Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[jmckenzie]

Kia Niro EV here. I like it well enough and am glad not to be polluting when I drive it around (yes, I am well aware that EVs are not an unmitigated panacea. Still smells better). Main reason I bought it is actually just wanting a simpler machine with less parts to maintain/replace. Mileage is better than advertised when it's warm out, and worse than advertised when it's cold. Charging is not really a problem, but you certainly can't do a 600 mile car trip as easily. I would still do it, though.

I certainly paid a lot for a pretty boring looking car, but that is fine with me. I would also have considered a Bolt. Would never recommend a Tesla because true self-driving is still, optimistically, 10 years off, and so I'd rather buy a car from a tried and true manufacturer with scale.

Google "Tesla repair" for grins.

 

[BigMcGuire]

I assume you have solar ?

We are looking at getting solar since the old program will be dropping precipitously in the next 2 months.

Just having an issue finding equipment that has enough panel efficiencies that can offset our bill....

Apartment. someday!

 

[JT2002TJ]

...Would never recommend a Tesla because true self-driving is still, optimistically, 10 years off...

While it isn't perfect, Tesla is 10+ years ahead of the other auto manufactures. Plus, they have proven to support their products with software updates that improve them.

You are correct that from all the reviews, FSD isn't really FSD, but it is good enough that people have very few interventions. Especially if they are using it only on the highways (they aren't in the beta program). It seems the only real major highway issues are when there are merge lanes, it will try to center you, rather than know you need to be close to one side or the other up head. But these are easy enough to predict and take over.

This is for the US, not sure about anywhere else...

 

[960design]

Charging is not really a problem, but you certainly can't do a 600 mile car trip as easily. I would still do it, though.

We drive 425 miles about once a month to visit our daughter. We have zero issues charging and find it faster than fueling. I know! Who says that! Everytime we stop to charge there are huge lines (Busy Bee) of cars trying to get fuel. I think the biggest issue is the fuelers leave their cars at the pumps while they go inside to shop, bathroom break, etc. The end result is at about half way through the trip (3 hour mark) we pull in to charge, leave the car for just long enough to get drinks, bathroom break and pull out while most fuelers are still in line.

I certainly paid a lot for a pretty boring looking car, but that is fine with me. I would also have considered a Bolt.

How much is a lot? Tesla Model 3s are about $36k with the current Federal Tax credit; could be less if you live in a state that offers more incentives. Friend had a bolt for about a year, hated it. I thought it was pretty nice, but I only rode in it a couple of times.

Would never recommend a Tesla because true self-driving is still, optimistically, 10 years off, and so I'd rather buy a car from a tried and true manufacturer with scale.

I would absolutely recommend a Tesla, not because of self driving ( which is pretty amazing, it is insane the difference between driving for six hours and letting the car drive for six hours is ), but because they are great cars, made in America, practically no maintenance ( besides new tires and windshield wiper fluid ) and seemingly get better with every update.

Google "Tesla repair" for grins.

I did and found Tesla repair service centers. Is there something specific we need to look for? I have not had an issue yet, but it is comforting to know that if I do, I can tap a button in the app, Tesla will perform over the air diagnostics and send out a mobile tech if at all possible, otherwise schedule an appointment.

 

[Apple fanboy]

While it isn't perfect, Tesla is 10+ years ahead of the other auto manufactures. Plus, they have proven to support their products with software updates that improve them.

You are correct that from all the reviews, FSD isn't really FSD, but it is good enough that people have very few interventions. Especially if they are using it only on the highways (they aren't in the beta program). It seems the only real major highway issues are when there are merge lanes, it will try to center you, rather than know you need to be close to one side or the other up head. But these are easy enough to predict and take over.

This is for the US, not sure about anywhere else...

I’m not sure they are 10 years ahead, but what Tesla did get right (at least in the UK), is the network. The charging points and the way it connects to your car. No apps or contactless payments etc.
Battery life is also good. But everything else from me would be a hard pass.

