
Yes, I have a small business and keep track of my charging costs.

At home, I charge on L2 using an app that keeps track of the total kWH multiplied by the rate ($0.21 kWh).

On the road I have all my public L3 DCFC apps that all pay from one business credit card. Makes it easy at the end of the year - just tally up the EA, EVGo, ChargePoint charges!
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
Haha, some of the latest Tesla Superchargers that Tesla installed over the last year (at least ours anyway) have a row of free 30-50amp Tesla chargers that use the J1772 adapter plug.

The site does have several city buildings so I'm guessing the city opted for these at their expense (there's a library and other city buildings nearby). <My guess>.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/xk70ea - Checkout my reddit post about them, (with additional pictures).

View attachment 2143645
Gee, I hope city of Ontario does not start charging money for use of the Tesla Destination L2 chargers...
 
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