Who is the Mac Pro going to be for?

[k2focus]

popular youtubers to use with their red cameras
and most will wish they could be so cool and cant afford but they have to use what they do to be cool so they buy a cheaper apple product to feel in and cool


yeah sarcasm with truth sadly

a few creatives (people who do design or photography or video what I mean nothing to do with being creative)
for a living as a pro photographer I have 3 old mac pros one sitting aside the 3,1 and 5,1 in work along with a intel 7820x and 1080 GPU running windows I hate windows for a few reasons so might keep it for the one app I built it for Capture one OR hackintosh it ?

MY huge issue is adobe is suck bloatware these days and not taking advantage of things and are so so so so so slow to do so I do not feel the super power is needed anymore ?
I am a full time photographer wife is full time graphic designer I do not do video on that level so I will leave the video to those that do it for a living speaking as a photographer adobe is in the way of itself

so even the pro photographer might not care about the new mac pro BUT we are in a horrid spot hardware wise because of the current idiocy that apple is about these days ? lack of proper gpu choices and such so a real motherboard with proper upgrade paths to at least GPU and such but then will it be locked out with certain firmware requirements T2 maybe then t3 chip making it impossible to only buy apple gpu or maybe even apple ram ? I can see that happening sadly

so will wait and see what it is how much it is and restrictions the days of apple behind ahead of the game are long over now they trail by years !!!!

don't even get me started on the youtube tech guys with reds...

i'm in the same boat as you. used mac for years, and i'm a wedding photgrapher. apple currently offers nothing that is enticing for me, so i bought a decked out PC. took a little getting used to, but i'm glad i did it. no way can apple offer hardware options like this.

don't get me wrong, if apple offered something at the time i might have stayed, but they turned into a phone company and now a credit card company. hopefully, by the time i need a new computer they will have started to make real ones again.

 

[AlexMaximus]

maybe i read this wrong, but are you saying that people who buy macs are more creative, colorful (whatever that means), and more innovative, or is that a joke?
[doublepost=1555014168][/doublepost]
my understanding is that the top mini throttles, doesn't have a GPU, and only has 2 usb type-a's - that's ain't a pro system.

don't get me wrong, it's nice, but it's not pro at all. also, what i7 chip is it? it's not the the full desktop 8700 is it? not only that, but 9th gen chips are out.

maybe i read this wrong, but are you saying that people who buy macs are more creative, colorful (whatever that means), and more innovative, or is that a joke?
[doublepost=1555014168][/doublepost]
my understanding is that the top mini throttles, doesn't have a GPU, and only has 2 usb type-a's - that's ain't a pro system.

don't get me wrong, it's nice, but it's not pro at all. also, what i7 chip is it? it's not the the full desktop 8700 is it? not only that, but 9th gen chips are out.

Its just a tool, it all comes down to the one in front of the screen of course. But I think most people do not realize in what kind of small bracket of the population they really are.

Watching the clip above, how small is the bracket that has indeed access to such a tool like a MP?

 

[Honumaui]

don't even get me started on the youtube tech guys with reds...

i'm in the same boat as you. used mac for years, and i'm a wedding photgrapher. apple currently offers nothing that is enticing for me, so i bought a decked out PC. took a little getting used to, but i'm glad i did it. no way can apple offer hardware options like this.

don't get me wrong, if apple offered something at the time i might have stayed, but they turned into a phone company and now a credit card company. hopefully, by the time i need a new computer they will have started to make real ones again.

hahahahahah OH yeah the whole red idiocy and the new "influencers"

cool to hear the wedding photographer our needs are even more niche specific these days

I shot weddings for about 15 years but out of it now from Maui originally so insane numbers out there !!!!

I shoot tethered mostly these days into C1 why I built the PC and I do retouching for other pros

but I need to force myself (on windows) maybe but the file explorer to me is so dated without column view or tagging etc..