 

[JT2002TJ]

We drive 425 miles about once a month to visit our daughter. We have zero issues charging and find it faster than fueling. I know! Who says that! Everytime we stop to charge there are huge lines (Busy Bee) of cars trying to get fuel. I think the biggest issue is the fuelers leave their cars at the pumps while they go inside to shop, bathroom break, etc. The end result is at about half way through the trip (3 hour mark) we pull in to charge, leave the car for just long enough to get drinks, bathroom break and pull out while most fuelers are still in line.

I can confirm this. I live in Long Island NY, when I drive down the East Coast (especially in NJ) the rest stops have LONG lines before you even get to the pump, unless you drive during off hours. There are Tesla Super Charges and regular Tesla charges at every one of these stops. Very few being used (at least for now). Although I haven't taken delivery of my Tesla yet, with fast charging times of about 20-30 minutes, this would actually be on par with fueling up.

I would absolutely recommend a Tesla, not because of self driving ( which is pretty amazing, it is insane the difference between driving for six hours and letting the car drive for six hours is ), but because they are great cars, made in America, practically no maintenance ( besides new tires and windshield wiper fluid ) and seemingly get better with every update.

I agree with this. I would also recommend the self-driving; this is why I picked Tesla... I want to make my 50-mile daily commute (Brooklyn to Long Island in NY) easier, and the Enhanced Autopilot/Full Self Driving features are going to be a Godsend. Being able to make long road trips with it driving itself is icing.

I did and found Tesla repair service centers. Is there something specific we need to look for? I have not had an issue yet, but it is comforting to know that if I do, I can tap a button in the app, Tesla will perform over the air diagnostics and send out a mobile tech if at all possible, otherwise schedule an appointment.

Anyone who jumps on Tesla for having to repair vehicles, has probably not been to a dealership in the past decade. You see brand new vehicles sitting waiting for major parts to come in. Engines, transmissions, axles, electronic modules are all common. These are parts dealers no longer repair, they swap, so they have to wait for replacement parts. I know of Air Rid suspensions causing Ram owners to be without their trucks for 6+ months. So much so, people are retrofitting standard suspensions.

A replacement rebuilt Hemi engine is $10k (without labor), so if the batteries eventually go, it is no worse than replacing the engine in a modern vehicle.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I’m not sure they are 10 years ahead, but what Tesla did get right (at least in the UK), is the network. The charging points and the way it connects to your car. No apps or contactless payments etc.
Battery life is also good. But everything else from me would be a hard pass.

I specifically was saying their Self-Driving is 10 years head of all the others. They have literally been doing it 10+ years longer. Others have been doing adaptive cruise control, but not to the level of Tesla's Enhanced Autopilot or even Full Self Driving.

Everything else, yeah, no way. All the others can do everything else ahead of Tesla.

EDIT: But to offer an alternative to what you are pointing out. Charging network, contactless payments, battery life basically is the foundation of EV's right now... I assume once others catch up with these, it will be a level playing field. I don't think it will take long, especially if Tesla licenses out their contactless payments at their networks.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I’m not sure they are 10 years ahead, but what Tesla did get right (at least in the UK), is the network. The charging points and the way it connects to your car. No apps or contactless payments etc.
Battery life is also good. But everything else from me would be a hard pass.

I was excited when Tesla opened up their charging network, I have an account with them to charge. In reality, in the 17,000 miles (ca. 27,359 km) moving-annual-total across 9 European countries I've never had to use them.

Sure, they were first to have an (inter)national network, and many people still believe it to be great. In reality, they are simply not alone in that market and the market has moved on. There are plenty of network charging options to choose from, CCS2 is supported everywhere. And from a car perspective, there are way better EV alternatives from established brands. Tesla finds themselves now competing on cost/value, and soon that will be the only thing they've got.

Unless they can pull a rabbit out of the hat, they are on a downwards spiral. I think they will still be around, but are the Toyota of the industry. Pure transport vehicles, that will take you from a to b. Occasionally have an interesting model that tickles the interest of car enthusiasts, but that is it.

 

[SalisburySam]

Would never recommend a Tesla because true self-driving is still, optimistically, 10 years off, and so I'd rather buy a car from a tried and true manufacturer with scale.

