Why I'm Waiting to buy a MacBook Pro.....

[magicmonkey]

Interesting thread. It seems to me that it comes down to what you want to use your Laptop for. Personaly I want a laptop for its mobility.

Not nessesarily to do with the MacBook but in general:

Features I want to see in a laptop are a good battery; 6-8 hours which doesn't degrade rapidly. As Apple haven't made a big noise about a better batery in the MacBook pro I'm assuming they haven't improved things greatly.

A good screen, if I'm using the machine in different light I want to be able to see the screen. If the MacBook Pro has a similar screen to Apples cinema displays I will be very impressed.

Solid construction.

Personaly I'm waiting for the iBook replacements to be released to see what features are left out.

There will always be a new technology around the corner and another Apple rumour....

 

[w00master]

Blu-ray is not going to happen this year

All the hopes for Macs w/ Blu-ray are going to have to wait until *AT LEAST* 2007. Why? Price.

w00master

 

[sethypoo]

Also if you think DVD media is on the way out I think you need to look again. DVD players are just NOW starting to ship as standard in most low end corp hardware. Actually that started about 2 years ago. Up til then CD drives were still the norm. Until BR hits critical mass don't expect DVD hardware to go anywhere. Until you can take your BR disks and be at least (random number here.) be 60% sure that the client you are sending the disk to is going to be able to play it all it will be is a very expensive archive medium that can be done on a DVD drive albeit with more disks. In point of fact I fully expect HD-DVD vs. BR wars to drag this out until late 2007. During which time you are going to see both camps start throwing their wares out to OEM's. Its going to be a standards nightmare for years. All the while DVD is here NOW.

I want it known that I never said that DVD was "on its way out." That is not what I mean at all!

Blu-Ray technology is advanced, but it's along the same lines as DVD technology. The blue-violet laser that they use in the Blu-Ray drives is no larger, physically, than the red lasers used in standard DVD drives. In terms of size, it's a matter of fitting a red and a blue laser into a slim line drive, which they have done and which we will see sometime in the next year.

The technology behind optical drive (which is what a Blu-Ray drive is) is not new. Remember when CD's first came out? Back then, they were cutting edge. Now, we're just changing the wavelength of a laser to fit more data on to those same discs.

 

[sethypoo]

If I were to wait, this "unknown product" is what I would be waiting for, and not this "Blue-Ray in a laptop in 2006" that some folks are dreaming up.

Well, duh. I know that the "unknown product" that's coming is not a laptop with a Blu-Ray drive in it! Any idiot, even me, could tell you that.

Why not dream? Why are you so against a BD-ROM in a laptop? It's just better technology in a better product.

 

[SiliconAddict]

I want it known that I never said that DVD was "on its way out." That is not what I mean at all!

Blu-Ray technology is advanced, but it's along the same lines as DVD technology. The blue-violet laser that they use in the Blu-Ray drives is no larger, physically, than the red lasers used in standard DVD drives. In terms of size, it's a matter of fitting a red and a blue laser into a slim line drive, which they have done and which we will see sometime in the next year.

The technology behind optical drive (which is what a Blu-Ray drive is) is not new. Remember when CD's first came out? Back then, they were cutting edge. Now, we're just changing the wavelength of a laser to fit more data on to those same discs.

OK How else am I to interpret. "The DVD is on its way out."

Direct quote of you. If that isn't what you meant you should have been more specific. A media and a format can't be "on the way out" if the next generation format hasn't even shipped yet. And again I counter it won't be "on the way out" for years. Heck does or does not the venerable CD-RW drive still exist and flourish in the desktop laptop scene. It hasn't gone anywhere and DVD burners have been around for what? 3-5 years? As for the tech behind the drive. Umm yes it is new. Going to a different wavelength is no small feat. Not only do they need to ship drives with two lasers now to be backwards compatible they also need new media as well. Its like saying the Core Duo isn't a new processor to the 486 because it acts the same basic way which is wrong.

