Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[Swissfashion]

I drive a VW ID.3 1st Max Pro since December 2020 with a 58 kWh battery and maximum fast charging rate of 125 kWh, although I've managed to charge at over 132 kWh. It is kitted out with absolutely everything, including AR-Display which looks like it is projecting navigation signals onto the road, Travel Assist: more or less drives itself on country roads and motorways and recognises speed limits and adapts speed accordingly, panorama glass roof, user controlled dynamic suspension, 20" alloy wheels, etc. Charge at home mostly. I've traveled to Italy, through France and Germany and driven a number of alpine passes in Switzerland in the summer and winter with it. The only gripe I have is the slow OTA development schedule of VW, it seems they can't get updates out to cars. Definitely would buy it again.

 

[diamond.g]

Not that much more than for a fuel burner. I heard Porsche has much better battery capacity and range being the only Volkswagen Group brand having access to this technology for the time being but this would be out of my budget for sure. I would still need some personal place to charge it.

Yeah you’d need a pretty big battery to get that range in an EV, thus the price is going to be pretty high for a while. Only the Lucid gets that kind of range right now and you see how expensive they are.
(Using EPA measurements and not WLTP)

 

[4sallypat]

Yeah you’d need a pretty big battery to get that range in an EV, thus the price is going to be pretty high for a while. Only the Lucid gets that kind of range right now and you see how expensive they are.
(Using EPA measurements and not WLTP)

Correct.
Current battery tech is very heavy, expensive and does not pack as much energy for the size & weight.

My EV Lightning's curb weight without any cargo, occupants weighs in at 6025 lbs (2700kG) and the maximum GVWR is 8250 lbs (3700 kG).

Due to the weight, a 100kW battery can only go about 250 miles of range which is as efficient as it can be considering how non aerodynamic the vehicle is.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Not assuming. Just listening to what you say. The title of this thread is Who has or is planning to get an electric car? Perhaps you should start a I’m never going to get an EV thread? It’s clear you’ll not be happy in an EV ever.

Lest think of it rationally. You are correct about this thread's title, but not all the responses are about people who are buying an EV. Some people are curious about EV drive ranges, towing capacities, and so on. Some others have stated that they can't afford purchasing new EV's and that they will continue driving the vehicle they own. The discussion has included hybrid vehicles, too. I haven't tried to dissuade anybody from buying an EV, an ICE vehicle, nor a hybrid one. I am the most interested on technological advancements relating to propulsion systems of all kinds, specially Formula one hybrid, and electric.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Lest think of it rationally. You are correct about this thread's title, but not all the responses are about people who are buying an EV. Some people are curious about EV drive ranges, towing capacities, and so on. Some others have stated that they can't afford purchasing new EV's and that they will continue driving the vehicle they own. The discussion has included hybrid vehicles, too. I haven't tried to dissuade anybody from buying an EV, an ICE vehicle, nor a hybrid one. I am the most interested on technological advancements relating to propulsion systems of all kinds, specially Formula one hybrid, and electric.

Here are some of your posts in italics. Bold mine.

Still, that doesn't mean that EV's are safer than ICE automobiles since it refers to fires, not to road accidents, damage, malfunctions, poor maintenance and construction, and so on Implies EV's are more likely to suffer from accidents, damage, malfunctions, poor maintenance and construction.

How is an EV safer than and ICE vehicle In response to the following numbers (posted twice), 3,474 Hybrid, 1,529 ICE, 25 EV fires per 100k sales.

The problem with an EV batteries is the great amount of energy stored in it, and that it can self ignite if it reaches high temperatures As the numbers state not really a problem with EV fires is there?

In my view the EV batteries of today is the primary stumbling block for EVs. These batteries are too expensive to build and to recycle, plus too heavy I think my EV is lighter than all 3 of your vehicles.

In reality, the most economical way to reduce environmental pollution is to do it at incremental steps as follows: Too late for that I'm afraid. We need to change now as the melting ice caps show us.

Even you could not exist without polluting our planet. True. But at least I'm trying.

combatting gasoline fires is quite easy compared to fighting lithium-ion battery fires I guess because they get so much more practise with the much more common gasoline fire?

likelihood of onboard fires (read the news about fires and crews having to abandon ships) I'm sure they must lose nearly all the EV's they try to ship all the time then. Maybe that's why there are waiting lists!

