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phrehdd

Contributor
Oct 25, 2008
4,515
1,467
I like these fluff threads. Yes, we can draw a complete campaign and business model from a video. I suppose it makes sense since many these days can barely write a thought in a complete sentence as the text on their cell phones. - Sigh
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
I never knew who Tim Cook was and for a reason... he was nobody. Many times in organizations you will see a "nobody" on top, easy to manipulate.
He was quite far from a nobody. Certainly many people might not know about all kinds of things or people, it certainly doesn't make those things or people inconsequential or easy to manipulate somehow.
 
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smacrumon

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 15, 2016
2,683
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I saw that post, but given the tone, content and veracity of how you criticize apple, its hard to think you're not flip flopping and contradicting yourself quite a bit.


He may have an understanding of Apple and he may not. My point is that you communicated that you came to this realization based on a 4 minute video in which he sat there without uttering a word. To be honest, coming to any realization of someone's grasp of any topic of just sitting there is preposterous.

This is why instructors grade students on how well they interact in class (either verbally or in written form) and they cannot come to a determination that a student understand the material without feedback from that student. Like wise we have Cook who just sits there, but you propose based on that video you realize he gets all of apple's magical qualities.

Plus in prior posts you try to justify your position by saying issues that you have with Apple are not Cook's fault or decisions. But they are, as he's in charge of Apple, don't you think he's the one to give final approval of making a phone thinner, or selling a MBP with a haswell chipset in 2016? You cannot praise him for all the good Apple has done, and not consider him responsible for the mis-steps Apple has also done.


I agree to a point, his performance has been steady, but many people expect more from apple, not just more of the same.

Wall street would definitely react negatively, but if they had someone in mind to bring Apple to the next level, it could actually be better. Take Microsoft - Ballmer didn't do a horrible job as CEO, though he was a buffoon in many people's eyes (and he made some significant missteps such as buying Nokia), yet under Nadella MS has improved and flousihed significantly. While Apple is a different company and facing different issues, I use MS to illustrate that changing of a CEO is not always a bad thing.
Well a flip flop would be saying something like I hate iPhone 6/6s, then tomorrow saying I love it, then next week saying I hate it again. I'm consistent on individual products and services. It's not all or nothing for me, each item gets an individual look in and individual assessment. Maybe I should cheer more, but others here are cheering. I also think my efforts are better focused on narrowing in on the issues as I view them to be.

Yes, but people don't just give feedback verbally or written, they give it through expression, emotion, action. We can not discount those aspects otherwise we develop a completely skewed idea of an individual's views and values. The question was being answered by Steve Jobs, but Tim Cook clearly communicates through expressions exactly his own frank feelings on the absurdity on the sticker nonsense, which is representative of a number of Apple's core values.

It would be insanity for Tim Cook to leave Apple. Tim is completely fit for the position. He is much a different CEO than Jobs, but just as capable. The CEO should only change if they are unfit. Calls for change is an attempt to destabilise the business.

Under Cook, my favourite iPad mini 4 was born. So some good, some bad. I'll keep criticising the bad until it becomes good. Now, if the CEO doesn't listen to at least some of the criticism, then we have a problem. And believe me, Apple do read these forums. If they didn't, it would be totally remiss of them. It's free unvetted feedback from one part of the user base.

I don't know a lot about the MS situation as I'm not close to that scene anymore, but it appears a lot of copying, imitation and just poor garbage is still being put out into the world by them even under the current management.

Maybe we just don't see eye to eye, that's fine, at least we do have an appreciation for the Mickey watch face though.
 

ProjectManager101

Suspended
Jul 12, 2015
458
722
It seems to be a plausible observation.
I might be wrong, but somehow I have a (strong) feeling that Ive can influence Cook the way he wants.

But you have a boards of directors that are there for the money... many people. Old people who just want money to retire. The innovation and creativity... bah, "been there, done that, no that fun as it used to".
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Tim Cook ≠ Steve Jobs.
Agreed, I've never seen anyone say Cook and Jobs were on equal footing in what (and how) they ran apple.

Well if you type that, you must follow it up with who does =
So far no one. Just because Cook is no Steve Jobs, means there is someone else out there who is. There may be other gifted visionaries who can lead apple in a better way then cook, but they would never be another Steve Jobs.

Compare the social/charitable/political aspect of Cook's Apple vs. Job's Apple. There's quite a difference between the two, just on that one point. Also consider how Cook treats people and interacts with them, vs. Jobs where there were many reports of him bringing people to tears.