 

[MacsomJRR]

When Apple announced their first Intel based laptop, I was extremely excited. No, I was ecstatic! Finally, the rather stagnant PowerBook line would see a worthy update. And that's just what we got, the MacBook Pro, an incredible leap in the right direction. I must say that for those early adopters who have already ordered their MacBook Pro's: congrats and good luck! You'll be getting a great machine very soon.

However, there are a few things I'm waiting for. Although the MacBook Pro is a leap in the right direction, I'd rather not buy until I see where that leap lands. There are some technologies that are soon to be the latest and greatest things that the MacBook Pro does not yet have. They are as follows:

Blu-Ray disc technology
802.11n Wi-Fi capability

The DVD is on its way out. Within the next year, quite possibly less, I think that we will see a Blu-Ray disc drive in a revision of the MacBook Pro. Most of us know that Apple is a partner in the Blu-Ray Disc Association, and that the kind of storage Blu-Ray discs (BD-ROM's) have is amazing. I mean, 25GB on a single layer disc? 50GB on a dual layer disc? Compared to a dual layered DVD's maximum of 8.5GB, this is a staggering leap in technology. And I want it in my MacBook Pro.

The new 802.11n spec is the next big thing in wi-fi communication. Currently, the fastest standard is 802.11g, aka Airport Extreme. Airport Extreme tops out at 54Mbps. This is plenty fast for surfing the Internet even on a T1 line, but it can't hold a candle to what the future holds for "fast" high speed Internet and home networking. Also, and this is the big reason, you can't stream HD content wirelessly with Airport Extreme. 802.11n can stream HD content, since it allows wireless speed of up to a theoretical 540Mbps. Also, an 802.11n signal can go farther from its base station than a 802.11g signal.

These two technologies I very much want to see in the second, but more likely third or fourth revisions of the MacBook Pro line. When they do appear, I'll be there to buy. So, here's what my ideal MacBook Pro would be:

* 2.0Ghz Intel Merom processor
* 120GB SATA 7200RPM hard drive
* 1GB DDR2 SD-RAM
* 1Ghz front side bus
* 15.4" display with 1440 x 960 resolution
* 8x Blu-Ray disc drive, able to read and write BD-ROM's, DVD's and CD-ROM's
* 802.11n/b/g Airport card

Again, this isn't coming anytime soon. Give it a year or less, but I really do think we will see something very close to this.

And I'm waiting until AFTER that because then it will be even cooler!

C'mon.

 

[sethypoo]

And I'm waiting until AFTER that because then it will be even cooler!

C'mon.

 

[sethypoo]

OK How else am I to interpret. "The DVD is on its way out."

Direct quote of you. If that isn't what you meant you should have been more specific. A media and a format can't be "on the way out" if the next generation format hasn't even shipped yet. And again I counter it won't be "on the way out" for years. Heck does or does not the venerable CD-RW drive still exist and flourish in the desktop laptop scene. It hasn't gone anywhere and DVD burners have been around for what? 3-5 years? As for the tech behind the drive. Umm yes it is new. Going to a different wavelength is no small feat. Not only do they need to ship drives with two lasers now to be backwards compatible they also need new media as well. Its like saying the Core Duo isn't a new processor to the 486 because it acts the same basic way which is wrong.

Sorry I didn't s-p-e-l-l it out for you. By "on the way out," I mean the next generation of optical media is setting itself up to take over. I expect that there will always be bargain piles of DVD's at Wal-Mart for us to sift through; but I also think that Blu-Ray is the next big thing In five years, +/-, there will be few DVD's manufactured compared to Blu-Ray discs.

It's not new technology. Get that out of your head! It's still optical, is it not? It's still a laser too, yes? Sounds optical to me, and changing the wavelength of a laser in this day and age is a small feat. Getting two lasers into a slim line drive for backwards compatability will be the challenge.

The CD-ROM drive is a wonderful thing that's just evolving. I love CD's, don't get me wrong, but I still want cutting edge on my next Apple laptop.

