Why I cancelled my MacBook Pro 13" M1 Order

[deeddawg]

It just dawned on me this is like the charger with the iPhone. Apple has data on how many ports are in use on the devices they ship. I’m sure they make a calculated decision to say 87% of users are fine with 2. If we give a premium config 2 more we can jack the price and justify. This will upset 3% of consumers but if they leave Apple over it, we are still positive cash by the premium sales.

Let's not forget that Apple was offering both two-port and four-port Macbook Pro 13" options long before Tuesday.

At this point they're still offering both options; the two-port is M1 and the four-port is Intel.

In the future I'd expect the four-port MBPs to transition to ARM as well.

 

[bill-p]

The MacBook Pro M1 only supports 1 external screen using Thunderbolt. That's a huge turn off, especially during pandemic because I was just thinking of getting another UltraFine 4K.

Just to say... Apple's specs have been misleading in the past. They say the 2014 13" Pro should only be able to support up to 2 displays, plus its own internal monitor. So... 3, right?

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Mid 2014) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

Well...

As long as the OS supports it, and there is no hard-capped limit due to any weird reason, I'm quite certain you can connect 2 monitors.

Another point is... the 1 display limit applies because the 13" Pro has to support its own internal monitor, right? What if you close the lid?

Note that the Mac Mini explicitly says it supports 2 monitors, 1 at 6K and the other at up to 4K.

Mac mini (M1, 2020) - Technical specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

If you're not running the 6K monitor, I'd think there should be bandwidth for multiple displays.

 

[ha1o2surfer]

I have a feeling more of these "gotchas" will crop up as review units arrive. This is a 1st gen product so this is to be expected.


given how well CPUs like the core 2 duo survive the test of time, if an arm mac can get longer support than its intel conterparts then it might be worth it.

 

[ha1o2surfer]

Just to say... Apple's specs have been misleading in the past. They say the 2014 13" Pro should only be able to support up to 2 displays, plus its own internal monitor. So... 3, right?

MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Mid 2014) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

Well...

As long as the OS supports it, and there is no hard-capped limit due to any weird reason, I'm quite certain you can connect 2 monitors.

Another point is... the 1 display limit applies because the 13" Pro has to support its own internal monitor, right? What if you close the lid?

Note that the Mac Mini explicitly says it supports 2 monitors, 1 at 6K and the other at up to 4K.

Mac mini (M1, 2020) - Technical specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

If you're not running the 6K monitor, I'd think there should be bandwidth for multiple displays.

Its a hardware limitation of the Intel GPU. Hes using a USB to HDMI adapter which doesn't use the Intel GPU. If you close the lid, you can have 3 external monitors no problem

 

[MK500]

• The MacBook Pro M1 only supports 1 external screen using Thunderbolt. That's a huge turn off, especially during pandemic because I was just thinking of getting another UltraFine 4K.

This is potentially a huge problem for me, and I strongly considered cancelling my order when I found this. It would be completely mitigated for me if it is possible to have dual displays when in clamshell mode. I'm not sure we will know this for certain until someone tries it. I will certainly do so when mine arrives between the 25th and 27th and report back. I have dual 1440p displays.

• There are only two Thunderbolt/USB 4 ports, versus the four on my current Mac. I'm concerned they might have bandwidth issue as well (since Apple only included 2 instead of the four on my current MacBook Pro.
• Windows ARM virtualization is still unclear. I'm not ready yet to make the jump not knowing if/when it will arrive.

I do not see these as significant issues. 40Gbps should be plenty of bandwidth for the vast vast majority of MacBook users, and I think 2 thunderbolt plus headphone jacks is enough ports (of course more would be nice, but I'm used to docks at this point).

I think most people realize virtualization is going to take a big hit because we have moved off Intel. If virtualization is a big part of your workflow, you really need an Intel Mac for some time to come. The Mac I use for virtualization has 64GB RAM. That said, it's likely some level of virtualization will be at least possible; and possibly "good enough" for some use cases.

 

[ha1o2surfer]

I sure hope apple doesn't start dumping features of lower end computers like display support so you are forced to buy a pro. lol that is such an apple thing to do

 

[acidfast7_redux]

Hello everyone! Just thought I would share the reasons why I cancelled my Apple Silicon MacBook Pro order.

