Why does Apple struggle with messaging when so many others get it right?

[MozMan68]

Speaking of pulling things out of one's ass...don't type without carefully reading first. The word "if" means conditional. It was a hypothetical example. I made no assertion about the actual percentage. There's absolutely nothing wrong with posing a conditional and stating that if that conditional is true, it's unacceptable.

But since you're being such an absolute peach here, now I'll go ahead and speculate, and my background in market research and usability means that my guesstimates are much, much better than others. And I think it's probably a bit higher than just 2% in terms of incidence, but given the infrequency, the impact isn't huge.

This one's easily provable too. Wanna make a $20K bet? Loser pays for the research study?

Yeah, I didn't think so.
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Two reasons: legacy and universal usage.

iMessage began to rise to prominence at a time when carriers were charging per SMS/MMS message. And now, even though message searching absolutely sucks, there are switching costs. To use Skype, WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. requires both parties actively download that client. That's never a guarantee. By contrast, it's all but assured that everyone has a cellular phone, and so knowing that you have SMS as a backup if iMessage doesn't work or isn't supported leaves everyone stuck.

We're slowing getting closer to a world with alternatives. Google Voice is a neglected product, but it's gotten better at blending into the native phone experience for iOS and Android alike. But we're still a long ways off.

Awesome...so yeah, out of the 725 million active iPhones in the world today, 14.5 million are probably experiencing this issue in your expert opinion. That’s a great hypothesis.

And my statement didn’t make any assumptions about anyone’s profession or expertise. It was based on the absurdity that you are “hypothesizing” that nearly 15 million people have an issue with iMessage and Apple is ignoring them.

I stand by my post. The issue is so insignificant, it is more likely an issue due to local carrier or internet service than some sort of random glitch in iMessage. Power users on here will find the most minute “bugs” and report on them like the world is coming to an end. I TRY to be a little more realistic...try....

 

[MozMan68]

This Macrumors 'group chat' is full of people quoting each other's posts include your own. There is a reason you quoted itsmilo's post and didn't copy and paste it. It's exactly the same. It greatly improves understanding within a group context.

Yeah...I get it...but this is a forum with sometimes 100 of users or more chiming in.

I admitted that I probably simply do not use group messaging to the extent that others do or in the same context.

 

[digger10]

Yeah...I get it...but this is a forum with sometimes 100 of users or more chiming in.

I admitted that I probably simply do not use group messaging to the extent that others do or in the same context.

Even on a one-to-one basis it's really useful. If a conversation has moved on and you want to refer back to something earlier without typing out a long ass explaination about what you're talking about, for example. Last week I was in a store that re-stocked some shoes my gf was looking for six months ago but had sold out (must be a seasonal thing). 1) Quick search for the name of the shoe, 2) quote the relevant text, 3) reply "btw, just seen these are back in stock". Much easier than writing something like, "remember months ago you were looking for blah blah blah"

Or if you want to be quite specific. Say a friend sends a joke/something funny in the morning, then messages a bit later saying they're sick/failed that important exam etc. If you pick up your phone later again, you might want to laugh at the joke specifically, so quote it and add a quick laugh emoji, before sending sometime more substantial and empathetic about the illness/exam. Lineally, your "laughter" would appear right after the bad news otherwise, which is obviously not good.

 

[fisherking]

Even on a one-to-one basis it's really useful. If a conversation has moved on and you want to refer back to something earlier without typing out a long ass explaination about what you're talking about, for example. Last week I was in a store that re-stocked some shoes my gf was looking for six months ago but had sold out (must be a seasonal thing). 1) Quick search for the name of the shoe, 2) quote the relevant text, 3) reply "btw, just seen these are back in stock". Much easier than writing something like, "remember months ago you were looking for blah blah blah"

Or if you want to be quite specific. Say a friend sends a joke/something funny in the morning, then messages a bit later saying they're sick/failed that important exam etc. If you pick up your phone later again, you might want to laugh at the joke specifically, so quote it and add a quick laugh emoji, before sending sometime more substantial and empathetic about the illness/exam. Lineally, your "laughter" would appear right after the bad news otherwise, which is obviously not good.

and so, good that we can highlight a text, copy & paste it....

 

[digger10]

and so, good that we can highlight a text, copy & paste it....

Of course, it's just not as efficient or elegant. Plus if you tap the quoted text, WhatsApp also kicks you back to the original quoted message, so, in my example, my gf could go back six months and could read the message and those around it about the shoes in their original context as a reminder. It essentially does exactly what the little up arrow does by the username on Macrumors.