 

[QCassidy352]

There is. The 12" and 17" models are obvious, so lets not mention those again. They're coming soon.

That's not a given. There has been plenty of speculation that the 12" is EOL, which would be a damn shame as I think it's the best of the lot. And even the 17" - sure it's *probably* coming soon, but why wouldn't it be released already? The engineering would have to be at least as easy as the 15" and probably easier, so if they're coming out with one, what's the delay?

 

[PeterKG]

The delay is an entirely new case design. The Macbook just released is just a PR stop gap.

 

[verb]

Seth,

I definitely appreciate your well thought out post. At some level this entire thread comes down to "where are you in the upgrade cycle, and how much money do you have to dedicate to computer purchases?" If the computer you have does not currently fill your needs then upgrade. The pace of progress is ever quickening so there will always be something better around the corner. There is no *perfect* time to buy. There will never be an announcement from Steve saying "we've packed all the innovations we've got for the next 2 years into this computer so you might as well buy it because nothing better is coming out for a LONG time".

Yes, Blu-Ray is largely about movies, movies that I want to be able to watch on my MacBook Pro. And Blu-Ray has everything to do with data storage. I would love to have a rewritable Blu-Ray disc to save many of the Final Cut Pro movie segments I work on. I don't even want to get into how many photos I'd like to back up on a single disc. Also, I want to be able to easily back up my 100GB hard drive to a single 100GB four layer Blu-Ray disc

I would also like to be able to play Blu-Ray discs on my laptop. Unfortunately that technology doesn't exist yet outside of research labs. As for writing, I don't expect a laptop to be a good platform for writing Blu-Ray discs for quite some time. At the initial speeds, you would run out of batteries before the disc is completed. When the first Apple computers that support BD come out, I'll have to wonder if I should wait for faster Blu-Ray discs. Maybe HD-DVD will emerge as the winning standard so I should wait until those drives are incorporated in Apple hardware.




802.11n is not called WiMax, WiMax is 802.16. There's a difference. Regardless, both offer advantages of increased signal strength at longer ranges, and the ability to stream 1080p from one's MacBook Pro wirelessly to your HDTV. It doesn't matter what I can view on my MacBook Pro itself, it matters what I can stream to my entertainment system.

2,147,483,647 is a pretty number, but it's the wrong number: the correct number is 2,147,483,648 :rolleyes

Now...you hurt me Seth. I am really wounded about this. When I wrote this I didn't want to get too technical for the audience here. The largest positive number that you can represent with a signed 32 bit integer is the number I posted: 2,147,483,647. Because of the two's complement method of storing negative numbers in binary you can always store a larger (by one) negative number. Therefore the largest negative number you can store is -2,147,483,648. Using the words "largest" and "negative" in a sentence confuse the issue. Most software uses signed integers, but a programmer can opt to use unsigned in which the lowest number is 0 and the largest is 4,294,967,295.

Numbers don't matter here, only sheer performance matters, as in what the user can see.You can't say that a 64 bit processor is only used for caculating some obscure number of decimal points. That's not the point of 64 bit computing. The point is to be able to address large amounts of memory quickly and efficiently. The point is to have your applications run faster and encode quicker.

We definitely agree that numbers are not important here. The problem is that "64 bit" sounds twice as good as "32 bit" when that is a completely invalid comparison. 64 bit computing does allow you address large amounts of memory, but does not allow you to address it any quicker or more efficiently. As far as sheer performance goes, take any program you are currently using and compile it for a 64 bit CPU. It will probably not run appreciably faster. Over time, it is possible that programmers and then compilers will find ways of taking advantage of the larger registers in a 64 bit CPU to increase performance, but that is not immediate. There is a lot to talk about there. Ars Technica does a better job than I can so I'll reference them: http://arstechnica.com/cpu/03q1/x86-64/x86-64-1.html

That's a lot of mights, and that list of yours is also assuming that Intel is going to make the same mistakes they made with the Pentium 4. I don't think a company as large and as filled with brilliant minds will let that happen again.

