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Why do we still purchase MacBook Pro 2017 models
- Thread starter Lastgreen
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But if the problem is just some dust they can fix it quickly at the AS, and they can't ask you $700.
If I broke the keyboard completely I know the cost is going to be high, but I think it is very unlikely to happen.
And if it turn out is going to be a problem for a lot of people they may fix it for free even after warranty is expired.
Dozens of 2016 owners beg to differ....
The keyboard design is flawed as it is. The only way to fix it, in the event of problems, is to swap entirely the top case with a 2017 one, which seems to be less prone to problems.
Read the keyboard horror stories on this very forum.
The keyboard design is flawed as it is. The only way to fix it, in the event of problems, is to swap entirely the top case with a 2017 one, which seems to be less prone to problems.
Read the keyboard horror stories on this very forum.
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Guys - there's going to be occasional issues. But my 2016 mpb maxed out (except HD, 1tb instead of 2tb) has worked flawlessly. Sure I've experienced my external monitor not connecting and unplug and replug seems to do the trick but overall it's be 10/10 experience. I'm a developer and really push my laptop to the limits. Compared to my previous HP laptop, previous dell laptop, and all the other plastic crap I've dealt with in the past, does anyone really want to go back to those? By all means, you can sell your mbp and go get a dell haha.
But seriously, my mpb has been amazing. We like to put apple at a high standard, I get it, but this has been the best computer I have ever owned and I have to say I speak for the *majority* here. I LOVE the keyboard by the way, and I also have the original 'Macbook' 1st gen when they came out with the new keyboard and thats even MORE low profile. I do prefer the mbp keyboard more but I love the low travel, allows me to type fast and just glide over the keyboard. If you prefer the old mechanical "KA-CHUUUNK" of type-writer style keyboard there are external keyboards out there.
Move forward instead of staying in place.
But seriously, my mpb has been amazing. We like to put apple at a high standard, I get it, but this has been the best computer I have ever owned and I have to say I speak for the *majority* here. I LOVE the keyboard by the way, and I also have the original 'Macbook' 1st gen when they came out with the new keyboard and thats even MORE low profile. I do prefer the mbp keyboard more but I love the low travel, allows me to type fast and just glide over the keyboard. If you prefer the old mechanical "KA-CHUUUNK" of type-writer style keyboard there are external keyboards out there.
Move forward instead of staying in place.
And you know this how, exactly?
Right - you don't. Simply an opinion. Which is fine - but don't present it as fact, because it is not.
That makes sense, I didn't realise one can simply get an external keyboard for the mechanical "KA-CHUUUNK" , problem solved. Also, we should all be ecstatic that the MBP is finally better than the plastic crap, which no-one should want to go back to .... You would know, you push your laptop to the limits as a developer ...
Is this the new level of ignorance ?
I didn't post my comment as fact, but as an opinion. If you like mechanical keyboards, go buy one. it's an option, not problem solved for any design flaws. So don't be ignorant with your post.
I do push the limits of the capabilities of the mbp. As does any other content creator when they are compiling/encoding/recording,etc. It sucks you had a bad experience with the keyboard, I've had a great experience with it and love it. Go take it to apple to get it repaired. In the future they can make it more reliable if they are having issues with it failing. Short of that the low key travel is probably here to stay even though is a minor controversy.
Just a month, I found a good deal on a brand new one.
Looks like they needed to get rid of 2016 models so they cut the price, I bought it for about $2000 so even less than a refurbished model.
I am not a hardcore typist. In fact typing is a small percentage of my computer work and is mostly when I need to write an email or whatever.
I dont have the new MacBook pro but was in the store the other day so hopped on a new one and opened up notes and started typing. At first my typing was terrible absolute gibberish. My typing with both hands is pretty average as far as words per minute. I know if I only type with my right hand I can do an average of 40 words per minute which is still average but faster then my typing with both hands. (just a technique I developed over the years even though I am left handed and use my mouse with my right hand).
After about 2 goes at typing in notes my muscle memory had started to adjust to the keyboard and I was typing as if I was on any other keyboard. Yes the travel is extremely short stroke but I got used to it fast.
Full disclosure I have never ever developed an obsessive love of any one keyboard as far as typing goes. I have used all kinds, some people can't type on anything that is not fully mechanical. I must say I have never developed any preference and am pretty much keyboard agnostic.
