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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Haven't done anything like that. We had 2 civics and we were guzzling $450/mo in gas. My work then went 100% remote so we decided to sell both the civics and get an EV. My wife's university offered "free" charging (turns out level 1 charging is really really slow and there are so many EVs now unless you get to parking at 6am, no spots available).

So February 2022 we got a used Tesla Model 3 2018 with 38k miles for about the same car payment as our 2 civics combined.

We're saving about $150/mo on car insurance, $200-$300/mo on gas (I'd drive more if I had a car), $300x2 a few times a year on oil changes, $200/year on registration costs, untold time being saved not waiting in a Costco gas line, and that's just what I can think of right now.

We've put about 20k miles on this thing so far and we love it. We didn't buy the car because of "savings" or anything else - wanted a Tesla and thought it would be cool to get one (I have a friend and an old boss who has one).

Helps we're in CA but also cuz we're in CA, supercharging costs have skyrocketed since we've owned this thing.
She's lucky! The cost of electricity for me at the U I worked at was included in the yearly parking fee. By the time I retired I was paying over $250.00 per year, regardless if I was parking or not. I retired after 25 years.

My wife and I have tree vehicles: Toyota Corolla, RAV4 V4, and a Silverado truck. She drives the RAV4 to work and back home about 6 miles per day x 5 days, and then about 25-30 miles (round trip) to shop in Fairbanks. And since I am retired I don't drive very much. I buy 35 gallons per month that is discounted by $1.00 per gallon at the local Fred Mayer store, but since we seldom use that much fuel we donate it to our two sons. We haven't had any vehicle loan payments for years now, so in reality our transportation cost is relatively cheap.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,982
55,988
Behind the Lens, UK
She's lucky! The cost of electricity for me at the U I worked at was included in the yearly parking fee. By the time I retired I was paying over $250.00 per year, regardless if I was parking or not. I retired after 25 years.

My wife and I have tree vehicles: Toyota Corolla, RAV4 V4, and a Silverado truck. She drives the RAV4 to work and back home about 6 miles per day x 5 days, and then about 25-30 miles (round trip) to shop in Fairbanks. And since I am retired I don't drive very much. I buy 35 gallons per month that is discounted by $1.00 per gallon at the local Fred Mayer store, but since we seldom use that much fuel we donate it to our two sons. We haven't had any vehicle loan payments for years now, so in reality our transportation cost is relatively cheap.
Yearly parking fee for parking at work? Really? That’s terrible. I’ve never paid to park at work.
 

4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
As a Californian, I'll be surprised if it happens. The 3rd party charging is abysmal here. LAX finally got EV charging but the parking fees and charging rates are INSANE - so you have rows and rows of .... no one using the chargers.

Big venues are adding them but again, the charging rates are INSANE and usually they have added exponentially increasing parking fees ON TOP OF parking fees needed to enter the place. (WTF?).

Like others mentioned, half the time most of these are inoperable, don't work, won't communicate with the very frustrating and crappy 3rd party app, etc.

I HIGHLY doubt CA is going to solve this in a handful of years.


My .02 is that gas station companies are going to have to start adding EV chargers for this to work. But most gas stations are tiny with barely enough room for 4 pumps here in CA.

Already we get begged not to charge our cars in the summer months. Not sure how adding 10 million EVs is going to work. Cost of electricity is skyrocketing.
Agree 100%.

I was talking to my transportation supervisor who deals with EV school buses.
Said that the way the state of CA will recoup the lack of state fuel taxes will be to tax the registration of EV vehicles by the mile.

Do you think that's going to happen ?

My F150 Lightning registration is $1015 - how much more can they add to tax EV drivers ?
 
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4sallypat

macrumors 601
Sep 16, 2016
4,034
3,782
So Calif
Now if only they’d improve their build quality and design and I might be interested.
@quagmire
Price cuts up to $20K on the high end plaid trims!

What is going on with Tesla ?
Screen Shot 2023-01-13 at 7.19.37 AM.png


1673581090453-png.90724
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
I used 3rd party charging last night in Costa Mesa while going to a Pink Martini concert.

It was $15 for parking to get into the garage area.

The ChargePoint stall was working so I figured why not, I intentionally came in with 54% on the battery so I could charge. It said, $1.50 an hour but after 4 hours, it would be $5/hour. Sweated it a little bit at the end there because the band kept playing way past quitting time, lol. (It was a nice concert!). I believe the car was at 87% if I remember right when we left.

