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gank41

macrumors 601
Mar 25, 2008
4,350
5,021
Parallels generates a big enough splash that if they violated of Microsoft's preferences you would have seen legal action or code blocking.
In fact, I suspect they are getting preferential developer support from both Apple and Microsoft. What they are doing works extremely well and has been stable through multiple OS versions both for guest and host. You do not get that without inside collaboration.
I’ve always thought that Windows on ARM folks like ourselves running it in Parallels we’re just Microsoft’s Guinea Pigs.
 
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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,024
2,616
Los Angeles, CA
How do Microsoft produce anything like this. Without suitable hardware documentation from Apple?

The fact Windows does not run on Mx is 100% down to Apple.

Even a raspberryPi will boot and run windows for arm without virtualisation. You can be sure MS haven’t made a custom version just for them.

Since I am actually able to run 32-bit Windows software on my M1 Mac under parallels I’m quite sure you are not correct. Besides… why would they translate it to 32-bit ARM? Way much more work this way. Aarch64 is a better target, unless you want to do the work twice.

Apologies all: I did in fact get my wires crossed. 32-bit ARM code won't run. Not sure where my sleep-deprived over-caffeinated brain crossed the wires there, but you all are right and I apologize to you all for getting those wires crossed.

I love it when someone says something with such authority and yet they are completely and utterly wrong. Windows on ARM translates 32-bit x86 to ARM64 code. Why don't you do some research before making yourself look foolish.

Except for you; your response was akin to that of a child and it's responses like that one that make this world worse.

Incorrect. The Windows translation layer runs 32-bit apps just fine. Our apps work like a charm in both 32-bit and 64-bit versions. Some of us actually develop in Parallels on Windows 11 with Visual Studio. The performance is pretty good. We also have a macOS version and most of my developers prefer a Mac.
You're right; got my wires crossed with ARM32 for some reason.
 
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DeanL

macrumors 65816
May 29, 2014
1,352
1,288
London
32-bit x86 Windows code will not work on an installation of Windows for ARM64 running as a VM on an Apple Silicon Mac. The translation isn't 32-bit x86 to ARM64 directly; it's by way of 32-bit ARM, which is supported on currently shipping Windows for ARM64 devices, but not any Apple Silicon SoC newer than A10. A11 and onwards (including the A14-based M1 family of SoCs and the A15-based M2 family of SoCs) do not support running any 32-bit ARM code of any kind.

The way this manifests itself in a Windows for ARM64 VM running on an Apple Silicon Mac is that some of the Windows Store Apps, which are 32-bit ARM apps and not full ARM64, just don't run and error out.
That changed recently-Windows 11 now has a ARM32 to ARM64 translator
 

mj_

macrumors 68000
May 18, 2017
1,618
1,281
Austin, TX
I'm familiar with that article, thank you. But the screenshots very clearly show that whoever documented this was running a Windows 11 Insider Preview:

image-20211122142714-1.png

Activated with a valid license or not it remains a preview, does it not? 🤷‍♂️
 
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Wizec

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2019
680
778
I'm familiar with that article, thank you. But the screenshots very clearly show that whoever documented this was running a Windows 11 Insider Preview:

View attachment 2041132
Activated with a valid license or not it remains a preview, does it not? 🤷‍♂️
The process no longer downloads an insider preview. It did in the past, but it was changed.

I’ve done it twice, once when it first came out and I got the preview, then again a few months ago and it’s not a preview anymore.
 
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Doc69

macrumors 6502a
Dec 21, 2005
648
85
The process no longer downloads an insider preview. It did in the past, but it was changed.

I’ve done it twice, once when it first came out and I got the preview, then again a few months ago and it’s not a preview anymore.
I'm totally dependent on being able to run Windows VMs on my Macs, so I have been holding off buying M1/M2 Macs. Is running Windows 10/11 VMs on M1/M2 Macs now officially working and supported? Does it work as well as it does on Intel or are there still some quirks to iron out before Windows M1/M2 is ready for prime time? Also, am I correct to assume that I won't be able to open any of my current Windows VMs (created Intel Mac) on an M1/M2 Mac?
 

Wizec

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2019
680
778
I'm totally dependent on being able to run Windows VMs on my Macs, so I have been holding off buying M1/M2 Macs. Is running Windows 10/11 VMs on M1/M2 Macs now officially working and supported? Does it work as well as it does on Intel or are there still some quirks to iron out before Windows M1/M2 is ready for prime time? Also, am I correct to assume that I won't be able to open any of my current Windows VMs (created Intel Mac) on an M1/M2 Mac?
There are a few caveats. Some software, like Visual Studio 2022 isn’t fully supported.
 

xraydoc

Contributor
Oct 9, 2005
11,022
5,484
192.168.1.1
Also, am I correct to assume that I won't be able to open any of my current Windows VMs (created Intel Mac) on an M1/M2 Mac?
Correct. You'll need to make new VMs with the Windows ARM Insider.

Is running Windows 10/11 VMs on M1/M2 Macs now officially working and supported?
Depends on what you mean. Parallels officially supports Windows on ARM for as long as Microsoft chooses not to add code that blocks it.