Personally I much prefer WhatsApp. It can handle almost any type of file you throw at it. It's much better at sending with low connectivity where iMessage would give up and send an SMS. Search is much, much more powerful and helpful at finding earlier information. You know before, not after, if the recipient has it so don't start a message chain over SMS and spend the next few days regretting it. You can decide what Is saved to the phone/camera roll/cloud with more granularity - per contact, per media type etc.

Bottomline though, in reality, if in N America I try iMessage first because the intended recipient is quite likely to have it. If in Europe WhatsApp as the recipient is almost certain to have it.

 

[MozMan68]

Of course, it's just not as efficient or elegant. Plus if you tap the quoted text, WhatsApp also kicks you back to the original quoted message, so, in my example, my gf could go back six months and could read the message and those around it about the shoes in their original context as a reminder. It essentially does exactly what the little up arrow does by the username on Macrumors.

Personally I much prefer WhatsApp. It can handle almost any type of file you throw at it. It's much better at sending with low connectivity where iMessage would give up and send an SMS. Search is much, much more powerful and helpful at finding earlier information. You know before, not after, if the recipient has it so don't start a message chain over SMS and spend the next few days regretting it. You can decide what Is saved to the phone/camera roll/cloud more granularity - per contact, per media type etc.

Bottomline though, in reality, if in N America I try iMessage first because the intended recipient is quite likely to have it. If in Europe WhatsApp as the recipient is almost certain to have it.

Dude!

a) I don't want any significant other having the ability to go back 6 months and throw what I wrote back in my face
b) After 1 WEEK, all bets are off...buying those shoes are no longer on the table
c) I never really used search on WhatsApp when I had it, but I do use it on my work phone for iMessage and it seems to work fine. What is better about WhatsApp as far as search is concerned?

 

[digger10]

Dude!

a) I don't want any significant other having the ability to go back 6 months and throw what I wrote back in my face
b) After 1 WEEK, all bets are off...buying those shoes are no longer on the table
c) I never really used search on WhatsApp when I had it, but I do use it on my work phone for iMessage and it seems to work fine. What is better about WhatsApp as far as search is concerned?

Search/stroll through group documents, group links, or group media. You can 'star' favoured messages for easy later reference. Plus general search is more forgiving of typos and case sensitivity.

 

[phoneme]

what do you mean by 'crossplatform'? i use messages regularly with iphone users, & android users. we send (& receive) messages, images, gifs. etc. it's simple, it works. isn't that the point? & i don't have to check first whether the people i message with HAVE skype, or whatsapp, installed...

lol try using imessage on a windows or linux device, it's not truly cross platform just like the iphone can't truly do multitasking it's always halfbaked, with anroid it just works no matter the platform you need to use at time....and oh good luck with that.

 

[MozMan68]

lol try using imessage on a windows or linux device, it's not truly cross platform just like the iphone can't truly do multitasking it's always halfbaked, with anroid it just works no matter the platform you need to use at time....and oh good luck with that.

But that's the whole point of iMessage, isn't it?

When it was launched, people went nuts to get iPhones (even more than before) since they now had a messaging protocol that was encrypted end to end, safer (Apple safe) and would work over WiFi between other iPhones (oh...and eventually iPads, Macs, etc.)

Apple isn't stupid...it not only satisfied the people already on Apple architecture, but brought a ton more people into the fold. It was only after this that WhatsApp became popular because it did the same thing cross-platform. Their user base was built almost exclusively on non-Apple users who had no other choice due to cost and/or availability of iPhones in their market. It really wasn't that long ago that you couldn't use an iPhone in many parts of the world, even if you could afford it.

 

[phoneme]

WhatsApp became popular because it did the same thing cross-platform.

whatsapp does alot more than imessge. whatsapp is a way more polished app with all it can do.

 

[MozMan68]

whatsapp does alot more than imessge. whatsapp is a way more polished app with all it can do.

Now...it has all the extra stuff...it was just messaging when it started and became popular. The cross-platform aspect of it is what made it huge.

The other items it added, like calls, video, etc (SnapChat has this as well) were added because its an app. Apple owns the hardware platform, so they are able to have FaceTime, phone, messaging separated. Those things aren't a function of iMessage because they don't have to be. Saying it is worst due to those specific items is not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

 

[itsmilo]

On WhatsApp i can easily see and manage all attached media categorized perfectly and can wipe with one click what I want to delete.

On iCloud Messages it is just a MESS.

I also hate that pictures received do not automatically end up in the camera roll and I cannot choose for media to only download on WiFi or manually by tapping on it

 

[Sedulous]

More often than not, the OP’s issues are simply caused by not having the same account/number active on all devices.

