Why I am now a proud owner of a Surface Pro

[0lf]

As an ipad air 2 and surface pro 2 user, my opinion on the surface :

I started with an ipad 2, and my main computer was an Asus laptop. The tablet was "liberating" for ligh task and media consumption. So much that the use of the PC became sort of a pain.

When surface was announced I had great hope, and finally buy a SP2 at the end of 2013 (black friday). It was on paper the perfect machine : great touch UI, powerfull multitasking, powerfull with powerfull app. But using it, I realized the experience felt short of my expectations:
- It weight
- touch usage was still not has good as with ipad
so for quick use and consumption I was still reaching the ipad
- It was a bad notebook (small screen : 10.6" and 16:9 make a very limited vertical workspace, only one USB port for the mouse because the trackpad was terrible, so each time I had to plug something I have to deplug the mouse (I try bluetooth mouse but it suffer from connection issues)
- It was a bad laptop due to the type cover implementation
- Powerfull apps still require mouse and keyboard (the pen lack precision to properly replace a mouse)
So, I had to live with poor lapability or be forced to reach a desk each time I have to use a powerfull legacy app, and on a desk, far from the eyes, the screen was too small

So for now, I use an ipad air 2, very light and enjoyable for quick task, and a macbook when I need a laptop (as powerfull as SP2 was, much better lapability, much better on a desk, good trackpad...)

I know SP4 addresses some limitation, but trackpad, keyboard, lapability are still a problem, and as long as powerfull app remain legacy winn32 app that require me to "transform" my device the pain will remain.

 

[apolloa]

I would go ahead and get it. The surface pro is my only PC now. I don't have a laptop anymore or an iPad to watch movies and search internet. Well worth it in my opinion.

Thanks but I didn't get it in the end, don't have the money currently unless I use the credit card and not sure if I'll go for a tablet PC, I got some fantastic deals on some films and games instead, all digital.
I need to save up for a computer really and I think getting one with the new Nbidia graphics cards is best for me. Plus I love the new Studio computer.
I'm thinking the Nvidia GTX1060 and that big screen will be fantastic for Starcraft 2

 

[Foggydog]

I'm a speed reader. I read your hole post in 8 seconds. I really liked the part about the dog...



And yes things are a changing and maybe not for the better. We all must make choices.

8 seconds? OMG
[doublepost=1480169573][/doublepost]To the OP,
I was most interested in the fact that you started out on DOS.
I now with I had gotten started on computers and programming back then.
Props to you.

 

[derekamoss]

As an ipad air 2 and surface pro 2 user, my opinion on the surface :

I started with an ipad 2, and my main computer was an Asus laptop. The tablet was "liberating" for ligh task and media consumption. So much that the use of the PC became sort of a pain.

When surface was announced I had great hope, and finally buy a SP2 at the end of 2013 (black friday). It was on paper the perfect machine : great touch UI, powerfull multitasking, powerfull with powerfull app. But using it, I realized the experience felt short of my expectations:
- It weight
- touch usage was still not has good as with ipad
so for quick use and consumption I was still reaching the ipad
- It was a bad notebook (small screen : 10.6" and 16:9 make a very limited vertical workspace, only one USB port for the mouse because the trackpad was terrible, so each time I had to plug something I have to deplug the mouse (I try bluetooth mouse but it suffer from connection issues)
- It was a bad laptop due to the type cover implementation
- Powerfull apps still require mouse and keyboard (the pen lack precision to properly replace a mouse)
So, I had to live with poor lapability or be forced to reach a desk each time I have to use a powerfull legacy app, and on a desk, far from the eyes, the screen was too small

So for now, I use an ipad air 2, very light and enjoyable for quick task, and a macbook when I need a laptop (as powerfull as SP2 was, much better lapability, much better on a desk, good trackpad...)

I know SP4 addresses some limitation, but trackpad, keyboard, lapability are still a problem, and as long as powerfull app remain legacy winn32 app that require me to "transform" my device the pain will remain.