As to how well your specific apps run on it, that's a YMMV situation.
 

bobcomer

macrumors 601
May 18, 2015
4,949
3,699
I'm totally dependent on being able to run Windows VMs on my Macs, so I have been holding off buying M1/M2 Macs. Is running Windows 10/11 VMs on M1/M2 Macs now officially working and supported? Does it work as well as it does on Intel or are there still some quirks to iron out before Windows M1/M2 is ready for prime time? Also, am I correct to assume that I won't be able to open any of my current Windows VMs (created Intel Mac) on an M1/M2 Mac?
It's still not supported by Microsoft unfortunately, and the licensing is still iffy without that support. It runs fairly well, speed is decent and while it's not perfectly compatible, most things run.

Here's a thought, maybe if enough people give Microsoft feedback on the desire to run WoA in a VM on other than qualcomm processors (the only supported ARM CPU type), maybe we'll get somewhere. I know I'd be happy if it happened!
 
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Mikael H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 3, 2014
864
539
I'm totally dependent on being able to run Windows VMs on my Macs, so I have been holding off buying M1/M2 Macs. Is running Windows 10/11 VMs on M1/M2 Macs now officially working and supported?
I’m sure once it gets Microsoft’s blessing we’ll see a big enough splash in official channels that you’re unlikely to miss it. Until then, keep running Intel Macs or, if they get too long in the tooth, get a Windows computer until further notice.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,674
I'm totally dependent on being able to run Windows VMs on my Macs, so I have been holding off buying M1/M2 Macs. Is running Windows 10/11 VMs on M1/M2 Macs now officially working and supported?

I’m sure once it gets Microsoft’s blessing we’ll see a big enough splash in official channels that you’re unlikely to miss it.

Just as a quick notice, I don't believe Microsoft ever officially supported running Windows on any Mac, be it in a VM or Bootcamp.
 
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KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,308
8,320
Parallels generates a big enough splash that if they violated of Microsoft's preferences you would have seen legal action or code blocking.
In fact, I suspect they are getting preferential developer support from both Apple and Microsoft. What they are doing works extremely well and has been stable through multiple OS versions both for guest and host. You do not get that without inside collaboration.
And now VMWare is in on the action. My guess is that Microsoft has indicated they won’t crack down on individual users. That said, enterprises will likely wait until there is official support.
 

usidore_blue_wzrd

macrumors newbie
Aug 4, 2022
5
12
Foon
It's not that Microsoft is "not cracking down," but rather that everyone is complying with Microsoft. Microsoft offers Windows 11 Arm VHDX for free as a preview. Apple silicon is unsupported, but that's only a blocker to having some confidence from Microsoft that it will work. It's not a compliance issue with Microsoft's licensing terms for the software.

Preview builds are probably not suitable for enterprise use in most cases because Microsoft is explicitly indicating that the software is experimental. They aren't making any support guarantees, and reliability and security efforts could be low compared to commercial general releases. Microsoft could even make low level changes to Windows ARM that breaks on apple silicon, as part of the normal course of development.
 

Wizec

macrumors 6502a
Jun 30, 2019
680
778
It's not that Microsoft is "not cracking down," but rather that everyone is complying with Microsoft. Microsoft offers Windows 11 Arm VHDX for free as a preview. Apple silicon is unsupported, but that's only a blocker to having some confidence from Microsoft that it will work. It's not a compliance issue with Microsoft's licensing terms for the software.

Preview builds are probably not suitable for enterprise use in most cases because Microsoft is explicitly indicating that the software is experimental. They aren't making any support guarantees, and reliability and security efforts could be low compared to commercial general releases. Microsoft could even make low level changes to Windows ARM that breaks on apple silicon, as part of the normal course of development.
It’s a retail build and has been for over a year.
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,674
It's not that Microsoft is "not cracking down," but rather that everyone is complying with Microsoft. Microsoft offers Windows 11 Arm VHDX for free as a preview. Apple silicon is unsupported, but that's only a blocker to having some confidence from Microsoft that it will work. It's not a compliance issue with Microsoft's licensing terms for the software.

Preview builds are probably not suitable for enterprise use in most cases because Microsoft is explicitly indicating that the software is experimental. They aren't making any support guarantees, and reliability and security efforts could be low compared to commercial general releases. Microsoft could even make low level changes to Windows ARM that breaks on apple silicon, as part of the normal course of development.

I believe this is the unofficial Microsoft policy. They will probably avoid breaking stuff for Apple VM users, maybe even improving support here and there (as you say), but we are unlikely to ever get an “official” stamp on any of this simply for legal reasons. Supporting a product also means to offer troubleshooting and some level of service/user protection and third-party uncertified hardware is just way too risky.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
There are retail builds of ARM Windows? Where?

I echo that question -- I would love to be able to buy it,
Its tied to a machine. That is you can buy an arm based windows machine today and it comes with ARM based windows

The Lenovo Thinkpad X13S is one such machine

Truth be told, I thought ARM windows was still in preview/pre-release but I recalled seeing Ars Technica cover the X13s

At the moment while "retail" you cannot buy Windows on ARM (or is it Arm on windows???)
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,674
Lol, non-preview builds, licensed with a Retail Key. I’ve done it multiple times

Ah, sure, you can use the retail key for an insider build. MS themselves say it’s ok. But I dint believe they sell a retail version of ARM Windows as such.

At any rate, that’s just legal stuff. The point is that Windows on ARM is available and runs decently enough, if not without limitations. It’s not like Bootcamp was ever officially supported by MS either…
 
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