 

[iluvmacs99]

i'm one of the people who switched back to PC. the
[doublepost=1555011005][/doublepost]

i appreciate the long and thorough response. however, i still don't get who this is for. i don't think people who are serious video editors will want to buy a mini with an eGPU for more than a PC with way higher specs and an nvidia internal card. i also don't see many people forking over the huge amount i'm assuming the new mac pros are going to cost (i'm only assuming) for non K intel chips and non nvidia GPUs to edit videos. don't forget, you can easily overclock the intel K version with a simple AIO or even large fan and get a decently higher clock speed. who knows - maybe apple will have amazing water coolers pumping these chips up to like 6.0 GHz, but I doubt it.
[doublepost=1555011191][/doublepost]

the idea of a modular mac pro goes against your logic of people not wanting to mess with computers. that's who the imac pro is for.

i think the main reason people don't mind spending the cash on macs is that they believe (whether it's true or not is debateable) that apple will just sell you an amazing computer and it will just feel like magic out of the box. mac pros are for people who really want to treat it like a PC with OSX as their operating system.

[/QUOTE]

Not everyone who drives a car is a competent car mechanic. I think you are assuming everyone who owns a computer is a competent computer technician and knows the ins and outs. The reality is that, not everyone knows computers all that well. They may be talented in areas that require a computer to realize the vision, but they are not necessarily as talented as you do in terms of figuring out the processor, cooling, drives etc... They need help from the technical community and that's where Apple Genius bar comes into play. To some people, the Mac Pro is a black box and it works. Creative people aren't necessarily wanting to deal with stress trying to figure out any issues. They just want to create and sometimes, you have to pay more for the convenience just the same as going to the vending machine and buy a chocolate bar and pay more because of the convenience factor, or else go to Costco, figure out where that chocolate bar is and then buy a box full to save more.

 

[k2focus]

Not everyone who drives a car is a competent car mechanic. I think you are assuming everyone who owns a computer is a competent computer technician and knows the ins and outs. The reality is that, not everyone knows computers all that well. They may be talented in areas that require a computer to realize the vision, but they are not necessarily as talented as you do in terms of figuring out the processor, cooling, drives etc... They need help from the technical community and that's where Apple Genius bar comes into play. To some people, the Mac Pro is a black box and it works. Creative people aren't necessarily wanting to deal with stress trying to figure out any issues. They just want to create and sometimes, you have to pay more for the convenience just the same as going to the vending machine and buy a chocolate bar and pay more because of the convenience factor, or else go to Costco, figure out where that chocolate bar is and then buy a box full to save more.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that people who don't want to build or upgrade a computer and people who don't know anything about specs are going to want to buy a upgradeable custom Mac computer?

 

[aaronhead14]

Indeed. However, as long as Apple continues to celebrate its feud with Nvidia all we can hope for is mediocre graphics performance.
As much as I like AMD, their graphic accelerators simply cannot compete with Nvidia's especially when it comes to high end cards

Spot on. If Apple really doesn't have NVIDIA cards as at least an option, then the new Mac Pro will have already failed. I mean, the executives at Apple have to know that, right?

 

[Menthol]

1) I prefer the Mac OS to Windows.
2) I am already heavily invested in Mac software and the Mac ecosystem.
3) I do audio, have some hardware synthesizers, and need a PCI slot. Thus an iMac or Mini won't do it for me.
4) I need multiple disk drives.
5) I want all this in one box so my desktop isn't strewn with all sorts of crap.

I have no idea if Apple is going to deliver this but am willing to wait and see while I coddle my Mac Pro 5,1. If Apple blows this I'll deal with it then. For now, fingers crossed ...

 

[thefredelement]

I think it's going to at least be suitable for software developers in a base configuration and then upgradeable for varying degrees of video work.

 

[09872738]

Spot on. If Apple really doesn't have NVIDIA cards as at least an option, then the new Mac Pro will have already failed. I mean, the executives at Apple have to know that, right?

One should assume so, yes. That said, this is no different to what it has been for quite a while now, so I guess the assumption is valid that Apple execs chose to ignore/not care (and instead invested heavily in FCPX/AMD software optimisation. Not that its a bad thing). The non-existence of Mojave drivers for Nvidias is not exactly encouraging in that regard.