I ordered it as soon as the store opened after the keynote, but as I read the documents, I discovered many little things that annoyed me to the point of making me wait for the next iteration:

• The MacBook Pro M1 only supports 1 external screen using Thunderbolt. That's a huge turn off, especially during pandemic because I was just thinking of getting another UltraFine 4K.
• There are only two Thunderbolt/USB 4 ports, versus the four on my current Mac. I'm concerned they might have bandwidth issue as well (since Apple only included 2 instead of the four on my current MacBook Pro.
• Windows ARM virtualization is still unclear. I'm not ready yet to make the jump not knowing if/when it will arrive.

Did anyone end up cancelling their order?

jerk post deleted

 

[ha1o2surfer]

So you’d be looking to run Windows on Arm and relying on its ability to emulate x86? Could be awhile before Microsoft lets that happen.

This already happens fine though? lookup windows 10 running on the raspberry pi running x86 apps

 

[bill-p]

Its a hardware limitation of the Intel GPU. Hes using a USB to HDMI adapter which doesn't use the Intel GPU. If you close the lid, you can have 3 external monitors no problem

Yeah, but Apple also claims the same limitation with the 2018 13" Pro.

MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2018, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

support.apple.com

And this one can clearly support 3 external monitors, plus its own internal display.

So it's not the first time Apple's own specs don't agree with their own hardware. Someone in marketing is probably just too lazy to write "up to 2 if", "up to 3 if", "up to 4 if", etc...

Anyways, I'm just saying: it's highly likely the 13" Pro may also support up to 2 external monitors if the lid is closed.

 

[deeddawg]

This is potentially a huge problem for me, and I strongly considered cancelling my order when I found this. It would be completely mitigated for me if it is possible to have dual displays when in clamshell mode. I'm not sure we will know this for certain until someone tries it. I will certainly do so when mine arrives between the 25th and 27th and report back. I have dual 1440p displays.

While I agree that we won't know for sure until it's tested in the wild, I will say that I reached out to Caldigit asking about what they knew of this in relation to running dual monitors off of my TS3 Plus thunderbolt dock in clamshell mode.

They also say just one external display.

I hope they're mistaken, but I'm going to assume they're correct until/unless I see evidence to the contrary.

 

[Sanpete]

Sound more like you shouldn't have ordered in the first place as all of the information was known pre-order.

What am I missing here?

1. Someone didn't read all the tech info
2. Someone ordered
3. Someone read the tech info
4. Someone cancelled order
5. No harm, no foul
6. Trolling without an initial order confirmation

Why would I can an order the researched and executed? My time is not free/unlimited.

1. Someone didn't read the thread
2. Someone posted

 

[ADGrant]

This already happens fine though? lookup windows 10 running on the raspberry pi running x86 apps

You have a link to an example of Windows 10 on Raspberry PI.

 

[dmccloud]

Apple should drop the "pro" from their pro line, they are barely inline with a MacBook. No "pro" machine should be running the same processor as an air or mac mini, and still have integrated graphics. The I/O is a joke, just form over function.

Go look up the differences between unified memory like Apple is using (and AMD has been striving towards for years) and the "traditional" iGPU approach. Comparing Apple's approach to Intel's is like comparing apples to bananas. Furthermore, just because these machines run the same processor does not mean they are running at the same base clocks, especially given that the MBA is passively cooled rather than actively.

 

[ha1o2surfer]

You have a link to an example of Windows 10 on Raspberry PI.

I don't want the thread to go off topic but here is a PI4 running windows 10 which supports x86 apps. Windows idles at 1-2% on a pi cpu lol if everyone thinks windows is CPU heavy, this proves otherwise

but this is just a slow PI cpu at 1.5ghz. Once they get a GPU driver written it will actually be useable. The crazy part is, it can even run Direct X games (not well) but it can.

the future is arm but maybe in a couple years!

EDIT: windows 10 arm running in a VM on linux on arm.. lol if a PI can do it, the M1 chip will be able to no problem.

I think in 2 years time, we will be like.. why x86_64?

 

[ADGrant]

Apple should drop the "pro" from their pro line, they are barely inline with a MacBook. No "pro" machine should be running the same processor as an air or mac mini, and still have integrated graphics. The I/O is a joke, just form over function.