Somebody posted this video about a Tesla charging station (no idea how old the video is, however) Video shows people queuing for a charge. I've seen the same for petrol.

An EV is not going to save the planet any more than an ICE automobile. But it is kinder to the planet. Not all of the answer, but certainly a big part of it.

Look at the charger's ratings. The placard should indicate the what type of circuit it requires. Also, you have to know which chargers you can use for charging your EV's batteries, the instruction would be in the owner's manual. And I repeat, know which charger's level should be used to charge your EV. The battery charger is built into the car, so matches the batteries perfectly. The Wallbox is just the power delivery to the car charger.

To be fair you have posted some positive or neutral things about EV's as well, but you do come across pretty down on them. As I've said a few times your user case is not very typical. You live in Alaska, you take long trips into the middle of nowhere (to take some stunning photos) and the infrastructure there for charging is poor.

But there will always be edge cases. What we need to do is move away from burning fossil fuels at the tailpipe on 1000's of vehicles and drive greener. I also think working from home and generally less leisure travelling is part of the solution for a greener planet.

 

[Analog Kid]

I would prefer "green" ICE cars: Made to be super light weight and with all the bells and whistles to clean the exhaust. Why is this not done? I would be happy to pay a little more if I could keep the independence and comfort of an ICE car without the fumes.

While you may be willing to pay more for an ICE than an EV to achieve the same global emissions, the vast majority of people are not. One of the key technologies in emissions control is the catalytic converter which uses just a small amount of platinum. Not only are they not required in many countries for economic reasons, but in countries where they are required they're a target of theft.

The way we keep combustion as "green" as possible is to centralize it. While the goal remains to stop burning stuff to make electricity, the truth is that most electricity derives from combustion at some point but it is concentrated at a few power plants. This is where the emissions can be more easily captured, cleaned, and those systems can be easily inspected and maintained.

It would be impossible to clean every car's exhaust to the level we clean power plants. Think about the logistics of it. Plus "cleaning the exhaust" runs counter to being "super light".

I think the way this is eventually going is that once the technology is there to cover most peoples needs, which I'm pretty sure still won't cover the requirement that you can drive 1400km (roughly from Rome to Berlin) with one 10min stop to recharge, we'll see the economics tip in favor of EVs and government policies look for ways to recover the true cost of externalities due to emissions. That may start to both increase the cost of fuel and force ICEs to become more green and therefore more expensive themselves.

 

[Apple fanboy]

While you may be willing to pay more for an ICE than an EV to achieve the same global emissions, the vast majority of people are not. One of the key technologies in emissions control is the catalytic converter which uses just a small amount of platinum. Not only are they not required in many countries for economic reasons, but in countries where they are required they're a target of theft.

The way we keep combustion as "green" as possible is to centralize it. While the goal remains to stop burning stuff to make electricity, the truth is that most electricity derives from combustion at some point but it is concentrated at a few power plants. This is where the emissions can be more easily captured, cleaned, and those systems can be easily inspected and maintained.

It would be impossible to clean every car's exhaust to the level we clean power plants. Think about the logistics of it. Plus "cleaning the exhaust" runs counter to being "super light".

I think the way this is eventually going is that once the technology is there to cover most peoples needs, which I'm pretty sure still won't cover the requirement that you can drive 1400km (roughly from Rome to Berlin) with one 10min stop to recharge, we'll see the economics tip in favor of EVs and government policies look for ways to recover the true cost of externalities due to emissions. That may start to both increase the cost of fuel and force ICEs to become more green and therefore more expensive themselves.

I don’t think one stop between Berlin and Rome is possible with my bladder. Seems like a pretty unlikely scenario for most people to drive that often. That would be a horrendous daily commute.

 

[NoBoMac]

Moderator Note:

Posts have been deleted. Keep it on topic.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Here are some of your posts in italics. Bold mine.

Still, that doesn't mean that EV's are safer than ICE automobiles since it refers to fires, not to road accidents, damage, malfunctions, poor maintenance and construction, and so on Implies EV's are more likely to suffer from accidents, damage, malfunctions, poor maintenance and construction.

How is an EV safer than and ICE vehicle In response to the following numbers (posted twice), 3,474 Hybrid, 1,529 ICE, 25 EV fires per 100k sales.

