Why do some continue using Microsoft Office on Mac?

[throAU]

1-People say iWork suite is not suitable for office/corporate. What does Apple use then to calculate their billions?!

Pretty much guarantee you that there is a lot of MS-Office used inside of Apple for the people doing things where it is appropriate.

Just like their execs drive cars and fly on aircraft that Apple do not make, they will be using software internally that Apple do not make. They're also using network hardware that Apple do not make, network storage they do not make, cloud services they do not make (probably both Azure and AWS), etc. as well.

Just like Microsoft does as well.


As above the big thing with 365 is the integration across 365 cloud apps (which are much more than just word/excel/powerpoint). If you don't make use of those things its less of a killer-app, but if you do, there's nothing that comes close at the moment.

And I say that as someone who genuinely has an axe to grind with microsoft, and I blame them for setting back computing by 10-15 years with DOS through Windows 95.

I mean the Amiga was full plug and play windowing GUI with pre-emptive multitasking (which the Mac didn't have either at the time) in 1986. It took Microsoft another 10 years before they got anywhere close.

 

[MBAir2010]

Libre office saved my files,and arse many times these past years, but now im content with pages, numbers and other icloud apps. Mojave did a great job syncing these than high sierra.

 

[honestone33]

Thanks for the information. Thankfully, my needs are not complex, but would really like to test the compatibility.

 

[adamjackson]

If I worked 100% on my own, I'd probably use BBEdit and a combination of iWork apps to get things done but our working environment for documents is 100% Office, Sharepoint, Teams based so I am familiar with office apps and therefore I use them. I also after years of managing my own email server for personal things, decided to pay the $4.99 to let Microsoft manage it for me so I have an Exchange account for my personal inbox, my property management job, my motorcycle club and my gobby-job. so I have 4 O365 accounts total all in my name and luckily, MS in Word when you're saving something, it let's you pick the appropriate OneDrive so you don't make the mistake of saving a file to the wrong biz-drive. And then I can share it to an MS Teams room or via email to a colleague and the Global Address List at my day job is huge (4500 people) so it all just integrates so nicely.

So I'm fully in Microsoft's services system when you include Four O365 accounts plus Azure services and Microsoft's GamePass Ultimate, I personally / professionally am paying MS $75 a month probably in services in addition to the $40 a month I'm paying Apple for their services. Neve really imagined I'd be giving MS so much of money but it just goes to show how well they navigated from the old way "seat / site licenses for office" to recurring service revenue. good for them and that's why their stock is up so much.

If I retired tomorrow, I'd probably use iWork + Outlook online so MS would still get some of my money.

 

[gavroche]

It depends on the specific functionality.

For example, conditionally formatting on today's Apple's Numbers app is FAR inferior to that of the Windows version of Microsoft Excel from five years ago.

How well do pivot tables work on Numbers? Yeah, I thought so.

Apple's iWork apps are "good enough" for maybe 75% of generic consumer usage for 75% of their usage cases. At a certain point, these iWork apps simply fall short.

Apple isn't trying to replace the full-blown Microsoft Office suite. They are trying to fill in the void between Microsoft Office and freeware solutions like LibreOffice.

Likewise Apple's iWork suite largely fulfills this goal in the same way that Photos, iMovie, GarageBand (a.k.a. "iLife") are a well-integrated suite of free multimedia tools.

Agree completely. Back when i was in school... i used to do some pretty complex stuff in Excel. Stuff i could never do in Numbers. Fortunatly i dont need to do any of that any more. But whats worse, i think, is that even using Numbers you cant do a lot of things you used to be able to do. They stripped out a lot of functionality when they were trying to make the mac and ios versions jive. It was very dissapointing to watch. I would probably do more still... i loved creating spreadsheets... if i didnt know how limited Numbers had become.

 

[Dimwhit]

Honestly, Microsoft Office is far superior to the Apple apps. I like them fine, but Office is just easier to deal with. And the Mac versions have come a long ways. As for price, if you look hard enough, you can find a family license for a pretty good price. I have a friend who works at Microsoft, so he gets me a family license for $25/year. Makes it a much easier decision for me.

 

[sracer]

Honestly, Microsoft Office is far superior to the Apple apps. I like them fine, but Office is just easier to deal with. And the Mac versions have come a long ways. As for price, if you look hard enough, you can find a family license for a pretty good price. I have a friend who works at Microsoft, so he gets me a family license for $25/year. Makes it a much easier decision for me.

