iPad Why can’t people use iPad as iPad and Computer as computer

[s2mikey]

Thank you - good and interesting response. I also wanted to note that Tim Cook seems to have popped up with a new vision overnight. He's quoted in the article linked below as saying that Apple isn't considering merging iOS and MacOS because it would lead to "compromises."

To me (and this is possibly very personal - perhaps no one else feels the same way?) the thing that makes iOS on any mobile hardware platform from a 12.9" iPad Pro to an iPod Touch is the lack of mouse support. The Apple Pencil is getting closer but it's still not there in terms of how I want to use a pointing accessory. To your point about MS and the Windows world, my wife and my 30 year old son both have a Surface Pro and essentially never use the touchscreen to interact with the machine.

Here's Cook's quote:

"We don't believe in sort of watering down one for the other," said Cook, speaking with The Sydney Morning Herald's Peter Wells. "One of the reasons that both of them are incredible is because we pushed them to do what they do well. And if you begin to merge the two … you begin to make trade offs and compromises."​

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/04/19/tim-cook-still-opposed-to-merging-mac-ipad/

I honestly agree with Tim here. I can see why people would want mouse support for their iPad but IMO I much prefer the iOS experience to be different than Mac OS. I love that Apple keeps them separate. It allows each to excel at there respective tasks versus having to make compromises as Tim mentioned. I say keep them separate and let them "master" their craft per se.

 

[bensisko]

Windows has been doing tablets for so long that they work great even without a keyboard.

If they work for you without a keyboard, great but to me Windows useability without a keyboard took a major nose dive with Windows 10. For all of the issues Windows 8 had, it was much better as a touch device (understanding that it was terrible to use with a mouse/keyboard).

I really wish MS would overhaul the UI for “tablet mode” and make it touch friendly again.
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At least the Surface Pro is thin and light... and you can remove the keyboard to make it into something that resembles an actual tablet.

On the other hand... the foldable 2-in-1 devices are kinda silly in my opinion. I still get a chuckle out of their "laptop and tablet in one!" claims.

That's great... except this thing they're calling a "tablet" has a 13" screen, is rather thick, and is about 3 pounds. It's not exactly something you want to curl up on the couch and read with.

Personally... I'd stick to a traditional laptop... and also get an iPad. Yeah it's two devices... but at least they're both ideal at what they're supposed to be.

Agreed. Foldable are a non-starter for me.

 

[Nugget]

The only reason why there is continued debate is because for some reason, people interpret "an iPad can replace a PC" as "an iPad can replace a PC in all instances for all possible use cases".

I think the context is a bit broader than just that, which is why this otherwise benign subject always seems to bring out such heated emotions. From the perspective of a person whose tasks cannot be done on an iPad (and almost certainly will never be suitable for a tablet device) there is also the larger observation that Apple's family of computers are either languishing in neglect (see Mac Mini, Mac Pro, MacBook Air) or being evolved in some distressing directions (unpopular low-travel keyboard, ridiculous touch bar instead of function keys). Plus the renowned stability, security, and hassle-free macOS environment has lately failed to deliver as we've enjoyed in the past.

Even if we ignore the existence of iPads and iOS devices entirely, the outlook for a macOS user who is invested in their workflow and familiarity with the macOS platform is unsteady at best right now. There's a lot of legitimate reason to be concerned about the long-term viability of Apple computers and macOS specifically. Apple appears to have very little motivation or focus to spend on their macOS products outside of an annual lip service statement from the executive team that "we have a lot of great products coming" that never really seems to materialize. Instead we get an ad campaign tagline of "What's a computer?"

That leaves people hyper-sensitive to any statement from Apple which reads as reinforcement of these observations. It's scary because it starts to look like Apple believes their own hype. If iOS isn't practical for you, then how much longer until the upgrade path from your MacBook Pro is going to involve Lenovo and a Windows license? A grim future to consider.

So it's not that people are willfully over-reading a single sentence, it's that the sentence is scary because it rhymes with all the non-verbal communication coming out of Apple these days. It's easy to be unnerved by that.