You are probably right. I was just trying to point out that future chips are not a "done deal". They are speculation.

Out of your entire post, this is the one thing that makes sense to me. Well put, we will see a true revolution with quantum computing. Let's hope it happens in our lifetimes!

From a computer science perspective I whole heartedly agree. From a personal computing perspective I'm trying to figure out what a computer 1,000x faster on my desk would allow me to accomplish. Maybe that is why I'm not a futurist

 

[MRU]

I've ordered mine now..

New processors are always going to be released and yes Apple could d oa new case re-design, but I like the macbookpro design. My powerbook was lovely to look at and use. I'll no doubt be upgrading next year anyway

Not bothered about Blu-Ray because the war hasn't even begun between it and HD-DVD yet. Like other's I'll wait that one out - I got burnt with Philips DCC & Sony MiniDisc, and whilst Sony one the battle, neither won the war. MDisc no way near caught on as much as Sony expected, Tape was never replaced..

It's feasable that neither HD-DVD or Blu-Ray win and that a hybrid format my be born....

 

[oingoboingo]

"Do you deal with numbers larger than 2,147,483,647 often?"

Yes. Search for "Should I buy a 12" iBook or a 12" PowerBook?!?!".

 

[azzurri000]

When Apple announced their first Intel based laptop, I was extremely excited. No, I was ecstatic! Finally, the rather stagnant PowerBook line would see a worthy update. And that's just what we got, the MacBook Pro, an incredible leap in the right direction. I must say that for those early adopters who have already ordered their MacBook Pro's: congrats and good luck! You'll be getting a great machine very soon.

However, there are a few things I'm waiting for. Although the MacBook Pro is a leap in the right direction, I'd rather not buy until I see where that leap lands. There are some technologies that are soon to be the latest and greatest things that the MacBook Pro does not yet have. They are as follows:

Blu-Ray disc technology
802.11n Wi-Fi capability

The DVD is on its way out. Within the next year, quite possibly less, I think that we will see a Blu-Ray disc drive in a revision of the MacBook Pro. Most of us know that Apple is a partner in the Blu-Ray Disc Association, and that the kind of storage Blu-Ray discs (BD-ROM's) have is amazing. I mean, 25GB on a single layer disc? 50GB on a dual layer disc? Compared to a dual layered DVD's maximum of 8.5GB, this is a staggering leap in technology. And I want it in my MacBook Pro.

The new 802.11n spec is the next big thing in wi-fi communication. Currently, the fastest standard is 802.11g, aka Airport Extreme. Airport Extreme tops out at 54Mbps. This is plenty fast for surfing the Internet even on a T1 line, but it can't hold a candle to what the future holds for "fast" high speed Internet and home networking. Also, and this is the big reason, you can't stream HD content wirelessly with Airport Extreme. 802.11n can stream HD content, since it allows wireless speed of up to a theoretical 540Mbps. Also, an 802.11n signal can go farther from its base station than a 802.11g signal.

These two technologies I very much want to see in the second, but more likely third or fourth revisions of the MacBook Pro line. When they do appear, I'll be there to buy. So, here's what my ideal MacBook Pro would be:

* 2.0Ghz Intel Merom processor
* 120GB SATA 7200RPM hard drive
* 1GB DDR2 SD-RAM
* 1Ghz front side bus
* 15.4" display with 1440 x 960 resolution
* 8x Blu-Ray disc drive, able to read and write BD-ROM's, DVD's and CD-ROM's
* 802.11n/b/g Airport card

Again, this isn't coming anytime soon. Give it a year or less, but I really do think we will see something very close to this.

If one knew that these technologies were definitely coming soon than it would be a good reason to wait, but there is always something better on the horizon, so you may end up waiting forever.

