Who would be interested in this "7,1" Mac Pro

[monkeybagel]

I feel it is pretty much uncontested that the 2013 Mac Pro was not a successful product for Apple, nor adopted well by previous Mac Pro customers.

I have a 2012 Mac Pro, dual 3.06 Xeon processors and an upgraded GTX 980Ti and 128GB of RAM. I feel this could be my last Macintosh desktop unless Apple puts a product out there that I would actually be excited about purchasing. While the 6,1 would be a "neat" product to have, it does not meet my needs for upgradability. The reason I do not want to leave the Apple platform is the same reason almost everyone else does: OS X.

If Apple would launch a new workstation targeted at workstation users, with current technology, several PCI slots, tower form factor, several internal drive bays with SAS support, current Intel Xeon options, tool-less tower design, and even a new, alternate version of OS X that is specifically designed for professional users (similar to the way Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 R2 relate to one another) with a dedicated support department and five year warranty options, I really think this would be a home run for Apple. The OS stability is currently there, with uptime measured in months other than needing to restart for updates, and the new file system is around the corner, this could be what the professional market is looking for. I don't feel Microsoft stepped up to the plate with Windows 10, and the reason it has been as successful as it has is that it was free for most users. Windows 8 flopped, Windows 8.1 did slightly better, and Windows 10 has massive privacy issues. I feel this is a chance for Apple to release a product that would satisfy the pent up demand that professional users are looking for. The HP Workstations and Dell Precision workstations are great, but they are stuck running Windows or *nix with few professional application options compared to OS X. Windows is fine for corporate users, but for workstation users that rely on media creation, iOS coding, virtualization, and other RAM and processor intensive tasks, an internally expandable Mac Pro running a less "consumerized" version of OS X I think would really be a hit. And it would be trivial to include options that current Mac Pro tower users have learned to do without - Thunderbolt 3, USB-C, USB 3.1, etc.

Are others seriously considering leaving the platform when the 5,1 reaches the end of its useful life, or would you consider a 5k iMac? I still have several Macintosh notebooks, but with the lack of upgradability spreading like cancer in their Macintosh products, I am not sure how much longer I will feel it is in my best interest to continue purchasing them.

 

[flat five]

I feel it is pretty much uncontested that the 2013 Mac Pro was not a successful product for Apple, nor adopted well by previous Mac Pro customers.

I have a 2012 Mac Pro, dual 3.06 Xeon processors and an upgraded GTX 980Ti and 128GB of RAM. I feel this could be my last Macintosh desktop unless Apple puts a product out there that I would actually be excited about purchasing. While the 6,1 would be a "neat" product to have, it does not meet my needs for upgradability. The reason I do not want to leave the Apple platform is the same reason almost everyone else does: OS X.

If Apple would launch a new workstation targeted at workstation users, with current technology, several PCI slots, tower form factor, several internal drive bays with SAS support, current Intel Xeon options, tool-less tower design, and even a new, alternate version of OS X that is specifically designed for professional users (similar to the way Windows 8.1 and Windows Server 2012 R2 relate to one another) with a dedicated support department and five year warranty options, I really think this would be a home run for Apple. The OS stability is currently there, with uptime measured in months other than needing to restart for updates, and the new file system is around the corner, this could be what the professional market is looking for. I don't feel Microsoft stepped up to the plate with Windows 10, and the reason it has been as successful as it has is that it was free for most users. Windows 8 flopped, Windows 8.1 did slightly better, and Windows 10 has massive privacy issues. I feel this is a chance for Apple to release a product that would satisfy the pent up demand that professional users are looking for. The HP Workstations and Dell Precision workstations are great, but they are stuck running Windows or *nix with few professional application options compared to OS X. Windows is fine for corporate users, but for workstation users that rely on media creation, iOS coding, virtualization, and other RAM and processor intensive tasks, an internally expandable Mac Pro running a less "consumerized" version of OS X I think would really be a hit. And it would be trivial to include options that current Mac Pro tower users have learned to do without - Thunderbolt 3, USB-C, USB 3.1, etc.