1673624004077.jpeg


1673624074175.jpeg



1673623933144.jpeg


The concert was over at 10:10pm and it took us 13 mins to get to the car.

20.83 kW for $5.34 is what, $.26/kwhr? Not too bad. I get $.22/kWhr at home.
 

quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,985
2,492
@quagmire
Price cuts up to $20K on the high end plaid trims!

What is going on with Tesla ?
View attachment 2141537

1673581090453-png.90724

Muskflation is over?

I was always skeptical of Musk's reason for the price hikes being due to inflation. I knew it was him/Tesla taking advantage of the market.

The price cuts brings all 3's and Y's under the price thresholds for the tax credits plus Musk's behavior with twitter damaging Tesla's brand probably brought this about.

Either way if this is the start of car prices starting to return to normal, I will take it.
 

danny_w

macrumors 601
Mar 8, 2005
4,471
301
Cumming, GA
Muskflation is over?

I was always skeptical of Musk's reason for the price hikes being due to inflation. I knew it was him/Tesla taking advantage of the market.

The price cuts brings all 3's and Y's under the price thresholds for the tax credits plus Musk's behavior with twitter damaging Tesla's brand probably brought this about.

Either way if this is the start of car prices starting to return to normal, I will take it.
I don’t think the Y Performance qualifies since it is over $55k even without options.
 
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quagmire

macrumors 604
Apr 19, 2004
6,985
2,492
I don’t think the Y Performance qualifies since it is over $55k even without options.

Before the price slash, the Y LR 5 seater didn't qualify. Yet if you got the Y LR 7 seater, it did.

Guess it all depends on if the IRS sees the Y as a crossover or car. How many it can seat is what they used to determine that I guess. No other logical reason other than that. The Y should be lumped as a CUV/SUV/truck meaning $80K should be its limit.
 

960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
My wife does 52 miles x2 every M W F. Weekends we do our shopping. (Work charging free - semester started so finding a charging spot is impossible)....
Wow! 622kWh in 31 days.

Here is what mine averages driving 41 miles to and from work M - F for the last couple of months. ( there are some longer weekend drives for hiking ).
tesla.jpg
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Yearly parking fee for parking at work? Really? That’s terrible. I’ve never paid to park at work.
I am assuming that most US Universities have parking fees for visitors, students and staff (includes faculty). My wife has a friend who works at the University of Washington State, and she pays over $300.00 per year for parking. The reason for this is because the Federal Government and States support the school systems in the form of grants (money). In this case the employee wages are also paid for by the State and Federal governments, or all tax payers in the nation. This is the public sector.

But all businesses in the private sector (the industries and all the local businesses) deduct the use of electricity, and so on from the business. Employee wages are part of business. For example, lest say that I have 2 employees working for me at my plumbing shop. In this case I charge the customer a fee of $100.00 per hour of service, but my employees earn only $10.00 per hour. The reason for this is as follows:

a. I have to pay for the purchase of the work-van, its insurance, registration, and mechanical service.
b. For the electricity, water, and all the utilities.
c. For the gasoline or electricity used by the van.
d. For the training, and safety of the employees.
e. And so on... (vacation time, sick leave, etc.)
f. Office and other equipment cost, etc.
g. Property taxes for the buildings (all structures), parking lot, and the rest of the lot.
h. Property maintenance, janitorial service, toilet paper, paper towels, hand soap, and so on.

All of these expenses are entered in the "books" each day for each employee, by the hour x week x month x year. For that reason alone I cannot afford paying the employee more than $10.00 per hour. The same can be said for the supposedly free electricity at a hotel, supermarket, and even University. Nothing is free, even if one does not pay for it.
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Agree 100%.

I was talking to my transportation supervisor who deals with EV school buses.
Said that the way the state of CA will recoup the lack of state fuel taxes will be to tax the registration of EV vehicles by the mile.

Do you think that's going to happen ?

My F150 Lightning registration is $1015 - how much more can they add to tax EV drivers ?
Can you imagine what CA will do to EV drivers when losing the fuel-tax revenue?
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,079
2,743
UK
@quagmire
Price cuts up to $20K on the high end plaid trims!