 

[iluvmacs99]

Not everyone who drives a car is a competent car mechanic. I think you are assuming everyone who owns a computer is a competent computer technician and knows the ins and outs. The reality is that, not everyone knows computers all that well. They may be talented in areas that require a computer to realize the vision, but they are not necessarily as talented as you do in terms of figuring out the processor, cooling, drives etc... They need help from the technical community and that's where Apple Genius bar comes into play. To some people, the Mac Pro is a black box and it works. Creative people aren't necessarily wanting to deal with stress trying to figure out any issues. They just want to create and sometimes, you have to pay more for the convenience just the same as going to the vending machine and buy a chocolate bar and pay more because of the convenience factor, or else go to Costco, figure out where that chocolate bar is and then buy a box full to save more.

Are you saying that people who don't want to build or upgrade a computer and people who don't know anything about specs are going to want to buy a upgradeable custom Mac computer?[/QUOTE]

Yes and that's mainly Apple's target market and has been the vision of Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs wanted a computer that's equivalent to a toaster and he even took away the licensing of clone Macs so others can no longer make Mac clones. In the past, some licensed Mac clones had more powerful specs than the stock Apple Macs!! It was Steve Job's decision to turn Apple into a company that make computers, iPhones and iPads and even the Apple Watch for people who just want them to work like a toaster.

 

[thefredelement]

Are you saying that people who don't want to build or upgrade a computer and people who don't know anything about specs are going to want to buy a upgradeable custom Mac computer?

Yes and that's mainly Apple's target market and has been the vision of Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs wanted a computer that's equivalent to a toaster and he even took away the licensing of clone Macs so others can no longer make Mac clones. In the past, some licensed Mac clones had more powerful specs than the stock Apple Macs!! It was Steve Job's decision to turn Apple into a company that make computers, iPhones and iPads and even the Apple Watch for people who just want them to work like a toaster.

Cylons

Everywhere

 

[Quicksilver867]

It will be for those with >$3000 limits on their credit line.

 

[LogicalVue]

As a software developer and tech nerd, the Mac Pro has been for me, at least in the past. My first Macs were PowerMac G4s. When the Intel era arrived, I switched to an iMac and then later a MacBook Pro, but both were mistakes for me as I quickly outgrew them because of limited expandability.

So I bought a 2009 Mac Pro and continue to use it to this day, albeit with upgraded 6-core CPU, SSDs, and Nvidia video for HiDPI 4K.

The 2013 Mac Pro was interesting, but ultimately not a good fit for a software developer who didn't need dual video cards nor a tech nerd with its limited expandability.

But my 2009 Mac Pro is getting long in the tooth, especially for single-core tasks, so I'd like to upgrade.

Recent desktop Macs are quite powerful and enticing, but I won't make a purchase decision until I know what the new Mac Pro will be. The 2018 Mac mini with its 6-core i7 is a strong contender (at about $2000). As is the new iMac with 8-core i9 (at about $3000). Both allow RAM expandability and nothing else (internal at least). The iMac Pro is more than I'm comfortable paying for a non-expandable computer. TB3 expansion is a nice option, but does add to desk clutter and possible noise.

I'm expecting (hoping?) a new Mac Pro to start at $4000, a $1000 jump from the last Mac Pro. At that price, if the starting specs match an iMac Pro and the expandability is there it just might win out due to longevity and ability to feed my inner tech nerd.

There better be something shown/announced at WWDC!

 

[k2focus]

Will you still be willing to buy it for a starting price of 4k if it doesn't support Nvidia GPUs and only comes with ECC memory?
[doublepost=1555084395][/doublepost]

As a software developer and tech nerd, the Mac Pro has been for me, at least in the past. My first Macs were PowerMac G4s. When the Intel era arrived, I switched to an iMac and then later a MacBook Pro, but both were mistakes for me as I quickly outgrew them because of limited expandability.

So I bought a 2009 Mac Pro and continue to use it to this day, albeit with upgraded 6-core CPU, SSDs, and Nvidia video for HiDPI 4K.

The 2013 Mac Pro was interesting, but ultimately not a good fit for a software developer who didn't need dual video cards nor a tech nerd with its limited expandability.

But my 2009 Mac Pro is getting long in the tooth, especially for single-core tasks, so I'd like to upgrade.