Are others seriously considering leaving the platform when the 5,1 reaches the end of its useful life, or would you consider a 5k iMac? I still have several Macintosh notebooks, but with the lack of upgradability spreading like cancer in their Macintosh products, I am not sure how much longer I will feel it is in my best interest to continue purchasing them.

hey monkeybagel..
welcome to the macrumors mac pro sub-forum..
what forum do you usually post in?

i think you'll find several people with similar wishes here.

 

[monkeybagel]

hey monkeybagel..
welcome to the macrumors mac pro sub-forum..
what forum do you usually post in?

i think you'll find several people with similar wishes here.

I haven't recently. I know many have similar wishes; I suppose where mine is different is to fork the OS X versions to reduce the consumer features and optimize the OS more for workstation use.
[doublepost=1474603908][/doublepost]

I haven't recently. I know many have similar wishes; I suppose where mine is different is to fork the OS X versions to reduce the consumer features and optimize the OS more for workstation use.

I am also interested in who is considering leaving the platform, and what would they go to? Window management in OS X is so much better IMO, there doesn't seem to be a good alternative that I know of. Would love to hear other people's experience if they changed platforms, and to what.

 

[flat five]

I haven't recently. I know many have similar wishes; I suppose where mine is different is to fork the OS X versions to reduce the consumer features and optimize the OS more for workstation use.

oh.. something like macOS and macOS+ (or whatever)?

see, my other comment had a little snark twinge on it because i was thinking "what can we possibly talk about that hasn't been talked about a hundred times over so far?"

but, a forked osx is a fresh idea to me.. it's interesting to think about.

forum member AidenShaw has another idea about apple licensing OS X to other manufactures while maintaining limited use.. like, all the macs will run os x and then, there are maybe 20 other computers you could run the OS on.. an HP-Z for instance.. that's an ok idea too which is sort of similar to yours but maybe would be a better option for the traditional workstation users to get the hardware/software combo they're wishing for.

 

[blindpcguy]

I'm with ya I'm a 1,1 user love it and its upgradability and would love a tower option another idea though if they absolutely have to keep the cylinder why not have it where you could take the top cover off and slide it int oa tower form factor case with some weird proprietary connection method or something that would give pick drive bays and such id prefer a new full map ro as in the old ones as well but idk if that will happen i hope it does but man I'm not sure if apple would give up that easily i hope I'm wrong but if not maybe they can find a half way point

 

[monkeybagel]

oh.. something like macOS and macOS+ (or whatever)?

see, my other comment had a little snark twinge on it because i was thinking "what can we possibly talk about that hasn't been talked about a hundred times over so far?"

but, a forked osx is a fresh idea to me.. it's interesting to think about.

forum member AidenShaw has another idea about apple licensing OS X to other manufactures while maintaining limited use.. like, all the macs will run os x and then, there are maybe 20 other computers you could run the OS on.. an HP-Z for instance.. that's an ok idea too which is sort of similar to yours but maybe would be a better option for the traditional workstation users to get the hardware/software combo they're wishing for.

With the forked version of OS X, (I assume it could be compared to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB) also provide an EOL date up front, where Apple will release security updates for it for a good while. Microsoft does 10 years. It would be nice if Apple would do 10 years, but with the rapid release cycle that Apple and Microsoft (doing their *-as-a-Service thing, read:subscription) it would make 10 year support fairly unreasonable, but at least make it known. The last update to 10.10 and 10.11 to update the kernel vulnerability is an important patch, and it would certainly be important to professional users.

I am not sure if you have installed Snow Leopard Server, but it is quite a bit different than standard Snow Leopard.

