Who would be interested in this "7,1" Mac Pro

[flyinmac]

Mac Pro 1,1 will likely be my last Mac. I started considering a newer Mac around 2014. I was hoping for a more powerful mini, with the 2012 being almost enough for me to buy. But, the 2014 update went backwards.

The iMac has been an absolute no for me since learning the hard way with the G5's (throwing 3 entire computers away over a single bad part on each). Not interested in all-in-ones from Apple. I learned how big a fight it is to get them to honor the warranty on them. And any single part essentially kills the usefulness of the entire system, screen and all.

The new Mac Pro was clearly a dead end.

The trend towards unrepairable Macs, and lower performance systems, etc. I just can't justify the investment.

So, I gave my 1,1 some updates. It'll last me some years to come. Performance is acceptable.

If the 2014 mini had quad cores, got near or better than 3 GHz, could address more memory, provided user replaceable memory, hard drive, and an actual GPU, I'd have been very tempted.

The 2012 was more tempting than the 2014. Watching the downgrade made it more difficult to invest in the mini.

I don't feel like I have to buy a Mac Pro specifically. But user serviceable machines are a must for me. If something breaks next year, I don't want to have to replace the entire system.

 

[phairphan]

Normally, the answer would be common sense but we are talking about the 3 innovating amigos

It's the 4 innovating amigos, isn't it? Cue the Cook, the Schiller is here and Ive gotta go.

 

[rjtiedeman]

I like the trash can Mac Pro. I just can't justify the cost.

 

[JimGoshorn]

It's the 4 innovating amigos, isn't it? Cue the Cook, the Schiller is here and Ive gotta go.

Yeah, I forgot Cue. The other 3 parade around their innovations more. My bad forgetting about the software innovations(?)

 

[singhs.apps]

because of what they do with no artificial or unnecessary ornamentation etc

I am sorry but the nMP is an artificial and unnecessary ornamentation.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

I think instead of a separate version of OSX, it should just have a "pro" mode that enables extra options that most people don't need.

It's called Terminal.

 

[Daniel Reed]

The reason I do not want to leave the Apple platform is the same reason almost everyone else does: OS X.

OS X is over.

macOS is in a transitional/porting-phase of the former OS X environment to run on Apple AxxX chip variants.

Every slip of tongue I've heard in the bay area tech community is the Mac Pro as we know it is dead.

The Cook's attempt to create a cohesive has only torn it apart and led to stagnating innovation.

Several key senior level staff have resigned and left Apple recently - many going to Tesla.

The 2017 (i)Mac may be the best/last Intel-based Mac desktop.
[doublepost=1484200033][/doublepost]

I am sorry but the nMP is an artificial and unnecessary ornamentation.

The trash can gets a lot of hard knocks, and Apple just plain sucks at marketing.

The nMP internals have been updated since it was released, yet they don't update their own advertisement data, and they still use the same crap thermal paste that leads to overheating issues.

The nMP w/ D700s, updated internals, 50% faster SSD, and the 12-core E5 2697 v2, is a beast if you take it apart, remove the crap thermal compound, and replace it with Arctic Silver.

The fact is the Xeons haven't improved much in the last 3 years for workstation needs.

It would be great if Apple offered nMP owners an option to upgrade video cards to Vega.
But that will never happen, even though companies like RED digital cinema have proven time and time again there is a HUGE market for those interested in upgrading, oh, and the PC market proves that too

 

[Amigalander]

I crave a Mac like you've described. I'm still hanging on to my 2008 Mac Pro unofficially running Sierra, but it's getting a bit sluggish. Have I considered abandoning the Mac? Somewhat, altho the Mac is still my favorite for now. I certainly don't recommend the Mac as a new computer to friends or relatives with the same fervor I used to a few years ago.

I think this image approximates my feelings towards computer platforms:

I'm not about to switch to an Amiga, but my loyalty to the Mac (to Apple) has certainly waned since the reins left Steve's hands. I've considered possibly going the Hackintosh route, but I don't really want to dedicate all my energy towards "Hacking" and would rather relax and enjoy my computer like I used to in the Mac's heyday.