Though I am not a typist.
Not denying the issues, just sharing my experience.
[doublepost=1512461025][/doublepost]Also People have shown proof on here of having a screen uniformity issue, however I am yet to see it on any I have looked at in person here in New Zealand.
I dont have the new MacBook pro but was in the store the other day so hopped on a new one and opened up notes and started typing. At first my typing was terrible absolute gibberish. My typing with both hands is pretty average as far as words per minute. I know if I only type with my right hand I can do an average of 40 words per minute which is still average but faster then my typing with both hands. (just a technique I developed over the years even though I am left handed and use my mouse with my right hand).
After about 2 goes at typing in notes my muscle memory had started to adjust to the keyboard and I was typing as if I was on any other keyboard. Yes the travel is extremely short stroke but I got used to it fast.
Full disclosure I have never ever developed an obsessive love of any one keyboard as far as typing goes. I have used all kinds, some people can't type on anything that is not fully mechanical. I must say I have never developed any preference and am pretty much keyboard agnostic.
Though I am not a typist.
Not denying the issues, just sharing my experience.
[doublepost=1512461025][/doublepost]Also People have shown proof on here of having a screen uniformity issue, however I am yet to see it on any I have looked at in person here in New Zealand.
Probably the same kinds of reasons people still pay for microtransactions in games when they're universally hated...
You do realize that saying a bad keyboard is acceptable because you're not a typist is like saying that uncomfortable seats in a car is acceptable because you're not a delivery driver?
Seriously, knowingly making yourself uncomfortable simply so that you can have something new and shiny is completely and utterly stupid.
You can also buy Windows laptops with mechanical keyboards. For example, th Razer Blade Pro has one. But, like nearly all Windows laptops, you get a compromise. Either the trackpad sucks, or the plastics bend around keyboard and trackpad, or the damn thing is so big and heavy you don't want to lug it around. I've been looking for a Windows alternative but none has the high performance + solid design and quality feel for a similar price as an MBP. You can get much higher spec, but it'll look like a 1990s Dell and weigh the same. And cost more than the MBP.R
And that's exactly what's going to happen. Apple may be an insensitive and brutal company when it comes to customer complaints. But they care about the bottom line. When 1% or even less start coming to the stores for a €700 keyboard replacement, they take note. If the keyboard is really defective to such an extent that they start feeling it, they will dutifully fix it. They're in the money making business. If sufficient numbers of a product of €3k suddenly makes €700 less margin (not counting logistics overhead), they will act.
In the meantime, I like forums like these. When you see that there's substantial complaining, you know something is afoot, even if it's percentually small. It's like a canary in a coal mine.
What I'm saying is that for me as someone who is not a typist I didn't find the keyboard to be a bad keyboard. It's just different, I also did not find it uncomfortable. I didn't hate it. It's just different.
But I can jump between a butterfly keyboard, a mechanical keyboard, any keyboard. I am pretty agnostic when it comes to keyboards.
After having picked the 2017 Macbook Pro 15, I don't believe the keyboard is flawed or has an issue (other than the 2016 models). The one thing though is getting used to the shorter key travel, probably that needs a genuine effort for the first couple of months to learn to use less pressure on the keys compared to what we have been used to doing in the past.
If you don't find it uncomfortable to type on then your standards must be very low... Some people put up with the way american cars of the 1970s were built with the rust, rattling and whining noises from sloppily fitted parts and all kinds of faults causing breakdowns and other annoyances, but it doesn't mean there was nothing wrong with the damn things.
Maybe my standards are low. As I said I have no real preferences when it comes to keyboards.
Maybe it's my hands. I have a background working in machine shops, my hands have been scratched, cut, and burnt so many times that my fingertips are like leather.
As far as the short key travel goes, my typing is quite forceful. I tend to push all the way down when I type. As far as the way it felt I found that it was a similar experience to the way I would type on my iPhone except with a little click.
If you have a preference when it comes to keyboards then you will probably hate it, me personally I have found that I can type on pretty much anything, I am yet to find a keyboard that I couldn't type on (well except for those crazy ergonomic ones.)
Honestly - I think someone who can really type can adapt to new keyboards, and if you've used any of the default keyboards that used to come with windoze desktop any modern keyboards is a dream.