The problem with an EV batteries is the great amount of energy stored in it, and that it can self ignite if it reaches high temperatures As the numbers state not really a problem with EV fires is there?

In my view the EV batteries of today is the primary stumbling block for EVs. These batteries are too expensive to build and to recycle, plus too heavy I think my EV is lighter than all 3 of your vehicles.

In reality, the most economical way to reduce environmental pollution is to do it at incremental steps as follows: Too late for that I'm afraid. We need to change now as the melting ice caps show us.

Even you could not exist without polluting our planet. True. But at least I'm trying.

combatting gasoline fires is quite easy compared to fighting lithium-ion battery fires I guess because they get so much more practise with the much more common gasoline fire?

likelihood of onboard fires (read the news about fires and crews having to abandon ships) I'm sure they must lose nearly all the EV's they try to ship all the time then. Maybe that's why there are waiting lists!

Somebody posted this video about a Tesla charging station (no idea how old the video is, however) Video shows people queuing for a charge. I've seen the same for petrol.

An EV is not going to save the planet any more than an ICE automobile. But it is kinder to the planet. Not all of the answer, but certainly a big part of it.

Look at the charger's ratings. The placard should indicate the what type of circuit it requires. Also, you have to know which chargers you can use for charging your EV's batteries, the instruction would be in the owner's manual. And I repeat, know which charger's level should be used to charge your EV. The battery charger is built into the car, so matches the batteries perfectly. The Wallbox is just the power delivery to the car charger.

To be fair you have posted some positive or neutral things about EV's as well, but you do come across pretty down on them. As I've said a few times your user case is not very typical. You live in Alaska, you take long trips into the middle of nowhere (to take some stunning photos) and the infrastructure there for charging is poor.

But there will always be edge cases. What we need to do is move away from burning fossil fuels at the tailpipe on 1000's of vehicles and drive greener. I also think working from home and generally less leisure travelling is part of the solution for a greener planet.

1. The link you posted referred to vehicular fires. I was not "saying" that only EV's can catch fire under those circumstances. During a crash, poor maintenance, and so on all the safety measures taken by automobile, aircraft, locomotive, and so on... to keep both electric power and fuel safe can be compromised. In an ICE automobile the most dangerous in relation to fires are the fuel, and the electrical power (battery, wiring, components). In an EV the most dangerous are the battery itself, and the electrical components/wiring. But both fuel and electrical power that are contained are equally safe.

2. While EV battery fires are rare, these fires are more difficult to combat than automobile fuel fires. MIT articles about the construction of Li-Ion batteries point to the reasons why these batteries' temperatures are maintained without overheating (read international government reports about the battery temperature management system requirement, the problems with the Nisan Leaf battery, and the GM Volt). Also read the MIT articles about the need for new battery designs (Li-Ion chemistry does not react well to high temperature).

3. I do understand that EV chargers are in the vehicle, and also the reasons why. These are "intelligent" chargers with several built-in functions and safeties, including the monitoring and controlling the battery internal/external temperature while adjusting the charging rate. Similar circuitries are incorporated into cellphones, these days.

The bottomline is as follows: regardless of vehicle type and mode of propulsion used, there is none that is 100% safe during a crash, poor maintenance, if improperly operated, and so on. The safeties are incorporate into the vehicle because of government mandates, and because of the manufacturer efforts to avoid litigation. What I have said over an over again has nothing to do with being anti-EV nor ICE. In my view, F1 hybrid and FE technology is the most promising (engines with high thermal efficiencies/aided by smaller and lighter batteries).

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

A friend of mine put this up in social media the other day. She has a Tesla model 3 with her job:

This is the sad reality of the situation in Britain at the moment. Two of the services on the motorway had their charging stations out of order and she was sat in a dark Morrisons car park late at night on a slow charger just to get home. It’s a similar situation to one I read from a lady months ago and may have mentioned it on this thread back then. This is why I often say here things have to improve and fast. I don’t want to be arriving in 2033 or whatever year I have to get one of these cars and for the technology to be lacking. Keep pushing and get this better I say.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A friend of mine put this up in social media the other day. She has a Tesla model 3 with her job:

This is the sad reality of the situation in Britain at the moment. Two of the services on the motorway had their charging stations out of order and she was sat in a dark Morrisons car park late at night on a slow charger just to get home. It’s a similar situation to one I read from a lady months ago and may have mentioned it on this thread back then. This is why I often say here things have to improve and fast. I don’t want to be arriving in 2033 or whatever year I have to get one of these cars and for the technology to be lacking. Keep pushing and get this better I say.