Oh wow, you exclude Teslas because a future feature isn’t available? The same future feature that is also not available on any other vehicle you could buy today, by the way? Don’t get the logic here. And to address “tried and true” Tesla has been around since 2008…that’s 14 years. Certainly a newcomer compared to Mercedes and others, but the fact they’re still here and growing, for me, indicates an acceptable level of “tried and true.” As for scale, Tesla is the largest manufacturer of EVs on the planet pumping out numbers exceeding seven digits annually. They’ve demonstrated repeatedly they can go from raw land to a full-production factory in a year or less…witness gigafactories in Berlin and Austin. No one else can bring large scale production facilities up from scratch anywhere close to that speed. By contrast, it takes me about three months to get a plumber to come over to fix a small leak.

There are lots of reasons to NOT get a Tesla, but I think your three don’t hold up to scrutiny.

Google "Tesla repair" for grins.

I did, and saw several articles…none left me grinning. Most were connections to repair facilities that worked on Teslas, many were clickbait to either buy something or forward some political agenda. One mimicked a review from Consumer Reports. Don’t get your point here.

One datapoint, my personal experience of 4½ years of Model 3 ownership: two tire rotations, two sets of cabin air filter replacements, windshield washer fluid refills, windshield wiper blade changes, an upgrade to one of the computers, and a recall/upgrade to the charging port locking pins. I did the washer fills and blade replacements myself, all other work was done by Tesla’s mobile service folks IN MY DRIVEWAY. Oh and the only charge was for the cabin filters and 2nd tire rotation…all else was at no cost to me. I’m pretty happy about ”Tesla repair” to be honest, both how little is needed and how much can be done IN MY DRIVEWAY. Also as I may have hinted at, I haven’t needed to go to a service center for repairs because (a) I haven’t needed repairs in the traditional sense of fixing damage, and (b) they can address maintenance and many other issues IN MY DRIVEWAY.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Another thing that Tesla has done differently, which can be a hassle to some (if you live FAR away from a service center), is removing dealers from their equation. There is a LOT of overhead with dealers, and lately I have had nothing but bad experiences. The fact that they will send someone out, repair over the air, or come pick them up is fantastic. Yesterday they came to my sister's job and performed a recall repair on the spot while she was working...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Another thing that Tesla has done differently, which can be a hassle to some (if you live FAR away from a service center), is removing dealers from their equation. There is a LOT of overhead with dealers, and lately I have had nothing but bad experiences. The fact that they will send someone out, repair over the air, or come pick them up is fantastic. Yesterday they came to my sister's job and performed a recall repair on the spot while she was working...

I guess that is subject to huge regional variations; I've had all major manufacturers and approved repairers do that for decades. And also the direct sales model isn't particularly new/innovative either.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I guess that is subject to huge regional variations; I've had all major manufacturers and approved repairers do that for decades. And also the direct sales model isn't particularly new/innovative either.

I live in NYC area (long island), they typically expect you to come in. Also, I never had a new S-Class/7-series/A8, which I know these higher end vehicles get that kind of treatment. Tesla does it from their SR RWD Model 3 up to their X/S Plaid.

It was a big problem when tesla came out, I believe most states have requirements that cars could only be sold via dealerships. When I first saw a Tesla storefront at my local mall in Long Island, it was a big fight by the dealerships to keep Tesla out of NY.

 

[jmckenzie]

I did and found Tesla repair service centers. Is there something specific we need to look for? I have not had an issue yet, but it is comforting to know that if I do, I can tap a button in the app, Tesla will perform over the air diagnostics and send out a mobile tech if at all possible, otherwise schedule an appointment.

