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Spock

macrumors 68040
Jan 6, 2002
3,527
7,578
Vulcan
AppleTV Mk6 is expected to come with 64 or 128Gb SSD and the A12X SoC (4-6Gb RAM). Probably not really the ideal box to be running macOS on.
If MacOS is optimized properly for the hardware, I’m sure it would run fine. I doubt that it would be a workhorse but it could do some basic tasks, like a MacOS Raspberry Pi.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
If the ARM mini has solid thermals, a strong gpu (No need for an egpu), and fixed Bluetooth and WiFi, I am in.

I would like a Mini, but these four things prevent me from jumping on.

I would assume that the A12z GPU, if it matches the iPad Pro 2020, will have graphics comparable to top end MacBook Pro Iris Graphics. This would represent a real terms improvement on the HD630 graphics in 2018 Mac mini.

And we could have even better A14x graphics to look forward to on a consumer launch product.
 

kazmac

macrumors G4
Mar 24, 2010
10,103
8,658
Any place but here or there....
I would assume that the A12z GPU, if it matches the iPad Pro 2020, will have graphics comparable to top end MacBook Pro Iris Graphics. This would represent a real terms improvement on the HD630 graphics in 2018 Mac mini.

And we could have even better A14x graphics to look forward to on a consumer launch product.

Thanks for answering, but I hope they will be more powerful and Apple improves the thermals.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
Thanks for answering, but I hope they will be more powerful and Apple improves the thermals.

Thermals should go without saying but there was a calculation based on a chart in an Anandtech review - referenced in a Linus Tech Tips video, posits that each high performance core in an A12z will pull approx 4-4.3w sustained based on power draw. 4 of those would be roughly 16w - which would fit into a MBA style enclosure if you pre-suppose the low power cores will be called into action to reduce the heat output when the workload drops back (or is throttled).

If you assume that the existing Mac mini case can dissipate 65w then, let's for the sake of pure argument, say that a Mini could easily handle a A14 desktop class CPU with 12 high performance cores (and 4 low performance cores) as per recent rumours.

The only downside would be the likely relative lack of single threaded performance that affects any ARM CPU at the moment.

Based on these numbers, why wouldn't we see 4+4 CPU cores for MBA, 6+4 for 13" MBP replacement, and 12+4 for 16" replacement. And the 12+4 would go into the Mac mini.

If there's to be a 12" MacBook replacement they could put a straight up A14 from the iPhone 12 in that - 2+4 cores.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,178
1,544
Denmark
The only downside would be the likely relative lack of single threaded performance that affects any ARM CPU at the moment.

It's the other way around. Single threaded performance is great. What is lacking is multi-threaded performance due to a lack of cores.
 

sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
1,680
It's the other way around. Single threaded performance is great. What is lacking is multi-threaded performance due to a lack of cores.

the reference material I was looking at was an Anandtech article about Amazon Graviton 2 - an ARM server CPU. That page full of benchmarks suggests it’s close to AMD Epyc but lagging Xeon platinum.

It’s difficult to compare RISC with CISC which is why there’s so many different benchmarks on the page But my reading is that instructions per clock still lags the big boys in high performance scenarios.

intel have very few bragging rights left over AMD but they do have the single thread performance crown - just - for domestic workflows such as games and only on the highest end CPUs.

4000 series AMD zen CPUs may put that under severe pressure next year.

But Apple with their ARM CPUs have performance per watt considerations on their side plus pricing advantage for using their own designs and savings for going direct to TSMC for manufacture.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,178
1,544
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the reference material I was looking at was an Anandtech article about Amazon Graviton 2 - an ARM server CPU. That page full of benchmarks suggests it’s close to AMD Epyc but lagging Xeon platinum.

Wouldn't it make more sense to look at the current A-series from Apple instead of an unrelated implementation of AArch64 suited for server farms?

spec2006-a13.png
 
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sublunar

macrumors 68020
Jun 23, 2007
2,311
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Wouldn't it make more sense to look at the current A-series from Apple instead of an unrelated implementation of AArch64 suited for server farms?

spec2006-a13.png

I guess we'll soon see with real world examples soon. I'm especially interested to see how exporting from FCPX works out on ARM.

Until then everything's kind of artificial. There's only so much in the way of exporting benchmarks from LumaFusion on iPad Pros that you can try and find before you have to compare with real world FCPX export.

Apple must be very confident of good results if they expect a full transition to occur rather than keeping something like a Mac Pro hanging around for professionals who don't want to be upset yet again with more high end disruption.
 

matrix07

macrumors G3
Jun 24, 2010
8,226
4,895
Would love to have new Mac mini in this form factor for my next media center machine (Plex etc.).

 

Erehy Dobon

Suspended
Feb 16, 2018
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I may eventually replace my Mac mini 2018 with an Apple Silicon Mac mini but it certainly won't be the first-generation model.

My guess is that Apple will initially stick their custom silicon into the existing Mac mini chassis (like the current Developer's Transition Kit). At some point, they will release an Apple Silicon Mac mini designed specifically for the new hardware. Then they will refresh the new design with better internals. It's the latter (3rd gen) unit that I would ideally purchase.

The problem is that Apple's mini release pattern has been very sporadic. I can't wait 8-10 years for three iterations. I will likely buy whatever Apple offers in 2022 or 2023. By then the operating system will hopefully have matured and many of the applications (both first and third party) should have caught up as well.

But there's no way I'd touch a first-generation Apple Silicon Mac mini even though I suspect they've been running prototype units in their labs since 2010.
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,024
2,616
Los Angeles, CA
Forgetting about the developer transition kit for a second, the Mini is a small and often overlooked part of Apple's line up, but one that is much loved by all who own it. What are your hopes for a new Apple Silicon based Mac mini?