Apple could certainly pull this off, and increase market share rather than bleeding the market share of professional users.
[doublepost=1474606928][/doublepost]

I'm with ya I'm a 1,1 user love it and its upgradability and would love a tower option another idea though if they absolutely have to keep the cylinder why not have it where you could take the top cover off and slide it int oa tower form factor case with some weird proprietary connection method or something that would give pick drive bays and such id prefer a new full map ro as in the old ones as well but idk if that will happen i hope it does but man I'm not sure if apple would give up that easily i hope I'm wrong but if not maybe they can find a half way point

The current Mac Pro has so much in common with the G4 Cube. It was certainly a neat machine to have sitting on your desk, but in the terms of Steve Jobs, there is still a big need for "trucks" although not every single person needs them.

Before moving exclusively to Windows, I would probably get a 6,1 to and make it last as long as possible.

I work on Windows Servers every day, but Microsoft really blew it starting with Windows 8. Windows Server is a great OS, but the client OS has lost a lot of credibility when it started preinstalling Candy Crush Saga on Windows 10 Professional.

Microsoft, I think, feels that since the OS is free for most users, they are entitled to collect whatever data they want as "telemetry." They record keystrokes to improve autocorrect, but how do they avoid collecting this when I go to an https site to administer a network device and provide credentials to it?
[doublepost=1474607344][/doublepost]

oh.. something like macOS and macOS+ (or whatever)?

see, my other comment had a little snark twinge on it because i was thinking "what can we possibly talk about that hasn't been talked about a hundred times over so far?"

but, a forked osx is a fresh idea to me.. it's interesting to think about.

forum member AidenShaw has another idea about apple licensing OS X to other manufactures while maintaining limited use.. like, all the macs will run os x and then, there are maybe 20 other computers you could run the OS on.. an HP-Z for instance.. that's an ok idea too which is sort of similar to yours but maybe would be a better option for the traditional workstation users to get the hardware/software combo they're wishing for.

The HP-Z would be a great design for Apple to follow.

Apple does occasionally do a few things that make us power users happy, like finally allowing a user to enable TRIM on a non-Apple SSD. Although I honestly don't see why they did this as so many of their machines will not accept a standard SSD drive, but they did it anyway.

Microsoft has open-sourced PowerShell, so it could potentially be run on OS X as well to use WinRM and manage Windows Server directly from Terminal.

 

[flat five]

The HP-Z would be a great design for Apple to follow.

how about an actual HP-Z which is running a special copy of macOS in a supported environment ?
would that not do the trick for you?

 

[monkeybagel]

how about an actual HP-Z which is running a special copy of macOS in a supported environment ?
would that not do the trick for you?

Probably so, yes. I am a fan of the HP Z workstations.

That reminds me of something interesting. Do you recall when Apple partnered with HP with the iPod? That partnership didn't really make any sense to me, but they rebranded their classic iPods at the time as HP and I don't believe they had an Apple logo on them anywhere. Maybe they need to get with HP Enterprise and have some discussions.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

monkeybagel, what you're describing is known as the mythical xmac. Basically a scaled down cMP. If they're not going to make eGPU work seamlessly, I'd love one.

I don't see a need to fork the OS, we already have the server app. Set up a net boot server that images new machines with FaceTime, mission control, and whatever other fluff removed from the dock - or use MCX or 3rd party apps to manage your apps. EOL with specified support terms though? That would be most welcome.

Honestly I wish they would resurrect Apple Computers for enterprise grade hardware:

- Mac Pro towers
- Xserves
- strengthen the relationship with Promise for enterprise storage
- leverage these relationships with Cisco & IBM to bring us some cool stuff

Pipe dreams...

 

[monkeybagel]

monkeybagel, what you're describing is known as the mythical xmac. Basically a scaled down cMP. If they're not going to make eGPU work seamlessly, I'd love one.

I don't see a need to fork the OS, we already have the server app. Set up a net boot server that images new machines with FaceTime, mission control, and whatever other fluff removed from the dock - or use MCX or 3rd party apps to manage your apps. EOL with specified support terms though? That would be most welcome.