Person I know who owns a Tesla drove it into a wall in a parking garage at low speed, damaged the bumper enough that it was hanging off the car a little bit, but the damage to the electronics was so bad I think it was a $10,000.00 repair. Certainly my Kia has loads of electronics too, but I don't think it would have come to that. And then separate case, there was a little damage to side mirror — think it got sideswiped while parked — and the Tesla dealer stated that the only repair possible was to replace the whole thing. Altogether, my impression is that, kind of like computers these days, Teslas are built to be great on day one, but repairability is essentially an afterthought. Just from a body standpoint, being made out of aluminum means third parties that can handle your repair job have to buy in at a high cost to get the equipment to work with the cars, so it's just more expensive all around. These are just my anecdotes...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I live in NYC area (long island), they typically expect you to come in. Also, I never had a new S-Class/7-series/A8, which I know these higher end vehicles get that kind of treatment. Tesla does it from their SR RWD Model 3 up to their X/S Plaid.

It was a big problem when tesla came out, I believe most states have requirements that cars could only be sold via dealerships. When I first saw a Tesla storefront at my local mall in Long Island, it was a big fight by the dealerships to keep Tesla out of NY.

Yes, I think it is largely a US car dealership protectionist lobby thing And Tesla is not alone, Polestar is having similar challenges in the US whilst not so much in the rest of the world.

Mercedes in the UK were pretty good with coming out to the home/driveway/work as well. BMW done collections for as long as I remember on any model in the range, but I guess it depends on where you live. Polestar do it free of charge within 150 miles (ca. 241 km) of a space, or you can arrange a collection by a local Volvo dealer (but not in the US again). A garage I use for our classics/retro cars saw a gap in the market, and they come and collect with a covered trailer. I really like that.

Sure, I'm under no illusion that any of this is free, It all costs money. But many are happy paying for the convenience it provides.

 

[960design]

Anyone who jumps on Tesla for having to repair vehicles, has probably not been to a dealership in the past decade. You see brand new vehicles sitting waiting for major parts to come in. Engines, transmissions, axles, electronic modules are all common. These are parts dealers no longer repair, they swap, so they have to wait for replacement parts. I know of Air Rid suspensions causing Ram owners to be without their trucks for 6+ months. So much so, people are retrofitting standard suspensions.

One of the reasons I ordered a Tesla. Went to order a Cadillac and they said it would take 3 months from purchase to get it. It would have to return at an unknown date because it would deliver without heated seats, heated mirrors and few more things that would need to be retrofitted (when they became available) after delivery AND the price was $15,000 over MSRP.

 

[4sallypat]

One of the reasons I ordered a Tesla. Went to order a Cadillac and they said it would take 3 months from purchase to get it. It would have to return at an unknown date because it would deliver without heated seats, heated mirrors and few more things that would need to be retrofitted (when they became available) after delivery AND the price was $15,000 over MSRP.

I am waiting 10 months now for my '23 Mustang Mach EV stickered at $56K - still incoming in transit after a month - that's got to be dedication...

Or it's a pricing issue - net cost before TTL: $37K.

 

[960design]

And also the direct sales model isn't particularly new/innovative either.

I am intrigued! What other manufacture sells cars to the public via direct sales and when did they start? ( before Tesla? ).

I am only familiar with the United States, if I remember correctly there are laws that currently prevent direct sales from manufactures. Tesla cheats with a paperwork loophole.

 

[960design]

Person I know who owns a Tesla drove it into a wall in a parking garage at low speed, damaged the bumper enough that it was hanging off the car a little bit, but the damage to the electronics was so bad I think it was a $10,000.00 repair.

Front bumper on my previous Cadillac, hit in parking lot, no electronics damaged, no lights or grill damage, just the bumper replacement cost nearly $3000. Definitely not $10,000, but still, dang. That is why we have insurance!

Side mirrors are always replaced as a unit and can cost about $300. I was a car hauler and broke more than a couple of mirrors in my life.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

We drive 425 miles about once a month to visit our daughter. We have zero issues charging and find it faster than fueling. I know! Who says that! Everytime we stop to charge there are huge lines (Busy Bee) of cars trying to get fuel. I think the biggest issue is the fuelers leave their cars at the pumps while they go inside to shop, bathroom break, etc. The end result is at about half way through the trip (3 hour mark) we pull in to charge, leave the car for just long enough to get drinks, bathroom break and pull out while most fuelers are still in line.