The 13" Intel MBPs have integrated graphics.

 

[MK500]

I don't want the thread to go off topic but here is a PI4 running windows 10 which supports x86 apps. Windows idles at 1-2% on a pi cpu lol if everyone thinks windows is CPU heavy, this proves otherwise

but this is just a slow PI cpu at 1.5ghz. Once they get a GPU driver written it will actually be useable. The crazy part is, it can even run Direct X games (not well) but it can.

the future is arm but maybe in a couple years!

Also note that my Pi 4 2GB that cost $43 on Amazon has two HDMI ports and is currently driving my 2 1440p displays without problems. Seriously. If Apple really screwed up multiple display support in clamshell mode I’m going to be extremely annoyed. And they should be extremely embarrassed.

 

[ha1o2surfer]

Also note that my Pi 4 2GB that cost $43 on Amazon has two HDMI ports and is currently driving my 2 1440p displays without problems. Seriously. If Apple really screwed up multiple display support in clamshell mode I’m going to be extremely annoyed. And they should be extremely embarrassed.

oh shoot that's a good point..

 

[Phil A.]

• Windows ARM virtualization is still unclear. I'm not ready yet to make the jump not knowing if/when it will arrive.

I'm working on the assumption that Windows virtualisation will never be an option on AS macs.

I've given myself 3 years to remove my dependency on Windows (my only requirement now is to support customers we have on .net framework applications - during the next 3 years we will be looking to migrate them to .net core apps which we use Visual Studio for Mac for) and hopefully by the the time I'm looking to upgrade my current macs I will no longer have any need for Windows at all

Even if Windows does arrive eventually, I certainly wouldn't advise buying an AS mac now if you need Windows support because it's likely to be a long time (if ever) and even then it will likely be Arm Windows which doesn't support x86 apps very well (limited to 32 bit apps and very slow): There isn't even an Arm version of Office for Windows available which gives you an indication of how much important Microsoft place on Arm Windows

 

[cmaier]

This already happens fine though? lookup windows 10 running on the raspberry pi running x86 apps

MS doesn’t license windows 10 on arm, though. Only for their own products.

 

[ha1o2surfer]

MS doesn’t license windows 10 on arm, though. Only for their own products.

right, it's all a hack

 

[GiantKiwi]

I'm working on the assumption that Windows virtualisation will never be an option on AS macs.

I've given myself 3 years to remove my dependency on Windows (my only requirement now is to support customers we have on .net framework applications - during the next 3 years we will be looking to migrate them to .net core apps which we use Visual Studio for Mac for) and hopefully by the the time I'm looking to upgrade my current macs I will no longer have any need for Windows at all

Even if Windows does arrive eventually, I certainly wouldn't advise buying an AS mac now if you need Windows support because it's likely to be a long time (if ever) and even then it will likely be Arm Windows which doesn't support x86 apps very well (limited to 32 bit apps and very slow): There isn't even an Arm version of Office for Windows available which gives you an indication of how much important Microsoft place on Arm Windows

Also OP is needing Windows for MS Access to work. That PoS is on it's last legs already, and companies should already be progressing to replace it, certainly no excuse making allowances for future use of it.

 

[Fomalhaut]

I cancelled mine as well just because of the 1 external monitor. Shame too, I was really looking forward to Apple Silicon.

Do DisplayLink docks work with multiple externals?

 

[cmaier]

right, it's all a hack

That’s all I’m saying. Nothing technically prevents it, but anyone who is waiting is really waiting for microsoft and apple to reach some sort of agreement, which may or may not ever happen.

 

[Fomalhaut]

Because that defies logic. If you're too busy to pay attention when buying hardware, you shouldn't be buying it in the first place.

A quick pre-order makes sense to get an early position in the queue. AFAIK, there is no penalty for cancelling an order, and you aren’t charged until it ships, so there’s nothing to lose by this strategy, and plenty to gain.

I waited for the first benchmarks before ordering an Air, and got a delivery date of 1-9 December. I was late to the party.

 

[acidfast7_redux]

1. Someone didn't read the thread
2. Someone posted

You're right that was a jerk post my me.

I will relax.