I think Apple's move to their own SoC presents a fantastic future for the mini if they choose to continue with the product. I think they may go quite wacky with it in terms of the sizing and possibly the power and graphics available due to the reduced size and heat constraints the switch brings.

For me, and I know this almost certainly won't happen, but I'd love to see the mini split into Mac mini and Mac mini Pro lines.

Mac mini:

  • A really small design, not considerably larger than a Raspberry Pi
  • Standard consumer level AXX chip
  • Passively cooled, entirely silent
  • 2 x USB 4 ports
  • 2 x USB 3 type A ports
  • 1 x HDMI port
  • WIFI 6, I could see Apple dropping ethernet though, adapters are very cheap and I'd wager lot's of users use WIFI, might be quite controversial which Apple seems to love lately.
  • Powered through one of the USB 4 ports, iPad style "charger" sufficient to power the unit
I'd love to see this back in the $499 range, which should be doable even with their usual markup. The Core i3 in the current mini currently retails at $133, bear in mind this is 2 years after it launched. Apple will receive a discount for bulk however the CPU alone is not the only outgoing cost to a third party.

Mac mini Pro:

  • A larger design, but not considerably larger than the current Intel mini, if at all
  • Faster SoC, we don't know what the silicon strategy will look like at this stage but something really speedy would be nice, same SoC from the high end ARM iMacs as an option?
  • Actively cooled, but very quiet
  • Up to 128GB RAM/4TB SSD (ECC memory option? very unlikely)
  • 2 extra USB 4 ports, ethernet standard and with a 10Gb ethernet option available
  • Traditional power cord, but no power brick, built in to the unit
I'd like to see this in the $999-$1499 range depending on options. User replaceable RAM/SSD would be amazing to see, but very unlikely I'm sure.

So these are my wishes, I think in reality we'll probably just end up with something similar to the basic Mini I've described. Apple have always been very hesitant to release anything that eats into the iMac line, people have been pining for the xMac on here for at least 15 years and Apple have always resisted. With that said if Apple do release the basic Mac mini similar to what I've described, I'm sure it will be a great seller and I'll certainly take one.

What do you think the new Mac mini will be like?

I'm not a Mac mini user, but I am excited for Mac mini users!

I don't think they'll drop Ethernet, especially after making a big deal about putting 10GbE into them as an option. They believe that their notebooks don't need wires. They do not necessarily think that for the desktop. Design-wise, I wouldn't be shocked to see an Apple TV (fourth gen or 4K) sized form factor or something closer to that size, especially if they can fit the same number of ports on it (might be tricky, but they could likely do it).

As far as form factor, the million dollar question seems to be whether or not they're going to miniaturize as much as they can while still pulverizing the Intel equivalents or whether they're going to build out to the current form factors to see how much crazier the performance boosts will be. For all we know, it may be a middle ground between the two and/or some products may see one approach, while others use another (MacBook Pros might see a design as thinner as can be safely done while still keeping their newly fixed keyboards exactly what they now are, while the desktops may maintain their current form factor to see how much more power we get from them; who knows at this point???).
 

Kostask

macrumors regular
Jul 4, 2020
230
104
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
The numbers for the A13 and A11 are interesting (but why no A12?), but the A14 is going to be built on the 5nm process. The A13 is built on a 7nm process (a very well optimized process, but 7nm none the less). There should be about a 20% power efficiency improvement for the 5nm vs. 7nm process. That may be given back by running the laptop/desktop A14 at a higher clock speed, which will only be seen once the ARM Macs are released. Suffice it to say, 6 and 8 "Big" core ARM SOCs will be sitting below the Intel equivalemt parts in terms of power consumption. I think Apple will be trying to make an impact with the first ARM Macs, so you may end up seeing higher core counts than may be reasonably expected.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,178
1,544
Denmark
My guess is that Apple will initially stick their custom silicon into the existing Mac mini chassis (like the current Developer's Transition Kit). At some point, they will release an Apple Silicon Mac mini designed specifically for the new hardware. Then they will refresh the new design with better internals. It's the latter (3rd gen) unit that I would ideally purchase.

You can bet your ass they will make sure every Arm Mac will look different than their Intel counterpart. It's wasted brand and marketing recognition if not. The design language is Apple's "Intel Inside" sticker.

They have been working on the transition for years and years.
 

Pressure

macrumors 603
May 30, 2006
5,178
1,544
Denmark
Isn't this showing that the Core 9900K and Ryzen 3900X are both about 15% faster than the A13? Not sure if this is single core or multi-core though.

It shows that the A13 matches the Core 9900K and Ryzen 3900X in integer performance but trails both by 15% in floating point performance.

What is interesting is that the A13 only uses around 5 Watt to reach that performance level.
 

Erehy Dobon

Suspended
Feb 16, 2018
2,161
2,017
No service
I am interested in it as an Apple 4K TV replacement.
Too expensive as an HTPC or game console. Apple set course on a different direction.

Apple killed Front Row and removed the IR receiver from the Mac mini 2018. Unlike the Mac mini 2010, the 2018 version did not include an IR remote.

Personally, I think the traditional model of PC-TV convergence is dead. This was the buzzword in 1999 when TiVo made a splash. 20+ years later, it never got a foothold and the world changed.

Now home theater exists with a $50 Roku Streaming Stick+. Or if you want more features and control, a $99 Raspberry Pi kit running Kodi. Even AirPlay has made it to some smart TVs.
 
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