To bring it to a finer point, Jobs was a visionary, who got people to excel and do things they themselves didn't think was possible, but was not always the nicest, where as Cook focuses more on the dollars and cents of things and making sure apple can be as profitable as possible.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,495
Agreed, I've never seen anyone say Cook and Jobs were on equal footing in what (and how) they ran apple.


So far no one. Just because Cook is no Steve Jobs, means there is someone else out there who is. There may be other gifted visionaries who can lead apple in a better way then cook, but they would never be another Steve Jobs.

Compare the social/charitable/political aspect of Cook's Apple vs. Job's Apple. There's quite a difference between the two, just on that one point. Also consider how Cook treats people and interacts with them, vs. Jobs where there were many reports of him bringing people to tears.

To bring it to a finer point, Jobs was a visionary, who got people to excel and do things they themselves didn't think was possible, but was not always the nicest, where as Cook focuses more on the dollars and cents of things and making sure apple can be as profitable as possible.

Agreed. Cook, to me, is a strict businessman who minds the financial part of Apple and can accrue for the Company's earnings and profit to the penny. In some respects, I like to see him as an engineer (Maybe not everyone agree's)

And to your point, Jobs was a visionary. He saw where the future was traveling before anyone else did. Jobs was indifferent to others feelings for him, his focus was on his work soley and he never tried to hide this. In some respects, I also viewed Jobs as a salesman, especially on stage during Key Notes, which Cook is not a salesman in my opinion.
 
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Cineplex

macrumors 6502a
Jan 1, 2016
741
2,012
I have 100% confidence in Tim's ability to ship watchbands.

To actually put the company back on track....not so much. I've been yawning at keynotes for years under his leadership and not rushing home to see them....so that says everything about his leadership. Sometimes I forget he is the Apple CEO and not some politician on a quest.

This meme says my opinion the best.

tim-cook-is-having-a-good-time-42779.png
 

toph2toast

macrumors 6502a
Feb 24, 2011
793
712
I also think my efforts are better focused on narrowing in on the issues as I view them to be.

Do you seriously think that your efforts in calling Apple out on bad products/services on this forum on being read, interpreted and analyzed by Apple employees? If that's the case, I'm afraid I've got some bad news...
 
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smacrumon

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 15, 2016
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Do you seriously think that your efforts in calling Apple out on bad products/services on this forum on being read, interpreted and analyzed by Apple employees? If that's the case, I'm afraid I've got some bad news...
I think it is a little naive to suggest that not one Apple employee reads the forums to gauge sentiment or derive feedback. Considering controlled leaks to sites like these are important to manufacturers like Apple, there would be at the very least a small team dedicated to online research of forums like these.
 

grahamperrin

macrumors 601
Jun 8, 2007
4,942
648
Certainly in the past there was some attention to Apple Discussions (that's how I was invited to AppleSeed). And I'm certain that some posters to MacRumors Forums work in, or for, Apple.

Whether there's any dedicated team, or a research-oriented approach to sites such as MacRumors, I have no idea.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,165
25,297
Gotta be in it to win it
I think it is a little naive to suggest that not one Apple employee reads the forums to gauge sentiment or derive feedback. Considering controlled leaks to sites like these are important to manufacturers like Apple, there would be at the very least a small team dedicated to online research of forums like these.
All companies have social media departments to analyze the internet streams. And I do think some of what is said here can be really constructive ideas that IMO apple does implement as it sees consistent feedback across sources. But I would think it would tend to ignore the "bashing" of the arm-chair CEO types, who know how to run the company better than the management team.
 

toph2toast

macrumors 6502a
Feb 24, 2011
793
712
I think it is a little naive to suggest that not one Apple employee reads the forums to gauge sentiment or derive feedback. Considering controlled leaks to sites like these are important to manufacturers like Apple, there would be at the very least a small team dedicated to online research of forums like these.

I never suggested employees don't ready the posts/comments section... heck Macrumors even posts stats showing new versions of iOS access the site before they are released to developers for testing. But if you think Apple cares about your specific feedback (which, based off of responses, few - if anyone - agrees with your views) then you are wasting your time. Especially when you mentioned you "I have two businesses, both with an R&D department. I participate in both." - wouldn't your time be better spent serving those ventures?
 