What is going on with Tesla ?
View attachment 2141537

1673581090453-png.90724
Yup, over production, ugly like only a mother could like it, bad quality, not a premium car other than price, combined with competition from actual car manufacturers with much better models and actually premium vehicles. The only think left is to compete on price, and the moment anyone starts doing that it will go down from there.
Muskflation is over?

I was always skeptical of Musk's reason for the price hikes being due to inflation. I knew it was him/Tesla taking advantage of the market.

The price cuts brings all 3's and Y's under the price thresholds for the tax credits plus Musk's behavior with twitter damaging Tesla's brand probably brought this about.

Either way if this is the start of car prices starting to return to normal, I will take it.
They are global price cuts, not just for the US market to fit within a tax credit bracket. They'll need a few more of those price cuts, and then they are finally priced in the segment where Tesla cars belong, and out of the premium end. Let's face it, they are more the Toyota of EVs, opposed to the Mercedes.
 
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960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
Can you imagine what CA will do to EV drivers when losing the fuel-tax revenue?
Another example of the idocracy within our (US) government. When Tesla produced the Roadster, I thought nothing of it as it was a cool concept with next to zero impact on the roadways. As soon as the first Model S came out, I thought, well this could be something. Maybe the government should switch from gas tax to a mileage tax. That was ten years ago.

With current technology it is cheap and easy to report the data without the need for 'service' stops or interference in citizens lives. It would only report mileage and NOT location or breadcrumbs, no need to get too noisy.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
I am assuming that most US Universities have parking fees for visitors, students and staff (includes faculty). My wife has a friend who works at the University of Washington State, and she pays over $300.00 per year for parking. The reason for this is because the Federal Government and States support the school systems in the form of grants (money). In this case the employee wages are also paid for by the State and Federal governments, or all tax payers in the nation. This is the public sector.

But all businesses in the private sector (the industries and all the local businesses) deduct the use of electricity, and so on from the business. Employee wages are part of business. For example, lest say that I have 2 employees working for me at my plumbing shop. In this case I charge the customer a fee of $100.00 per hour of service, but my employees earn only $10.00 per hour. The reason for this is as follows:

a. I have to pay for the purchase of the work-van, its insurance, registration, and mechanical service.
b. For the electricity, water, and all the utilities.
c. For the gasoline or electricity used by the van.
d. For the training, and safety of the employees.
e. And so on... (vacation time, sick leave, etc.)
f. Office and other equipment cost, etc.
g. Property taxes for the buildings (all structures), parking lot, and the rest of the lot.
h. Property maintenance, janitorial service, toilet paper, paper towels, hand soap, and so on.

All of these expenses are entered in the "books" each day for each employee, by the hour x week x month x year. For that reason alone I cannot afford paying the employee more than $10.00 per hour. The same can be said for the supposedly free electricity at a hotel, supermarket, and even University. Nothing is free, even if one does not pay for it.
UCLA here in California. Try $300 per quarter. :(.

For student / employee parking.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
Another example of the idocracy within our (US) government. When Tesla produced the Roadster, I thought nothing of it as it was a cool concept with next to zero impact on the roadways. As soon as the first Model S came out, I thought, well this could be something. Maybe the government should switch from gas tax to a mileage tax. That was ten years ago.

With current technology it is cheap and easy to report the data without the need for 'service' stops or interference in citizens lives. It would only report mileage and NOT location or breadcrumbs, no need to get too noisy.
Annual taxes on miles driven usually require GPS tracking. I believe that part of that is to only charge for mile driven within the jurisdiction of that state. Miles outside the state are not taxable. Most states that do levee a tax on EVs do it as a fixed amount of a few hundred dollars extra for an EV at annual registration time. A few states have charged significantly more where the political climate is against EVs. Most people overestimate the amount of a gas tax collected for each vehicle anyway.

I’d not sure what “idiocy” you are seeing.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Annual taxes on miles driven usually require GPS tracking. I believe that part of that is to only charge for mile driven within the jurisdiction of that state. Miles outside the state are not taxable. Most states that do levee a tax on EVs do it as a fixed amount of a few hundred dollars extra for an EV at annual registration time. A few states have charged significantly more where the political climate is against EVs. Most people overestimate the amount of a gas tax collected for each vehicle anyway.