The Surface Pro 3 & 4 are completely different beasts than the SP 1 & 2. They are actually pretty light. The new type covers are really awesome too. It can feel like a laptop keyboard and the trackpads are bigger and made of glass now. The SP 1& 2 were an awesome idea but couldn't really replace anything but believe me with the new ones the difference is like night and day.

 

[I7guy]

8 seconds? OMG
[doublepost=1480169573][/doublepost]To the OP,
I was most interested in the fact that you started out on DOS.
I now with I had gotten started on computers and programming back then.
Props to you.

I bought the original IBM XT with two floppy discs in 1904 (/s). My wife made me throw it out after keeping that relic all these years.

 

[0lf]

The Surface Pro 3 & 4 are completely different beasts than the SP 1 & 2. They are actually pretty light. The new type covers are really awesome too. It can feel like a laptop keyboard and the trackpads are bigger and made of glass now. The SP 1& 2 were an awesome idea but couldn't really replace anything but believe me with the new ones the difference is like night and day.

I know how the new type cover feel. The keyboard and trackpad are much better, but still the macbook is in a different league : the TC trackpad is still quite small, the entire surface cannot be clicked, the keyboard "vibrate"... and lapability is still not good.
about weight, the SP4 is still more than 750g, not that much lighter than the 900g SP2. The ipad is less than 450g.
So, while SP4 is a much better device than SP2, it is still not enough to beat what I currently have the way I use it.

 

[derekamoss]

I know how the new type cover feel. The keyboard and trackpad are much better, but still the macbook is in a different league : the TC trackpad is still quite small, the entire surface cannot be clicked, the keyboard "vibrate"... and lapability is still not good.
about weight, the SP4 is still more than 750g, not that much lighter than the 900g SP2. The ipad is less than 450g.
So, while SP4 is a much better device than SP2, it is still not enough to beat what I currently have the way I use it.

Yeah, I meant more to say they have made strides to making it a lot thinner and lighter. Its definitely heavier than an iPad but being the fact that it's a full blown PC unlike the iPad, the trade off of it being a little heavier was not bothersome to me. Yeah the trackpads and keyboard aren't as good as the ones on the last MacBook I had but my usage is docking it with a monitor and a full keyboard and mouse set up on the table. Then if I need it as a laptop just attach the type cover and go, then if I just want to chill and browse on the sofa while watching the TV I just leave the type cover behind and enjoy it as a consumption device.

I'm not saying apple products suck, I loved them at one point, and a lot of people I know still do, but Apple has nothing like the surface pro in their product line. I can't say if its because the don't believe in it or because they would rather you buy a iMac for the desktop setup, a MacBook Pro for the laptop setup and then the much higher priced iPad Pro just to get one of the unique things about the Surface. Just the fact that Microsoft can fit the ability of all three of those scenarios into 750g tablet is pretty awesome.

 

[0lf]

I think Apple really don't want to do it because they don't believe in it. May be they will do hybrid if the market really force them to, but for now, I suppose Apple think people use iPad because they love user experience, and so Apple want productive apps to embrace that user experience and touch interface, while on a hybrid machine, people have to "desk" to use legacy app.

I expect at one point the two strategies will converge : more ambitious apps on mobile devices and more touch friendly converted legacy apps.

For now, people who want a desktop which can be use as a convenient consumption device will go the surface route while people who want touch interface first will go the iPad route.

 

[melendezest]

Apple is smart.

They know that if they imbue the iPad with abilities that would make it viable as a desktop/laptop, people will stop buying Macs as well.

So they will continue to milk this cow until it is absolutely dry. That has been their M.O. from the beginning. They release features at a snail's pace, so that people just keep upgrading. They cripple their machines and plan obsolescence. No one else does this. But they know that it is emotionally hard to switch platforms, especially when there is a single feature you really like.

The problem for Apple is, people are starting to get wise to their scam. People like you and me.

So, we leave the platform for something that, while perhaps not as polished as Apple products, gives us what we want now.