Will yelling at each other about it here on MacRumors help? Absolutely not. But some days it feels like it will, just to give voice to what often seems like an abandoned sentiment among some Apple customers.

Next time you read an impassioned post from someone here describing in detail how their work can't be done on an iPad, just add the unspoken TL;DR as you read it: "I really don't want to move to Windows or Linux and I am scared that's where things are headed."

 

[mrklaw]

I honestly agree with Tim here. I can see why people would want mouse support for their iPad but IMO I much prefer the iOS experience to be different than Mac OS. I love that Apple keeps them separate. It allows each to excel at there respective tasks versus having to make compromises as Tim mentioned. I say keep them separate and let them "master" their craft per se.

Why artificially force interaction to be different just because you want to differentiate your product line?

People using the Smart Keyboard are already less portable at that time - sitting down with it on their lap/table. A mouse would be the same. Your primary interaction is still touch, until you sit down to use a Remote Desktop app, or a word processor/spreadsheet where accuracy and speed is needed.

IMO it doesn’t dilute what iPad is any more than keyboard or pencil support would. And it would extend the ‘pro’ productivity part to a lot more people

 

[s2mikey]

Why artificially force interaction to be different just because you want to differentiate your product line?

People using the Smart Keyboard are already less portable at that time - sitting down with it on their lap/table. A mouse would be the same. Your primary interaction is still touch, until you sit down to use a Remote Desktop app, or a word processor/spreadsheet where accuracy and speed is needed.

IMO it doesn’t dilute what iPad is any more than keyboard or pencil support would. And it would extend the ‘pro’ productivity part to a lot more people

Well, yeah. Good points here. Perhaps supporting a mouse or other peripherals is fine but I still don’t want "one OS to rule them all" when it comes to Apple products. Windows PCs at this stage are pretty annoying where it feels like they are desperately trying to "force" everyone into one windows version on all devices. I just don’t care for it.

iOS needs to stay iOS, IMO. And let Mac OS do it’s thing.

 

[Shanghaichica]

Short answer - some of us want to make the iPad our sole device. For people like me, I just prefer the experience of using my iPad - the simplicity of iOS, the light weight and performance. So much so, that I would like to be able to ditch a normal PC. My 10.5 Pro is one of the most versatile mobile devices of its size and the promise of being able to rely on it as my main device is very seductive.

I’m getting there, with the help of you all!

I think people have individual needs and should do whatever suits them best. I have a MBA and an iPad Pro 10.5. Can’t even remember the last time I used my MBA but my iPad I use everyday day. An iPad is sufficient for me. I just like to keep a computer in the house for those rare occasions that I need to do something on there that I can’t do my iPad. My husband is more comfortable using a computer so it does get used.

 

[mrklaw]

Well, yeah. Good points here. Perhaps supporting a mouse or other peripherals is fine but I still don’t want "one OS to rule them all" when it comes to Apple products. Windows PCs at this stage are pretty annoying where it feels like they are desperately trying to "force" everyone into one windows version on all devices. I just don’t care for it.

iOS needs to stay iOS, IMO. And let Mac OS do it’s thing.

Agreed. Windows and surface is a great desktop OS but a pretty bad tablet OS. I’m not sure you could merge OSX and iOS, or need to

 

[newellj]

Well, yeah. Good points here. Perhaps supporting a mouse or other peripherals is fine but I still don’t want "one OS to rule them all" when it comes to Apple products. Windows PCs at this stage are pretty annoying where it feels like they are desperately trying to "force" everyone into one windows version on all devices. I just don’t care for it.

iOS needs to stay iOS, IMO. And let Mac OS do it’s thing.

Windows 8 - OMG, what a disaster. I like 10. 8 was trying to be a touch-centric desktop OS and (IMO) it didn't work -at all.-

 

[The Game 161]

I would say I don't need both but I like having my iPad and MacBook Pro separate. I use my iPad more on a daily basic but there are times when I want to use my MacBook Pro for other things. I find the experience typing is better on my MacBook Pro. That said for easier use for when you want to relax around then the iPad is better for my needs.