 

[pat500000]

6,1 is excellent for apps like fcpx...so even if mac pro 2013 is unpopular...it's a good machine for something like that. Otherwise, welcome to oblivion.

 

[kartcrg]

Well it goes without saying, but we're all in the same boat.

My business is fully vested in OS X.. we're running the most powerful hardware they make (for CAD design workflows) and if the gap to HP Z & Dell T workstations gets much bigger, I'll miserably be forced over to Windows.

The uncertainty is certainly no fun.

 

[shaunp]

how about an actual HP-Z which is running a special copy of macOS in a supported environment ?
would that not do the trick for you?

If Apple can't/won't upgrade the nMP with a tower model, then supporting the existing best of breed workstations (HP Z, Dell Precision, Lenovo Pxxx) could work. It's a small subset of the available PC hardware so they wouldn't have to support millions of devices. I'd be very interested in one of these if they were available.

 

[Since1987]

oh.. something like macOS and macOS+ (or whatever)?

but, a forked osx is a fresh idea to me.. it's interesting to think about.

I think OSX is already "forked" ( rim shot ).

We need a new NeXT. Forstall + Investor $$$ = eating Apple's lunch... computer wise. Apple wouldn't even put up a fight. Cook and Ive want OUT of the truck business. Pro Users don't want Windows.

 

[AidenShaw]

I think OSX is already "forked" ( rim shot ).

Even better when you say it with a Boston accent that has a very soft "r".

Pro Users don't want Windows.

Apple fans don't want Windows. Many true pros spend their time in application UIs that are virtually the same in Windows and Apple OSX. They don't care about the OS - they rarely see it.

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Apple has always had this little internal cult of the all-in-one headless. Cube, Mini, Trash Can Pro, ....

Hopefully they shove the cult back in the basement for another decade.

As far as forking, they had Mac OS X Server.

1x 5.25" external bay
1x 5.25/3.5" external bay
4x PCIe x16/X8 slots(2x double-width, 2x single-width) configurable as 16/16/4/4 or 16/8/8/4
Single-socket only (with upcoming Xeons, you can get an absurd number of cores on one socket)
4x 3.5/2.5" internal bays that have ability to swap to m.2 PCIe x4 3.0 slots by flipping over the sleds
8 RAM slots
1x 10GigE
1x 1GigE

Cleanly replaceable "feet" that can be swapped for 19" rack mount tabs. 5U rack spacing.

Flippable SATA/PCIe sleds aren't that nuts. Intel calls it HSIO Port Flexibility. It's been around since at least Skylake PCH.

 

[StrawberryX]

I don't really care anymore ...
Have a 32gig ram 1.1 with Snow Leopard and a 3.1 64gig ram, 680, SDD's, USB 3 El Capitan.
I'm ok with osX on the laptops, on mac pro Snow Leopard still feels a little more productive,
once I'm in Adobe I'm fine.
I guess HP will get my workstation money.
I like mac pro 6.1, but pricing is arrogant.
Most of the Mac line feels old, overpriced, incomplete, beta ...
add the forced upgrade, keep in the dark, troubles, pro ditching, solderglued direction to that
and windows is looking better than ever.
I will keep the macs, probably buy some sort of laptop now and then ...
if they start building computers again I would probably buy it.
Now the Mac thing just feels off ... it's insulting.
A new mac pro probably not happening or crazy expensive ...