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smacrumon

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 15, 2016
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I never suggested employees don't ready the posts/comments section... heck Macrumors even posts stats showing new versions of iOS access the site before they are released to developers for testing. But if you think Apple cares about your specific feedback (which, based off of responses, few - if anyone - agrees with your views) then you are wasting your time. Especially when you mentioned you "I have two businesses, both with an R&D department. I participate in both." - wouldn't your time be better spent serving those ventures?
Sorry, maybe I read your reply incorrectly. That said, I really don't think my time is wasted posting here. I'm pretty certain about that. With respect, maybe your time might be better spent not telling me what I should post or when I should be posting. I can walk and chew gum.
 
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toph2toast

macrumors 6502a
Feb 24, 2011
793
712
Sorry, maybe I read your reply incorrectly. That said, I really don't think my time is wasted posting here. I'm pretty certain about that. With respect, maybe your time might be better spent not telling me what I should post or when I should be posting. I can walk and chew gum.

Again, never said your posts are a waste of time, I said your feedback. Two mutually exclusive things. There have been things you could do through jailbreaking your iPhone since the 3GS came out that Apple only recently released as a built in iOS feature. If they were truly listening to Macrumors members and reading threads on this site, those changes would have/should have happened sooner. These aren't earth shattering things - such as having a built in flashlight app or responding to texts from the lock screen.

I was simply providing a suggestion.

Cheers
 

smacrumon

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jan 15, 2016
2,683
4,011
Again, never said your posts are a waste of time, I said your feedback. Two mutually exclusive things. There have been things you could do through jailbreaking your iPhone since the 3GS came out that Apple only recently released as a built in iOS feature. If they were truly listening to Macrumors members and reading threads on this site, those changes would have/should have happened sooner. These aren't earth shattering things - such as having a built in flashlight app or responding to texts from the lock screen.

I was simply providing a suggestion.

Cheers
Cheerio and good day.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
I think it is a little naive to suggest that not one Apple employee reads the forums to gauge sentiment or derive feedback. Considering controlled leaks to sites like these are important to manufacturers like Apple, there would be at the very least a small team dedicated to online research of forums like these.
There may very well be a social media team, but I highly doubt Apple has employees who's job is to read and interact with members at MacRumors. From what I know, Apple actually wants you to avoid these places when you start working for them.

Posting Apple's short comings, with the idea that they'll hear you and alter their directions is fairly naive. If you feel strongly about something, then tell them directly. http://www.apple.com/feedback/
 

toph2toast

macrumors 6502a
Feb 24, 2011
793
712
There may very well be a social media team, but I highly doubt Apple has employees who's job is to read and interact with members at MacRumors. From what I know, Apple actually wants you to avoid these places when you start working for them.

Posting Apple's short comings, with the idea that they'll hear you and alter their directions is fairly naive. If you feel strongly about something, then tell them directly. http://www.apple.com/feedback/

Couldn't agree more!
 

Pulpdiction

macrumors newbie
Oct 6, 2010
28
21
Apple has lost its was under Cook for me, he's not delivered anything on the technology side that is a game changer - apple watch - so what? He has to prove he can deliver on the innovation side - not just as an accountant. I'm not saying its easy, but much of what I see in the market is apples competitors catching up with them or outstripping them in some areas - apple TV - dog of a product - and apple having little to come back with. Where is the step change and market leadership?

Couple this with some of the news stories over not unlocking phones or accounts and I think a lot of people re becoming disillusioned with apple and it's corporate values.
 
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forbegos34

macrumors member
Jun 12, 2016
80
55
I'm not inconsistent. When I see a product or service I think is terrible from a highly resourced company such as Apple, I make it known, just like I applaud them when something great is made available. I can both like and dislike aspects of Apple. I dislike iPhone 6/6s because it is a product that has many compromises built into the design from the exterior into the interior. But I support Tim Cook because under his leadership aspects of Apple have been great even though other aspects have been poor. I base my discussions on the merits of the items being discussed, I'm not an Apple fan boy but I'm not an Apple hater either. My comments are more nuanced than that.

You sign as Apple Evangelist, but you are not a fanboy? You sir, are a very inconsistent person.
[doublepost=1548919719][/doublepost]
Please see my justification earlier to help reconcile the comments https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/why-i-have-confidence-in-tim-cook.1987998/page-2#post-23244454

Tim has a great understanding of why Apple is special, he has been there since 1998.

My greatest issue, in light of no real reason for Tim to go, if Tim were to be replaced, I think we would see Apple become destabilised -- that would be worse than any little complaint I or others might have.

The fact that he's been there since 1998, doesn't at all prove he has understanding of what makes Apple special. Cook is an operations man, not an innovator.
 
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