I wasted too much time waiting for Apple, and time is the most expensive thing there is. And I waited only to be disappointed in that they were moving further and further away from what I want in my computing devices.

Thankfully, both Google and Microsoft (as well as their respective OEMs) are actually looking at what Apple is doing and then adding the missing features, in both hardware and software. They are also thinking outside the box and actually innovating (the Surface Studio being the greatest, most recent example).

 

[apolloa]

One of the best packaged and designed computers I've seen since the new Mac Pro was launched, the interface could be a bit smoother with the touch screen though:

 

[epicrayban]

It's sad that this is happening to the computer side of Apple.

I've been looking more and more at Chromebooks.

 

[derekamoss]

Apple is smart.

They know that if they imbue the iPad with abilities that would make it viable as a desktop/laptop, people will stop buying Macs as well.

So they will continue to milk this cow until it is absolutely dry. That has been their M.O. from the beginning. They release features at a snail's pace, so that people just keep upgrading. They cripple their machines and plan obsolescence. No one else does this. But they know that it is emotionally hard to switch platforms, especially when there is a single feature you really like.

The problem for Apple is, people are starting to get wise to their scam. People like you and me.

So, we leave the platform for something that, while perhaps not as polished as Apple products, gives us what we want now.

I wasted too much time waiting for Apple, and time is the most expensive thing there is. And I waited only to be disappointed in that they were moving further and further away from what I want in my computing devices.

Thankfully, both Google and Microsoft (as well as their respective OEMs) are actually looking at what Apple is doing and then adding the missing features, in both hardware and software. They are also thinking outside the box and actually innovating (the Surface Studio being the greatest, most recent example).

It's sad that this is happening to the computer side of Apple.

I've been looking more and more at Chromebooks.

It is really sad considering the only reason they are still in business is the people who bought Mac's in the first place. Steve and the Mac were the two things that kept Apple out of going bankrupt. As great as it was the iPod was the beginning of all this consumerism Apple has become. At least when Steve was alive he knew who the people were that kept the company going and kept the Mac side of Apple not a second party to anything not iOS.

 

[spinedoc77]

Yeah, I meant more to say they have made strides to making it a lot thinner and lighter. Its definitely heavier than an iPad but being the fact that it's a full blown PC unlike the iPad, the trade off of it being a little heavier was not bothersome to me. Yeah the trackpads and keyboard aren't as good as the ones on the last MacBook I had but my usage is docking it with a monitor and a full keyboard and mouse set up on the table. Then if I need it as a laptop just attach the type cover and go, then if I just want to chill and browse on the sofa while watching the TV I just leave the type cover behind and enjoy it as a consumption device.

I'm not saying apple products suck, I loved them at one point, and a lot of people I know still do, but Apple has nothing like the surface pro in their product line. I can't say if its because the don't believe in it or because they would rather you buy a iMac for the desktop setup, a MacBook Pro for the laptop setup and then the much higher priced iPad Pro just to get one of the unique things about the Surface. Just the fact that Microsoft can fit the ability of all three of those scenarios into 750g tablet is pretty awesome.

I've always been confused why the weight is such a big deal, at least when you consider both the ipad and sp4 are pretty darn light. I've always pictured in my mind some users holding up their ipads, at arms length, for hours at a time and wonder if that's why the weight is so important. IMO some of the hardware features of the SP4 offset the weight easily. The kickstand alone offers so much functionality, even just having it rest on my body if I'm lying in bed or on the sofa means I'm not holding anything up. If weight is an issue because of carrying it around in a bag then I completely understand, but I'd rather carry a SP4 than lug around an ipad AND a MacBook.

I like the trackpad on the SP4, although since it's a touchscreen I find myself using that 99% of the time. The macbooks (and any non touch laptop) just seems so deeply handicapped after having experienced a touchscreen. But I'm not a big fan of trackpads anyway, I can do without the repetitive stress injuries and find they add another layer of abstraction versus just touching what you want to do. If I really need to sit down and get some work done I'll just hook up a mouse.