How much is a lot? Tesla Model 3s are about $36k with the current Federal Tax credit; could be less if you live in a state that offers more incentives. Friend had a bolt for about a year, hated it. I thought it was pretty nice, but I only rode in it a couple of times.

I would absolutely recommend a Tesla, not because of self driving ( which is pretty amazing, it is insane the difference between driving for six hours and letting the car drive for six hours is ), but because they are great cars, made in America, practically no maintenance ( besides new tires and windshield wiper fluid ) and seemingly get better with every update.

I did and found Tesla repair service centers. Is there something specific we need to look for? I have not had an issue yet, but it is comforting to know that if I do, I can tap a button in the app, Tesla will perform over the air diagnostics and send out a mobile tech if at all possible, otherwise schedule an appointment.

The problem with a Tesla is it’s an American car brand and here in Europe American cars have a long history of being rather rubbish. I think Tesla are leading the way in the EV market in terms of introducing new, cool technology, but it would be one of the last brands I trust when I eventually make the switch. No offence meant to those who love their Tesla, but I don’t think they are for me, plus they are pretty bland looking compared to other EV’s out there and that’s purely my subjective opinion.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Front bumper on my previous Cadillac, hit in parking lot, no electronics damaged, no lights or grill damage, just the bumper replacement cost nearly $3000. Definitely not $10,000, but still, dang. That is why we have insurance!

Side mirrors are always replaced as a unit and can cost about $300. I was a car hauler and broke more than a couple of mirrors in my life.

The side view mirror in my 2008 Audi A4 would be over $1k to replace (from Audi). Motorized with heated and antidazzle feature. Also, the cover would come unpainted, so there's paint matching at the body shop.

On my Ram pickup truck, the OEM bumper is chrome, so it's over $1k, I think it is close to another $1k for the parking sensors (if you use OEM). This is a 4th Generation Ram, so it doesn't even have any tech. Someone backed into my bumper, since it is Chrome, their insurance company had to replace it (they can't repair chrome without having to rechrome).

The days of cheap repairs are over. All modern cars are moving towards tech behind them (collision detection sensors, cameras, radar) basically the old cheap fender benders are done. Don't hit a modern car, the bill will be HUGE.

 

[960design]

No offence meant to those who love their Tesla, but I don’t think they are for me, plus they are pretty bland looking compared to other EV’s out there and that’s purely my subjective opinion.

Cannot argue that, they are pretty basic. I appreciate the low key look. Cannot decide if the next one will be the Porsche or if I will keep with the Tesla brand. We will see how the world is in three to five years. Heck, my next ride might be a horse: American Quarter? or Appaloosa?

 

[icanhazmac]

Whelp... took my first baby step today and test drove a Model Y.

Test Drive Experience: Wow! What a difference from traditional dealerships. Quick look at the license, name, email addy, phone number and you move on to a VERY quick intro to the car, settings, etc. and they let you roll by yourself. this dealer said "take a half hour if you want". I am very surprised that more Teslas aren't crashed during the test drive because they give you such a short tutorial and let you go alone. They are a little different to drive.

Car: I have to say that I was fairly impressed! Ingress/egress was painless, legroom was better than most in the size/class. I was very impressed by how comfortable my right leg was against the center console. You would be surprised how many manufacturers have odd angles or corners there that dig into the side of my leg, just below the knee. Hip room and seat size was adequate, shoulder room and thigh support could use a couple more inches but unless I drive a full size truck I rarely get that. Gotta love the acceleration! The screen was a little distracting but I am fairly sure that passes quickly. I was not all that impressed by the sound system, it sounded very.... cheap, maybe that is too harsh but I feel it could have been better. Took me a good amount of time to figure out how to turn off the turd warmer and it was set on high! Never had a wheel warmer and while I always run hot I can see how that might be nice on winter mornings.