Recent desktop Macs are quite powerful and enticing, but I won't make a purchase decision until I know what the new Mac Pro will be. The 2018 Mac mini with its 6-core i7 is a strong contender (at about $2000). As is the new iMac with 8-core i9 (at about $3000). Both allow RAM expandability and nothing else (internal at least). The iMac Pro is more than I'm comfortable paying for a non-expandable computer. TB3 expansion is a nice option, but does add to desk clutter and possible noise.

I'm expecting (hoping?) a new Mac Pro to start at $4000, a $1000 jump from the last Mac Pro. At that price, if the starting specs match an iMac Pro and the expandability is there it just might win out due to longevity and ability to feed my inner tech nerd.

There better be something shown/announced at WWDC!

Will you still be willing to buy it for a starting price of 4k if it doesn't support Nvidia GPUs and only comes with ECC memory?

 

[thefredelement]

As a software developer and tech nerd, the Mac Pro has been for me, at least in the past. My first Macs were PowerMac G4s. When the Intel era arrived, I switched to an iMac and then later a MacBook Pro, but both were mistakes for me as I quickly outgrew them because of limited expandability.

So I bought a 2009 Mac Pro and continue to use it to this day, albeit with upgraded 6-core CPU, SSDs, and Nvidia video for HiDPI 4K.

The 2013 Mac Pro was interesting, but ultimately not a good fit for a software developer who didn't need dual video cards nor a tech nerd with its limited expandability.

But my 2009 Mac Pro is getting long in the tooth, especially for single-core tasks, so I'd like to upgrade.

Recent desktop Macs are quite powerful and enticing, but I won't make a purchase decision until I know what the new Mac Pro will be. The 2018 Mac mini with its 6-core i7 is a strong contender (at about $2000). As is the new iMac with 8-core i9 (at about $3000). Both allow RAM expandability and nothing else (internal at least). The iMac Pro is more than I'm comfortable paying for a non-expandable computer. TB3 expansion is a nice option, but does add to desk clutter and possible noise.

I'm expecting (hoping?) a new Mac Pro to start at $4000, a $1000 jump from the last Mac Pro. At that price, if the starting specs match an iMac Pro and the expandability is there it just might win out due to longevity and ability to feed my inner tech nerd.

There better be something shown/announced at WWDC!

When I use a 2018 MBP (15" model w/multiple cores) the fan noise and compile times drive me insane compared to the 6,1.

 

[telequest]

Doing graphics and then video editing professionally on a Mac, especially since the heyday of Final Cut Pro, up to v7: various Power Macs, then G3, G4 and G5 towers and finally a 5,1 Mac Pro which I've upgraded periodically since 2010 to keep it speedy enough for HD video. Up through FCP 7 (which was Mac only), the software available only on the Mac platform was key. But the FCP X fiasco pushed me over into Adobe CC almost entirely (including Premiere Pro and After Effects) which is of course cross-platform. MacOS is what I'm used to, and I've got Apple laptop, phone and tablet as well ... so I'd prefer to stay with Mac for the ecosystem overall. And since my Mac desktop is how I make my living, I need something bulletproof and robust and long-lasting (like my 5,1) ... so willing to pay a bit of a premium for that.

Hoping the tcMP was just an unfortunate detour (which I avoided) and that the next MP iteration will be back on track, in which case I'll be in the market for one. My current rig is great for HD video but chokes on 4K (Premiere's option to create proxies helps). But if I was starting out fresh in video & motion graphics production, I would agree that it would make sense to look at alternatives to the Mac. Apple hasn't lost me yet, but they'll need something compelling to keep me.

 

[ssgbryan]

Are you saying that people who don't want to build or upgrade a computer and people who don't know anything about specs are going to want to buy a upgradeable custom Mac computer?

Yes and that's mainly Apple's target market and has been the vision of Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs wanted a computer that's equivalent to a toaster and he even took away the licensing of clone Macs so others can no longer make Mac clones. In the past, some licensed Mac clones had more powerful specs than the stock Apple Macs!! It was Steve Job's decision to turn Apple into a company that make computers, iPhones and iPads and even the Apple Watch for people who just want them to work like a toaster.[/QUOTE]

Steve whacked the clones because Apple couldn’t keep up. The clones were miles ahead of what Apple offered and cheaper to boot.

 

[AidenShaw]

Are you saying that people who don't want to build or upgrade a computer and people who don't know anything about specs are going to want to buy a upgradeable custom Mac computer?