I’d not sure what “idiocy” you are seeing.
More than likely the states governments you are referring to are charging more for registering EV's because these vehicles' drivers do not pay fuel taxes when driving the EV. Lest say that the registration expires at the end of five years: In this case the ICE vehicle's driver pays fuel taxes at the pump for a period of five years, while the EV's driver does not for a period of five years.

Take a look at the city and federal fuel taxes collected in Seattle for each gallon of gasoline and diesel fuel. What do you think will happen to Seattle once the fuel-tax revenue disappears? The local, State, and Federal governments will always look for ways to not have revenue loses that would negatively impact their finances. If they lose the fuel-tax revenue, then they will always figure how to recuperate the loss by imposing another types of taxes.

My apologies for I still haven't figured how to respond with multi quotes :)
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
More than likely the states governments you are referring to are charging more for registering EV's because these vehicles' drivers do not pay fuel taxes when driving the EV. Lest say that the registration expires at the end of five years: In this case the ICE vehicle's driver pays fuel taxes at the pump for a period of five years, while the EV's driver does not for a period of five years.

Take a look at the city and federal fuel taxes collected in Seattle for each gallon of gasoline and diesel fuel. What do you think will happen to Seattle once the fuel-tax revenue disappears? The local, State, and Federal governments will always look for ways to not have revenue loses that would negatively impact their finances. If they lose the fuel-tax revenue, then they will always figure how to recuperate the loss by imposing another types of taxes.

My apologies for I still haven't figured how to respond with multi quotes :)
Yes, that is the reason given for most states that charge extra for EV registration.

This comment was in response to someone who was proposing using GPS to log miles driven to calculate a tax for both EVs and ICEs. I’d rather not have the state collecting GPS data with it’s potential to log much more detail than just miles.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,982
55,988
Behind the Lens, UK
More than likely the states governments you are referring to are charging more for registering EV's because these vehicles' drivers do not pay fuel taxes when driving the EV. Lest say that the registration expires at the end of five years: In this case the ICE vehicle's driver pays fuel taxes at the pump for a period of five years, while the EV's driver does not for a period of five years.

Take a look at the city and federal fuel taxes collected in Seattle for each gallon of gasoline and diesel fuel. What do you think will happen to Seattle once the fuel-tax revenue disappears? The local, State, and Federal governments will always look for ways to not have revenue loses that would negatively impact their finances. If they lose the fuel-tax revenue, then they will always figure how to recuperate the loss by imposing another types of taxes.

My apologies for I still haven't figured how to respond with multi quotes :)
Do you pay tax on the electricity you use to charge? Maybe not at the same rate but I’m sure there is some tax on electricity. There is here in the UK.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,982
55,988
Behind the Lens, UK
Yes, that is the reason given for most states that charge extra for EV registration.

This comment was in response to someone who was proposing using GPS to log miles driven to calculate a tax for both EVs and ICEs. I’d rather not have the state collecting GPS data with it’s potential to log much more detail than just miles.
Wouldn’t really bother me. It would just show me going to work and back.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,079
2,743
UK
Yes, that is the reason given for most states that charge extra for EV registration.

This comment was in response to someone who was proposing using GPS to log miles driven to calculate a tax for both EVs and ICEs. I’d rather not have the state collecting GPS data with it’s potential to log much more detail than just miles.

Wouldn’t really bother me. It would just show me going to work and back.
Indeed, besides if they want to know they can know already ;)

But a possible solution such that ordinary civil servants don't have access to such data is to do it on a zero knowledge proof basis. The purpose is to calculate a usage tax based on miles, the purpose isn't to have access to all the routes ;) So to calculate the tax they just need to be able to trust the mileage driven.

It is actually quite a complete field with lots of bear traps, as to do this fairly it shouldn't just be a case of charge everyone the same. For some areas, like in Alaska and in a perverse manner also for me just 30 miles (ca. 48 km) from central London, there is no alternative but to use the car. Should those people in those circumstances be charged the same? I mean, other taxes take circumstances into the occasion?
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
WOW!
That's pricey - when I was a student back in the 1980's, UCLA parking permits ranged from $15 to $50 per quarter depending on how close the lot was to campus...
Just showed this to my wife sitting next to me at the breakfast table. LOL. That was quite a facial expression change, from a smile to surprise/shock lol.

She parks near the botanical gardens - lot 2, around there. (They have 2 rows of level 1 charging (15 amp outlets) on each floor).
 
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