My use case: This is what is holding me back. I drive 30-40k/yr for work which will kill the battery warranty in ~3 years. I understand that the battery should last much longer but the cost of being wrong on this is much higher than a typical ICE where if you need to replace a motor you might be looking at 4-6k, not upwards of 15k if my little bit of research holds true. Charging also is a concern as I have watched a couple of "road trip" videos on YT and it seems that using the Tesla planner tries to keep you in the 20-80% realm so you might stop multiple times a day depending on conditions. What concerns me there is how many times would I need to stop in a day and for how long based on what kwh charger, how busy is it, etc. These videos also seem to be folks that are home at night and able to charge, so arriving at home with 20% is no matter. For me, getting back to a hotel with 20 means I need to find another charger at night or first thing in the morning. Not show stoppers but will definitely be a little learning curve.

Other stuff: Is it true that Teslas burn through tires, as in every 25k? I get that they are heavy but that seems excessive and at the miles I turn that could be 2 sets in a year depending on conditions. While we are on tires, how many of you have snow shoes for your Tesla? The stock conty's I saw on this one didn't seem like they like snow much.

Thoughts and feedback appreciated.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Cannot argue that, they are pretty basic. I appreciate the low key look. Cannot decide if the next one will be the Porsche or if I will keep with the Tesla brand. We will see how the world is in three to five years. Heck, my next ride might be a horse: American Quarter? or Appaloosa?

Love it The horses are easier to choose; for us, it will be a Friesian but also a Draft. We are in the process of moving. Car wise it is a lot harder, I want something to change my Range Rover, but not much in that segment yet. I'm waiting a bit to see what Land Rover is doing for their Range Rover model. But otherwise I might be tempted by the EQS SUV, or Taycan Sport Cross. Although I also like the Lotus Eletre or Polestar 3.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Whelp... took my first baby step today and test drove a Model Y.

Test Drive Experience: Wow! What a difference from traditional dealerships. Quick look at the license, name, email addy, phone number and you move on to a VERY quick intro to the car, settings, etc. and they let you roll by yourself. this dealer said "take a half hour if you want". I am very surprised that more Teslas aren't crashed during the test drive because they give you such a short tutorial and let you go alone. They are a little different to drive.

Car: I have to say that I was fairly impressed! Ingress/egress was painless, legroom was better than most in the size/class. I was very impressed by how comfortable my right leg was against the center console. You would be surprised how many manufacturers have odd angles or corners there that dig into the side of my leg, just below the knee. Hip room and seat size was adequate, shoulder room and thigh support could use a couple more inches but unless I drive a full size truck I rarely get that. Gotta love the acceleration! The screen was a little distracting but I am fairly sure that passes quickly. I was not all that impressed by the sound system, it sounded very.... cheap, maybe that is too harsh but I feel it could have been better. Took me a good amount of time to figure out how to turn off the turd warmer and it was set on high! Never had a wheel warmer and while I always run hot I can see how that might be nice on winter mornings.

My use case: This is what is holding me back. I drive 30-40k/yr for work which will kill the battery warranty in ~3 years. I understand that the battery should last much longer but the cost of being wrong on this is much higher than a typical ICE where if you need to replace a motor you might be looking at 4-6k, not upwards of 15k if my little bit of research holds true. Charging also is a concern as I have watched a couple of "road trip" videos on YT and it seems that using the Tesla planner tries to keep you in the 20-80% realm so you might stop multiple times a day depending on conditions. What concerns me there is how many times would I need to stop in a day and for how long based on what kwh charger, how busy is it, etc. These videos also seem to be folks that are home at night and able to charge, so arriving at home with 20% is no matter. For me, getting back to a hotel with 20 means I need to find another charger at night or first thing in the morning. Not show stoppers but will definitely be a little learning curve.

Other stuff: Is it true that Teslas burn through tires, as in every 25k? I get that they are heavy but that seems excessive and at the miles I turn that could be 2 sets in a year depending on conditions. While we are on tires, how many of you have snow shoes for your Tesla? The stock conty's I saw on this one didn't seem like they like snow much.

Thoughts and feedback appreciated.

All EV’s seem to get through tyres quicker. But that is offset by the lack of oil changes etc. no cam belt to change either.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I dont' think EV's are materially harsher on tyres when comparing to equally powered or heavy ICE vehicles. On the contrary in my experience.