 

[fangiotophia]

Seth,
Now...you hurt me Seth. I am really wounded about this. When I wrote this I didn't want to get too technical for the audience here. The largest positive number that you can represent with a signed 32 bit integer is the number I posted: 2,147,483,647. Because of the two's complement method of storing negative numbers in binary you can always store a larger (by one) negative number. Therefore the largest negative number you can store is -2,147,483,648. Using the words "largest" and "negative" in a sentence confuse the issue. Most software uses signed integers, but a programmer can opt to use unsigned in which the lowest number is 0 and the largest is 4,294,967,295.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. It is a pet peev of mine to not correct someone on this (even though it is such an insignificant thing). In any case, I can't see myself using numbers that large any time soon. I do website programming and it doesn't involve many large numbers. My PowerBook G4 does quite nicely.

From a computer science perspective I whole heartedly agree. From a personal computing perspective I'm trying to figure out what a computer 1,000x faster on my desk would allow me to accomplish. Maybe that is why I'm not a futurist

I can't wait until quantum computing reaches the consumer market. You may not be able to think of much to do, but I see picture quality realtime rendering ahead. Video games, video games, video games!

I would love to upgrade to a new MacBook Pro, and I may just do that. My current PowerBook (1.25 G4) is a wee bit on the slow side and when it comes to graphics processing (GIMP and Blender), it just isn't cut out for the job. Not to mention, I think the new MagSafe feature is worthy of the upgrade in and of itself. One thing that I would like to see fixed is the hinges in the screen. Mine broke, and I have talked to many other people who have had the same problem. If Apple can come up with a revolutionary new power supply, why can't they make a stronger hinge?

 

[sparks9]

To the OP: If everyone acted as you Apple would go bankrupt because noone would buy their products...

 

[sethypoo]

I can't wait until quantum computing reaches the consumer market. You may not be able to think of much to do, but I see picture quality realtime rendering ahead. Video games, video games, video games!

I can't wait for quantum computing either. I wonder if and when we get quantum chips (will they even be chips?) in a laptop/desktop, how will they be measured? Will clock speeds become a thing of the past?

I can only imagine how real videogames will look with that type of processor pushing the numbers.

 

[sethypoo]

Seth,

I definitely appreciate your well thought out post. At some level this entire thread comes down to "where are you in the upgrade cycle, and how much money do you have to dedicate to computer purchases?" If the computer you have does not currently fill your needs then upgrade. The pace of progress is ever quickening so there will always be something better around the corner. There is no *perfect* time to buy. There will never be an announcement from Steve saying "we've packed all the innovations we've got for the next 2 years into this computer so you might as well buy it because nothing better is coming out for a LONG time".

.....snip

Thank you so much for the clarification; I understand you're point of view now.

 

[sethypoo]

Not bothered about Blu-Ray because the war hasn't even begun between it and HD-DVD yet. Like other's I'll wait that one out - I got burnt with Philips DCC & Sony MiniDisc, and whilst Sony one the battle, neither won the war. MDisc no way near caught on as much as Sony expected, Tape was never replaced.

Whoa whoa whoa, a war has been raging between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD since at least 2004 (see this article).

Congrats on your new MacBook Pro purchase! I'm happy for you. However, some of us can't afford to drop $2200+ every year on a computer. I don't want to buy a new Apple laptop only to have another one with a new optical drive standard (regardless of type) in it come out a short while later. I want to buy after Apple puts in the latest standard that will last the longest amount of time.

 

[cnakeitaro]

MacBook Pro

I have to agree with some of the points made in this thread. Aside from the fact the MacBook Pro is a Rev A Powerbook, I'm sure it is still a fine machine. But there are still a few things I'm concerned with, I mean this is coming from a guy who still mainly uses a iBook G3. I've been looking to upgrade for a long time, and I was caught in the splendor of this new machine and its new features. I ordered one first day, and then cancelled as of yesterday after reading forums and such. Its surprising how much time a month and a half is when it comes to researching a product you just bought.

But, I must say with the 64-bit push Apple has been making with its G5 Processor line, I am a little uncomfortable with purchasing a new Powerbook with a 32-bit processor. I don't know if anyone feels that way. I mean in 6 months they could be releasing the new 64-bit Merom in all its glory, of course its not going to be a big increase in power, but I am trying to look long term with app support and performance in the next 4 years.