 

[mastermamo]

There will never again be legends like the Mac Pro 4.1 and 5.1. Unfortunately technology has to march ahead but Apple seems to be taking this to the extreme. Lets remember that 1st and foremost Apple is all about making money hence the flash memory chips and drives that can't be removed etc. So I do expect to see anther Mac Pro form factor (7.1) in the future but I am sure it will be an updated form of the 6.1. Apple hates admitting when they make a mistake. When they do make a mistake they take that mistake, polish it up nice and glossily, throw a huge marketing campaign at it and then release it as the next best thing since sliced bread. Case in point is Logic Pro X. The worst NLE ever made but still going strong with version 10.3. Its ridiculous. Another case in point iPhone 7. What an absolute useless "upgrade" from the 6. And at WDDC they cleverly concentrated on the iPhone 7+ with dual cameras, depth of field etc and as always the crowds went "Oooh Aaaah Apple we love u" lol. The 6,1 Macs were fast yes. They looked all glossy and polished yes. And then u realised once hooked up it had cables sticking out on the end with the leds on it. They didn't even bother putting an illuminated Apple logo on the end that the user sees. Its these simple "over-thoughts" as the public calls it that makes or breaks. Apple on the other hand silently defines this approach as "scrimping" i.e. they won spend a dime extra. Another case in point is the new OLED retina MBP. Yet again, no illuminated Apple logo to name just one "scrimp". Grrrrrrr. And they then have the audacity to bump prices so high the average person cannot even think of affording a Mac Pro or MBP. How absolutely arrogant.
Just for the fun of it lets put the cherry on top:
They remove compatibility of a 4.1 with Sierra. They have done this before on the 3.1 remember. WTF Apple. How dare u. So we hack and we mod and of course warranties fall like dominoes. Ugh..makes me nauseous

So all in all I doubt we will ever see another Mac Pro with upgradeability possibilities of the 4.1 and 5.1's. Apple will just not allow it. They want only their proprietary hardware to be used. I am happy with my Mac Pro 5.1's and would never think of changing them. Yes I bought a 6.1. Switched it on once to clone my main 5.1 drive and its sitting in its box since then as a backup machine. But as far as Im concerned it will sit there for a long long time because our trusty 5.1's, if taken care of properly, will last a lifetime.
Remember guys : Steve Jobs is gone. Tim Cook lives in a world made of rainbow colored spinning circles and is a moron as far as I am concerned. Jony Ive is the only one alive that could make a difference if he were allowed to.
The kind is dead.
Long live....ummm... his legacy

 

[macprobuffalo]

We should all be sending our requests to Apple. If enough of us demand a real workstation maybe it will happen. After submitting feedback the next page claims it goes to the Mac Pro team.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac-pro.html

Personally I've been considering one of the 12 core 5,1's on eBay to replace my 3,1. I'm just concerned that macOS 10.13 will not support them

 

[flyinmac]

We should all be sending our requests to Apple. If enough of us demand a real workstation maybe it will happen. After submitting feedback the next page claims it goes to the Mac Pro team.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/mac-pro.html

Personally I've been considering one of the 12 core 5,1's on eBay to replace my 3,1. I'm just concerned that macOS 10.13 will not support them

The page may say that. But remember that Apple pulls people from all departments when they need help somewhere else.

They've pulled from MacOS departments to help get iOS revisions out the door.

Mac departments have been pulled from to get iPhones done.

Etc. etc.

So for all we know, the notice just went to a guy who's working on a watch band.

We don't know if there is still a Mac Pro team.

 

[JamesPDX]

I've been rereading these posts, and they're all still quite relevant. You guys are helping me out a lot. Any here running Pro Tools 12 (non-HD)?
[doublepost=1487408356][/doublepost][QUOTE="

The nMP internals have been updated since it was released, yet they don't update their own advertisement data, and they still use the same crap thermal paste that leads to overheating issues.

The nMP w/ D700s, updated internals, 50% faster SSD, and the 12-core E5 2697 v2, is a beast if you take it apart, remove the crap thermal compound, and replace it with Arctic Silver.
[/QUOTE]

Hi, do you know of any refurb-sellers that are doing this thermal mod? Or I wonder if Apple "got it together" past certain serial numbers?