Mac version of Office is easier to deal with?

The Mac version has 2 different menus that are not identical. There's the Mac-specific menu system and the app's menu/ribbon bar. Some menu options appear in one or the other... some appear in both.

 

[MacBH928]

Pretty much guarantee you that there is a lot of MS-Office used inside of Apple for the people doing things where it is appropriate.

Just like their execs drive cars and fly on aircraft that Apple do not make, they will be using software internally that Apple do not make. They're also using network hardware that Apple do not make, network storage they do not make, cloud services they do not make (probably both Azure and AWS), etc. as well.

Just like Microsoft does as well.


As above the big thing with 365 is the integration across 365 cloud apps (which are much more than just word/excel/powerpoint). If you don't make use of those things its less of a killer-app, but if you do, there's nothing that comes close at the moment.

And I say that as someone who genuinely has an axe to grind with microsoft, and I blame them for setting back computing by 10-15 years with DOS through Windows 95.

I mean the Amiga was full plug and play windowing GUI with pre-emptive multitasking (which the Mac didn't have either at the time) in 1986. It took Microsoft another 10 years before they got anywhere close.

If Apple themselves are using Office, who are they maintaining the Apple office apps for? I think they might pull the plug on them soon. It just doesn't make sense, either get serious about it or abandon it. Why let it float?

Libre office saved my files,and arse many times these past years, but now im content with pages, numbers and other icloud apps. Mojave did a great job syncing these than high sierra.

LibreOffice GUI is horrid, looks like a 70's word processor (I know GUI wasn't around back then). very primitive. Also feels heavy.

Mac version of Office is easier to deal with?

The Mac version has 2 different menus that are not identical. There's the Mac-specific menu system and the app's menu/ribbon bar. Some menu options appear in one or the other... some appear in both.


View attachment 1701363

You miss read, he said MS office is easier than Apple Office, which is also controversial since Apple dumbed down their apps to make it the "Easier" ones.

 

[BigMcGuire]

What upsets me is that earlier this year, June 2020 - I was able to open a 60MB word document for my work with Microsoft Office on my Mac. Yes, it's a 700+ page document. Anyway, over the last few months, Word for Mac just freezes and craps itself trying to open this same document now. Works fine to use it in the browser but I really like working on this thing locally (scrolling is easier). Minor complaint that is probably super specific to my use case, I know.

I prefer to use Word cuz I'm more familiar with it. Used it since I was a kid and I'm paying $99 for the family Office 365 so ... why not, right? I've been trying to use Numbers and Pages more just because if I ever want to cut the $99/year thing, I can.

I've tried LibreOffice - donated to it - I like the idea of open source software that, while maybe less user friendly, is free and accessible to anyone. But it does feel like an old word processor. Word just makes it so much easier dealing with images, tables, lists, links, outlines, etc.

I've shifted most of my personal spreadsheets (not complicated) to Numbers and ... it's actually quite good for what I need. Same for some personal word documents - switched to Pages - it handles them well (granted, super simple).


Word/Excel blows competition out of the water tho for business and anything complicated. Yes, I'm biased but...

I do wish Microsoft put a little more effort into standardizing Word/Excel on Mac OS.

 

[AZhappyjack]

You miss read, he said MS office is easier than Apple Office, which is also controversial since Apple dumbed down their apps to make it the "Easier" ones.

That's the rub, IMO. Apple wants to be a big player in software, but they are so afraid of making their office suite more complex, to the point that they have actually dumbed it down... simple is great for the casual user, but with the added and advanced features comes some level of complexity... they truly can't have it both ways...

 

[MacBH928]

What upsets me is that earlier this year, June 2020 - I was able to open a 60MB word document for my work with Microsoft Office on my Mac. Yes, it's a 700+ page document. Anyway, over the last few months, Word for Mac just freezes and craps itself trying to open this same document now. Works fine to use it in the browser but I really like working on this thing locally (scrolling is easier). Minor complaint that is probably super specific to my use case, I know.

I prefer to use Word cuz I'm more familiar with it. Used it since I was a kid and I'm paying $99 for the family Office 365 so ... why not, right? I've been trying to use Numbers and Pages more just because if I ever want to cut the $99/year thing, I can.