It does happen. But the apps they have which tell you which chargers are in use and which are out of order is pretty reliable.
But the charging network does need improvements. Things need repairing quickly when they are offline. There also needs to be a lot more of them. Some garages are already installing EV chargers, and I think that is the way forward. But if you do the same long routes regularly, you get to know where to go and where to avoid.

 

[Swissfashion]

It does happen. But the apps they have which tell you which chargers are in use and which are out of order is pretty reliable.
But the charging network does need improvements. Things need repairing quickly when they are offline. There also needs to be a lot more of them. Some garages are already installing EV chargers, and I think that is the way forward. But if you do the same long routes regularly, you get to know where to go and where to avoid.

I experienced that once in France. After a storm, all the chargers on the motorway were out of order. I drove off the motorway and ended up charging for free at a fast charger at a large VW Dealer, because all supermarket chargers and public chargers in Clermont-Ferrand were out of order as well.

 

[Apple fanboy]

This video is pretty damming of the situation in Yorkshire.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

This video is pretty damming of the situation in Yorkshire.

A motoring publication did an article last summer where they took a day trip to my home town of Stratford upon Avon and I think all 8 charging sites were out of order. It was shared on the town FB group but apparently it’s all been sorted out now. Didn’t help the journalist at the time though lol. None of the petrol stations where I live in Wales have EV charging yet and I think Morrisons and Asda are the only ones in a 10 miles radius with 4 chargers at each. The one at Asda earlier had one of the units with a yellow out of order tag on it. I appreciate it’ll get better. A friend of mine runs an electrical business and is installing 3 domestic chargers a month and he said that’s 3 more than this time last year. Plus he’s doing installs for councils across South Wales and South West England and getting paid £600 a unit for just laying cables. It’s not all doom and gloom I know.

 

[Apple fanboy]

A motoring publication did an article last summer where they took a day trip to my home town of Stratford upon Avon and I think all 8 charging sites were out of order. It was shared on the town FB group but apparently it’s all been sorted out now. Didn’t help the journalist at the time though lol. None of the petrol stations where I live in Wales have EV charging yet and I think Morrisons and Asda are the only ones in a 10 miles radius with 4 chargers at each. The one at Asda earlier had one of the units with a yellow out of order tag on it. I appreciate it’ll get better. A friend of mine runs an electrical business and is installing 3 domestic chargers a month and he said that’s 3 more than this time last year. Plus he’s doing installs for councils across South Wales and South West England and getting paid £600 a unit for just laying cables. It’s not all doom and gloom I know.

7 years from now when they stop selling new ICE cars things will be very different. Look where they were 7 years ago.
But for those who can’t charge at home or work things will always be difficult.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

7 years from now when they stop selling new ICE cars things will be very different. Look where they were 7 years ago.
But for those who can’t charge at home or work things will always be difficult.

I think it’ll be common place to see electrical leads across pavements and coming out of upstairs windows for those living in old terraced houses that where front doors open onto the Street. I think we are a society where issues will create demand on the powers that be to sort it out. Flats will have to have designated charging areas and new builds will have them as standard, along with every home having solar panels. There will be a 15 year transition period I’d imagine up to 2045 before we see the last of the ICE vehicles on our roads. I don’t expect to see more than 50% of vehicles on our roads being EV’s by 2030 personally. It’ll take much longer than that and a lot of work needs to be turn to stop motorists having the scepticism we still see now.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think it’ll be common place to see electrical leads across pavements and coming out of upstairs windows for those living in old terraced houses that where front doors open onto the Street. I think we are a society where issues will create demand on the powers that be to sort it out. Flats will have to have designated charging areas and new builds will have them as standard, along with every home having solar panels. There will be a 15 year transition period I’d imagine up to 2045 before we see the last of the ICE vehicles on our roads. I don’t expect to see more than 50% of vehicles on our roads being EV’s by 2030 personally. It’ll take much longer than that and a lot of work needs to be turn to stop motorists having the scepticism we still see now.