 

[OldEditor]

The iPad does so much in a compact package, even with a keyboard/cover attached, I think it's understandable some people wish it could fully replace their notebook computers.
Add in the fact that some people (probably most of us here) find the Apple operating systems so much more pleasant and useful when compared to Android, Windows, Chrome -- I think the "Why can't Apple just ..." almost naturally arises.
But, the fact is, for a lot of people, the iPad simply cannot be a full replacement, no matter how much they/we might wish it.
(And I am sort of/kind of in that camp. No deep reason: I just want to carry less stuff around, and lighter stuff at that!)
And, yes, some of Mr. Cook's comments have prompted and/or spurred the debate or discussion, but I personally find the "truck" analogy more on point. Personally, I still like my "truck" close by when -- or even just in case -- I need it, at least on weekdays.
That said, the tone of the debate still cracks me up. It so often elicits the equivalent of the playground "You're not the boss of me!" retort.
It also reminds me of the furor on some people's part over the "What's a computer?" girl.
In the end, they're just tools.
And Apple is just a company selling us stuff, not a messianic entity ushering humanity into a new age.
And I admire Apple greatly -- not just for its ability to envision, design and build -- but for its ability to separate us from our money.

 

[nStyle]

Forget the iPad being a PC replacement...it's not even a phone replacement for most people. Especially with the X, my phone does 90% of what an iPad will do and in most cases it's way faster. The screen is ample-sized for most tasks and apps on the iPad don't really offer a superior experience because most still don't even take advantage of the extra space (this really irks me). Yes, you can see more initially, but the designs are the exact same (Reddit, Spotify, etc...).

For the things I'd reach for an iPad over a phone (like maybe iMovie, Word, etc...), I'm better off just grabbing a laptop and getting the "full" experience. Literally the only thing the iPad does better than a laptop arguably is reading or watching a movie. Then again, a laptop is much more versatile in where it can stand since it's much more sturdy with adjustable angles.

Also, scrolling...scrolling is so much better on a track pad for anything other than brief sessions, especially if you use your iPad like a laptop (smart keyboard). It's also annoying that there's only one angle with the keyboard.

I fully understand that some people don't need a laptop at all and that's where the iPad definitely shines. It's lightweight, powerful, and otherwise a joy to use so I get it, don't get me wrong. There is just no denying that an iPad is a luxury device.

 

[Greenmeenie]

That's always been Apple's line (the "gorilla arms" syndrome) - and I agree to a point - but its a separate issue from the relative priorities of Mac and iOS development. Also, it suggests Apple isn't thinking beyond the "slap a touch screen on a Macbook" idea of a "hybrid".

The MS Surface, Surface Book and Surface studio are interesting ideas - the Surface seems to have shown a measure of success, the other two are a bit hard to judge because the Studio is eye-wateringly expensive for what you get power-wise and the Surface book has been beset with technical problems (I had a Surface book for a month, and liked it until it got to the point that you couldn't detach the tablet without the system locking up...). If anybody could persuade their developers to produce "dual identity" Apps with seamless switching desktop and tablet mode interfaces , its Apple.

Last I looked, schools (for example) were showing a lot of interest in Chromebooks rather than iPads (may have been what prompted the latest education event).



Except Tim Cook's words in 2015 were: "I think if you're looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?" ...he went on to elaborate a bit, but those were the headline words that really sparked this debate.



I think its a no-brainer that people who rely on Wacom tablets for their day-to-day work are going to be at the front of the queue when it comes to switching to iPad+Pencil. (ISTR someone else in this thread mentioned music notation?) However, there are others for whom the idea of a tablet (with a $100 stylus) is equally impractical.

Like text editing. I often browse MacRumors on my iPad, but if I want to post something I switch to the Mac, because otherwise trying to compose anything longer than a tweet risks shouted profanities and a ballistic iPad... and when I put my iPad in a keyboard case I found that it destroyed the portability and ease of hand-held use.