 

[Synchro3]

O my God, I just realized that a Hackintosh with i7-7700K (32 GB RAM) (~$2000) has only 27% less multi core performance than the biggest 12 core Mac Pro 6,1 (~$8600), and only 13% less multi core performance than 8 core Mac Pro 6,1 (~$7100). And of course far better single core performance than both Mac Pro 6,1.

i7-7700K: https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/1899217
All Macs: https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

 

[mpta]

O my God, I just realized that a Hackintosh with i7-7700K (32 GB RAM) (~$2000) has only 27% less multi core performance than the biggest 12 core Mac Pro 6,1 (~$8600), and only 13% less multi core performance than 8 core Mac Pro 6,1 (~$7100). And of course far better single core performance than both Mac Pro 6,1.

i7-7700K: https://browser.primatelabs.com/v4/cpu/1899217
All Macs: https://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

Depends,
i7 7700K Cinebench rendering score is 800-900 CPU score with hackintish for 2000 $.
With my old mac pro 12 core (5.1 is let's say for 1500$) I have 1300 CPU score so ~50% faster. Ofcourse we are talkin here about multicore rendering.

 

[Synchro3]

Depends,
i7 7700K Cinebench rendering score is 800-900 CPU score with hackintish for 2000 $.
With my old mac pro 12 core (5.1 is let's say for 1500$) I have 1300 CPU score so ~50% faster. Ofcourse we are talkin here about multicore rendering.

To be exact Cinebench score of i7-7700K is around 970: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/amd-zen.1988652/page-35#post-24321658

I've just collated some Cinebench benchmarks, for comparison:

Cinebench Mac Pro 6,1, 4 Core: 660
Cinebench Mac Pro 6,1, 6 Core: 955
Cinebench Mac Pro 6,1, 8 Core: 1227
Cinebench Mac Pro 6,1, 12 Core: 1533

Cinebench Mac Pro 5,1, 6 Core: 822
Cinebench Mac Pro 5,1, 8 Core: 959
Cinebench Mac Pro 5,1, 12 Core: 1306

 

[JamesPDX]

Here's a fun heat transfer problem for you engineers: What would be your case design and CPU/GPU heat sink and fan design (material and surface area and shape, no limits) to get a single non-overclocked Xeon E4-based machine to run as quietly as a 2012 i7 Mac Mini with an SSD?

 

[Roykor]

Well it goes without saying, but we're all in the same boat.

My business is fully vested in OS X.. we're running the most powerful hardware they make (for CAD design workflows) and if the gap to HP Z & Dell T workstations gets much bigger, I'll miserably be forced over to Windows.

The uncertainty is certainly no fun.

I have switched months ago, and its pretty okey to be honest. I was afraid. But it gets the job done. Its different, but in the end, its a tool. I still prefer OSX, but have lost faith in Apple and how they handle this with their radio silence. ps, my new beast only cost me 2600 euro, and outperforms almost any mac you throw at him with two fingers in his nose.

I feel sorry for those who are locked-in.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

Apple has always had this little internal cult of the all-in-one headless. Cube, Mini, Trash Can Pro, ....

Hopefully they shove the cult back in the basement for another decade.

As far as forking, they had Mac OS X Server.

1x 5.25" external bay
1x 5.25/3.5" external bay
4x PCIe x16/X8 slots(2x double-width, 2x single-width) configurable as 16/16/4/4 or 16/8/8/4
Single-socket only (with upcoming Xeons, you can get an absurd number of cores on one socket)
4x 3.5/2.5" internal bays that have ability to swap to m.2 PCIe x4 3.0 slots by flipping over the sleds
8 RAM slots
1x 10GigE
1x 1GigE

Cleanly replaceable "feet" that can be swapped for 19" rack mount tabs. 5U rack spacing.

Flippable SATA/PCIe sleds aren't that nuts. Intel calls it HSIO Port Flexibility. It's been around since at least Skylake PCH.

The server market is moveing to VM's mainly ESXI, Linux libvirt/qemu, or hyper v.

also you don't want pci-e storage stacked off of the PCH that also is tied to nic cards as that X4 pci link to cpu will become over loaded fast.

Mac OS X Server for VM is needed that can run on any base hardware in a VM. It works just need to change the EULA to make it legal.