I fully agree that fitting a FULL desktop class PC into a 750g package is pretty incredible. I also marvel at the thinness, especially with the keyboard which is pretty awesome. I understand why many choose the ipad, beautiful screen, battery life, lightness. But personally I could never ever handicap myself by going back to an ipad.

 

[derekamoss]

I understand why many choose the ipad, beautiful screen, battery life, lightness. But personally I could never ever handicap myself by going back to an ipad.

Amen to that!

 

[Beavix]

I bought a Surface Pro 4 a couple of days ago. I don't yet have a type cover so I've been using it only as a tablet. It works very well. This is a great device for people like me who use Adobe CC apps or need the full version of Office. I like my 12.9" iPad Pro but the Surface is way more useful to me.
[doublepost=1480667730][/doublepost]

I know SP4 addresses some limitation, but trackpad, keyboard, lapability are still a problem, and as long as powerfull app remain legacy winn32 app that require me to "transform" my device the pain will remain.

I've only used a SP4 not the older versions but I'm pretty sure they improved it a lot. The versatility of the SP4 is amazing.

 

[M. Gustave]

I fully agree that fitting a FULL desktop class PC into a 750g package is pretty incredible.

'Desktop class'?! LOL. Let's be clear, if an actual desktop computer had the specs and price of the Surface, nobody would buy it.

 

[Beavix]

'Desktop class'?! LOL. Let's be clear, if an actual desktop computer had the specs and price of the Surface, nobody would buy it.

This is true for all laptops and tablets. Lousy, overpriced products

 

[spinedoc77]

'Desktop class'?! LOL. Let's be clear, if an actual desktop computer had the specs and price of the Surface, nobody would buy it.

Yep desktop class. You know why? Because it can run desktop programs. It's not rocket science, actually it's stupidly obvious. I'd expect the price to be higher because so much is fit into such a small package.

 

[0lf]

The versatility of the SP4 is amazing.

For me, it is not a question of versatility but how well it does what I do most. Having multiple devices is a small penalty if the devices talk well to each other.
But yes, for someone who value versatility, Surface is a great device.

Yep desktop class.[...] Because it can run desktop programs.

My core M macbook run desktop applications, I am not calling it desktop class.

 

[M. Gustave]

Yep desktop class. You know why? Because it can run desktop programs. It's not rocket science, actually it's stupidly obvious.

That's a desktop operating system, not "desktop class". Stupidly obvious.

 

[burgman]

That's a desktop operating system, not "desktop class". Stupidly obvious.

Pretty funny when posters attempt to push a one size fits all definition of what a "class " of device is. What exactly defines a desktop class machine to you?

 

[M. Gustave]

Pretty funny when posters attempt to push a one size fits all definition of what a "class " of device is. What exactly defines a desktop class machine to you?

Intel Core with greater than 45 watt TDP, 8GB RAM minimum. Ports up the ying yang. In other words, it's a build that doesn't care about form factor or power usage.

In case you think I'm trying to "push a one size fits all definition of what 'class' a device is", Intel themselves divide the processors into "mobile" and "desktop" classes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors

 

[Michael Goff]

Intel Core with greater than 45 watt TDP, 8GB RAM minimum. Ports up the ying yang. In other words, it's a build that doesn't care about form factor or power usage.

In case you think I'm trying to "push a one size fits all definition of what 'class' a device is", Intel themselves divide the processors into "mobile" and "desktop" classes:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i7_microprocessors

So, basically, you go by marketing?

 

[M. Gustave]

So, basically, you go by marketing?

No, they go by horsepower. Did you even read my post? Do you know what TDP is?

 

[Michael Goff]

No, they go by horsepower. Did you even read my post? Do you know what TDP is?

Yes. I know what TDP is. Do you know how irrelevant it is in terms of what people actually do with their computers? Is your main metric power use or that Intel calls it desktop/mobile? And why are either relevant?