I may be in the minority, but i really enjoy typing on the ipad’s screen. I type using my thumbs while holding it or my fingers when its on the table in a minimal cover. I prefer typing on the screen than using a keyboard now.

 

[DoubleFlyaway]

I may be in the minority, but i really enjoy typing on the ipad’s screen. I type using my thumbs while holding it or my fingers when its on the table in a minimal cover. I prefer typing on the screen than using a keyboard now.

I'm way into iPads, but I hate on screen typing (love ASK)... I wonder if the difference is whether you are good at traditional typing. I'm a really fast typist, and thumbs are just never going to cut it. Frustratingly slow and error prone for me.

 

[spiderman0616]

I'm way into iPads, but I hate on screen typing (love ASK)... I wonder if the difference is whether you are good at traditional typing. I'm a really fast typist, and thumbs are just never going to cut it. Frustratingly slow and error prone for me.

I suck at thumb typing even on an iPhone.

 

[DoubleFlyaway]

I suck at thumb typing even on an iPhone.

Same.

 

[partsofspeech]

There are things that both can be done. But there are also things PC can do things better and more efficient

To me, these are file management and backup.

and there are other things iPad can do things better and more efficient.

To me, these are many: note-making, hand-writing, quick iMovie production, midi playing, AnyTune, pdf reading, ... Just to name a few.

iPad Pro with Keyboard and Pencil does not replace computer but creates a new paradigm of doing things. Unfortunately, Apple executives see it as a potential laptop replacement instead of a totally new productivity tool by itself.

To make iPad Pro even more productive, Apple should
- give the iPad Pro a mouse, which would be great for text copy and paste
- solve the bugs with the keyboard
- have a face-id and get rid of the bezel
- increase the resolution of the pencil

 

[strawberryshortcake]

I honestly agree with Tim here. I can see why people would want mouse support for their iPad but IMO I much prefer the iOS experience to be different than Mac OS. I love that Apple keeps them separate. It allows each to excel at there respective tasks versus having to make compromises as Tim mentioned. I say keep them separate and let them "master" their craft per se.

Tim Cook and everyone at Apple simply wants more Apple products sold. The more sales the better right?


Estimate prices ... or insert whatever dollar amount the products cost.
Ipad $500 to $1000 dollars
iMac/Macbook/Air $1000 to $1500
iPhone $600 to $1000

We'll just say a total of around $3000 dollars for all three Apple product. Triple threat. Imagine a brand spanking new $999 iPad that has mouse support, video editing, ability to code, write programs, massive flash storage, has OSX and iOS combined features, the capability to do exactly what an iMac/Macbook does and also has the ability to make/receive phone calls, text message, etc. and whatever an iPhone is capable of doing.

The hypothetical $999 iPad triple threat product could decrease the total revenue each year for Apple. Why sell you one thing, when I can sell you three.

Agreed. Windows and surface is a great desktop OS but a pretty bad tablet OS. I’m not sure you could merge OSX and iOS, or need to

So what's the deal with people bagging on the Surface being a "bad tablet"? What's wrong with it? To me, tablet is a touchscreen device. Does the Surface have touchscreen problems?

I may be in the minority, but i really enjoy typing on the ipad’s screen. I type using my thumbs while holding it or my fingers when its on the table in a minimal cover. I prefer typing on the screen than using a keyboard now.

How many words per minute can you finger type? If I needed to write a paper or whatever, I would stay completely away from the ipad's touchscreen keyboard. A standard keyboard is still world's better than the on-screen keyboard.

 

[mrklaw]

So what's the deal with people bagging on the Surface being a "bad tablet"? What's wrong with it? To me, tablet is a touchscreen device. Does the Surface have touchscreen problems?

The touchscreen is completely functional. The pen is excellent. The issue is with windows, not specifically Surface - its just that Surface is MS' own implementation of a 2-in-1 and doesn't even come with a keyboard as standard, so they're almost selling it as a tablet first.