YES !!

For these people, the value of an upgradeable computer can be in the choice of options available *at*the*time*of*purchase*.

Even if they never open the case, there are lots of options in the original configuration.

Look at the list of BTO options on an HP Z-series. Compare that to the 6,1, new MiniMac and the iMac Pro. (Don't compare the options list for a ThinkPad or other business/pro laptop to the MBP, you'll want to cry.)

I wholeheartedly agree that most systems are never upgraded - after the original order. But many people, even those who aren't technical, can understand the value configuring a system for their needs.
[doublepost=1555104293][/doublepost]

It will be for those with >$3000 limits on their credit line.

Or even better - "those with unencumbered balances over $3000 in their checking accounts".

If you can't pay in cash (or pay off the credit card charge without interest), you probably shouldn't be a Mac Pro customer.

 

[LogicalVue]

Will you still be willing to buy it for a starting price of 4k if it doesn't support Nvidia GPUs and only comes with ECC memory?

Absolutely. As I mentioned, being a software developer I don't really need a powerful GPU. I only went with Nvidia on my Mac Pro because it was the least expensive way to get 4K retina. And that has burned me since I can't upgrade to Mojave as Apple and Nvidia cannot agree to release drivers.

And why is ECC memory a negative? The iMac Pro has it, my iMac Pro has it and with a large amount of RAM is a nice safeguard to improve overall stability.

 

[k2focus]

Absolutely. As I mentioned, being a software developer I don't really need a powerful GPU. I only went with Nvidia on my Mac Pro because it was the least expensive way to get 4K retina. And that has burned me since I can't upgrade to Mojave as Apple and Nvidia cannot agree to release drivers.

And why is ECC memory a negative? The iMac Pro has it, my iMac Pro has it and with a large amount of RAM is a nice safeguard to improve overall stability.

I mean ECC isn't bad, but it's silly for anything other than supercomputer stuff and stock trading. It's like buying a Ferrari to only drive across the street. I bet just about no one with an imac pro would have ever asked for (most would have never even heard of ECC) ECC memory if apple didnt include it. All it does is raise the price for no reason. I feel like it's the same with the xeon. Wouldn't it have been way better to have an over clocked i9 with proper thermals? What programs are "creatives" running that ask for tons of cores over lots of cores with high clock speeds. I just get the sense that apple put the most expensive and pointless components into the imac pro just to say look we have expensive parts. It's just as silly as people choosing cameras for no other reason than MP when all they do is post on FB. Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anyone give me a reason why.

 

[ssgbryan]

I mean ECC isn't bad, but it's silly for anything other than supercomputer stuff and stock trading. It's like buying a Ferrari to only drive across the street. I bet just about no one with an imac pro would have ever asked for (most would have never even heard of ECC) ECC memory if apple didnt include it. All it does is raise the price for no reason. I feel like it's the same with the xeon. Wouldn't it have been way better to have an over clocked i9 with proper thermals? What programs are "creatives" running that ask for tons of cores over lots of cores with high clock speeds. I just get the sense that apple put the most expensive and pointless components into the imac pro just to say look we have expensive parts. It's just as silly as people choosing cameras for no other reason than MP when all they do is post on FB. Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anyone give me a reason why.

You are wrong. Those of us that do stuff need the horsepower.

ECC ram isn’t silly if it keeps the render that took you a day to set up and run from blowing up.

In the 3D art world, every render engine will take every core and byte of ram we can throw at it, even the free ones, like Luxrender.

I am not talking Industrial Light and Magic level - I am talking hobbyist level software. If you are on a Mac, you only have 1 choice, a Mac Pro - everything else will simply melt (ask me how I know )

i9s can’t go over 128Gb of ram and they simply don’t have the core counts to do what I do, as a hobbyist. The other thing you don’t seem to get is that workstation parts are better binned parts - they are designed to be driven hard (why my next GPU will come with a 10 year warranty). Consumer level hardware, not so much.

Oh, and 44pcie lanes aren’t enough either.

I am running up against the wall at 12 cores (@ 2.93Ghz) & 96Gb of ram. Which is why my next box will more than likely be an epyc based box.