As to the MBP keyboard - I didn't like them in store, but owning a second hand 12" MP I've come to quite like it. My only concern at this point is the lack of reliability
As to the MBP keyboard - I didn't like them in store, but owning a second hand 12" MP I've come to quite like it. My only concern at this point is the lack of reliability
Never mind buying one, the 2016 models I tried in Apple’s very own shop nearly all had bunged up keys, particularly the space bar. So I didn’t buy.
From my anecdotal evidence of playing with them in the shop the 2017 models seem improved but how much and whether long-term reliability is there I can’t say.
Apple has made Apple-Care almost essential on these things, which further inflates the cost.
From my anecdotal evidence of playing with them in the shop the 2017 models seem improved but how much and whether long-term reliability is there I can’t say.
Apple has made Apple-Care almost essential on these things, which further inflates the cost.
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I have a work-supplied 2016 rMBP 15" that I'm happy enough with. Although it's a 2016 model, I just got it a few months ago, so it hasn't seen a lot of use yet.
I prefer the feel of the older keyboard (like my 2013 rMBP 13"). I prefer that keyboard's feel and I prefer the quieter typing on it (the newer keyboards are noticeably louder). My wife, in particular, gets bothered by the louder noise the newer ones make.
I did notice that my directional up key requires a bit more force than the other directional keys, so if I hit it lightly it might not register. I've found posts from others reporting the same, so I'm not sure if this is a defect that has formed with this key; I suspect it's more of a design defect and one that I can adjust to. Am I concerned about keys going bad and being difficult/impossible to correct via canned air? Yes, but nothing to report yet.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma, though, because my daughter's 2011 MacBook Air 13" is in need of replacing, and she'd like a 2016+ rMBP 13" because she wants the Retina screen with the lighter weight of the Air 13". She's currently a sophomore in college, FWIW. If she didn't care about the Retina, I'd probably get her a new Air. Or, if she could live with the heavier weight, I might get her a 2015 rMBP 13" (or give her my hand-me-down 2013 model).
So now I'm likely to get her a 2016 or 2017 model and I'm worried about the keyboard being having reliability issues for her, since she isn't the most gentle user of computers and I'm sure she'll occasionally be eating around it, so crumbs could be an issue. But she wants what she wants, and my wife wants me to get one for Xmas for her, so I think I'm just going to buy AppleCare+ and hope for the best. I'm leaning towards getting a refurb model from Apple's store and getting a 2016 model, where I can get her a better spec'd model at a discounted price.
One thing I'm wondering about is whether Apple actually made any design changes with the 2017 model's keyboard compared to the 2016. And, if they did, is the new keyboard compatible with the 2016, such that if we did encounter a problem, would/could they replace it with a 2017 keyboard.
I prefer the feel of the older keyboard (like my 2013 rMBP 13"). I prefer that keyboard's feel and I prefer the quieter typing on it (the newer keyboards are noticeably louder). My wife, in particular, gets bothered by the louder noise the newer ones make.
I did notice that my directional up key requires a bit more force than the other directional keys, so if I hit it lightly it might not register. I've found posts from others reporting the same, so I'm not sure if this is a defect that has formed with this key; I suspect it's more of a design defect and one that I can adjust to. Am I concerned about keys going bad and being difficult/impossible to correct via canned air? Yes, but nothing to report yet.
I'm in a bit of a dilemma, though, because my daughter's 2011 MacBook Air 13" is in need of replacing, and she'd like a 2016+ rMBP 13" because she wants the Retina screen with the lighter weight of the Air 13". She's currently a sophomore in college, FWIW. If she didn't care about the Retina, I'd probably get her a new Air. Or, if she could live with the heavier weight, I might get her a 2015 rMBP 13" (or give her my hand-me-down 2013 model).
So now I'm likely to get her a 2016 or 2017 model and I'm worried about the keyboard being having reliability issues for her, since she isn't the most gentle user of computers and I'm sure she'll occasionally be eating around it, so crumbs could be an issue. But she wants what she wants, and my wife wants me to get one for Xmas for her, so I think I'm just going to buy AppleCare+ and hope for the best. I'm leaning towards getting a refurb model from Apple's store and getting a 2016 model, where I can get her a better spec'd model at a discounted price.