I think new builds have to include charging ports now from what I read somewhere or other. But they have lots of charging ports in places like London on lampposts and street bollards.
New car sales probably only account for a small % of actual cars on the road, so yes it will take a lot longer than the 2030 ban for ICE cars to disappear altogether.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think new builds have to include charging ports now from what I read somewhere or other. But they have lots of charging ports in places like London on lampposts and street bollards.
New car sales probably only account for a small % of actual cars on the road, so yes it will take a lot longer than the 2030 ban for ICE cars to disappear altogether.

Unfortunately London is unique where lots of money is spent on things like transport. For the 58.4m that live outside of London it’s a very different story. I doubt many councils in more deprived areas will be putting charging bollards in suburban streets, I know Blaenau Gwent Council where I live can barely afford to turn on the street lights and many streets have been in darkness for 5 or more years now.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Unfortunately London is unique where lots of money is spent on things like transport. For the 58.4m that live outside of London it’s a very different story. I doubt many councils in more deprived areas will be putting charging bollards in suburban streets, I know Blaenau Gwent Council where I live can barely afford to turn on the street lights and many streets have been in darkness for 5 or more years now.

We don’t even have street lights in my area!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

We don’t even have street lights in my area!

It’ll be interesting to see if your council install on-street chargers then for the homes that don’t have driveways then. The lighting in my street is solar powered and one of the few where this was installed back in 2015. Lots of streets have the lights off which was an incentive years ago that hasn’t been reversed. It’s common to see dog walkers in the streets with torches and my family in England find it astonishing it actually happens lol.

This is why I voice reservations about the cost of EV’s for the general population. I live in the poorest county in Wales where a lot of the cars on the roads are pretty old due to so many people on benefits and minimum wage jobs. I’m curious how the rollout will go and what options there will be for those not able to pay more than a couple of grand for a car. This is why I think leasing will be the primary way EV’s will be acquired and it’s very easy to say from a position of wealth that nobody should have a car unless they can buy it outright.

 

[4sallypat]

More amused at how California expects to go all EV by 2035.

Can't see that happening now with sparse L3 chargers that may or may not work.

And during the hot summer months, we are told by the state not to use electrical loads during the day into the night.

Sort of silly isn't it.

 

[poorcody]

More amused at how California expects to go all EV by 2035.

Just ran across a detailed article from CalMatters on this subject:

Race to zero: Can California’s power grid handle a 15-fold increase in electric cars?

California officials insist that the grid can provide enough electricity. But that’s based on a lot of assumptions that may not be realistic.

calmatters.org

Interesting read. Their summary:

IN SUMMARY

Despite expecting 12.5 million electric cars by 2035, California officials insist that the grid can provide enough electricity. But that’s based on multiple assumptions — including building solar and wind at almost five times the pace of the past decade — that may not be realistic.

 

[BigMcGuire]

More amused at how California expects to go all EV by 2035.

Can't see that happening now with sparse L3 chargers that may or may not work.

And during the hot summer months, we are told by the state not to use electrical loads during the day into the night.

Sort of silly isn't it.

Going to be interesting how next summer fares. Last year we were met with constant requests not to charge in the evenings, people I knew had power outages. Not sure how the amount of rain we've gotten will or will not impact the summers, but they've been brutal here.

Socal Edison paid me handsomely not to use power between 4-9pm last year. Easily paid for a few months of power usage.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Going to be interesting how next summer fares. Last year we were met with constant requests not to charge in the evenings, people I knew had power outages. Not sure how the amount of rain we've gotten will or will not impact the summers, but they've been brutal here.

Socal Edison paid me handsomely not to use power between 4-9pm last year. Easily paid for a few months of power usage.

I believe the PG&E will have a rate increase of 9.2% (around $14.00) starting in March this year.

 

[4sallypat]

Going to be interesting how next summer fares. Last year we were met with constant requests not to charge in the evenings, people I knew had power outages. Not sure how the amount of rain we've gotten will or will not impact the summers, but they've been brutal here.

Socal Edison paid me handsomely not to use power between 4-9pm last year. Easily paid for a few months of power usage.

I assume you have solar ?

We are looking at getting solar since the old program will be dropping precipitously in the next 2 months.

Just having an issue finding equipment that has enough panel efficiencies that can offset our bill....