I've tried LibreOffice - donated to it - I like the idea of open source software that, while maybe less user friendly, is free and accessible to anyone. But it does feel like an old word processor. Word just makes it so much easier dealing with images, tables, lists, links, outlines, etc.

I've shifted most of my personal spreadsheets (not complicated) to Numbers and ... it's actually quite good for what I need. Same for some personal word documents - switched to Pages - it handles them well (granted, super simple).


Word/Excel blows competition out of the water tho for business and anything complicated. Yes, I'm biased but...

I do wish Microsoft put a little more effort into standardizing Word/Excel on Mac OS.

My only beef with MS Office is that I don't like one company to control everything and I don't like proprietary to be the standard which is the definition of a monopoly. This is why I have no problem with PDF or JPEG over .doc .

There are alternative to Word some how they still survive:-

• WordPerfect: This thing still exists, why I don't know but they are asking $250 for and I am not sure who still insist on it and who is buying it
• WPS Office: Chinese alternative. I didn't use it but looks very MS Office like, I wonder why it doesn't have more users
• OnlyOffie: Just heard of this. Open source MS-Office like software.
• Nisus: Very reasonably priced yet no real reason to use it specifically. Relic from older days

That's the rub, IMO. Apple wants to be a big player in software, but they are so afraid of making their office suite more complex, to the point that they have actually dumbed it down... simple is great for the casual user, but with the added and advanced features comes some level of complexity... they truly can't have it both ways...

Unfortunately...Apple does not walk that path. Apple's sole existence is to make software simple for the average user so I can't blame them for not making a complex enterprise software like Excel. This is most evident with stuff like iMovie vs Adobe Premier. My argument is that it doesn't hurt their bank account to attempt it, atleast via their Claris brand which still makes database software for businesses. Apple is looking to grow and looks to me there is a lot of area to grow in MS Office 90% dominated enterprise/education market.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Anyone else using Growly Notes? I love this company - the developer is responsive too. Yeah, I don't use it as my primary editor but I like the apps and the company.

Has a nice OneNote app too that reminds me of OneNote from the late 90s/early 2000s.

GrowlyBird Home

Free Macintosh software

www.growlybird.com

Sorry to derail... but like @MacBH928 - I don't like one company having everything as well.

I'll check Nisus and OnlyOffie - thanks!

 

[russell_314]

I use MS Office because I've used it for over twenty years for work and everything else so I know how to use it. I guess I could learn how to do the same things with Pages, Numbers, etc but there's something about teaching an old dog new tricks 😂

 

[mk313]

If Apple themselves are using Office, who are they maintaining the Apple office apps for? I think they might pull the plug on them soon. It just doesn't make sense, either get serious about it or abandon it. Why let it float?

Apple has no incentive to challenge Microsoft for the office software marketplace, but they do need to have a free way for people to use iPads, etc. That's why they offer the basic version iWork apps. The average consumer can do pretty much whatever they need to do in Numbers/Pages/Keynote, while those with more advanced needs can buy (or rent) Microsoft Office. If Apple started to really build out the iWork suite, they run the risk of MS pulling Office for Mac, which would be a big hole.

I don't see Apple investing serious resources in iWork to build up the capabilities, but I also don't see them abandoning it, as it has a place in the ecosystem.

 

[Joeronzk]

Has been a long-time Windows user and stick to Office. Though switched to Mac for years, Office is still my favorite. I can easily share documents with my colleagues running Windows machine.

 

[emac82]

My only beef with MS Office is that I don't like one company to control everything and I don't like proprietary to be the standard which is the definition of a monopoly. This is why I have no problem with PDF or JPEG over .doc .

There are alternative to Word some how they still survive:-

• WordPerfect: This thing still exists, why I don't know but they are asking $250 for and I am not sure who still insist on it and who is buying it

Oh wow I didn't realize that WP was still a thing...I really liked it back in the 90's on DOS lol...but I also didn't realize people still used it.

 

[adrianlondon]

Oh wow I didn't realize that WP was still a thing...I really liked it back in the 90's on DOS lol...but I also didn't realize people still used it.