One thing I'm wondering about is whether Apple actually made any design changes with the 2017 model's keyboard compared to the 2016. And, if they did, is the new keyboard compatible with the 2016, such that if we did encounter a problem, would/could they replace it with a 2017 keyboard.
Depends who you ask, I went to Lenovo due to ongoing problems with mine. Pricing too, ludicrous prices for what they are, and the fact they're unupgradable sealed the deal. Even if it was perfect and never broke down, the fact a premium, expensive laptop will be slow and outclassed in less than 3 years time is unacceptable. Imagine if my previous 2011 model was still running the 4GB of RAM and 500GB HDD it shipped with? I would have had to upgrade it in 2013, rather than 2017. That is a joke. Longevity is one of the reasons you buy premium products.
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IMO, the 2016-2017 is not the best match for those who eat around it, and those who are rougher on their systems (the MBA seems to be the best in that class - if only it had a retina!). A refurb base model 2016-7 sounds like a solid idea if that is the model she wants. Definitely AC+ it, or possibly instead even opt for a reputable AD plan with no deductible (if someone in your area offers it.)
If she is going to store it in a backpack with a lot of books, get her a hard case. They do not seem to withstand compression as well as the MBA, from what I have observed.
There is anecdotal evidence that they did, but the 2017 models have been around for only a few months, and therefore it's difficult to say much about their long term reliability. There have been indeed some instances of replacements with 2017 keys. I guess this will become more common with time, as the 2017 parts are those currently in production, and thus the easiest to get for Apple.
Definitely don't go without an extended warranty, though. The 2016 keyboards in particular are quite flimsy even when treated well. Sometimes they can be fixed by cleaning, sometimes not, but eating around them pretty much means asking for trouble.
And I definitely second the above suggestion to get a hard case (+ a padded sleeve) if she is going to shove the laptop into a bag full of stuff. The screen-keyboard clearance is almost null on these models, and getting marks on the screen from dirty keys can be quite easy.
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I have a 2016 nTB i5/16/512 MacBook Pro that I have been using for over a year now (manufactured 401 days ago according to Coconut Battery). I bought it to replace my 2012 15" retina MBP and I have had zero problems with it. Zero.
For me this is the perfect Mac as it is small and lightweight enough to easily transport and use every day but also powerful enough to get my work done. More portable than the 15" MacBook Pro and more powerful than the 12" MacBook. I have no complaints so far.
I did buy AppleCare but I always do so for all of my Apple Products.
Many users do seem to have valid concerns with the keyboard, but so far mine hasn't had any problems. I'm naturally a light typist (I hate loudly banging the keys) so maybe that helps. I do think that Apple could get rid of any issues if they moved to a keyboard design like the current Magic Keyboard, which I think doesn't use the butterfly mechanism.
Anyway, I'm sure there are valid concerns with the new models. But I would argue that those who do have problems, and discuss these problems here and in other forums, are not in the majority of users. For example, my wife uses a 2016 MacBook which has the same keyboard and she hasn't had any issues and she would never post about her Mac experience in a tech forum.
For me this is the perfect Mac as it is small and lightweight enough to easily transport and use every day but also powerful enough to get my work done. More portable than the 15" MacBook Pro and more powerful than the 12" MacBook. I have no complaints so far.
I did buy AppleCare but I always do so for all of my Apple Products.
Many users do seem to have valid concerns with the keyboard, but so far mine hasn't had any problems. I'm naturally a light typist (I hate loudly banging the keys) so maybe that helps. I do think that Apple could get rid of any issues if they moved to a keyboard design like the current Magic Keyboard, which I think doesn't use the butterfly mechanism.
Anyway, I'm sure there are valid concerns with the new models. But I would argue that those who do have problems, and discuss these problems here and in other forums, are not in the majority of users. For example, my wife uses a 2016 MacBook which has the same keyboard and she hasn't had any issues and she would never post about her Mac experience in a tech forum.
Yeah, I know I've read a report or two about 2016 MBP's having their keyboards replaced with 2017 keyboards, but I wasn't sure how accurate that info is (how would someone really know?), and that's what I'm kind of hoping might be the case if I do decide to purchase a refurbished 2016 model from Apple (and ever experience a keyboard issue).
They changed the labels on the keys to the left of the space bar. That's how they know.