I like the idea of all 32 cores turboing @ 3+GHz. Which a Xeon can’t do.

One more thing.....
That 32 core/64 thread box?

$6,500.

 

[k2focus]

You are wrong. Those of us that do stuff need the horsepower.

ECC ram isn’t silly if it keeps the render that took you a day to set up and run from blowing up.

In the 3D art world, every render engine will take every core and byte of ram we can throw at it, even the free ones, like Luxrender.

I am not talking Industrial Light and Magic level - I am talking hobbyist level software. If you are on a Mac, you only have 1 choice, a Mac Pro - everything else will simply melt (ask me how I know )

i9s can’t go over 128Gb of ram and they simply don’t have the core counts to do what I do, as a hobbyist. The other thing you don’t seem to get is that workstation parts are better binned parts - they are designed to be driven hard (why my next GPU will come with a 10 year warranty). Consumer level hardware, not so much.

Oh, and 44pcie lanes aren’t enough either.

I am running up against the wall at 12 cores (@ 2.93Ghz) & 96Gb of ram. Which is why my next box will more than likely be an epyc based box.

I like the idea of all 32 cores turboing @ 3+GHz. Which a Xeon can’t do.

One more thing.....
That 32 core/64 thread box?

$6,500.

That's all well and good, but who would be willing to buy a system at that price for rendering without Nvidia support. I thought lots of 3d rendering stuff requires quadro. If not surely a 2080 ti, or two in SLI would be much much faster. I can't imagine anyone spending that type of money only to be bottlenecked by their GPU simply because they like really like OSX.

 

[gazwas]

I guess my needs are very abnormal to most but I too am a photographer and Mac Pro to me is about buying the best and most accurate high end display I can get, then hook up a powerful computer to it.

The computer needs to be fast but most importantly it should be flexible with upgrade potential in the future. When it finally comes to upgrade time I’m only
needing to buy the box as my amazing display still works perfectly.

 

[k2focus]

I guess my needs are very abnormal to most but I too am a photographer and Mac Pro to me is about buying the best and most accurate high end display I can get, then hook up a powerful computer to it.

The computer needs to be fast but most importantly it should be flexible with upgrade potential in the future. When it finally comes to upgrade time I’m only
needing to buy the box as my amazing display still works perfectly.

I'm a wedding photographer, so I need a nice display and computer, but that's why I had to switch to PC. I don't get buying a Mac for photo work nowadays. Software is the same on both platforms, and the hardware available on PC in better and cheaper at the moment. I understand getting a Mac for your personal computer because of the OS, but why spend the money on a Mac for photography anymore?

 

[Alaska_guy]

To simply answer your question, marketing and personal love for apple would be the only reason. No technical reason to choose a mac over a PC these days if your strictly talking cost.

However, there are a lot of features that people find handy that comes with a mac natively.... terminal, ssh, backup/restore that works so great you don't need a computer genius to fix it if something was to go wrong... The user interface.

Back when the mac pros came out it was their box and monitor that was so far ahead of PC'S that everyone had to have one. Their 32" 2k monitor resolution back in 2007/2008 was just light years ahead of anything else. It was refined, made out of aluminum, felt and looked amazing.

Typical PC'S are cheap plastic or sheet metal cases. They are a dime a dozen and nothing special to write home about.

Since compute architecture has gotten so far ahead of software it makes little to no sense for Apple to release a new Mac pro. Especially when the compitition can counter with a machine that's cheaper.

The mac pro market just doesn't make sense to launch anytime soon in my humble opinion. I own a 2009 mac pro, my dad bought a 2008 dual proc machine with their 32" monitor brand new. Back then it was bragging rights due to having server architecture stuff in this amazing package and nothing out there really came close to competing...

Today the hardware market is so saturated Apple would have to spend serious dollars on looks, quality aluminum case with some seriously cool machine work that you couldn't find anywhere else to really grab people. Most people I know who bought the mac pro or still do is because they believe it's a work of art in that case design and appreciate the level of professionalism and talent that went into it. I haven't personally seen any case design anywhere near the level since the mac pro design.

I wouldn't need a mac pro, but if they did it right like they did before I would buy one over a PC simply because I appreciate a company who goes above and beyond to set them selves apart.