Honestly I wish they would resurrect Apple Computers for enterprise grade hardware:

- Mac Pro towers
- Xserves
- strengthen the relationship with Promise for enterprise storage
- leverage these relationships with Cisco & IBM to bring us some cool stuff

Pipe dreams...

I agree with the towers. I have no problem with the 5,1 towers, and I think it is an excellent design, although it could be improved to be completely tool-less. It almost is already.

I am not sure why they went down the road they did with the 6,1. They knew about the pent-up demand for a new Mac Pro, and I don't think anyone suggested anything like what they built, other than USB 3 and Thunderbolt technology, and a newer generation of Xeon processors. They did not have to make it in the form factor they did. Consumers get excited about things like that, i.e. when you rotate it around and the pictograms illuminate above the ports. Enterprise users get excited about expandability and raw power.

 

[JesterJJZ]

I think instead of a separate version of OSX, it should just have a "pro" mode that enables extra options that most people don't need.

 

[ActionableMango]

Are others seriously considering leaving the platform when the 5,1 reaches the end of its useful life, or would you consider a 5k iMac?

Don't know when, but I will be leaving. 5,1 is my last Mac.

I will be happy to be proven wrong if what you suggest happens, but I think it is a foregone conclusion that slots and bays are no longer the Apple way.


Okay technically my 2012 Mac Mini is two years newer, so that is my last Mac. But that doesn't sound as cool, so I'm sticking with my story.

 

[ITguy2016]

I feel it is pretty much uncontested that the 2013 Mac Pro was not a successful product for Apple, nor adopted well by previous Mac Pro customers.

I have a 2012 Mac Pro, dual 3.06 Xeon processors and an upgraded GTX 980Ti and 128GB of RAM. I feel this could be my last Macintosh desktop unless Apple puts a product out there that I would actually be excited about purchasing. While the 6,1 would be a "neat" product to have, it does not meet my needs for upgradability. The reason I do not want to leave the Apple platform is the same reason almost everyone else does: OS X.

While OS X is a nice operating system it's not that great of a product to justify the uncertainty regarding Apple's commitment to the Macintosh. I know many people who loved IRIX over every other OS. They swore they would never use anything else. I'm sure there are a few stalwarts who continue to use an obsolete platform the majority of them accepted reality and moved on to alternative platforms. Macintosh users may find themselves in a similar position. The question is: When do they realize it?

 

[flat five]

you don't use laptops a.mango?

 

[ITguy2016]

I agree with the towers. I have no problem with the 5,1 towers, and I think it is an excellent design, although it could be improved to be completely tool-less. It almost is already.

I am not sure why they went down the road they did with the 6,1. They knew about the pent-up demand for a new Mac Pro, and I don't think anyone suggested anything like what they built, other than USB 3 and Thunderbolt technology, and a newer generation of Xeon processors. They did not have to make it in the form factor they did. Consumers get excited about things like that, i.e. when you rotate it around and the pictograms illuminate above the ports. Enterprise users get excited about expandability and raw power.

This one is easy: Apple places priority on form over substance. They admitted as much when they said "Can't innovate my ass".

 

[JesterJJZ]

Workstations don't need innovation, just more power.

 

[flat five]

form over substance

what's an example of substance over form?

---
and for the record, the 'form over function' phrase that goes around here is a complete butchering of the actual idea -- 'form follows function'.. ie- the concept that designs look the way they do because of what they do with no artificial or unnecessary ornamentation etc.

apple designs are completely adhering to this principle.


the opposite is 'form follows precedent'

 

[monkeybagel]

While OS X is a nice operating system it's not that great of a product to justify the uncertainty regarding Apple's commitment to the Macintosh. I know many people who loved IRIX over every other OS. They swore they would never use anything else. I'm sure there are a few stalwarts who continue to use an obsolete platform the majority of them accepted reality and moved on to alternative platforms. Macintosh users may find themselves in a similar position. The question is: When do they realize it?