If you get the right environment - an app optimised for touch, maybe using the pen etc - then touch on surface (or windows generally) is absolutely fine. But you're only ever a whisker away from the general windows environment which simply isn't optimised properly for touch. Its a lot better than it used to be, but still can get quite clunky. Eg small touch targets because it is assuming you're using a mouse; inability to get the onscreen keyboard to appear even though you have no physical keyboard attached. The kinds of things that ios got right first because it was touch-first.

tbh the whole experience is a function of Surface/windows not being great with touch, and ios being *so* good - both together paints windows in an even worse light.

 

[Mahasamatman]

So what's the deal with people bagging on the Surface being a "bad tablet"? What's wrong with it? To me, tablet is a touchscreen device. Does the Surface have touchscreen problems?

It's all about the OS, IMHO. Windows has always been a desktop/laptop OS with roots in mouse and keyboard access, as has OS X. iOS is an OS built from the ground up to be interacted with by touch. The philosophy of both approaches is very different and regardless of how good is the hardware, it's the software we interact with. If, for example, you were to put OS X on a tablet, I suspect a lot of the concerns/criticisms people level at Windows 10 would equally well apply.

Where MS went wrong, IMHO, is trying to converge on one OS which supported both desktop use and mobile, while Apple has kept them very much distinct offerings with different usage and characteristics. Going against the flow here but I really liked Windows mobile 8 and could have seen that extended to a larger format and still being quite successful. But for whatever reason, probably the guys that run Office, Microsoft chose not to take that path and converge with the result that Windows Mobile has died off completely and Windows 10 works well enough as a desktop OS but, again IMHO, is behind Windows 8 in usability as a touch-based OS.

 

[iDento]

Because anyone driving slower than me is a grandma, anyone driving faster than me is an idiot.

 

[Brammy]

When it comes to personal tasks -- writing and drawing for me -- I prefer the IPP. However, I can't go iPad only and I can't go macOS only either. There are key apps I need on each platform, and I think overall the document share sheet extensions on iOS are very powerful.

There are apps like Tableau, AutoCAD, and a version of Word that can edit styles and insert tables of contents that I need on macOS. Also, working all day on my day job's thin client would painful on iPOS without a mouse. I'm not going going to spend the money to get one of the fancy bluetooth mice that work with the VDI we use.

So, I straddle the lines. As much as I'd like "One OS to rule them all in the darkness bind them," that's not happening soon I think. Even if project marzipan goes both ways and makes it easier for MS to port a fully-functional Office suite to iOS, the slowness of devs adopting iOS Files app support shows this will be a long game.

 

[mrklaw]

I find 90% of my stuff is happily done on ipad. The other 10% is painful enough to force me to have a laptop or desktop.

If I could rent a VM somewhere, accessed through my ipad with keyboard/mouse I could probably ditch any 'proper' local processing

 

[wmadan]

Why artificially force interaction to be different just because you want to differentiate your product line?

People using the Smart Keyboard are already less portable at that time - sitting down with it on their lap/table. A mouse would be the same. Your primary interaction is still touch, until you sit down to use a Remote Desktop app, or a word processor/spreadsheet where accuracy and speed is needed.

IMO it doesn’t dilute what iPad is any more than keyboard or pencil support would. And it would extend the ‘pro’ productivity part to a lot more people

Adding mouse integration for iOS does not dilute the user experience any more than the Smart keyboard or Pencil does. And, Apple could design a pointing device for iOS that it could monetize, just like they did with keyboard and Pencil. They'd charge at least $129 for such a device, in your choice of colors, of course.

 

[mrklaw]

Adding mouse integration for iOS does not dilute the user experience any more than the Smart keyboard or Pencil does. And, Apple could design a pointing device for iOS that it could monetize, just like they did with keyboard and Pencil. They'd charge at least $129 for such a device, in your choice of colors, of course.

Imagine how expensive the new Smart Keyboard with Magic Trackpad could be.

 

[danny842003]

Can an iPad replace a laptop/pc for some people? Yes

Can it replace a laptop/pc for everyone? No

No idea why we need new threads about this every week.