 

[fisherking]

Bottomline though, in reality, if in N America I try iMessage first because the intended recipient is quite likely to have it. If in Europe WhatsApp as the recipient is almost certain to have it.

this, so true. i installed whatsapp to message with friends in europe, where everyone seems to use the app. in the US, everyone is reachable thru messages...
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lol try using imessage on a windows or linux device, it's not truly cross platform just like the iphone can't truly do multitasking it's always halfbaked, with anroid it just works no matter the platform you need to use at time....and oh good luck with that.

everyone i know (in the US) has an android phone or an iphone. am assuming you don't mean a (gasp) windows or linux phone?

iphone multitasking works fine here, perhaps take your phone to an applestore...

 

[digger10]

Another reason I guess iMessage didn't become as popular here. Europeans are much more likely to leave the country for work — given big organisations are mostly organised on a continental basis — or if they live near one of the many borders. I forgot what an absolute PITA it used to be when when iMessages would "helpfully" default to SMS then, unless careful, you'd find yourself paying for expensive foreign SMSs which didn't come in plans or roaming charges.


Thankfully fairly recent legislation has made this a non-issue.

 

[TimFL1]

The majority of those users were on there before Facebook purchased them and I would guess most joining now have no idea Facebook owns them.

I’m not paranoid...Facebook is I. The news practically once a month for collecting data without users knowledge...and suspiciously so...

That is false. WhatsApp was bought by Facebook some time in 2014, a year with approximately 500mil users. It's now somewhere in the 1,5bil numbers.

But I agree with the "they don't know" aspect. I know a lot of people who don't know about the fact that Facebook owns WhatsApp.

 

[jmiddel]

Generally iMessage works great for me, but at times messages fail to sync across iPhone and iPad. It happens randomly, and I have no idea why or how to fix it.

 

[mrex]

so, just like apple messages, except you have to make sure that, whoever you're planning to communicate with..

... have to own apple device.

using a crossplatform app doesnt mean you have to buy a certain device. that is the difference between imessage and an app. and a quite huge difference.

 

[russell_314]

... have to own apple device.

using a crossplatform app doesnt mean you have to buy a certain device. that is the difference between imessage and an app. and a quite huge difference.

I don't think you're getting it. I can send an iMessage to anyone with a phone number and it changes to SMS if they don't have iMessage. Does WhatsApp change to SMS if they don't have WhatsApp installed?

iMessage might require an Apple device if you want the full features but it also works cross platform without any required app to be installed. Other messenger programs don't have this feature.

 

[mib1800]

I don't think you're getting it. I can send an iMessage to anyone with a phone number and it changes to SMS if they don't have iMessage. Does WhatsApp change to SMS if they don't have WhatsApp installed?

iMessage might require an Apple device if you want the full features but it also works cross platform without any required app to be installed. Other messenger programs don't have this feature.

And get slapped with expensive roaming SMS charges for yourself and your recipients.

 

[russell_314]

And get slapped with expensive roaming SMS charges for yourself and your recipients.

I think you're grasping for straws there LOL

 

[phoneme]

I don't think you're getting it. I can send an iMessage to anyone with a phone number and it changes to SMS if they don't have iMessage. Does WhatsApp change to SMS if they don't have WhatsApp installed?

iMessage might require an Apple device if you want the full features but it also works cross platform without any required app to be installed. Other messenger programs don't have this feature.

whatsapp doesn't have to change anything to SMS because as long as both parties have whatsapp it's gonna work on all platforms even if it's on ios or macOS, windows or linux, imessage is not cross platform because you cannot run it on a windows, linux or android. it's a 1 trick pony.

 

[russell_314]

whatsapp doesn't have to change anything to SMS because as long as both parties have whatsapp it's gonna work on all platforms even if it's on ios or macOS, windows or linux, imessage is not cross platform because you cannot run it on a windows, linux or android. it's a 1 trick pony.

"as long as both parties have whatsapp". Exactly my point. And if both parties don't have it?
"imessage is not cross platform because you cannot run it on a windows, linux or android". I guess I better tell my Android friends to stop messaging me if that's the case LOL

 

[phoneme]

"as long as both parties have whatsapp". Exactly my point. And if both parties don't have it?
"imessage is not cross platform because you cannot run it on a windows, linux or android". I guess I better tell my Android friends to stop messaging me if that's the case LOL

i'm talking about "messaging" im talking the app you use for messaging. of course every phone has the ability to send a messg to any other phone.

 

[mib1800]

I think you're grasping for straws there LOL

It is naive to think this is not an issue