I really have no concern with the port losses, but I can't say I am absolutely thrilled with the downgrade of the Superdrive which was done because of the thin case and there are no 9mm 8x DL drives. I might just be babbling, in fact I probably am, but I am mostly just trying to hold out for the Merom processors, which will be a welcome upgrade from my iBook G3.

cnakeitaro

 

[dothog]

But, I must say with the 64-bit push Apple has been making with its G5 Processor line, I am a little uncomfortable with purchasing a new Powerbook with a 32-bit processor. I don't know if anyone feels that way. I mean in 6 months they could be releasing the new 64-bit Merom in all its glory, of course its not going to be a big increase in power, but I am trying to look long term with app support and performance in the next 4 years.

This is my concern also. Aside from the fact that my wife uses sci computing apps and would benefit from 64-bit right away, there's a lot to be said for looking 3 or 4 years down the road. Someone cited an Ars Technica article about 64-bit technology, and while the article was reserved about the rush to get 64-bit processors in boxes, they did note that with a 64-bit processor the potential is there to improve efficiency across many types of applications in ways that only number crunches can appreciate right now.

I'm really stuck with a tough decision. My better half is saying to hold out for 64-bits for the sake of compiling/running code at home, while the other half thinks that Apple may delay the 64-bit decision until Q1 2007, and then only put them in the high-end Power Macs. All I want is a simple 64-bit announcement, just to give me a feel for what Apple's gonna do.

 

[Koodauw]

The delay is an entirely new case design. The Macbook just released is just a PR stop gap.

Is this just speculation... or do you know something why dont?

 

[MacTruck]

The single most important reason not to buy a Rev A Macbook Pro is that it won't work in some fasion, trust me. Look at what happened. Steve said "The teams worked long nights and weekends to get this out". That is not a good sign for a perfectly working macbook. They rushed this think out so fast its scary. There has not been proper time to debug this sucker. I hate to say it but most apple Rev A products have some major fault. This is an all new design with all new hardware. Specs aside for all those waiting for bluray and stuff, I would say that waiting at least until they come out and some people report if they work or not would be a wise decision. Heck even at the macworld demo the machines were behaving a little weird and they chalked it up to the machines being protoypes, again, not a good sign.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Just something missing that was there before

The fly in the ointment:
The superdrive is 4x and does not support dual layer, a step back,
The fastest external port is a 480mbs USB 2.0, pray for a 34 express firewire card soon,
What happens to those of us who have to use some windows apps? Virtual PC; I thought you would be way ahead on this!
The screen resolution is less than the PB 15", but brighter.
So why did Apple not use the 2.0 ghz duo core as Acer did , and will the Seagate vertical memory hard drive (160gb) and the faster Duo core be available in an upcoming 17" McBook (Could also hold a bgger battery then as well.

 

[matperk]

The fly in the ointment:
The superdrive is 4x and does not support dual layer, a step back

Smaller form factor--no drive available in this size.

The fastest external port is a 480mbs USB 2.0, pray for a 34 express firewire card soon

480 is a theoretical maximum. Firewire is actually a better transfer standard, and 800 never really took off, and even for those who need it, you can buy an express card. I think one is available now

What happens to those of us who have to use some windows apps? Virtual PC; I thought you would be way ahead on this!

http://openosx.com/wintel/ -- self explanitory

The screen resolution is less than the PB 15", but brighter.

resolution is slighly lower, yes. but as you put it it is brighter, and still has the highest resolution of any 15.4" laptop I know of. Plus they had to make room for iSight.

So why did Apple not use the 2.0 ghz duo core as Acer did

Takes more power. Enough said.

and will the Seagate vertical memory hard drive (160gb)

I believe that was released yesterday, as in January 19th. Macworld? January 10th.

the faster Duo core be available in an upcoming 17" McBook (Could also hold a bgger battery then as well.

Right. You made my last point for me.