I don't see where they have the option to abandon the Macintosh, as right now a Macintosh with OS X and Xcode are required to keep their most profitable products running. They could potentially really screw it up like Microsoft did with Windows 8 RT, and drop x86-64 processors and go with an ARM-based SoC that would cause virtualization to be doomed on the platform, but I certainly hope that doesn't happen.
[doublepost=1474680713][/doublepost]

Don't know when, but I will be leaving. 5,1 is my last Mac.

I will be happy to be proven wrong if what you suggest happens, but I think it is a foregone conclusion that slots and bays are no longer the Apple way.


Okay technically my 2012 Mac Mini is two years newer, so that is my last Mac. But that doesn't sound as cool, so I'm sticking with my story.

What do you anticipate moving to?

 

[ITguy2016]

I don't see where they have the option to abandon the Macintosh, as right now a Macintosh with OS X and Xcode are required to keep their most profitable products running. They could potentially really screw it up like Microsoft did with Windows 8 RT, and drop x86-64 processors and go with an ARM-based SoC that would cause virtualization to be doomed on the platform, but I certainly hope that doesn't happen.

What is to prevent Apple from moving that development to an iPad Pro?

 

[JimGoshorn]

What is to prevent Apple from moving that development to an iPad Pro?

Normally, the answer would be common sense but we are talking about the 3 innovating amigos

 

[monkeybagel]

What is to prevent Apple from moving that development to an iPad Pro?

Hopefully common sense? Who would want to spend hours on end developing on a device that has no pointing device, option for multiple monitors, and limited keyboard options? I think that would fail miserably.

 

[rawweb]

What is to prevent Apple from moving that development to an iPad Pro?

Hopefully common sense? Who would want to spend hours on end developing on a device that has no pointing device, option for multiple monitors, and limited keyboard options? I think that would fail miserably.

Yep @ITguy2016, Tim's Apple would probably do something like that.

He told reporters that people will come to realize that they only need an iPad and iPhone for computing. Pretty much saying he doesn't think people need traditional desktop and laptops. He's also said he can do his job exclusively with those two devices.

I can see a WWDC announcing Xcode for iOS. "It takes courage to code on an iPad Pro". Meanwhile, asses are being innovated somewhere and Tim's writing emails telling people he kinda still loves Mac, maybe?

 

[monkeybagel]

Yep @ITguy2016, Tim's Apple would probably do something like that.

He told reporters that people will come to realize that they only need an iPad and iPhone for computing. Pretty much saying he doesn't think people need traditional desktop and laptops. He's also said he can do his job exclusively with those two devices.

I can see a WWDC announcing Xcode for iOS. "It takes courage to code on an iPad Pro". Meanwhile, asses are being innovated somewhere and Tim's writing emails telling people he kinda still loves Mac, maybe?

Well, I am certainly not "married" to Apple, and will only continue buying their products as long as they fit my needs. Like the majority of users in this subforum, I use Macintoshes for work and not just as a home computer or to play games (I am not a "gamer"). Right now, OS X and my current hardware does that job well, but if it starts falling short compared to other options out there, I am not going to get my feelings hurt to change to something else.

I feel we are lucky to have a UNIX workstation available with a polished interface and great applications on great hardware. Although Apple could theoretically make a build of Xcode for iOS, I don't think they will abandon "real" computer market. It is profitable for them. Maybe not as much as the tablet and smartphone markets, but too much to throw away. It would be sad to be left with only one platform to run professional applications.

It really baffles me that after all of these years Apple has made the superior trackpad for scrolling and other gestures, and the Windows platform and PC OEMs have not been able to really come close to matching it.

 

[ActionableMango]

you don't use laptops a.mango?

No, I had a MBP 1,1 for a couple of years but I could never get anything done on it.

I will say this though, Apple had a monumentally better trackpad than anyone else. I don't know if that's still true today.

 

[flat five]

anecdotally, it's the still the case today.

rhino3D came to mac a couple of years ago.. (whereas it's been only windows for the past decades).
the pc users are generally surprised (and some think it's weird) that so many of the mac users can do actual work with the trackpads.