Me neither. I have a floppy disk containing my University dissertation written in WordPerfect 5. Don't have WP. Don't have a floppy drive. Doubt it still even reads but who knows.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Oh wow I didn't realize that WP was still a thing...I really liked it back in the 90's on DOS lol...but I also didn't realize people still used it.

Same. I used Word Perfect 6.0 when I was a kid. My dad would let me type on that to keep me busy I assume. lol. Always liked that pen icon/picture when it was loading.

 

[IowaLynn]

Me neither. I have a floppy disk containing my University dissertation written in WordPerfect 5. Don't have WP. Don't have a floppy drive. Doubt it still even reads but who knows.

RAAYOO USB Floppy Disk Reader, 3.5 inch External Portable 1.44 MB FDD Floppy Disk Drive for Windows 11/10/8/7/2000/XP PC Laptop Desktop Notebook Computer

RAAYOO USB Floppy Disk Reader, 3.5 inch External Portable 1.44 MB FDD Floppy Disk Drive for Windows 11/10/8/7/2000/XP PC Laptop Desktop Notebook Computer

www.amazon.com

 

[ScholarsInk]

I've scrolled through most of the thread and I'm surprised to see relatively little mention of the dumbing-down of iWork a few years back. Pages used to be fantastic and full-featured. Not so, anymore, though I still use it often. It has to be used as a sketchpad or supplemental tool now, though; it is not consistent enough to be a standalone, which the previous version was.

 

[jonblatho]

All three of Apple’s apps are fine for most use cases and things that don’t leave macOS. Keynote’s arguably better than PowerPoint in that respect.

If you need the original files to leave macOS, they’re out of the question because Office export compatibility is awful.

 

[BeatCrazy]

If Apple themselves are using Office, who are they maintaining the Apple office apps for? I think they might pull the plug on them soon. It just doesn't make sense, either get serious about it or abandon it. Why let it float?

Apple employees do use the MS Office suite. And here's another tidbit - Google employees use iPhones as well

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

Like Apple, MS Office ecosystem kinda has you locked in for a host of reasons. Work place uses it so syncing and compatibility with sharing PPT, OneNote, Word, Excel to coworkers, customers, etc is smoother and easier. Plus MS Office has been doing this since forever so there also many professionals who are accustomed to MS Office user interfaces and layout.

But like other have said if you don't use office apps for professional reasons, whatever Apple offers, or other 3rd party is probably more than sufficient. Like Google docs. Hell even MS OFfice free online versions now are basic enough to fulfill most peoples needs.

 

[MacBH928]

Apple has no incentive to challenge Microsoft for the office software marketplace,

Why not? They are going out of their war to produce movies and build cars, some more reasonable to compete in Office software where 1 company is dominating 90% of the market especially when you have a product in the same field.

I use MS Office because I've used it for over twenty years for work and everything else so I know how to use it. I guess I could learn how to do the same things with Pages, Numbers, etc but there's something about teaching an old dog new tricks 😂

Does it still do the thing where if you click on something or insert an image the whole document formatting blows out of proportion?

Apple employees do use the MS Office suite. And here's another tidbit - Google employees use iPhones as well

This doesn't make sense, you build me software called numbers then go and use a competitor's product. I know Excel is more capable but makes more sense to make your own software more capable.

Like Apple, MS Office ecosystem kinda has you locked in for a host of reasons. Work place uses it so syncing and compatibility with sharing PPT, OneNote, Word, Excel to coworkers, customers, etc is smoother and easier. Plus MS Office has been doing this since forever so there also many professionals who are accustomed to MS Office user interfaces and layout.

But like other have said if you don't use office apps for professional reasons, whatever Apple offers, or other 3rd party is probably more than sufficient. Like Google docs. Hell even MS OFfice free online versions now are basic enough to fulfill most peoples needs.

Unless you are into publishing I never understood why people needed much more than the usual text formatting and image inserting which was available via software from early 80s I guess. When they say we need office for "Professional" work, I don't know what they mean but I know Excel can build mini programs to do specific tasks and thats all that I know.

 

[ssmed]

I've scrolled through most of the thread and I'm surprised to see relatively little mention of the dumbing-down of iWork a few years back. Pages used to be fantastic and full-featured. Not so, anymore, though I still use it often. It has to be used as a sketchpad or supplemental tool now, though; it is not consistent enough to be a standalone, which the previous version was.

I did mention it – it seems years ago now ;-)